[SOLVED]VFR_WMV into x264, video sync delay?

[NiGHTsC]

http://www.vimeo.com/4215168
You can download the original video using the free member download feature on the bottom right of the page

Below is the Mediainfo
Video
Format : VC-1
Codec ID : WMV3
Codec ID/Info : Windows Media Video 9
Codec ID/Hint : WMV3
Duration : 2mn 5s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 7 124 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.258
Language : en-us


As you can see in the stream video (not the download one), the video is few secs delayed cause of the VFR_WMV, audio and subtitle went fine as usual though.

I've tried to add convertfps=true in both MeGUI and Ripbot264, as well as to downgrade FPS to 23.976 (fps=23.976), but still not fixing this sync problem.

Is there anything else I could add in AVS to fix this video sync?


Thank you in advance.

[Selur]

Could you upload it (the source) somewhere else?, since probably not all people want to create a vimeo account. (even if it's free)
Personally I would like to try to convert it with sx264, which is not using avisynth but mencoder/ffmpeg for decoding and filtering. (always on the hunt for testclips ;))

Cu Selur

[roozhou]

No you can't if you are using avisynth script since avisynth does NOT support variable-framerate.

Please give dshow x264 a try(no GUI available now, you need to use cmdline)
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=141441

[nm]

I've tried to add convertfps=true in both MeGUI and Ripbot264, as well as to downgrade FPS to 23.976 (fps=23.976), but still not fixing this sync problem.
You could also try preserving the original, variable framerates. Use WMVTIMES.exe (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=827302#post827302) to create a timecode file from the source and use it when muxing the re-encoded video and audio to Matroska. Don't use convertfps when you try this.

[JEEB]

Agreed with the earlier poster:

FFMS2's ffvideosource() + wmvtimes.exe -> ??? -> profit

[roozhou]

You could also try preserving the original, variable framerates. Use WMVTIMES.exe (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=827302#post827302) to create a timecode file from the source and use it when muxing the re-encoded video and audio to Matroska. Don't use convertfps when you try this.

If you do not use "convertfps", the video will repeat(or truncate) to fit the original length because avisynth needs a total frame number before playback and this number CANNOT be changed.

[JEEB]

If you do not use "convertfps", the video will repeat(or truncate) to fit the original length because avisynth needs a total frame number before playback and this number CANNOT be changed.

I did end up lol'ing, didn't I. First of all, as far as I can see he wants to re-encode the WMV, not play it back. And even if Avisynth doesn't as-is support VFR - it can still get all the frames out and with WMVTIMES you will have the timecodes. After he re-encodes the frames he can re-mux with DTSrepair or something to add timecodes information to the end result file if he needs MP4. For MKV it's even easier with mkvmergegui.

If he has subtitles these can be easily converted to be usable with the CFR'd stream. The only thing that's not-so-easy with my solution is that ffvideousource can give out a weird fps, but that can be fixed with an assumefps() that is close enough to the original. Kthx.

No repeat, no weirdness, no need for directshow hacking.

[roozhou]

@JEEB
I am not talking about ffms2 (yes it works). He mentioned convertfps so I assumed he was using DirectShowSource. The latest vsfilter supports external timecodes in TextSub, and he can use ffdshow as video decoder and subtitle renderer while not caring CFR or VFR.

Why do you think directshow is "hacking"? DirectShow is a more up-to-date technology compared to VFW which avisynth is based on, isn't it?

[Dark Shikari]

VFW which avisynth is based on:rolleyes:

[roozhou]

:rolleyes:

Actually avisynth frameserves like a vfw decoder, right?

[b66pak]

@NiGHTsC can you use mediafire or megaupload for the sample?
_

[juGGaKNot]

Vimeo : user login juggaknot4cs@yahoo.com pass pglforum.

Old email, i made it for people that want to download my vimeo videos.

[b66pak]

"The email address and password you entered do not match."
_

[NiGHTsC]

Sorry, my mistake for not upload it with main topic.

File uploaded to drop.io
http://drop.io/pbg3etx/asset/ffxiii-demo-cutscene-720p-part2-40s-wmv
just click Download and you are good to go

Thanx again!


I just try to get the timecode with WMVTIMES.exe
re-encoded WMV, video to 264, audio to AAC, merge with MKVMerge GUI v2.4.2, FPS set to 29.970 and timecode loaded in GUI
and it gives me this error message.
Warning: 'J:\video.264' track 0: The number of external timecodes 879 is smaller than the number of frames in this track. The remaining frames of this track might not be timestamped the way you intended them to be. mkvmerge might even crash.


by the way, I just re-encode WMV to x264 once again without adding convertfps=true ACCIDENTALLY
and the x264 version played great, no lag no delay!
but...it replay the last few frames at the end of the video...
guess the x264 video finish to play the frames too early so it has to replay them to fit the original length of video.

Here is the no lag no delay, but frame replay video.
http://drop.io/kgctezg/asset/ffxiii-demo-cutscene-720p-part2-40s-non-convertfps-mkv


Thank you once more!

[roozhou]

by the way, I just re-encode WMV to x264 once again without adding convertfps=true ACCIDENTALLY
and the x264 version played great, no lag no delay!
but...it replay the last few frames at the end of the video...
guess the x264 video finish to play the frames too early so it has to replay them to fit the original length of video.


That's right. I mentioned in previous post, this is the limitation of avisynth's framework! You can also try mencoder based GUI (sx264, mediacoder) or avidemux which does not suffer from such limitation.

[nm]

by the way, I just re-encode WMV to x264 once again without adding convertfps=true ACCIDENTALLY
and the x264 version played great, no lag no delay!
but...it replay the last few frames at the end of the video...
guess the x264 video finish to play the frames too early so it has to replay them to fit the original length of video.
Read JEEB's posts about ffvideosource.

[b66pak]

@NiGHTsC your wmv is NOT vfr...is pure 29.97fps

here are the timecodes:

# timecode format v2
0
33
67
100
133
167
200
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267
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334
367
400
434
467
500
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567
601
634
667
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734
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if you try to convert it to 23.976fps you will destroy it because every frame is UNIQUE end you must decimate...
_

[NiGHTsC]

That's right. I mentioned in previous post, this is the limitation of avisynth's framework! You can also try mencoder based GUI (sx264, mediacoder) or avidemux which does not suffer from such limitation.I see...><
Yah, I'm just trying to keep my programs

Read JEEB's posts about ffvideosource.wow, cool! it's fixed now...!!
the 40secs video finally played well...XD


but...
Is it possible that even with FFVideoSource, it still can't fix the sync problem?
or maybe I just got wrong setting in somewhere?

I try to encore other same-codecs&FPS-WMV and the problem is back, the video is 2-4secs delayed= =

This is how my AVS looks like with FFMS2LoadPlugin("I:\RipBot264v1.13.3\Tools\FFMS2\FFMS2.dll")
video=FFVideoSource("I:\FFXIII_Demo_Cutscene_720p_part4.wmv").ConvertToYV12()

then I re-encoe with DirectShowSource+non-convertfps=true and still 1-2secs delayed

at last, DirectShowSource+convertfps=true and same as FFMS2, 2-4secs delayed.

@NiGHTsC your wmv is NOT vfr...is pure 29.97fps

if you try to convert it to 23.976fps you will destroy it because every frame is UNIQUE end you must decimate...
_lol..my bad, another mistake...
convertfps=true isn't fixing it so I thought it must be a VFR
in fact, I just have no clue how to determine whether it is a VFR_WMV or not...


Thank you and Thank you :D

[roozhou]

I guess the video contains a "still" frame which is one black frame lasting 1~2 seconds.

[NiGHTsC]

hm..depends on the setting, it could last longer, from 1~4secs...

I may upload another one if necessary, cause this one is much bigger, 177MB...><!!

[roozhou]

hm..depends on the setting, it could last longer, from 1~4secs...

I may upload another one if necessary, cause this one is much bigger, 177MB...><!!

I highly suggest you try my x264 build here. It can easily solve such problem. I tested your sample and it worked great.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=141441

[b66pak]

after reading this:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1274083#post1274083

i thing your sync problems are result of audio part of the movie (VSR .wma)
_

[NiGHTsC]

I highly suggest you try my x264 build here. It can easily solve such problem. I tested your sample and it worked great.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=141441with FFMS2, the sample I uploaded could be done without any problem.

But it's just not working with another video...

maybe it's the audio sync now...

omg...MS just can't stop making things more complicated...:mad::mad:


Thank you.

after reading this:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1274083#post1274083

i thing your sync problems are result of audio part of the movie (VSR .wma)
_do you have any other WMV demux? cause this WMVMuxer cannot demux the audio.

You could try with the 40s.wmv I uploaded.


Thank you.


Edit: Alright, I just upload the 177MB video.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/zuyb18

[roozhou]

with FFMS2, the sample I uploaded could be done without any problem.

But it's just not working with another video...

maybe it's the audio sync now...

omg...MS just can't stop making things more complicated...:mad::mad:


This is not MS's fault. If you can play these videos without problem but the encodes give you A/V desync, this is the encoder's fault.

[JEEB]

I'd say its MS's fault for not opening stuff and making it harder for people to use open source alternatives, but I think as long as official tools work with this I guess it's alright (although it all still makes up unneeded steps).

Basically my workflow with this given video was:

1) Re-encode video with ffvideosource, get timecodes from wmvtimes
2) Extract that wma track with WME's tools
3) Re-encode audio with WME to the so-called lossless (VBR 100) WMA (here the file seems to become "sane" WMA).
4) Re-encode to AAC/whatever sane format needed with whatever you usually use for WMA sources.
5) Mux it all together.

Not really pretty, eh? But works. I wonder if ffmpeg or something can work with these files correctly so that *nix lusers or people who wish for automatization won't have any extra problems >_>

Also, this is the first time I'm actually getting "Variable Sample Rate"'d WMA thrown at me, so I guess this thread taught something to me as well.

[NiGHTsC]

This is not MS's fault. If you can play these videos without problem but the encodes give you A/V desync, this is the encoder's fault.It's just the "Variable XXXX" stuffs are driving me crazy...= =

I'd say its MS's fault for not opening stuff and making it harder for people to use open source alternatives, but I think as long as official tools work with this I guess it's alright (although it all still makes up unneeded steps).

Basically my workflow with this given video was:

1) Re-encode video with ffvideosource, get timecodes from wmvtimes
2) Extract that wma track with WME's tools
3) Re-encode audio with WME to the so-called lossless (VBR 100) WMA (here the file seems to become "sane" WMA).
4) Re-encode to AAC/whatever sane format needed with whatever you usually use for WMA sources.
5) Mux it all together.

Not really pretty, eh? But works. I wonder if ffmpeg or something can work with these files correctly so that *nix lusers or people who wish for automatization won't have any extra problems >_>

Also, this is the first time I'm actually getting "Variable Sample Rate"'d WMA thrown at me, so I guess this thread taught something to me as well.Alright, I just demux my 177MB's Video/Audio with Windows Stream Editor.
Encode the Audio with Windows Media Encoder - File archive, save it into Loseless(VBR 100)
get timecode with WMVTimes, encode Video into 264 using FFVideoSource in Ripbot
Encode Audio into MP4_AAC with MeGUI and with Nero AAC_dp_ NDAAC-HE-32Kbps preset
Mux 264/MP4_AAC/Timecode into MKV with MKVMerge GUI v2.4.2

boom...still out of sync...= =

I play the MKV with wma and it plays well, so something was wrong during the audio encoding process
it seems the loseless VBR 100 is still "insane"

JEEB, which Audio encoder did you use?

Thank You.

[JEEB]

It's just the "Variable XXXX" stuffs are driving me crazy...= =

Variable framerate and all would be much easier to deal with should the tools work as they should. I at least told to the developer of ffmpegsource about this kind of audio, and about the fact that ffms2 gives out a wee bit wrong timecodes for wmv, but I have no idea if he'll be able to do something before he gets less busy.

Also, after checking several places in my encoded video the output seems to be in synch :3 Link (http://jeeb.fiveforty.jp/x264/test2.mkv) to a small encode I made of it.

I used foobar2000 for the audio encoding with 2pass AAC @ 64kbps via neroaacenc. Also, when I was trying to re-encode the audio to VBR100, I actually re-encoded the video with WME, too - although I have no idea if that has anything to do with it :).

Also, update your meGUI's stuff (mkvmerge etc.) if you're using it - since that's one of the good things it does (until a version that gets in breaks ^^; ).

[NiGHTsC]

You sure the audio is in sync?
cause at 0:44, the aircraft's gun sound is 1~2secs earlier.

Yes, they are all up to date, at least when I open MeGUI, no "There's update, please download it" message.

Since I've tried to play my MKV with WMAs(demux-ed one and loseless one) and no sync problems
so all I need is an audio encoder that can encode these VSRs into constant ones.


Thank you.


PS. I love JP ISPs :D

[b66pak]

ok...i found this: "Windows Media Audio 9 Lossless to PCM Converter" here:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/encoder/utilities.aspx

install it and go to that location (:c:\Program Files\Windows Media Components\Tools\WMAL2PCM\")...read LossLessReadme.txt for instructions...

for your sample "FFXIII_Demo_Cutscene_720p_part4.wmv" i extracted the audio and convert to lossless and then i do this:


cmd/k wmal2pcm.exe FFXIII_Demo_Cutscene_720p_part4_lossless.wma FFXIII_Demo_Cutscene_720p_part4.wav

and i get:

c:\Program Files\Windows Media Components\Tools\WMAL2PCM>cmd/k wmal2pcm.exe FFXI
II_Demo_Cutscene_720p_part4_lossless.wma FFXIII_Demo_Cutscene_720p_part4.wav

Converting FFXIII_Demo_Cutscene_720p_part4_lossless.wma to FFXIII_Demo_Cutscene_720p_part4.wav
++ Song title:
++ Author:
++ Copyright:
++ Description:
++ Rating:
++ WMA bitstream version: 3
++ sampling rate: ++ # of channels: 2
++ bit-rate: 1152000 bps
++ duration: 282773 ms
++ DRM content: No
Presentation time is off by: 1000.250127 ms
Presentation time expected: 30092.742188 ms
Presentation time received: 31092.992315 ms
Full Read and Decode took 7 s.
Play Time would be 281 s.

pay attention to the red line!

i get a .wav witch should be delayed with "1000.250127 ms" to be in sync with the video!

i use BeHappy with this .avs:

########################################
#Created by BeHappy v0.2.3.38221
#Creation timestamp: 5/5/2009 9:17:30 PM
########################################
#Source FileName:E:\FFXIII_Demo_Cutscene_720p_part4.wav
#Target FileName:E:\\FFXIII_Demo_Cutscene_720p_part4_delayed.wav
########################################

########################################
# [Source: RaWav IgnoreLength always]
########################################
RaWavSource("E:\FFXIII_Demo_Cutscene_720p_part4.wav", 1)

########################################
# [BeHappy: Delay Audio by 1000 ms ]
DelayAudio( 1000.0/1000.0)

########################################
# [Encoder: Wav Writer]
########################################

the final .wav is in sync now...
_

L.E. try this with any other .wmv and report back please...

[NiGHTsC]

@b66pak
Where you found this 38221 version?
the newest one is 38071

cause I got only # [Source: WavSource] while you have # [Source: RaWav IgnoreLength always]


Edit1 : anyway, it seems the version doesn't matter after all, it's the 1000ms.
so once you have it delayed, everything goes perfectly, at least for the part4 one.


WME Stream Editor -> WME -> WMA to PCM -> BeHappy -> any Audio encoder
wow...crazy WMV...


Thanx alot b66pak and Thanx to everyone who tried to help me.
100x Thank you

:D

[b66pak]

you can also try this:

1 WMEncoder Stream Editor to extract the audio.
2 WMEncoder To convert .wma to .wma lossless.
3 LoRd_MuldeR's LameXP v3.08 (2009-03-05) - http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=119749 - to convert .wma lossless to whatevar you want (i only tested with the uncompressed wave PCM)
_

[NiGHTsC]

It's alright ;)
wmaltopcm is a good tool to find out the sync ms.
glad I have only few WMVs, rofl

Thanx again XD