Audio Only AVCHD Disc Authouring

[keysersose]

I have a TrueHD audio file as well as the AC3 core from it..

What I want is the audio only in AVCHD using a DVD5 - stick the disc in a BR player press play and get the TrueHD track to play - and dont want to have to fire up the projector..

Can I do this using just TSMuxer?

[deank]

Not directly, but it is really easy to do it. You need video stream to achieve what you need.

I already did this and if you're familiar with avisynth/x264 I can tell you how to do it - if not - just give me the length of the longest audio-track you expect to use and I'll send you one small AVC video stream to use :)

Dean

[keysersose]

great Thanks Dean!

I imagine longest track would be 90 minutes but of course will always vary disc by disc I make..

have never used avisynth/x264 so an email would be great..


Thank-you..

:)

[deank]

I'd rather post it here, so other people can use it too.

Here is 2 hours (120 mins) blank 720x480p AVC video @24fps.

Download it - black_h264_video.rar (http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/black_h264_video.rar) - it is just 31KB, but unpacked is about 5MB.

Use it with tsmuxer and add your audio tracks, then tsmuxer will generate the output you need, cutting video to audio track length.

Let me know if it works for you :)

Dean

[keysersose]

wow Nice! especially Tsmuxer doing the sizing..!!

pretty impressive what you guys do around here I must say..

:) :)

THANKS!

[deank]

I may be wrong about tsmuxer cutting the video to audio length - it could be the reverse :)

So you may need to put CUT-END in Split&Cut in tsmuxer.

[deank]

I was thinking...

For all those audiophiles out there :) I can create a small application audioBD and it will accept DD-AC3/LPCM/DTS-*/DD-TrueHD audio streams and will produce a simple BD structure to be used in BD players for listening to HiDef audio tracks. If there is interest, further I can implement playlists and option to have multiple audio tracks. :)

Dean

[keysersose]

I was thinking...

For all those audiophiles out there :) I can create a small application audioBD and it will accept DD-AC3/LPCM/DTS-*/DD-TrueHD audio streams and will produce a simple BD structure to be used in BD players for listening to HiDef audio tracks. If there is interest, further I can implement playlists and option to have multiple audio tracks. :)

Dean

I would imagine there would be LOTS of interest - PLEASE then include MLP tracks as one of the audio stream choices!!

[schlaufer]

Deank, just a suggestion: would it be much work to include chapterlists? I guess not, if you are passing it to tsmuxer.

[deank]

I don't really know what MPL files are.

@schlaufer: Chapters for audio tracks?

Well... thinking of concerts (as I have some) it might be a good idea to set chapter marks at each song start... right?

[turbojet]

MLP files (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridian_Lossless_Packing) are only found in DVD-Audio as far as I know. BD equivalent is TrueHD.

Chapters would definitely help but not the easiest thing to do, eac3to is probably the only way to really get the info.

[schlaufer]

Chapters may come various sources, in the worst case entered by hand ;)

Yes, I mean chapter marks at the beginning of each new song, so one can create an HD Audio DVD (or even CDs in case of DD5.1/DTS) from a concert/music movie.

[deank]

Can someone provide a MPL sample? And do such files need special processing to get them to AC3 or (easier) to PCM if they are PPCM already?

Bottom line is: how to get them to AVCHD/BD compatible format.

And about chapters and playlists: let's move forward small steps at a time :) Let's first create playable BD discs and then add other options.

[keysersose]

MLP = Meridian Lossless Packing - they are about 1/2 the size of the wave files..

you can use EAC3to to convert MLP to either:

1-single 6 ch wave file
2- 6 mono waves
3-extract the AC3 core (DD5.1)

but we audiophiles want only the LOSSLESS tracks..

I can make you single song DVD-A disc as an ISO file or just a single MLP file - whatever you prefer..

you can use a program called DVD-A Explorer (Search here) to extract the MLP file from the DVD-A disc (you open the IFO file found in the Audio_TS folder)

[keysersose]

I'd rather post it here, so other people can use it too.

Here is 2 hours (120 mins) blank 720x480p AVC video @24fps.

Download it - black_h264_video.rar (http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/black_h264_video.rar) - it is just 31KB, but unpacked is about 5MB.

Use it with tsmuxer and add your audio tracks, then tsmuxer will generate the output you need, cutting video to audio track length.

Let me know if it works for you :)

Dean


Yup Works Great! made a BD using the AC3 core from a DVD-A disc - you need to set the cut option to the album length and disc plays for the length you set..

Now just need to add those MLP files..;)

Thanks

[keysersose]

I just made an avchd disc from the MLP files!

Used EAC3to to convert the MLP file to a single 6 channel wave file..downside is that the Linear PCM is roughly twice the size of the compacted MLP files..

my album was originally 24/96 kHz and only 34 minutes long - the avchd disc size is 3.7 GB and I didnt include a core AC3 track - looks like most albums will then need a dvd9..:(

I could downsample the waves to 48 kHz, but refuse to drop the quality..

The bonus though is that this method overcomes the watermark!!!!

The ideal solution here would be to encode the MLP/Waves to TrueHD and make the AVCHD with a TrueHD track and add an optional AC3 or DTS core....

[deank]

How did you create the single PCM file and was it usable in tsmuxer?

I managed to convert the MPL sample to AC3.

I tried to convert it to PCM but then it needed headers (pcm2tsmu) and then tsmuxer accepted it.

My PS3 plays the LPCM 5.1 but I can listen to it in stereo only, because my receiver is connected with optical and only bitstream is available so I can't test it.

Another question:

How can I use the .thd output from eac3to?


eac3to.exe d:\01MLP.mlp test.thd

TrueHD, 5.1 channels, 96khz
Creating file "test.thd"...
eac3to processing took 9 seconds.
Done.

[keysersose]

How did you create the single PCM file and was it usable in tsmuxer?

eac3to.exe 01mlp.mlp 01mlp.wav

generates a single 5.1 channel file which Tsmuxer sees as a LPCM file and plays and displays as Linear PCM on the PS3..


I managed to convert the MPL sample to AC3.

I tried to convert it to PCM but then it needed headers (pcm2tsmu) and then tsmuxer accepted it.


guess it should be .WAV not pcm..


My PS3 plays the LPCM 5.1 but I can listen to it in stereo only, because my receiver is connected with optical and only bitstream is available so I can't test it.


ok I see - assume you could see and play the DD (ac3) 5.1 stream though?

Another question:

How can I use the .thd output from eac3to?


eac3to.exe d:\01MLP.mlp test.thd

TrueHD, 5.1 channels, 96khz
Creating file "test.thd"...
eac3to processing took 9 seconds.
Done.
[/QUOTE]

My! That looks simple enough - is there some mandatory requirement that the AVCHD needs a core AC3 stream as well?

[keysersose]

How can I use the .thd output from eac3to?


eac3to.exe d:\01MLP.mlp test.thd

TrueHD, 5.1 channels, 96khz
Creating file "test.thd"...
eac3to processing took 9 seconds.
Done.


I just tried this on the album track - eac3to step was OK but TSMuxer doesnt recognize the file

"can't detect stream type"

[tebasuna51]

I think you can't convert mlp to thd:

eac3to v3.14
command line: eac3to "God Save The Queen.mlp" "God Save The Queen.thd"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MLP, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 96khz
This audio conversion is not supported. <ERROR>

[keysersose]

I think you can't convert mlp to thd:

eac3to v3.14
command line: eac3to "God Save The Queen.mlp" "God Save The Queen.thd"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MLP, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 96khz
This audio conversion is not supported. <ERROR>

That's correct - however the original file Dean used was a THD file named as MLP - EAC3 is seeing it as a THD file but whatever it does to the output isn't liked by Tsmuxer

[tebasuna51]

If you have a thd you can obtain a thd with ac3 core accepted by TsMuxer with:

eac3to input.thd output.thd+ac3

[keysersose]

If you have a thd you can obtain a thd with ac3 core accepted by TsMuxer with:

eac3to input.thd output.thd+ac3


Thanks - someone else told me same thing - I am getting clipping errors (no idea why) if the ac3 core stays as 5.1..

Looks like it will work using 16 bit and downmixed to stereo..

:)

[deank]

It doesn't work because of the 96khz I guess


D:\tools>eac3to.exe d:\01MLP.mlp test.thd+ac3
TrueHD, 5.1 channels, 96khz
Decoding with libav/ffmpeg...
Encoding AC3 <640kbps> with libAften...
invalid sample rate
Initialization of the AC3 encoder failed.
Aborted at file position 262144.

Other settings will give

The thd ac3 joiner doesn't have the correct connections.
Aborted at file position 262144.

but

D:\tools>eac3to.exe d:\01MLP.mlp test.thd

works. It's that I don't know what to do with the .thd file to use it in BD (m2ts).

thd->thd+ac3:

D:\tools>eac3to.exe test.thd out.thd+ac3 -resampleto48000
TrueHD, 5.1 channels, 96khz
Decoding with libav/ffmpeg...
Resampling to 48khz...
Encoding AC3 <640kbps> with libAften...
Creating file "out.thd+ac3"...
Clipping detected, a 2nd pass will be necessary.
libav End of stream indicated
The original audio track has a constant bit depth of 24 bits.
The processed audio track has a constant bit depth of 64 bits.
Starting 2nd pass...
Decoding with libav/ffmpeg...
Resampling to 48khz...
Encoding AC3 <640kbps> with libAften...
The thd ac3 joiner doesn't have the correct connections.
Aborted at file position 262144.

D:\tools>

[tebasuna51]

Maybe if you let eac3to do all the job:

eac3to v3.14
command line: eac3to test.thd test.thd+ac3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TrueHD, 7.1 channels, 96khz
AC3 encoding doesn't support back channels. Will mix them into the surround.
AC3 encoding doesn't support this samplerate. Will resample to 48khz.
Decoding with libav/ffmpeg...
Remapping channels...
Resampling to 48khz...
Mixing surround channels...
Encoding AC3 <640kbps> with libAften...
Creating file "Test.thd+ac3"...
The original audio track has a constant bit depth of 24 bits.
The processed audio track has a constant bit depth of 64 bits.
eac3to processing took 4 seconds.
Done.

[deank]

It doesn't work... Probably I don't have some decoder/encoder installed:

D:\tools>eac3to.exe test.thd out.thd+ac3
TrueHD, 5.1 channels, 96khz
Decoding with libav/ffmpeg...
Encoding AC3 <640kbps> with libAften...
invalid sample rate
Initialization of the AC3 encoder failed.
Aborted at file position 262144.

And before all this... what program should I use to obtain real information about channels/sampling rate/duration/endianess with audio files. mediainfo is no good.

[tebasuna51]

I'm using libav/ffmpeg, maybe eac3to version?

Info about 'channels/sampling rate' is fine with eac3to.
'duration' is a big problem with VBR and lossles formats. With CBR (ac3, dts) is easy if you know the bitrate and the file size, also easy with wav/lpcm.
'endianess', for what you need that? (big for lpcm, little for wav/raw)

[deank]

I use eac3to 3.14 for testing.

I can't rely on file extension for endianness.

Basically I need means to process audio files (ac3/dts/pcm/lpcm/mpl), obtain their properties and pass (after conversion if needed) to tsmuxer to get m2ts file to use in BD/AVCHD.

[rack04]

Does this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1223582#post1223582) post by Madshi help you at all?

[deank]

No. Those values are when streams are already muxed into m2ts. I needed information about the streams before using them.

[keysersose]

Thanks - someone else told me same thing - I am getting clipping errors (no idea why) if the ac3 core stays as 5.1..

Looks like it will work using 16 bit and downmixed to stereo..

:)

darn - doesn't work with a stereo AC3 core either..

on playback there is no audio stream seen or playing..

[keysersose]

unbelievable - I just installed ver 1.8.30 of TSMuxerGUI - remade the disc using the stereo AC3 core and disc plays fine!

plays the 5.1 Dolby TrueHD track at 96kHz - I do not see any other audio streams ( I thought there would be a stereo track)

code used was:

eac3to album.thd album.thd+ac3 -resampleTo48000 448 -down16 -down2

[keysersose]

tried a few ways but couldnt get the chapter stops to be usable on the disc - just have one long Chapter 1..

any suggestions?

[tebasuna51]

I can't rely on file extension for endianness..
Wav files are not only a extension is a well defined container than can contain PCM audio and other compressed streams.

LPCM is raw data without any header then you must rely in the extracter tool. Don't exist a rely method to know the info from a lpcm file.

Basically I need means to process audio files (ac3/dts/pcm/lpcm/mpl), obtain their properties and pass (after conversion if needed) to tsmuxer to get m2ts file to use in BD/AVCHD.

No problem with ac3/dts/wav/w64 files.
Not possible with lpcm files
With mlp you can decode to wav/w64 files (the conversion to thd isn't possible until a free thd encoder)

You can use any code in my little tool LeeAudBi03b.7z (http://www.sendspace.com/file/q99ok3)

or in source code of NicAudio in my signature.

Both read headers in ac3/dts/wav/w64 files to know the data you need.

[odin24]

I was thinking...

For all those audiophiles out there :) I can create a small application audioBD and it will accept DD-AC3/LPCM/DTS-*/DD-TrueHD audio streams and will produce a simple BD structure to be used in BD players for listening to HiDef audio tracks. If there is interest, further I can implement playlists and option to have multiple audio tracks. :)

Dean

I have often thought about doing this myself... not develop an app, just making an audioBD. I hope you do create something, my only concern is that chapters can be incorporated, and that the disc automatically starts upon insertion... this probably won't be an issue since auto-playback is implemented on tsMuxeR structures.

Can't wait to see what you come up with. Thanks in advance.

[keysersose]

I have often thought about doing this myself... not develop an app, just making an audioBD. I hope you do create something, my only concern is that chapters can be incorporated, and that the disc automatically starts upon insertion... this probably won't be an issue since auto-playback is implemented on tsMuxeR structures.

Can't wait to see what you come up with. Thanks in advance.


The disc will auto start - so no need to fire up your projector

lack of chapters is a big downer - with music, you want to be able to skip over a song you may not like..real shame because TSMuxer is an amazing product because it;s super easy to use and ideal for these audio only apps..

[deank]

Well you can add chapters in tsmuxer before processing your files.

[keysersose]

Well you can add chapters in tsmuxer before processing your files.

hmmm.. I tried this a few different ways with no luck

originally I made a cue file and copied this into the custom chapters box in TSMuxer:

00:00:00:00
00:03:33:32
00:06:49:05
00:09:21:65
00:13:00:24
00:16:17:42
00:18:30:57
00:22:50:42
00:26:38:62
00:29:44:45

Dont know what I am doing wrong..

[odin24]

Your chapters should look like this;

00:00:00.000

not

00:00:00:00

[deank]

use HH:MM:SS or HH:MM:SS.MLS format...

00:00:00.000
00:03:33.320
00:06:49.050
00:09:21.650
00:13:00.240
00:16:17.420
00:18:30.570
00:22:50.420
00:26:38.620
00:29:44.450

[keysersose]

wow that was an easy fix!

Thanks guys!!!!

Looks like I'll be busy converting my hires audio collection..:)

[evdberg]

Regarding MLP, as far as I know the difference between MLP and TrueHD is just the header. The data itself is exactly the same. So it should be possible to 'convert' MLP to TrueHD.

[Golgot13]

Regarding MLP, as far as I know the difference between MLP and TrueHD is just the header. The data itself is exactly the same. So it should be possible to 'convert' MLP to TrueHD.

MLP and TrueHD are exaclty same.
Only there are on TrueHD file some data information (room size, sort of audio:music,...; ..)

ScenaristBD/BluPrint/DSA see MLP file like TrueHD audio track ;)

[nwg]

Using Evodemux with HD DVD's, it will say MLP for a TrueHD stream (Blade Runner HD-DVD for example).

[keysersose]

I'm using the PS3 - There are 3 audio streams on the disc I made - AC3 2.0, AC35.1 and 5.1 TrueHD..

I have 3 issues with my disc:

1-Chapters - they are there - when I advance to the next chapter the info screen blanks out - it takes about 3 seconds to advance and the next song starts playing..

2-regardless of the authoring sequence the disc defaults to and starts playing the AC3 5.1 track - I want the default to be the THD one..

3-you can choose between bitstreaming the tracks to your receiver or let the PS3 convert to LPCM and send that to your receiver. In LPCM mode I can choose only the THD or DD5.1 - no stereo track - in bitstream mode, the PS3 sees only the DD2.0 or DD5.1 - doesnt see the THD stream..the obvious preference would be to see and access all 3 streams regardless of whether you bitstream or convert to LPCM..

[keysersose]

To Dean,

have you had a chance to look further into doing a program for this?

[deank]

I'm using the PS3 - There are 3 audio streams on the disc I made - AC3 2.0, AC35.1 and 5.1 TrueHD..

2-regardless of the authoring sequence the disc defaults to and starts playing the AC3 5.1 track - I want the default to be the THD one..

I think I found a setting in mpls files that allow forcing the higher-quality stream to be first, but I'm still reading.

[keysersose]

I think I found a setting in mpls files that allow forcing the higher-quality stream to be first, but I'm still reading.


I wonder if this specific issue can be addressed with either TSMuxer or TsRemux? IOW let your program create the various audio streams and instruct TSMUxer allow you to mark the various streams as Audio1, 2, 3 and default to 1..

[deank]

These programs cannot control stream preference.

I decided to include audioBD in multiAVCHD, instead of creating another application - it becomes difficult to follow/fix bugs in 3 or 4 programs.

I'll post back when I have more progress.

[keysersose]

These programs cannot control stream preference.

I decided to include audioBD in multiAVCHD, instead of creating another application - it becomes difficult to follow/fix bugs in 3 or 4 programs.

I'll post back when I have more progress.

Thanks Dean - that will be great! - am looking forward to trying it out!

Let me know if you want me to do any beta testing for you