2 Qs about edit a menu

[dashali]

I want to edit a subtitle menu (Still menu) in order to adding a new button with highlight same as original's.
I extracted background .bmp and edited it,
then extracted sub-picture [once with DVDSubEdit & once with SubRip] and edited it, finally I create new menu with DVD-lab Pro.
Then I copyed color of PGC & buttons from original menu to new menu with PgcEdit.
But I face with 2 problem:

1) about sub-picture: color of buttons in selected & highlighted mode isn't same as original's.
I try this with the sub-picture that extracted by DVDSubEdit
and also with the sub-picture that extracted by SubRip
and also with a manual sub-picture
[->background:white,objects:blue ;
background:green,objects:red ;
background:black,objects:white ;
background:white,objects:red ;
background:white,objects:black]
but it didn't correct.
How I can know the original sub-picture had been what background & objects color? or How I can fix this problem?


2) This menu has 2 button groups. How I can edit group 2?
or How I can a menu with 2 button groups?

[r0lZ]

About the method: Instead of using DVD-Lab pro to create a new menu, I would have modified the menu in place. IMO, it is easier to replace the background image in the original menu with VobBlanker's Still function (see this animated guide (http://download.videohelp.com/jsoto/guides/VobBlanker/replace_menu_2.rar)), then export the two highlight BMPs (one per group) with DVDSubEdit, edit them and and re-import them also with DVDSubEdit. Finally, create the new button with PgcEdit. Since your original menu has two groups, you would have had two groups also in the edited menu. And the same colors if you use the same color scheme number than the other buttons for the new button.
Don't forget to change the adjacent button links (up, left, right, down links) of the buttons so that each button can be selected with the remote. DVD-Lab creates the links automatically, but you have to define them manually when you create the new button in PgcEdit. Use the cursor keys (in the Menu Editor or in the Menu Viewer window) to test.

If you want to continue with the DVD-Lab method, you will need to modify your DVD-Lab project. See point 2 below. Of course, you should apply point 2 before point 1.

1) The color problem: The colors exported by DVDSubEdit are fake colors. They are not directly related to the colors you see in the real menu, especially if you re-author your menu with DVD-Lab, as it creates new colors anyway.
The color problem can come from the PGC CLUT. Copy the original color palette with PgcEdit's PGC Editor, and paste it in your new menu PGC.
It can also come from the color schemes of the menu. Export the color scheme of the original menu with PgcEdit. (Use the Menu Editor menus.) Import it in your new menu. Be sure to select the same color scheme number than in the original menu for all buttons and in the two groups.
Note that I'm not sure DVD-Lab uses the same color indexes than in the original menu. If it's not the case, you will have to play with the color scheme in PgcEdit (change the colors and opacity values.)

2) You should have created a 16:9 menu in DVD-Lab. Change the Project Properties, and select 16:9 menu, with the correct display mode for the 4:3 TV (letterbox or pan&scan), then adjust the position of the background and buttons, and re-export your menu. In PgcEdit, be sure to edit the two groups when you create the new button and when you modify the adjacent button links.

[dashali]

Very good guide, Dear r0lZ
I solved problem1 and in-place editing is very easy.
But I have some question about menus with 2 group buttons:

1) background bmp in both groups is similar, but when I export it, I have background in group 1; I need it in group 2 to edit sub-pic 2 correctly.
2) What player (in PC) can display group 2 ? -- I need this for viewing background in group 2 (in order to get bmp with PrtScr) and for test of edited menu in group 2 --
3) Suppose I want to create a new menu with 2 groups (no editing), I can create 2 menus as 2 groups (16:9 menu and pan&scan), but how I can merge these in a menu with 2 groups?

[r0lZ]

There is only one background image for the two display modes, as the same video stream is used anyway. When viewed on a 16:9 TV, the player passes the entire image, and the TV displays it full screen. When played on a 4:3 TV, the player has to adapt the image to make if compatible with the old 4:3 format. If the display mode is pan&scan, it enlarge the image, and sends only the central part of the image to the TV. In letterbox mode, it adds horizontal black borders, and scales the image down. So, you have to edit only one background image per menu. (The background exported by programs such as PgcEdit is always the content of the video stream, not resized and without black borders. However, when you look at the background in a player, you see it resized according to the current display mode and the resolution and aspect ratio of your PC screen. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to capture the screen, as the image will not have the correct dimension.)

That's the theory for the background. But for the buttons, things are different. As the highlights are only made of 3 colors (plus 1 transparent color), there is not enough colors to do a good anti-aliasing when the image is enlarged or shrunk. Therefore, the subpic stream is duplicated, and a different stream is used for each specific display mode, so that the button highlights are on the exact position. In other words, the button highlight is drawn over the resized background by the player but the highlight itself is never resized or moved. It is the responsibility of the authoring program to provide enough highlights, already of the correct size and position, for each display modes. It's why there are several button groups. So, if you want to add a button in a 16:9 menu, you have to edit 2 (or 3) subpic streams: one for the 16:9, and one for the letterbox or pan&scan mode (or both if both modes are allowed.) Similarly, the position and size of the rectangle defining the button "hot area" is duplicated. It's why there are up to 3 groups in the menu editor of PgcEdit. (The groups are used mainly because it is necessary to have a different set of button coordinates for the different display modes, but you can also change the other button parameters in each group independently. For example, the button command can be different in group 1 and 2. Take care, as it's normally not what you want!)

Unfortunately, you cannot define two different menus for the two display modes, and then merge them together. As the background is the same for the two groups, you have to define the buttons of the two groups at the same time. As I said above, you can do that easily with DVD-Lab pro: just be sure to set the display modes of the menu (in the project properties) to 16:9 letterboxed or 16:9 pan&scan. (You have to select the same mode than your original DVD.) Draw the buttons over the background shown by DVD-Lab, and it will automatically create the two groups for you, when the DVD is exported. (BTW, as far as I know, with DVD-Lab Pro, it is not possible to define a menu with the 3 groups, and therefore you have to chose letterbox or pan&scan, but you cannot allow both modes.)

The software players can usually display the DVDs in only one mode. They assume that your screen is a 16:9 screen, even if it's not the case. Therefore, it is impossible to check if the buttons are correctly defined for the letterbox or pan&scan mode. That's a pity, as you have to burn a RW to test on a standalone player.
In trace mode, PgcEdit shows you the menu in the menu viewer in the correct mode, according to your virtual player configuration, but since it is not a real player, it cannot show you the highlights, and it displays only still frames, so you cannot use it to check an animated menu. However, you can check some things such as the adjacent button links (with the cursor keys), the button commands, etc...

[dashali]

Very Thx for This Big & Nice Guide!
I know that background bmp in both groups is similar, but I want to edit group 2 sub-pic in order to add a new object (button); so I need background bmp [720*576] in mode of group2 -pan&scan-
If I haven't this, I can't edit group 2 sub-pic correctly!
What your idea for editing highlight of group 2 ?

[r0lZ]

Ah, I see. You want to superpose the highlight BMP over a background of the correct format to see where you have to put the highlights. Right?

AFAIK, there is nothing you can do to dump the background image already scaled to the right dimensions for the highlights. But you can scale it yourself in a good paint program. First, dump the original background image with a program that doesn't scale it, such as the PgcEdit preview or VobBlanker.


For a 4:3 menu, you don't have to change anything. Just use the original BMP as the guide. (If the image width is only 704 or 360, see the beginning of the explanation for PAL or NTSC 4:3 pan&scan below.)

For a 16:9 menu, you need also the original unmodified background image to create the highlights of the menu shown on a 16:9 TV (usually group 1.) Same remark if the width is only 704 or 360.

PAL 4:3 letterboxed: Do not change the width.
For the height, scale the image down to 432 pixels (75%), and add a black border on the top and bottom. The height of each black border should be 72 pixels, so that the total height of the image is again 576 pixels.
Now, your image should approximately appear normal on a PC screen with square pixels. Use it as a guide to place your highlights.

NTSC 4:3 letterboxed: Same as above, but scale your image height down to 360 pixels (also 75%) and add black borders of 60 pixels each. The total height should be 480 pixels.

PAL or NTSC 4:3 pan&scan: Do not change the height.
Be sure to use an image width of 720 pixels. If it's 104, add two tiny black vertical borders of 8 pixels so that the total width is 720 pixels. It it's an half-resolution video (width = 352), scale if to 720 pixels (200%).
Then, scale the width of your image to 960 pixels (133.33%), and crop the left and right borders (120 pixels each) so that your image has again a width of 720 pixels.
Now, your image should approximately appear normal on a PC screen with square pixels. Use it as a guide to place your highlights.


Note that the image of a 16:9 menu appears stretched on a PC screen. That's because the pixel aspect ratio of the anamorphic widescreen image is not 1:1, and your PC screen has probably a pixel aspect ratio near 1:1. Take care, as if you add for example a square in your button highlight, it will appear as a rectangle when displayed on the TV. It is theoretically possible to scale the background and highlight images to display them correctly on the PC monitor, and then rescale the highlight image to its original dimension when you have finished the work, but most programs will introduce antialiasing artifacts during the scale operations, and you will have a final image with more than 4 colors, not suitable for DVDSubEdit, so I don't recommend to do it.

Tech note: The real image stored in the subpic stream cannot be as big as the video frame, and can be very small. (As long as the highlights of all buttons are included in the image, it can be cropped, and the program can specify the X and Y offsets to place it at the right position.) The offsets CANNOT be 0. I don't remember the offset values, but I know that there is a tiny border around the image where it is impossible to define a button highlight. Some authoring programs may therefore require that you crop the image to accept it, but it's not the case of DVDSubEdit, as it crops it anyway to the minimal dimensions. (I've asked that "feature" to Jeanl so that it is possible to do what you want easily: place the highlights exactly on the position they should occupy over the background.)

[dashali]

Very Good!
I could solve Problem 2, finally, with your perfect guides.
I resized and cropped original background BMP and I edited sub-picture 2 carefully; then burnt files [*.IFO, *.BUP & VTS_*_0.VOB] in a CD-RW as Mini-DVD and tested menu with a standalone player in 16:9 mode and also 4:3 pan&scan mode. It was same as what I want. Very Thx r0lZ!

I'm trying to find a software (a PC player) for playing a dvd in pan&scan or letterboxed mode [e.g. for testing group 2 of menus]. If I find it, I will inform you.

[r0lZ]

Yes, if you can find a player that can be configured to support a 4:3 or 16:9 display, please let us know.

Have a look at The KMPlayer (http://www.kmplayer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4094) (not the Softonic player (http://kmplayer.en.softonic.com/) of the same name). It can display the video in a wide variety of aspect ratios, but I'm not sure it uses the DVD Standard to display the menus in letterboxed mode. (I use it, but honestly I have never tried to configure it.) Anyway, I like it also because the user can use the cursor keys to select the menu buttons, and it's handy to check the adjacent button links in real circumstances. It is also highly customizable, and it uses its own codecs and filters, so it is not dependent of the other DirectX players you have installed on your system. It is still in beta phase, but afaik it has less bugs than the well known commercial players such as PowerDVD and WinDVD. And it is free! :-)

[dashali]

OK!
When I edit a DVD, I test it with each "The KMPlayer", "PowerDVD" and "WinDVD".
The KMPlayer dosen't support 4:3 P&S or L-Box DVD standard same as a standalone player; it just uses extending & cropping mode to change dimension. But it's useful feature that allow users to change dimension with mouse. The KMPlayer supports many video formats and, as you said above, it is handy.
Also about WinDVD, it is best PC player that support almost all standards of DVD structure than The KMPlayer & PowerDVD and it has a hi-quality than others.

In my experiences, I find out that in 90% of cases, the free software are better than commercial's. In working with DVD-movies there are several samples: PgcEdit, DVDShrink, DVD Decrypter, DVDSubEdit, VobSub, Subtitle Workshop, SubtitleCreator, SubRip, MenuEdit, IfoEdit, MuxMan_Free, jsoto's softs such as VobBlanker & PgcDemux and so on.

[r0lZ]

Also about WinDVD, it is best PC player that support almost all standards of DVD structure than The KMPlayer & PowerDVD and it has a hi-quality than others.Do you mean that it can display the menus in 4:3 lb or p&s?

Thanks for your appreciation about the free programs. :)