DG NV tools [Archive] - Page 4

woah!

15th August 2009, 05:00

since the new betas came out, i see you are leaving the source as is. 1920x1088 ---> 1920x1080 was done by your program automatically before. why do most file viewers like mediainfo show the source files as 1920x1080 but yours show 1088?

should i crop 8 off before processing it then or leave it as is, mostly use bluray source files which are film 24/23.976fps ..

DGAVCIndexNV 1.0.14 beta 5 on left pic and beta 6 on right:

http://pic.leech.it/i/3d407/0387be01111111.jpg

Audionut

15th August 2009, 06:11

As I said, dgindex always reports the coded frame size, not including the stream's specified (cropped) display area.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1312860#post1312860

prokhozhijj

15th August 2009, 09:39

How much memory does your video card have? Some of the 8800GTS cards have VP1 only.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PureVideo#Table_of_PureVideo_.28HD.29_GPUs

It seems that I have videocard with 640 Mb memory. Is it a reason why it does not work with your soft? If so, sorry for disturbing you.

But could you add to your soft some tests about version of Pure Video HD engine used by videocard? I think that it can save the time for other users such me (and your time too).

ultratoto14

15th August 2009, 09:59

With 640Mb, you have the first version of the 8800 GTS, this version does not have the required component to use DGNV tools.

Guest

15th August 2009, 12:50

since the new betas came out, i see you are leaving the source as is. 1920x1088 ---> 1920x1080 was done by your program automatically before. why do most file viewers like mediainfo show the source files as 1920x1080 but yours show 1088?

should i crop 8 off before processing it then or leave it as is, mostly use bluray source files which are film 24/23.976fps .. Yes, you can just use "Video/Cropping Filter" to crop it.

I have seen some streams that have good content in that last 8 pixels and thought it would be useful to have the option to retain it when resizing. I'm open to reconsidering that decision if it bothers people too much.

Guest

15th August 2009, 12:53

It seems that I have videocard with 640 Mb memory. Is it a reason why it does not work with your soft? If so, sorry for disturbing you. That card won't work. But didn't you say that it worked with beta 4??? That's why I didn't immediately explore this possibility.

prokhozhijj

15th August 2009, 16:19

That card won't work. But didn't you say that it worked with beta 4??? That's why I didn't immediately explore this possibility.

Yes, your soft (beta 4) worked with my videocard. So I am surprised too. Again, sorry for disturbing you. I did not noticed this restriction.

Guest

15th August 2009, 17:28

Yes, your soft (beta 4) worked with my videocard. I don't believe it. And if by some miracle it happens to be true, then we should investigate it further.

Audionut

15th August 2009, 17:33

A good start would be to download this and provide a screen shot of the main screen.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/1379/TechPowerUp_GPU-Z_v0.3.4.html

prokhozhijj

15th August 2009, 19:31

a good start would be to download this and provide a screen shot of the main screen.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/1379/techpowerup_gpu-z_v0.3.4.html

10166

prokhozhijj

15th August 2009, 19:41

I don't believe it. And if by some miracle it happens to be true, then we should investigate it further.

Please see attached file.

10167

Sulik

15th August 2009, 19:43

Your signature says you have a 8800GTS - IIRC, unless it's a GTS512, it doesn't have VP2

Revgen

15th August 2009, 19:49

I don't believe it. And if by some miracle it happens to be true, then we should investigate it further.

A 320mb version of a PNY 8800 GTS (VP1) is on e-bay for a "Buy it Now" price of 100 bucks if anybody wants to investigate.

Guest

15th August 2009, 20:30

@prokhozhijj

Since you claim to have a card that is not formally supported I'm just not going to spend any time on apparent mysteries.

woah!

15th August 2009, 20:44

Yes, you can just use "Video/Cropping Filter" to crop it.

I have seen some streams that have good content in that last 8 pixels and thought it would be useful to have the option to retain it when resizing. I'm open to reconsidering that decision if it bothers people too much.

its not a bother, its just i sometimes forget to crop 8 off when processing. just have to do it a few times for it to become a habit :0

prokhozhijj

15th August 2009, 20:45

@prokhozhijj

Since you claim to have a card that is not formally supported I'm just not going to spend any time on apparent mysteries.

Ok, I've understood this. But please think about this:

The Second Generation PureVideo HD

Starting with the G84/G86 GPUs (sold as the GeForce 8400/8500/8600 series), NVIDIA substantially re-designed GPU's H.264 decoding block. The second generation PureVideo HD added a dedicated bitstream processor (BSP) and enhanced video processor, which enabled the GPU to completely offload the H.264-decoding pipeline. VC-1 acceleration was also improved, with PureVideo HD now able to offload more of VC-1-decoding pipeline's backend (inverse discrete cosine transform (iDCT) and motion compensation stages.) The frontend (bitstream) pipeline is still decoded by the host CPU[3]. The second generation PureVideo HD enabled mainstream PCs to play HD-DVD and Blu-ray movies, as the majority of the processing-intenstive video-decoding was now offloaded to the GPU. From Forceware 178.24 onwards, VP2 capable cards are able to decode H.264 High@L5.0 while ATI UVD2 can support up to H.264 High@L4.1.

The second generation PureVideo HD is sometimes called "PureVideo HD 2" or VP2, although this is not an official NVIDIA designation.

There is nothing about MPEG2 decoding, only about VC-1 and h.264. So I tend to think that your software should work correctly with my graphics card.

I also downloaded file with title "PureVideo HD Support" from NVidia site. According to this document my video card does not support only following features:
- H.264 Decode with IDCT and CAVLC/CABAC
- VC-1/WMV Decode Acceleration with IDCT
- H.264 Decode with IDCT and CAVLC/CABAC
- VC-1/WMV Decode Acceleration with IDCT
- Dynamic Tone Enhancement
- Dynamic Contrast Enhancement

Again there is no any word about MPEG2 decoding.

If I am not right please point me where.

Revgen

15th August 2009, 21:22

prokhozhijj

15th August 2009, 21:54

^So you want MPEG-2 indexing but not VC1 or AVC?
What is it that you want from DGMPGIndexNV that you can't get from DGIndex and DGDecode? Purevideo Deinterlacing?
Also, do you play games alot with your card?

Yes for the present. Yes. Yes.

But is this so important? I spent my money (not so much truly) and time (a lot of and this is more important) for this soft. First of all I want to know why Beta4 works with my card properly (except for deinterlace=2) but following versions does not, though they can (according to docs). I think that it is a bug in software. And if I really spent time testing the software, I expect that the developer will give me good explanation (not the runaround) why I am not right.

Thank you for your understanding in advance.

Guest

16th August 2009, 01:26

I expect that the developer will give me good explanation (not the runaround) Send me an email and I'll refund your donation.

Beta 5 and beyond no longer use the D3D framework and I suppose this Nvidia change has broken MPEG2 for your G80 GPU. But I always said this card was not supported so you've no reason to start insulting me.

Here's what my website says:

"DGMPGDecNV runs on Nvidia graphics cards that support CUDA video decoding. That means the card must have a VP2 or greater engine. VP1 is not supported! You can check which engine your card has here:"

...and there follows a link to the Nvidia list of cards and engines.

halsboss

16th August 2009, 03:05

Bad luck, prokhozhijj. but neuron2 is right.

On the plus side, neuron2's non-NV tools work great too !

For mpeg2 stuff (I need 1080i -> 576i) I've found that my quick'n'dirty non-deinterlacing resizing in avisynth produces a more pleasing visual result for me than Nvidia's deinterlacing and then reinterlacing in avisynth later anyway; and it isn't all that much slower for mpeg2 to do it that way.

Guest

16th August 2009, 03:08

For mpeg2 stuff (I need 1080i -> 576i) I've found that my quick'n'dirty non-deinterlacing resizing in avisynth produces a more pleasing visual result for me than Nvidia's deinterlacing and then reinterlacing in avisynth later anyway; and it's isn't all that much slower for mpeg2 to do it that way. What exactly is your method?

halsboss

16th August 2009, 03:20

Dirty. Very dirty. Method copied from another thread. 1st script in this post http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1312227&postcount=111 Eye of the beholder stuff, it was "for me" :)

Am open to other suggestions (link to threads maybe). very fast sports action on a huge grassed field, 36 players, 5 umpires, with lots and lots of panning, zooming, cuts and whatnot.

Guest

16th August 2009, 03:52

I can't believe that looks better than doing double rate with PureVideo and then reinterlacing.

halsboss

16th August 2009, 07:51

Seems funny, doesn't it, but there you go. 1440x1080i -> 576i. Source deleted now, next capture a week away probably a different channel too.

prokhozhijj

16th August 2009, 08:51

Send me an email and I'll refund your donation.

I understand that it was my fault so I will not to ask you to give my money back.

Beta 5 and beyond no longer use the D3D framework and I suppose this Nvidia change has broken MPEG2 for your G80 GPU.

Thank you for this explanation. That's all I wanted from you (for now ;) ).

But I always said this card was not supported so you've no reason to start insulting me.

May be my English is not good enough. This is not my native language. So I am really sorry if you think that I want to insult you.

Guest

16th August 2009, 15:11

Seems funny, doesn't it, but there you go. 1440x1080i -> 576i. Source deleted now, next capture a week away probably a different channel too. I'd be curious to see screenshots and a source clip when you are able to generate them.

Guest

16th August 2009, 15:15

May be my English is not good enough. Thanks for your clarification. The phrase "runaround" implies an intention to evade or deceive. I think if you review my history you'll see that is not my way.

halsboss

17th August 2009, 08:38

I know people who work for government agencies... It can also mean not putting in the necessary effort to achieve an outcome, for whatever reason :)

GZZ

17th August 2009, 12:35

hey Neuron2, what are working on for Beta 8 of your really great tool ?

Allowing multiple connection to GPU would be nice or atleast a warning so it dosnt kill the cuvidserver. :)

/GZZ

prokhozhijj

17th August 2009, 12:38

neuron2,

Could you please to publish your todo list or roadmap? Is it possible that you'll decide soon to switch your soft to VP3 engine? If so, when it can happen? I think about upgrade my video card. And I do not want to buy old junk that you may reject to support in nearest future.

Guest

17th August 2009, 13:34

Nothing is planned yet, but the test GZZ suggests should be done.

I use the NVCUVID API; I don't explicitly code for any engine. I highly doubt that Nvidia would release anything not backward compatible to existing cards.

prokhozhijj

17th August 2009, 14:00

I use the NVCUVID API; I don't explicitly code for any engine. I highly doubt that Nvidia would release anything not backward compatible to existing cards.

If so, how about my existing card with VP1-engine? Your site determine exactly that soft supports only VP2-engine. Isn't it? Didn't you told me about this a few messages before?

Sorry, neuron2, but I stopped to understand you at all.

Guest

17th August 2009, 14:44

If so, how about my existing card with VP1-engine? Your site determine exactly that your soft supports only VP2-engine. Isn't it? Didn't you told me about this a few messages before?

Sorry, neuron2, but I stopped to understand you at all. It's very simple. I invoke the NVCUVID API. I have no code to test what engine is present. If things don't work on a given card it is because Nvidia does not support NVCUVID on that card. Nvidia tells me that VP2 or greater is required so that is what I say on my website.

Sell your card on ebay and get one with VP2 or greater.

Revgen

17th August 2009, 14:55

prokhozhijj

17th August 2009, 15:13

It's very simple. I invoke the NVCUVID API. I have no code to test what engine is present. If things don't work on a given card it is because Nvidia does not support NVCUVID on that card. Nvidia tells me that VP2 or greater is required so that is what I say on my website.

Ok. it may be time when you start to using code from VP3 engine. It allready happens when your code does not work on VP1 cards. So it may occure in future with VP2 cards and so on.

You are using some code and do not know exactly when it will stop to work properly on which cards. Is it a good practice?

Don't you think that any of your user may change his card as frequently as you change the code?

In response to this question, please do not forget that the card can be used not only to decode the movie. There are different price categories for the cards from the same manufacturer (from $35 till $600).

BTW, top Nvidia cards does not use VP3 engine according to Wikipedia.

If things don't work on a given card it is because Nvidia does not support NVCUVID on that card.

This is not only reason. You forgot probably about bugs in your soft.

And may be you have any idea why Power DVD Player (it is using the same functionality of NVidia card (deinterlace) as your soft) works properly with my video card and your soft is not?

Revgen

17th August 2009, 15:26

Ok. it may be time when you start to using code from VP3 engine. It allready happens when your code does not work on VP1 cards. So it may occured in future with VP2 cards and so on.

You are using some code and do not know exactly when it will stop to work properly on which cards. Is it a good practice?

Do you think that any of your user may change his card as frequently as you change the code?

In response to this question, please do not forget that the card can be used not only to decode the movie. There are different price categories for the cards from the same manufacturer (from $35 till $600).

Neuron2 is using code supplied by Nvidia. Blaming him is like blaming Blizzard because Warcraft isn't working with your card because Nvidia's drivers are flawed. Neuron2 works on indexing the streams, while Nvidia ensures that the streams are decoded properly. Any VP3 code theoretically would be backward compatible with VP2. I know one thing for sure, my VP3 works with these programs so obviously nothing bad is going on.

Neuron2 has stated on his website that VP2 and above are supported. That's because Nvidia has guaranteed that VP2 and above will work. If that isn't the case, then he will refund your money.

Guest

17th August 2009, 15:39

Ok. it may be time when you start to using code from VP3 engine. This is the last time I am going to respond to this. I use only the NVCUVID API. I do not and will not code specifically for any particular engine.

It allready happens when your code does not work on VP1 cards. It has nothing to do with my coding.

So it may occured in future with VP2 cards and so on. See above.

You are using some code and do not know exactly when it will stop to work properly on which cards. Is it a good practice? Hey I also use the Windows API. Do you think MS will give me their source code so I can conduct a design review? And they'll let me review their future changes so I can guarantee that nothing gets broken?

Don't you think that any of your user may change his card as frequently as you change the code? As long as it is VP2 or greater it will be supported.

prokhozhijj

17th August 2009, 16:16

Blaming him is like blaming Blizzard because Warcraft isn't working with your card because Nvidia's drivers are flawed.

First of all. I do not want to blame somebody. Let's remember this. I am just asking questions. Secondly, Warcraft may not work properly because of bugs in NVidia drivers and because of own bugs.

Hey I also use the Windows API. Do you think MS will give me their source code so I can conduct a design review? And they'll let me review their future changes so I can guarantee that nothing gets broken?

I told about minimal testing capabilities in your soft. I believe (but not sure) that it is possible to write such code. I know a lot of programs that do such testing about operating environment which they use.

As long as it is VP2 or greater it will be supported.

But you always have a choice: to use new features or not. I am speaking about this.

And may be you have any idea why Power DVD Player (it uses the same functionality as your soft (ie deinterlace)) work properly with my videocard and your soft do not? This is because D3D?

Revgen

17th August 2009, 17:49

Guest

17th August 2009, 17:50

And may be you have any idea why Power DVD Player (it uses the same functionality as your soft (ie deinterlace)) work properly with my videocard and your soft do not? This is because D3D? Yes, I think so. The API offers the old way and the new way. I chose the new way for performance reasons. I have no interest in supporting your card's VP1 engine and I'm not going to make an option to choose the method. If you don't like it, I'll refund your donation.

prokhozhijj

17th August 2009, 18:44

I chose the new way for performance reasons.

Ok. Did you test performance of old and new methods? If so, could you publish results or may be point to these results on NVidia site? This information is necessary to me to decide whether to upgrade my graphics card.

Guest

17th August 2009, 19:09

Ok. Did you test performance of old and new methods? If so, could you publish results or may be point to these results on NVidia site? This information is necessary to me to decide whether to upgrade my graphics card. I was told by Nvidia that the D3D-less operation performs better, especially on low end cards. I did not perform any tests.

But for you, clearly an upgrade to a VP2+ card is going to give you a bugger bump than going D3D-less.

lucassp

18th August 2009, 08:41

And may be you have any idea why Power DVD Player (it uses the same functionality as your soft (ie deinterlace)) work properly with my videocard and your soft do not? This is because D3D?

PowerDVD decodes and renders the image through the DXVA chain. The DXVA chain uses the EVR/VMR renderers which makes it possible to use deinterlacing on older VP1/UVD video cards. Some of the current decoder filters (FFDShow, CoreAVC, PowerDVD and others) can connect to EVR/VMR, flag the stream as interlaced, convert to a proper colorspace, and the video card handles the deinterlacing.

Since CUDA is a crossplatform API it doesn't have to be dependent on any Windows only APIs like DXVA. So nVidia made the NVCUVID API DXVA-less and D3D-less.

I hope this answers your question better.

LE: One more thing I forgot to write about. The VP1 doesn't have an Bitstream Processor, so that has to be done in software mode. This can be done using specific APIs (like DirectShow, GStreamer) or nVidia has to write its own software decoder. In the end nVidia chose to support only the hardware decoding capabilities of the VP2+ chips.

prokhozhijj

18th August 2009, 08:50

I hope this answers your question better.

Thank you very much for explanation.

Guest

18th August 2009, 15:04

When I encode my VC1's to AVC, I like to be able to use avisynth's ssim test to measure the encode to the original. Problem is that dgdecodenv doesn't allow multiple instances. From looking at your conversation with the Nvidia guy, it appears this is a limitation of CUDA. Is it possible to workaround this issue by implementing it into dgdecodenv somehow? Actually, I experimented with multiple instances early on and it appeared that it was the D3D framework that prevented it from working properly. Now that we have D3D-less operation, the possibility of multiple instance support arises again. I can't promise a time frame, but it's something I too am interested in.

Actually, in NV beta 7, the indexers are D3D-less but the server is not, due to an Nvidia bug that will be fixed in the next driver version. So we have to wait for that also.

GZZ

18th August 2009, 18:39

Actually, in NV beta 7, the indexers are D3D-less but the server is not.

Yea - just tried the indexer at the same time I was using the CUVIDServer for encoding and it sure did work. So getting multiple instance from the CUVIDServer shouldnt be impossible.

I'm looking forward to the new nvidia driver and beta 8. Great Work. :thanks:

Revgen

18th August 2009, 21:21

Actually, I experimented with multiple instances early on and it appeared that it was the D3D framework that prevented it from working properly. Now that we have D3D-less operation, the possibility of multiple instance support arises again. I can't promise a time frame, but it's something I too am interested in.

Actually, in NV beta 7, the indexers are D3D-less but the server is not, due to an Nvidia bug that will be fixed in the next driver version. So we have to wait for that also.

Nvidia seems to release a WHQL driver every month or so. The last one they released was on July 21st. Hopefully the next one is around the corner.

Guest

18th August 2009, 22:10

They told me end of August.

laserfan

19th August 2009, 15:53

If any of these (all nitpicks) have been mentioned already, I apologize, but here goes:

1. In NVbeta7's DGAVCIndexNV's About box, it sez 1.0.14 beta 6. Maybe correct/intentional tho I notice while the other MPG/VC1 tools have different numbers, they show beta 7.

2. In testing/trying older versions to nail-down a problem, I did along the way rename my folders to "/DGbetax". Later I noticed I could not open my .avs w/Vdub anymore:

Avisynth open failure
DGSource: Invalid license

After hand-wringing re: MachineID and License and MAC address et.al., I realized the problem was that I'd renamed my DGTools directory, because within the .dga I'd created it still expected /DGTools. So the problem wasn't an "Invalid license" at all but rather failure to find /DGTools. Not sure if this is fixable, or worth fixing at all (pilot error)... :o

3. When I run CUVIDServer and do an x264 encoding, when that encoding is done I index my newly-created .264 file, and then try to open w/Avisynth-Vdub and I get an error from the still-running-from-the-encode-process CUVIDServer (sorry I didn't note the error). Usually (always?) results in CTL-ALT-DEL to force End Process of CUVIDServer, but then I run it again and my avs/vdub works.

FYI