Use Windows 7 RC in new system or wait for release in stores

[kempodragon]

I am currently planning to build a completely new system and am wondering should I use the Windows 7 beta or wait for it to be released in October. This will be a 64 bit system, so I have to get a new OS, since all my previous Windows installations have been 32 bits. Everything I've seen written in the forum says that Windows 7 is stable enough to be used, but I don't know how the license works with a beta version. I really would like to build this system soon, since working on a laptop full time gets to be tedious. (My old rig finally gave up several months ago and I've had to wait until now to get the money up). Your advice will be greatly appreciated.

[Sharktooth]

the win7 beta/RC will expire soon.
so better wait for official launch.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

According to the M$ web-site:
The [Windows 7] RC will expire on June 1, 2010. Starting on March 1, 2010, your PC will begin shutting down every two hours.

IMO this is long enough to test Windows 7 thoroughly before you decide to buy or not ;)

If WindowsXP x64-Edition is still available in stores, this would be an alternative you should consider.
Works perfectly fine for me for a long time now...

[The_Keymaker]

Will there be any 32bit versions of If Windows 7?

[St Devious]

Will there be any 32bit versions of If Windows 7?

yes, there is a 32-bit RC too

[laserfan]

If WindowsXP x64-Edition is still available in stores, this would be an alternative you should consider.I can't agree that investing in XP x64 edition would be a smart choice at this time. It doesn't work with all programs and is clearly an "orphan" among MS offerings.

I'm not at all sure what the cheapest route might be to get to Win7 in October, but I guess my inclination would be to install Win7 RC now, and deal with an official version later, unless you have a legal OS you could put on it (and get activated with MS) which would allow you to get a lower upgrade price for Win7 later.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I can't agree that investing in XP x64 edition would be a smart choice at this time. It doesn't work with all programs and is clearly an "orphan" among MS offerings.

I've yet to encounter a program or game that doesn't work. Driver support also is no problem at all, except for archaic/exotic hardware maybe.

And XP 64-Bit is certainly MUCH more lightweight than Vista/Win7 ;)

I'm not yet sure whether I will "upgrade" from Windows XP 64-Bit to Windows 7, even if I can get a license for free (MSDN-AA).

[turbojet]

Some video related apps that don't work on XP x64:

Arcsoft TMT
Corel WinDVD
Cyberlink PowerDVD 7/8/9

So in other words you can't play full blu-ray.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

So in other words you can't play full blu-ray.

According to their web-site AnyDVD works on XP x64 ;)

[turbojet]

It does, but it's not a player.

Full bluray meaning menus, extras, etc.

[stax76]

I would install the thing rather today than tomorrow but better 32bit to avoid compatibility headaches and emulation/duplication bloat, I've doubts 64bit is practical right now. It's the human nature (man especially) thinking more is better but it's not always true.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

x264 64-Bit is faster. And the x64 editions allow to address 4 GB of RAM (or even more), while the 32-Bit editions are limited to ~3 GB of RAM.

These are two good reasons to go 64-Bit today. The latter reasons is even more important with operating systems like Vista/Win7, because they need a lot of RAM to run smoothly.

Also compatibility problems are pretty much non-existing, as 64-Bit Windows can still run 32-Bit apps just fine. Actually the CPU will run in 32-Bit mode for such apps...

[stax76]

I guess there are many software and hardware compatibility issues, my own applications had numerous because I don't test them on platforms other than my development platform which is Win7 32bit. I guess it depends if you are more concerned about compatibility or performence. If you know good resources telling about pros and cons I would be glad to know.

[Blue_MiSfit]

I've had literally no problems with driver support or unstable behavior / application incompatibilities on Windows 7 x64.

All the encoding tools work perfectly fine, all my ram gets wired up when encoding video (cache etc), and it's overall a nice upgrade from Vista x64 which I used happily for over a year.

Try the RC1. It's free for god's sakes!

~MiSfit

[stax76]

x264 64-Bit is faster.

I was reading faster for optimized 64bit apps and most applications are still 32bit and run slower. Doesn't AviSynth require 32bit and doesn't run AviSynth with native 32bit faster than with WOW6432?

And the x64 editions allow to address 4 GB of RAM

64bit might be able to use the full 4 GB but it also needs more memory/disk space or resources generally so it's not a win unless you have more than 4 GB which only helps for certain professional applications.

The latter reasons is even more important with operating systems like Vista/Win7, because they need a lot of RAM to run smoothly.

My Win 7 32bit Aero enabled runs smooth with 2 GB using many application in parallel that use much memory like Firefox or multiple Visual Studio instances.

Regarding hardware, my ATI 2400 didn't work right on Vista 64bit, at one point I might try Win 7 64bit but older cards have worse 64bit drivers.

The general emulation/virtualization/duplication etc. going on to support 32bit apps on 64bit systems is far from being ideal.

I guess 64bit will gain popularity and thus compatibility rapidly, still I'll probably stay with 32bit for a couple of years like I stayed with XP until a month ago skipping Vista entirely.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I was reading faster for optimized 64bit apps and most applications are still 32bit and run slower. Doesn't AviSynth require 32bit and doesn't run AviSynth with native 32bit faster than with WOW6432?

First: A 64-Bit build of x264 is faster than a 32-Bit build (the speed-up is ~10%). That's a fact.
And as far as I know, the main reason for that is the increased number of available CPU registers in x64 mode.

Second: 32-Bit applications can run on a 64-Bit OS just fine. The CPU will switch to "Compatibility Mode" for such applications.
WOW64 is not an emulator or something! It simply provides a Win32-compatible API to all the 32-Bit processes.
Still these 32-Bit applications run directly on the CPU, just like they would on a "native" 32-Bit OS.
From the applications perspective the "Compatibility Mode" of AMD64 is identical to the "Protected Mode" of an old x86 processors.
In fact, if you install a 32-Bit OS on a modern 64-Bit capable system, the CPU will be running in "Compatibility Mode" all the time.
There is no reason for 32-Bit applications to run any slower on a 64-Bit OS. They won't run any faster either, of course!

Third: It is possible to use 64-Bit x264 with 32-Bit Avisynth.
It's is done by using avs2yuv.exe (which will run as a 32-Bit process) and piping the data into the 64-Bit x264 process.
Anyway, 64-Bit Avisynth is available for a long time now. So you can use a complete 64-Bit chain, if you want.
Some of the more exotic Plugins may not be available for 64-Bit Avisynth yet, though...

64bit might be able to use the full 4 GB but it also needs more memory/disk space or resources generally so it's not a win unless you have more than 4 GB which only helps for certain professional applications.

Any reference for that? Vista/Win7 generally require more RAM and Diskspace, indeed. But that's not due to 64-Bit, it's due to Aero and all the other bling-bling ;)

And don't forget: With the x64-Edition of Windows XP you can have a lightweight 64-Bit Windows operating system...

[laserfan]

And don't forget: With the x64-Edition of Windows XP you can have a lightweight 64-Bit Windows operating system...But again, in the marketplace it's the bastard child (some software developers don't give a rip about XP x64). Glad that everything works for you, the rest of us have not been so lucky.

The only 64-bit horse to ride at this point in time is Vista64, or Win7.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Software developers don't need to care about WindowsXP x64-Edition, because it's fully backward-compatible to 32-Bit Windows.
The application won't even notice that it's running on 64-Bit Windows, unless it explicitly checks for Win64 (using one of the API calls that have been added in Win64).
For example I developed a whole lot of applications using good old Delphi 7.0 and I didn't need to modify one single line of code to get them running on WindowsXP x64-Edition.
So it's the developers of device drivers who need to take care about WindowsXP x64-Edition. And all the major hardware vendors actually provide good support!

Applications that may fail on WindowsXP x64-Edition are applications that install their own device drivers to interact with the system on the lowest level.
Most likely this is because such application implement a "copy protection" scheme they want to hide from the OS and the user. That's also the reason why the BluRay players don't work :rolleyes:
Of course there are applications that have a legitimate reason to install their own drivers, such as VirtualBox. And VirtualBox runs perfectly fine here.

Anyway, since everybody can get the 64-Bit Edition of Windows 7 RC-1 for free (and test it until May 2010), I'd still recommend to give Windows 7 a try. Doesn't cost you anything.
I'm running Windows 7 x64 myself. That's inside VirtualBox, of course ;)

[saint-francis]

Some video related apps that don't work on XP x64:

Arcsoft TMT
Corel WinDVD
Cyberlink PowerDVD 7/8/9

So in other words you can't play full blu-ray.

Do they work on Vista/win 7 x64? I have Arcsoft installed but I have never used it for anything accept DTS/eac3to decoding. It certainly works fine there.

[kempodragon]

Thanks for the info. I'm building a 64 bit system to "future proof" it. This rig will have all new components, nothing from my old system is going into it. Even my old hard drives are being put into external enclosures and used as backups. My old rig lasted over seven years, and I want this one to last as long. I avoided going Vista 64 because Vista gave me too many headaches compared to XP. I only have enough money budgeted to buy one OS and I always do a full install, no upgrades from another OS. Installing the RC first and then buying Win7 when it ships was what I'd been thinking of in the first place, but I was leery of installing something that would turn my main rig into a test bed for bugs. Still, it looks like I'll be downloading the iso and installing it after all.

[turbojet]

Do they work on Vista/win 7 x64? I have Arcsoft installed but I have never used it for anything accept DTS/eac3to decoding. It certainly works fine there.

Yup they all work fine on vista/7 x64.

[Shinigami-Sama]

I've had zero issues with my win7 x64....
I've had more problems with my XP laptop that I've had with win7 since I installed it

as for software support I've had many programs that needed me to fiddle with them to get them to work in XP, they work right out of the box on Win7
the only real annoying thing was when UAC was on it didn't let me drag and drop files into my FTP software because it wanted to run in Admin mode..

[Konrad Klar]

Friend of mine uses WindowsXP x64. He searches for UDF writer without succcess. InCD from Nero package does not work on x64. Anyone knows InCD counterpart for XP x64?
Thanks in advance.

[Shinigami-Sama]

Friend of mine uses WindowsXP x64. He searches for UDF writer without succcess. InCD from Nero package does not work on x64. Anyone knows InCD counterpart for XP x64?
Thanks in advance.

its called a flashdrive

inCD never actually worked right...

[LoRd_MuldeR]

If you used ImgBurn (http://www.imgburn.com/) once, you'll never want to go back to something as bloated as Nero for burning ;)

Their AAC commandline encoder is quite good though...

[St Devious]

if you used imgburn (http://www.imgburn.com/) once, you'll never want to go back to something as bloated as nero for burning ;)

their aac commandline encoder is quite good though...

+1

+1

[Shakey_Jake33]

I used XP 64-bit for a year until May and I never encountered a single program that could not be run (aside from applications that use 16-bit installers, which don't run on 64-bit operating systems full stop). The negativity surrounding XP 64-bit is unjustified, it's every bit as good as XP 32-bit these days - just with the bonuses that a 64-bit operating system provides.

That said, I've not turned back since installing Windows 7 64-bit RC (speaking as a person who gave Vista over a year of a chance, never liking it). If you intend to install the final Windows 7 either way, there's no harm in installing the RC now. This would also be cheaper, because a Windows 7 RC 'licence' is free (whereas you'd have to pay for XP 64-bit).

[Konrad Klar]

Thanks.
He (my friend) uses ImgBurn but searches for program that would allow him to format CD/DVD+-RW in UDF and use them as removable R/W disks (under XP x64).

P.S.
I know: Vista has built-in such feature, but he is reluctant to installing of Vista (his computer has only 1,5GB RAM).

[LoRd_MuldeR]

(aside from applications that use 16-bit installers, which don't run on 64-bit operating systems full stop).

Yes, but 16-Bit applications were already "exotic" at the time when good old Windows XP came out. And they wouldn't work on 64-Bit Vista/Win7 either ;)

The negativity surrounding XP 64-bit is unjustified, it's every bit as good as XP 32-bit these days - just with the bonuses that a 64-bit operating system provides.

Exactly my point!

If you intend to install the final Windows 7 either way, there's no harm in installing the RC now. This would also be cheaper, because a Windows 7 RC 'licence' is free (whereas you'd have to pay for XP 64-bit).

Just make sure you install Windows 7 RC on a separate system partition, so you can format that partition and install the Win7 "Final" later without trouble :)

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I know: Vista has built-in such feature, but he is reluctant to installing of Vista (his computer has only 1,5GB RAM).

I highly recommend getting a USB Stick or a portable USB Hard-drive instead of messing with antiquated RW-Media.

You can get a 4 GB Stick (roughly the capacity of a DVD-RW media) for ~10-15€, a 8 GB Stick for ~20€ or a 500 GB HDD (external) for ~60€ ;)

These solutions are not only faster and much easier to use, they also live much longer (usually) than a RW disc...

[Shinigami-Sama]

I got a 250GB passport(2.5" external) drive for 96$ CAD
way better deal than RW media, not to mention when you put them in they work 99.999% of the time rather than 20% of the time