New Power Director 7 patch and CUDA

[hackaro70]

There is flag but it is progressive; fake interlaced.
Check with arcsoft video decoder and select "deinterlace" as "none"; do you see any interlaced artifacts?

Rica, I noticed that Nero ShowTime stops to display the video part (the audio goes on normally) in the .m2ts stream whose I sent you a sample ... does it happen on your sample too? Mine stops video at around 1 minute and half of playback ... I re-enconded the original stream twice with Power Director 7 but all the times the playback stops at the same point! :(

TIA! :-)

Have a nice sunday! :sly:

[rica]

What artifacts, if it's already progressive?

That is what i was trying to say; no artifacts.
We should have seen any artifacts when deinterlacing selected "none".




Rica, I noticed that Nero ShowTime stops to display the video part (the audio goes on normally) in the .m2ts stream whose I sent you a sample ... does it happen on your sample too? Mine stops video at around 1 minute and half of playback ... I re-enconded the original stream twice with Power Director 7 but all the times the playback stops at the same point! :(

TIA! :-)

Have a nice sunday! :sly:

hackaro, i don't use Nero Showtime but i checked with MPC-HC and MPC.
Filters were haali and MPCVideo decoder and in a second shot they were Arcsoft's filters. It worked very well.
best :)

[hackaro70]

hackaro, i don't use Nero Showtime but i checked with MPC-HC and MPC.
Filters were haali and MPCVideo decoder and in a second shot they were Arcsoft's filters. It worked very well.
best :)

MPC-HC? MPC? what's that? :confused:

which filters are you talking about!? :confused:

are you sure that you didn't go to the end of file before getting to - at least - 1:30 mm:ss of playback? :p

[rica]

MPC-HC? MPC? what's that? :confused:

which filters are you talking about!? :confused:

are you sure that you didn't go to the end of file before getting to - at least - 1:30 mm:ss of playback? :p

MPC-HC Media Player Classic- Home Cinema (used with the filters i already mentioned on my above post)

BTW, your encode's duration is 27s 40ms... (you don't seem a noob or are you?- or just joking?)

[hackaro70]

MPC-HC Media Player Classic- Home Cinema (used with the filters i already mentioned on my above post)

BTW, your encode's duration is 27s 40ms... (you don't seem a noob or are you?- or just joking?)

I found the program and I will try it. OR maybe, later on, I will upload a longer sample for you to try because I'd like really to understand while the video part stops during playing.

No, i'm not a noob or joking with you, but I'm a newbie and it's not easy to learn all this stuff all at once. ;)

[rica]

Btw i gave it a go with NeroShowTime with your sample, it gives "file reading error" in two seconds. This is Nero's problem.

[Emulgator]

I was just comparing what I could get out of my purchased PowerDirector 7 Build 2519
(full version) vs. seeing the sample file in post #5.

Using PD7 on a 3.16GHz T7600G CPU (unfortunately I got a non CUDA-enabled machine)
I did not even come close to the picture quality shown in the sample.
Poor picture, blocks in dark areas all over the place even at wealthy bitrates.
Do CUDA algorithms fare so much better compared to CPU-only algorithms ?

I did expect to be much slower with PD7 on my system, but not so much blockier.
Bitrates were around 15.5Mbps, so comparable to the 16Mbps of the sample.
To me x264 provided much better results already with half the bitrate
and with an Avisynth Addgrain-frontend even my darkest HDV 1080/25i stage shots
after x264 encoding looked good and smooth enough,
even in dark areas and gradients (stage lighting, haze).

Furthermore the Format Info (MediaInfo 0.7.12) didn't match.
My PD7 output was flagged as "MPEG-TS",
rica's sample as "BDAV", Format/Info:"BluRay"
My PD7 Format/Profile: High@L4.0
rica's sample as High@L4.1
One conclusion: The encoder version which was used
to produce to encode the mentioned #5 sample
has nothing to do with the PD7 build 2519 which is on shelf.

Or the CUDA thing works wonders and enables a higher Level setting (which is not user-definable in PD7) as well.
Or could it be that the mentioned sample (which looks really great)
is unintentionally a straight rip becauce it may have been remuxed only ? (not meaning to offend anyone...)

[rica]

...is unintentionally a straight rip becauce it may have been remuxed only ? (not meaning to offend anyone...)

I can upload a cut from the original if you need...

[STaRGaZeR]

I can upload a cut from the original if you need...

It would be nice if you upload the same cut as the sample so we can compare.

[rica]

It would be nice if you upload the same cut as the sample so we can compare.

Here it is:

http://rs422.rapidshare.com/files/218647862/00001_cut.rar


_ _ _ _ _ _

[Betsy25]

Ask every woman in town, quality is better than quantity, and slower is better than faster.:o

[Emulgator]

After looking at the source from post#60:
Still I wonder: Beside the format infos even the flagged max. bitrate of the source (from post #60)
and the sample (from post#5) are identical, 35.5Mbps.

The footprint of PowerDir7 CPU encoder is different from sample again,
outputs m2ts flagged as max. 40Mbps (not user-tunable). Hm.
But anyway, many thanks, rica.

[STaRGaZeR]

Yep, they look exactly the same. Are you sure that the first sample is the output of Power Director? And if so, are you sure that it has done anything to the source image? Maybe someone with enough knowledge (Dark Shikari?) could analyze both side by side to determine it?

[rica]

Yep, they look exactly the same. Are you sure that the first sample is the output of Power Director? And if so, are you sure that it has done anything to the source image? Maybe someone with enough knowledge (Dark Shikari?) could analyze both side by side to determine it?

There is no user defined settings in PD; and the source bitrate and the encode bitrate are very close to each other. (in this sample)

You can check out with mediainfo.

Here is the original:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1531/originalg.th.png (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=originalg.png)

And here is the re-encode:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5707/encode.th.png (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=encode.png)

[STaRGaZeR]

I did check MediaInfo. Unfortunately that doesn't tell us anything. The samples have different sizes, are not of the same zone (only the beginning), etc. On top of that, they look exactly the same to me.

You can use your cut of the original, and encode that same sample with PD to see what's happening. Same ref frames, same everything... except the "Bit rate" reported by MediaInfo. I don't know how it calculates that, maybe it does file size/duration, which will give different numbers for the two different samples because of the lenght. There's something fishy here. Without analizing them I'd say PD didn't touch the original stream.

[CruNcher]

There is no user defined settings in PD; and the source bitrate and the encode bitrate are very close to each other. (in this sample)

You can check out with mediainfo.

Here is the original:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1531/originalg.th.png (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=originalg.png)

And here is the re-encode:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5707/encode.th.png (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=encode.png)

There are you have to use a custom Profile and you get access to it's settings (but you can't set all the options like you see in Nvidias Encoder screen Cyberlink decided it's enough for the task both Encoder share the same range of options that you can change) that's how i do my 3 mbit tests, though Nvidias Bitrate target precision is very far away compared to Cyberlinks Encoder it can fluctuate a lot from the Target you had in mind (but even then you can see that Nvidias Encoder is still much better visually, though this behavior is very unusual for H.264).
Also the custom setting is buggy it can happen that it overrides your preset settings if you try to edit them again with 0 values and on Encoding crashes then (really bad coded) :P so unfortunately you have to recreate a new preset each encode if you want to change a options value or PowerDirector would Crash if you try to edit it on the next encode :). Though you have no access to things like Reference Frames or Partitioning just very basic stuff see screenshot bellow the rest are hardcoded defaults except the Profile that is set by the Level specification so in the case bellow it would be High L3.1.

http://s11.directupload.net/images/090409/rd5nlzml.png

btw the I frame count was 30 after pushing edit it was set to 27 very buggy this whole thing ;)

[HouseCat]

Any ATI users tried this yet?

[deekey777]

"Tuned for high bitrate" is a euphemism for "sucks."

I'm playing with Cyberlink's MediaShow Espresso (edit: Trial!): There is no way to set bitrates. You can switch between different profiles, but no way to set bitrates or size.
And I believe, that Cyberlink is afraid, that bad pirates could use MSE for Blu-ray rips, so there is no 1280x720, if you want to use your own H.264 profile.

Oh yeah, converted videos have high bitrates (iPhone videos with upto 2 mbit/s).


Cyberlink MediaShow Espresso GPGPU Performance (http://www.legitreviews.com/article/978/1/)

[CruNcher]

yeah it's funny how they restrict the stuff even if you try to edit the custom profile manualy and force 720p you end up with a 480p encode :P only WMV can be transcoded to 720p so silly
but all Nvidia Cuda based Encoder except Badaboom (own Engine) are restricted in some way or another currently, wonder when some absolutely non restricted fully configurable encoder based on nvcuvenc.dll comes out :P

[Kurtnoise]

MSE tools-like are not targeted for advanced users...So, it's quite normal to have such restrictions imo.

Anyway iirc, if you want 720p, you have to use the PS3 profiles (in MSE).

[CruNcher]

didn't tried that yet thx Kurtnoise i see the 720p AVC now :) though you can't still change bitrate :( but yeah made for the AVG joe, though one thing i really like is their GUI work (started with PowerDirector 7 and PowerDVD 9 it's once again superb and fits perfectly aside to the new productline very nice and user friendly if you compare it for example against Nero Move It's GUI disaster :)
MeGUI with that GUI would rock for AVG Joes and for the Pros being able to get the Advanced features blended in if necessary (Dreams)

PS3 720p Profile:

Allgemein
ID : 0
Vollständiger Name : C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Administrator\Eigene Dateien\Eigene Videos\parkrunps3.m2ts
Format : MPEG-TS
Dateigröße : 30,1 MiB
Dauer : 19s 520ms
Gesamte Bitrate : 12,9 Mbps
maximale Gesamtbitrate : 40,0 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menü-ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format-Profil : High@L4.0
Format-Einstellungen für CABAC : Ja
Format-Einstellungen für ReFrame : 2 frames
Dauer : 19s 480ms
Bitrate : 11,8 Mbps
Breite : 1 280 Pixel
Höhe : 720 Pixel
Bildseitenverhältnis : 16/9
Bildwiederholungsrate : 25,000 FPS
Auflösung : 24 bits
Colorimetrie : 4:2:0
Scantyp : progressiv
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.511
Stream-Größe : 27,4 MiB (91%)

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menü-ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Dauer : 19s 520ms
Bitraten-Modus : konstant
Bitrate : 256 Kbps
Kanäle : 2 Kanäle
Kanal-Positionen : L R
Samplingrate : 48,0 KHz
Video Verzögerung : 8ms
Stream-Größe : 610 KiB (2%)

11,8 mbps jesus ;)


Youtube 720p Profile:

Allgemein
Vollständiger Name : C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Administrator\Eigene Dateien\Eigene Videos\parkrunyoutube.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format-Profil : Sony PSP
Codec-ID : MSNV
Dateigröße : 5,10 MiB
Dauer : 19s 597ms
Gesamte Bitrate : 2 182 Kbps
Kodierungs-Datum : UTC 2009-06-01 10:11:55
Tagging-Datum : UTC 2009-06-01 10:11:55

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format-Profil : Main@L3.1
Format-Einstellungen für CABAC : Ja
Format-Einstellungen für ReFrame : 1 frame
Codec-ID : avc1
Codec-ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Dauer : 19s 586ms
Bitraten-Modus : variabel
Bitrate : 2 176 Kbps
Breite : 1 280 Pixel
Höhe : 720 Pixel
Bildseitenverhältnis : 16/9
Modus der Bildwiederholungsrate : konstant
Bildwiederholungsrate : 29,970 FPS
Auflösung : 24 bits
Colorimetrie : 4:2:0
Scantyp : progressiv
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.079
Stream-Größe : 5,08 MiB (100%)
Sprache : Englisch
Kodierungs-Datum : UTC 2009-06-01 10:11:55
Tagging-Datum : UTC 2009-06-01 10:11:55

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format-Version : Version 4
Format-Profil : LC
Format-Einstellungen für SBR : Nein
Codec-ID : 40
Dauer : 19s 597ms
Bitraten-Modus : konstant
Bitrate : 5 857 bps
nominale Bitrate : 256 Kbps
Kanäle : 2 Kanäle
Kanal-Positionen : L R
Samplingrate : 44,1 KHz
Auflösung : 16 bits
Stream-Größe : 14,0 KiB (0%)
Sprache : Englisch
Kodierungs-Datum : UTC 2009-06-01 10:11:55
Tagging-Datum : UTC 2009-06-01 10:11:55

yep that's not bad ok no High Profile whyever and Video bitrate a tad to low therefore Audio Bitrate to high imho (would have wished for 2872 kbps High Profile Video and AAC LC 128 kbps Audio) (Youtube supports it) though the Visual Quality is awfull short gop pulsing like hell not comparable anywhere with x264 and AutoVaq

WOW the thumbnail scaling via the slider bellow inside the main interface is really smoooooth it instantly changes the size that's damn nice :)

PSP only 480x res they should know that the newer firmware supports full SD :(


All in all not bad but still some quirks and the HVS efficiency is nowhere near x264 the way it's setup and with missing Psy features :(

Once again the Avg Joe consumer gets a Perfect Designed GUI and usability but in the background a awfull working (technology outdated) Core :(

[Kurtnoise]

I dream all the nights to build a gorgeous GUI based on SL3 & WPF...:cool:


btw, did you test MSE w/ any CUDA/Stream capable GC using acceleration material ? I did it w/ an ATI 4850 and I was quite disappointing...

[deekey777]

I don't understand it:
When I convert a true Blu-ray sample (1080p24) to 1920x1080 (PS3), I get an interlaced video (1080i25). But when I convert it to 1280x720 (PS3), it's progressive (720p25). 720x576 is interlaced again.

But the real gag ist: When I convert a 720p50 video, I get this: http://rapidshare.de/files/47354323/EinsFestival_HD_Kir_Royal_20080323_190838__1.mp4.html

Actually it doesn't matter, if it's 1080i50 or 720p50, the result is the same (regardless of profile).

[CruNcher]

@ Kurtnoise
yep i tried it but i made no speed test failing in this test means it isn't efficient enough for me anyways but still Nvidias Encoder Visual Quality is better (more stable) then Cyberlinks that get used when you disable CUDA :) very funny is that in PowerDirector 7 Nvidias Encoder fails to hit the bitrate straight and here in MSE it's Cyberlinks that fails, assuming that it targets 3000 kbps for the Youtube 720p profile (which still doesn't make perfect sense with the 265 kbps Audio but that's a subjective thing to everyone his own, myself wouldn't have Designed it that way ;) )
The Main Profile thing seems to be a decision for highest Device interoperability though my point on that is Devices that don't support High Profile shouldn't have been coming out in the first Place as HD Devices in 2009 :P and yes i also say that to the Zune HD it is a big fail in my eyes if it doesn't support High Profile the same fail as with Qpel support back in ASP days and i never gonna understand these fail decisions of this industry (on the other side sure you can make more money that way selling such stuff later as a new better product, but i find this is customer fooling).


I dream all the nights to build a gorgeous GUI based on SL3 & WPF...


Yeah sounds nice and it shouldn't be that hard to Design a nice Gui with the Expression Designer and package it around MeGUI shouldn't it ? , though the way Meguis tasks work currently would need to be adapted to the GUI, just putting a nice Skin around the current Megui would be nice but without improving the whole tasks order and usability pretty useless on the other hand. I personaly can live without a nice Skin if it doesn't improve my tasks efficiency :P that's also why i like Cyberlinks current GUI's they not only for Show they are Designed for usability in mind ok that alone can't rescue their products completely if they fail like they currently do ;) (on the important Main CORE Background stuff you see in the end the result off, the reason the user started the application in the first place)

Currently i prefer to work on the CMD and with Editplus instead of working with Megui :D i find i can solve tasks faster that way then being bound to that awful GUI (also i never liked the response time of the MeGUI GUI) ;)

[Kurtnoise]

The Main Profile thing seems to be a decision for highest Device interoperability though my point on that is Devices that don't support High Profile shouldn't have been coming out in the first Place as HD Devices in 2009 :P
by devices, you mean portable or standalone ? coz for the 1st ones, MP is clearly sufficient and HP mainly overkill imo...

[CruNcher]

ehh portable with HDMI output that support only MAIN are flawed decisions (like the Zune HD) surely im not talking about portable devices that have a mini screen and no possibility to be connected to a HD Ready display, why should they playback 720p anyways ;)
The only reason would be avoiding TRANSCODING and that is the other thing i hate about this flawed industry it's still presenting workarounds instead of getting better (we have 2009) @ delivering full potential devices but yeah it's nice to present 500 different transcoding solutions to make money with and keeping that industry alive saving yourself some money not to lose the ability to buy you another ferrari model the next year, instead of finally invest that money into no transcoding @ all requirements chips. Profile Transcoding is a FLAW a really big FLAW i wouldn't never have thought that by now we would have these problems :(
But everything from the Qpel disaster seems to repeat itself only that it is now the MAIN/HIGH Profile thing i really really hope @ last in 2010 we wont have MAIN profile only chips anymore in any DEVICE

I even have my DVD SD stuff in High Profile because i can see the difference and it's allready a pain transcoding this all the time to watch on the PSP into Main Profile :( (instead of just copying it over)

And belive me have read Zune HD only supports Main Profile almost made me to vomit directly on the floor the disaster continues (and you can question yourself how the Quality of the Main Profile H.264 stuff versus the Advanced Profile Vc-1 stuff will be)