BD-RB with VC-1 1080i

[Capsbackup]

I have tried the last three releases of BD-RB on Terminator 3, NTSC with full movie backup and movie only backup, and the results have been the same every time. I can't determine if this is a BD-RB bug, TsMuxer bug or just one of those strange blurays that are trouble. :devil:

I have reported this before in the bug reports thread, but I think that thread has become so convoluted that I would start this one. I also would think there are other movies out there like this that others have tried and may have similar issues.

The BDinfo of the original:
00001.MPLS - 01:49:00, 14,008,811,520 ; VC-1, 1080i/29.970fps/16:9/Advanced Profile 3. Also has three DD 5.1/48kHz/640kbps audio tracks, Eng, Fre, and Spa and three DD 2.0/48kHz/192kbps Eng tracks, and four subtitle tracks.

00002.MPLS - 01:48:59, 15,369,861,120 ; VC-1, 1080p/23.976fps/16:9/Advanced Profile 3. Also has one 2.0/48kHz/192kbps audio track and no subtitle tracks.

The original disc and ISO of the original disc play back perfectly with PowerDVD.

BDinfo of the BD-RB full movie backup:
00001.MPLS - 01:49:00, 10,574,635,008 ; MPEG-4 AVC Video, 1080p/29.970fps/16:9/High Profile 4.1. Also has one DD 5.1/48kHz/640kbps audio track (all I kept), and three DD 2.0/48kHz/192kbps Eng audio tracks ( kept all).

00002.MPLS - 01:48:59, MPEG-4 AVC Video, 1080p/23.976fps/16:9/High Profile 4.1. Also has one 2.0/48kHz/192kbps audio track and no subtitle tracks.

The problem: BD-RB backup does not have the audio in sync with the video on the 00001.MPLS/M2ts file. This is the main movie file.
The 00002.MPLS/M2ts has perfect audio sync. This is the " In-Movie-Experience" file that has the director and actors comments that play along with the movie. There is also a periodic pop-up window of the directors and actors and their comments as the movie plays, and the backround movie audio and the comments are all in sync.

Why BD-RB reencodes the 00001.m2ts file and changes the way BDinfo sees it from 1080i to 1080p, (or TsMuxer)? But it still sees it as 29.970fps.
When I separately use TsMuxer on the individual 00001.m2ts file, select "change fps" to 24001/1001 and select "remove pulldown", and create a new blu-ray, this "new rebuild" of this .m2ts file has perfect audio sync and subtitle sync.
So I was able to "fix" the audio sync problem, but am only able to for a movie only backup.
Unless, someone knows a way to substitute the in sync .m2ts with the out of sync .m2ts and make the necessary changes to the new structure to still keep the menu working properly.
Why the original version plays with audio sync but the reencoded version loses audio sync is the mystery!!

[turbojet]

You might be able to take the 24p m2ts and clpi and do a direct replacement and it may work. As far as I know the framerate and prcgressive/interlaced is stored in the clpi and beyond that nothing changed.

It would be nice if BD-RB was able to detect and remove pulldown however what it does now is deinterlace 30i which is the worst thing you can do. Just like dvdr it's much better to keep it 30i. In fact from everything I've read 30p isn't allowed on AVCHD\BD only 24p 25p 50p 50i 60p 60i is.

Currently I usually encode interlaced streams as interlaced and put them back in the workfiles, sometimes it's a lot of work but it yields much better results.

Come to think of it 30p could be why some players won't play menus as most menus are 30i.

[Capsbackup]

You might be able to take the 24p m2ts and clpi and do a direct replacement and it may work. As far as I know the framerate is stored in the clpi and beyond that nothing changed.

It would be nice if BD-RB was able to detect and remove pulldown however what it does now is deinterlace 30i which is the worst thing you can do. Just like dvdr it's much better to keep it 30i. In fact from everything I've read 30p isn't allowed on AVCHD\BD only 24p 25p 30i 50p 50i 60p 60i is.

I tried this and made corrections to the .mpls with BDEdit and .clpi with CLIPINF_Editor, but the menu still would not work properly... Of course I probably did not use them correctly. Which is why I NEED BD-RB :confused:

[turbojet]

You could always encode twice as unfortunate as it seems and replace the mkv in the workfiles with the new one you encode.

.264 as an elementary stream is known to have some issues that mkv doesn't, frankly it would be best if BD-RB only used mkv elementary.

[Furiousflea]

Not sure if you are aware but Terminator 3 really is 1080i.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1197/terminator3.html

acknowledged by Warner...apparently.

edit...forgive me, you are past determining the weird video on the disc :)

I'm with you on those recommendations turbojet...why is it that ever pc video related program just loves to de-interlace everything in sight and never do it properly either.

[turbojet]

Strange thing is I don't recall DVD-RB ever deinterlacing by default but it was already pretty well known that deinterlacing DVD was a bad idea before DVD-RB existed.

DVD-RB has the option to deinterlace but anyone who is really doing it obviously isn't watching on a DVD player as it's unwatchable.

[DaMacFunkin]

The strange thing about all this is i have this title on HD DVD and the encodoing on there is defo 1080p.
What a shame you couldn't substitute the blu-ray stream with the hd dvd :rolleyes:

[Capsbackup]

It would be fine with me to keep the video 1080i and not deinterlacing it if the audio would stay in sync. Or deinterlace it, but maintain audio sync. I guess this is where I am stuck. If it could keep the video the same as the original, why does the audio not stay in sync? And by just changing the frame rate to 23.976fps, which should not be necessary, brings it into sync. :(

[turbojet]

If you load the original m2ts into tsmuxer demux without removing pulldown and remux with tsmuxer does it stay in sync? If you remove pulldown does it stay in sync?

I've successfully replaced the mkv in workfiles many times with different video because BD-RB often leaves a few hundred MB on the DVD or oversizes.
You should be able to do the same thing with terminator. Remove pulldown in tsmuxer would be your best option, then encode to mkv and replace it in the workfiles.

Why .mkv? Because using .264 as elementary stream has problems with some players.

[Capsbackup]

If you load the original m2ts into tsmuxer demux without removing pulldown and remux with tsmuxer does it stay in sync?
I have not tried that, but I will.

If you remove pulldown does it stay in sync?
Yes. This was how I was able to make the movie only backup with audio sync.

I was not aware I could substitute a .mkv in place of a .264 within BD-RB. BD-RB creates a .264. So I would just substitute a new encode to .mkv, and rename it to the " VID_00001.AVS.264 that BD-RB created, and do a new "Rebuild"? If that is true, I could try that. I thought .mkv has audio multiplexed within, where BD-RB multiplexes the .264 and .ac3 to .m2ts. Maybe I'm not sure here of what you are suggesting. :confused:

[turbojet]

Well since you are using .264 already you would replace it with another .264.

However if you ever plan on playing it on the PC you might want to consider using mkv intermediate files to avoid seek and sync errors.

[Capsbackup]

This was for a full movie backup to BD-R, 25GB. I have already successfully created a movie only to BD-5, but was testing BD-RB for bugs/compatibility with this movie. Ultimate goal was a full movie backup to BD-R. I could not replace a 23.976fps encoded .264 within BD-RB, because BD-RB would just rebuild it back to 29.970fps, and audio would be out of sync again. If I could force BD-RB to rebuild the file to 23.976fps, maybe it would work. I could not figure out how to do this though, or if it were even possible!

[turbojet]

Oh you'd have to change framerate in the video line of the MUX.meta file too.

When removing pulldown what is the switch used in the muxer and where is it?

MUXOPT --dopulldown?

[Capsbackup]

Oh you'd have to change framerate in the video line of the MUX.meta file too.

When removing pulldown what is the switch used in the muxer and where is it?

MUXOPT --dopulldown?

I tried that also, but BD-RB looks at the original and keeps/rebuilds the .m2ts at 29.970fps. So I tried changing the original to 23.976fps with CLIPINF_Editor and changing the .mpls with BDEdit, and do a new rebuild, but then BD-RB says the workfiles folder is not empty, want to delete. So it detects the change and wants to start all over again.

[turbojet]

I give up. BD-RB could really use a 3 step process to fix this and a few other things. It also may inspire some external tools like RB-opt.

I don't know if delpulldown is a good idea to run on all 30i clips, I tried it on one that had no pulldown, it gave some warnings but the result seemed fine.

I wonder if there's some pulldown flag in the stream. Could you cut a small clip, 5 seconds is fine, from the retail m2ts with audio that I could check sync on?

[Capsbackup]

Original does maintain audio sync perfectly, as does the test I just tried on a demux and remux of the original .m2ts with tsMuxeR_1.10.1(b), as you asked above. Yes, I have pretty much resigned to the idea that this one has got the best of me. However, if jdobbs were to try this one out and give his opinion, maybe he could shed more light on it. :)

[Furiousflea]

This is basic stuff people...

29.97 fps clip that should be pulled down to 23.976 if played...Audio going out of synch because BDRB isn't respecting this (as it doesn't resepect much in terms of frame rate lol)...

All it needs is for jdobbs to make it so BDRB re-encodes video paying attention to it being interlaced\progressive\frame rate and if pulldown flag is present etc.

Until then...Well, just wait it out, it's only a problem on a couple of freaky discs.