MakeMKV - BD+

[setarip_old]

Perhaps the end of the monopoly is finally near? The following makes it sound like BD+ support is "just around the corner":


Posted by "Mike Chen" at the MakeMKV forum:Re: ETA on BD+ Support?
by mike admin » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:40 am

Ok, it is much closer to completion now. Please wait.


Of course, seeing is believing ;>}

I, for one, will be delighted if and when this comes true ;>}

[Wombler]

Fengtao and Ting broke BD+ a few weeks ago and are due to release BD+ support for DVDFab anytime soon.

Obfuscating their code is what is holding things up ATM.


Wombler

[Fahzuu]

Fengtao and Ting broke BD+ a few weeks ago and are due to release BD+ support for DVDFab anytime soon.

Obfuscating their code is what is holding things up ATM.



Wow, so it takes them longer to obfuscate their code than it took SlySoft to crack BD+

They really must be interested in hiding the secrets of BD+ (...most of which were publicly unraveled in this forum quite extensively not long ago).

:)

[kreet]

does the stuff done here not work (libbluray/debugger)?

[SamuriHL]

Just so I'm fully clear on this, DVDFab has BD+ completely broken to the point where it decrypts ALL current discs, but, isn't releasing it because they are spending time encrypting their code from hackers? What exactly is meant by "broke BD+", anyway? AFAIK it's constantly evolving which is why Slysoft is constantly updating when new titles come out. If BD+ is actually broken by DVDFab, does this mean that it'll work with new discs when they come out without the need to wait for updates? I'm genuinely curious as to what is being stated here and what claims are being made. Is there an ETA when this new version of DVDFab will be released that handles BD+? Obsfucation isn't exactly difficult if one buys into something like Thermida. It's what some of the players are using for their own protection. If the code is complete, why hold up the release for that? Aren't there paying customers who have a time limited license that are waiting for this functionality? Sorry for all the questions. Like I said, I'm quite curious as to where things stand with DVDFab now. Thanks!!

[setarip_old]

@SamuriHL

Hi!there an ETA when this new version of DVDFab will be released that handles BD+?As I said regarding the "coming soon" ability of "MakeMKV" to process BD+ discs, I'll believe it when I see it...

BTW - It appears that DVD95Copy's development of similar software has "fallen off the edge of the Earth".

[SamuriHL]

I think BD+ is more difficult to deal with than a lot of people realize. I'm skeptical of anyone that says they've "broken" it as it's a moving target from what I can see. Not even stand alone players are immune, as was evidenced by 12 Rounds and Street Fighter Chun Li Legend. Anyone who wants to support BD+ should understand that it's not going to be a "well, I'm done with that" kind of effort. BD+ is to BD's as structural protection is to DVD's I think. I wish them luck, but, it's no easy task. At present, Slysoft is the only one I know of that reliably handles BD+. That could change once one of these products gets updated. We shall see.

[Revgen]

@SamuriHL

If you want to know more about DVDFab got to http://club.cdfreaks.com/f116/

The DVDFab guys post at that forum.

[SamuriHL]

No, I know. I'm a long time CDF user, believe me. But, I haven't seen a lot mentioned there about BD+ support and when it might actually be released, either. I'm a bit fuzzy on the details of what to expect when it is released. Will it support everything initially including new titles? Basically I'm just looking for more info. I've been monitoring CDF, too.

[Wombler]

Just so I'm fully clear on this, DVDFab has BD+ completely broken to the point where it decrypts ALL current discs, but, isn't releasing it because they are spending time encrypting their code from hackers? What exactly is meant by "broke BD+", anyway? AFAIK it's constantly evolving which is why Slysoft is constantly updating when new titles come out. If BD+ is actually broken by DVDFab, does this mean that it'll work with new discs when they come out without the need to wait for updates? I'm genuinely curious as to what is being stated here and what claims are being made. Is there an ETA when this new version of DVDFab will be released that handles BD+? Obsfucation isn't exactly difficult if one buys into something like Thermida. It's what some of the players are using for their own protection. If the code is complete, why hold up the release for that? Aren't there paying customers who have a time limited license that are waiting for this functionality? Sorry for all the questions. Like I said, I'm quite curious as to where things stand with DVDFab now. Thanks!!

I was basically paraphrasing what Fengtao said some weeks ago.

http://club.cdfreaks.com/f116/bd-encryption-protection-278195/#post2299007

So the info came directly from him.

I think I've also seen something mentioned that they were happy they could update it as required but I couldn't find that as I wasn't sure what to search under.


Wombler

[SamuriHL]

Well, I'll be curious to see how it works when it's released. I myself won't be buying it as I'm happy with my current solution but I'd like to see how well it works for the paying customers and how often it needs to be updated. Fox and anyone else thinking about using BD+ should just stop. It causes more harm than good, IMO.

[Wombler]

Well we'll see how things go.

I haven't moved to blu-ray yet so it's a bit academic from my perspective.

Did strike me as kind of ironic though that they wanted to protect how they broke the protection. :)


Wombler

[SamuriHL]

Yea, that's kind of funny. Protect it from who, exactly? Anyway, we'll see what happens when it's released. Should be interesting.

[Fiffy]

Yea, that's kind of funny. Protect it from who, exactly? Well, AnyDVD does it too. Besides obviously protecting their work from reverse engineering by potential competitors, it might also be useful to make it difficult for the BD+ LLC to see how they circumvent the protection and which cryptographic keys they are using, in order to make it harder for them to come up with countermeasures or revoke the keys. It's the classic cat and mouse game. :)

As far as "cracking" BD+, it's theoretically possible to circumvent BD+ to a similar extent as AACS has been circumvented (but not fully compromised). By creating a perfect emulation of the BD+ runtime environment of a legit player, in theory all future discs would run. But even if you manage to come that far, you still may need to acquire new keys from time to time when old ones have been revoked (AFAIK BD+ has renewable cryptographic keys of its own).

[SamuriHL]

Yea, I suppose if they're emulating a specific player that would work. Maybe. :) It'll definitely be interesting to see how this plays out when it's released. It's been rumored that Paramount wants to adopt BD+ so if more studios start using it, it'll just become more of a PITA for us end users in the end. Good times.

[Gokumon]

Wow, so it takes them longer to obfuscate their code than it took SlySoft to crack BD+

They really must be interested in hiding the secrets of BD+ (...most of which were publicly unraveled in this forum quite extensively not long ago).

:)

It's really not that amazing considering that SlySoft had to work completely from scratch while they are most likely building off the work done by others. Obviously the first one to do anything are usually going to take longer than people who come after them and do the same thing.

[Mike Chen]

Fengtao and Ting broke BD+ a few weeks ago and are due to release BD+ support for DVDFab anytime soon.

Obfuscating their code is what is holding things up ATM.


Wombler

I only hope that they "broke" it not in the way it was "broken" before by Sly and on this forum. BD+ is extremely easy to "break" for the first time, especially if you do not understand BD+ revocation story. All "breaks" so far only led to more G0 and G4 keys being revoked and G7 and G8 keys introduced into players along with custom content code filled with RESV3 and other crap. If their break is to emulate some player other than powerdvd then it will do a lot of harm in a long term. And if their hack would lead to revocation of known but unpublished G4 and G0 keys, a lot of people would be really pissed off. BD+ is a very delicate thing.

[Fahzuu]

BD+ is extremely easy to "break" for the first time, especially if you do not understand BD+ revocation story.

Having followed the BD+ development in this forum here, I really wouldn't call it "extremely easy". There were a humongous amount of tricky details to be reversed and put into action. And still the stuff doesn't work right.
It's easy to undermine other's work now after you can read all about it (in other words: it is rather easy to start off with what has already been published). You have the advantage of getting an incredible head-start by starting off with what they left behind.
I find it a bit shabby to devaluate that now, especially seeing that you don't have any BD+ support of your own yet, despite that advantage.

All "breaks" so far only led to more G0 and G4 keys being revoked and G7 and G8 keys introduced into players

I honestly don't see much difference to the AACS situation here...

If their break is to emulate some player other than powerdvd then it will do a lot of harm in a long term. And if their hack would lead to revocation of known but unpublished G4 and G0 keys, a lot of people would be really pissed off. BD+ is a very delicate thing.

That may be true. Given that the public BD+ approach here is based on PowerDVD. SlySoft's probably is as well.
What "lot of people" are you referring to though?
Those had to be people who have a BD+ solution of their own. Who would that be other than SlySoft?

[HWK]

Also Slysoft dealt with BD+ in approx 1 year time.

Blu-ray supported added in version 6.1.3.0 came out on
2007 03 05

Bd+ supported was added in version 6.4.0.0 came out on
2008 03 19

Taken directly from Anydvd log.(Official one were used only)

Bottom Line BD+ is harder what many thinks.

[kreet]

seems to me that a large part of the work has already been done here (libbluray and bdvmdbg). It doesnt support newer discs because the people who were working on it seem to have lost interest. If noone else is interested in working on improving the current code then maybe i will :P

As for the difficulty: yes there are some difficult things to implement in BD+ - its a very complex system all in all, but totally doable.

SlySoft and DvdFab spend a lot of effort building in obfuscation and not just using commercial packers. their whole bussiness is based on protecting their hacks from the public. i really think its time there was a viable opensource/free/linux alternative.

[setarip_old]

@kreet

Hi!If noone else is interested in working on improving the current code then maybe i will :PI'm sure your efforts would be appreciated ;>}

[kreet]

@kreet

Hi!I'm sure your efforts would be appreciated ;>}
ill start investigating. i have experience with reversing software. if anyone else wants to join me, just pm :D

[Revgen]

^One place to look at is this page. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=149163

It has the already known MKB's plus other material. It comes from the MakeMKV program. I believe the MakeMKV author said it uses the PDVD processing key.

[dirio49]

seems to me that a large part of the work has already been done here (libbluray and bdvmdbg). It doesnt support newer discs because the people who were working on it seem to have lost interest. If noone else is interested in working on improving the current code then maybe i will :P

As for the difficulty: yes there are some difficult things to implement in BD+ - its a very complex system all in all, but totally doable.

SlySoft and DvdFab spend a lot of effort building in obfuscation and not just using commercial packers. their whole bussiness is based on protecting their hacks from the public. i really think its time there was a viable opensource/free/linux alternative.



well here is the thread
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1292329#post1292329

it has been inactive for 2-3 months now. :(

[kreet]

well here is the thread
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1292329#post1292329

it has been inactive for 2-3 months now. :(

thanks. that thread is huge :eek: Ive read about half way thru and taken a look at the code at assembla. Those guys did some really great work :thanks:

I think i understand most of the system. i just dont know where it breaks down. ill start messing with it over the weekend.