Independent tests of DVD +/- R Blank Media?

[JTEE]

Does anyone know of an independent study/report of DVD media?

I've searched the net with no luck. I have several Sony Players. I have tried Tiayo Yuden, Ritek, Ridata, Verbatim, Prodisc, Memorex, Phillips, and a few others, +R and -R, on Pioneer, Liteon, Phillips, and TSST (Dell) recorders, but I still get inconsistent results.

The best result I've found was a post by a guy from Australia who said he gets a computer magazine that rates Verbatim Datalife +R consistently the best. I'm going to try those again. I would like to see test data, like dropout rates, playback signal levels, flatness/physical stability, longevity, etc. compared between different brands.

Does anyone know where to find this data? :)

[Ghitulescu]

I'm surprised you couldn't find anything, the net is filled up with such info, the big problem is how to filter the noise out ;)

www.pcwelt.de in hardware tests - but the recorders they use are not always up to date.
c't magazine (www.heise.de) also had a long series of articles dealing with DVDR quality (including CAT measurements), not all articles are available online

Most other magazines usually test the DVDRs according to their writing speed (!!!) and if they can be read back in the recorders that were used to write them(!!!).

Also sites like cdrinfo, cdfreaks hold a lot of reviews of various recorders and their media ...

[JTEE]

Thanks for the reply, but I still didn't find any test data for DVD recordable MEDIA. Lots of HARDWARE and SOFTWARE reviews (mostly subjective) but no charts of MEDIA dropout rates, dye sensitivity, reflectivity of recorded discs, etc. Still searching. Looks like the manufacturers are keeping a tight lid on such data, and there seems to be NO independent test labs posting data. Supermedia Store used to have some data on some of the blanks they sell, but they don't anymore. All I can find is customer reviews, which are very subjective and non-technical. Maybe I should do my own tests, but it would take a lot of time, and I would have to come up with a testing set-up, and some objective criteria to use. Sounds like a MAJOR project, and I just don't have enough motivation.

[hanfrunz]

There's a big problem with testing media. You have to test combinations of media+recorder, because media A can be perfect with Recorder B, but put it in Recorder C and you get a lot of problems.

[Ghitulescu]

Thanks for the reply, but I still didn't find any test data for DVD recordable MEDIA. Lots of HARDWARE and SOFTWARE reviews (mostly subjective) but no charts of MEDIA dropout rates, dye sensitivity, reflectivity of recorded discs, etc. Still searching. Looks like the manufacturers are keeping a tight lid on such data, and there seems to be NO independent test labs posting data. Supermedia Store used to have some data on some of the blanks they sell, but they don't anymore. All I can find is customer reviews, which are very subjective and non-technical. Maybe I should do my own tests, but it would take a lot of time, and I would have to come up with a testing set-up, and some objective criteria to use. Sounds like a MAJOR project, and I just don't have enough motivation.
You want too much.

I do not care about eg reflectivity since this is the job of a reader. Reflectivity issues are imediately transformed into read errors (PI/PO etc.). You want to see the dye sensitivity, well there are recorders that allow you to vary the laser intensity (Plextor), just do some tests and pick up the best setting.

And if the recorders do not match the media and vice-versa is again a half-problem, just pick up the recorder and/or the media.

[JTEE]

hanfrunz: Right. So where can you find the data? ie: what is the most reliable/compatible recorder/media combination for my Sony players?
Ghitulescu: Thanks for the tip about Plexor recorders.

What I really want to know is "how can I burn DVDs that will play reliably and consistantly on my Sony players, and not become unplayable after a few years"?

FYI: By the way, Verbatim says their "Datalife" DVDs are the same as their standard ones, but have a "scratch resistant" coating.

[Ghitulescu]

Ok, it's again something impossible.
You cannot have any control over your Sony players, I mean other than it works, it doesn't work.
If you had the time to read the links I gave you, you'd have probably found that there are at least 4 software that allows you to check the quality of a DVD (Kprobe2, plextools and its freeware alternative, nero speed disk or something like that). They do not say that this DVDR will work in say a Sampo/Sony/Samsung etc. player, but if the PI/PO/TA/etc. are low enough, it will assure a good compatibility and a reserve for "bad things". If this DVDR has values close to the maximum allowed by the specs you can safely assume that's a problematic one.

[JTEE]

Ghitulescu: Thanks, good advise. I see your point, there is no simple answer.:thanks:

[Ghitulescu]

The answer is simple but few people can afford a CAT or a Datarius :) Even if you have access to such a machine, what you get is a list of parameters that detail how good the analysed CD/DVD/BD is compared to standards.

Reading is a second part of the story, not all drives are equally born, some are good, some are bad, it depends also on the disk type (dye, reflector, plastic transparency) ... Nobody can predict the reading qualities of a CD/DVD/BD, the manufacturers are however compelled to produce reading devices that can assure that CD/DVD/BD within specs can be read.

Let's take an example:
TY 8x burned at 4x with my Plextor (autostrategy on) yields PI of max 20, PO of max 2 (few spikes). Both well within the accepted ranges (280/4). They should work perfect.
Take a Platinum 16x burned at 4x with plextor (autostrategy on) that has 260/4 (lots of spikes). It should work since it's within specs, however some drives may refuse it.
2 years after:
TY has advanced to 30/2, Platinum to 450/8. While TY is still way below, and probably can be read with no problems, the drives will have a hard time reading the Platinum. A PC drive would probably spit errors, a DVD player would probably pad data or skip the frames.
-=-
Bottom line: if one tries to achive a minimum PI/PO/jitter/TA posible, and the DVD is at least decent made, the reading compatibility is assured. If the same guy simply use "Verify compilation" in Nero, he has no idea how good really his DVD is (it means that the DVD can be now read back, but he has no guarantee for tomorrow).

[setarip_old]

but he has no guarantee for tomorrowNor do any of us ;>}

[JTEE]

Ghitulescu: Sounds like you have done some fairly extensive research and/or experimenting. Also sounds like you have decided the TY media and Plextor recorder works best for you. Would this be a correct statement?

Finally, some real numbers. What software and/or hardware did you use to get these numbers, or did you just make them up for an example?

JT

PS: Or did you get the info from your Plextor drive? I've been looking at some. They all seem to come with the PlexUTILITIES software. Do you have a favorite model?

[Ghitulescu]

Ghitulescu: Sounds like you have done some fairly extensive research and/or experimenting. Also sounds like you have decided the TY media and Plextor recorder works best for you. Would this be a correct statement?

Finally, some real numbers. What software and/or hardware did you use to get these numbers, or did you just make them up for an example?

JT

PS: Or did you get the info from your Plextor drive? I've been looking at some. They all seem to come with the PlexUTILITIES software. Do you have a favorite model?

All [former] big brands (Plextor, LiteOn, Nec etc.) did their calibration on TY media (of course they tested also other media like MKM and so on). But that was before what I like to call "The Attack of the Chinese Clones", they had to cut the prices (and the costs) to remain the market.

The numbers are invented, except for the limits which are standardized. However I rarely see more than 20 PI and 2 PO are extremely rare on my TY disks. Now that some are 5 years old, it's the time for a new check ;)

[JTEE]

Ghitulescu: Hope I'm not buggeig you too much, is "I rarely see more than 20 PI and 2 PO" coming from your Plextor recorder/software? If so, what model do you have?

Thanks a lot:thanks:
JTEE

[Ghitulescu]

Ghitulescu: Hope I'm not buggeig you too much, is "I rarely see more than 20 PI and 2 PO" coming from your Plextor recorder/software? If so, what model do you have?

Thanks a lot:thanks:
JTEE

PX-716A (ATAPI)

It's connected through a "stupid" USB-ATAPI interface, it works suprisingly well as data transfer (you can access all its functions, you can't however update the firmware with it, Plextor techs are also against should you manage to do it) and the power supply (which is external) seems to be quite good, too - lots of bad burns come actually from the power source of the PC.

A good burn needs not only a good burner and a good media, but also a very stable power supply. That was long time ago the lost secret of burning CDRs (avoiding vibrations was the second one, like using a solid enclosure), and will continue to affect also the BDR and its successor and its successor and so on ...
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Another thing, I haven't decided that Plextor/TY works the best, I have Imations 4x perfectly burned with a NEC1300 (I could pack 4.5GB onto them instead of the usual 4.37), I have Octrons (Riteks made for LIDL, B-Grade as A-grade are sold as Maxells) perfectly burned with LG5163 and so on. Perfectly means PI under 50, this is not a fabricated value, it's my personal grading system.
Secondly, the values are approximative since assessing the quality is done with a drive, and this drive has its own characteristics. Another drive will give you other values. You can't directly compare the readings of a LiteOn with KProbe2 with those of PlexTools using a Plextor or to those of a NEC used with CDspeed - first, you can't use Kprobe2 on anything other than Liteons and clones, the same goes for plextools; secondly the readings of the drives are different. The only way of having a standardized info is to use an industry agreated device, like the CAT or the Datarius.