Problem with DVD Shrink menu VOB and AutoGK.

[Quest]

I've been trying for 2 days to find a solution but no go.

I use DVD Shrink to rip DVDs I've created from recording some TV shows onto DVDs with my DVD recorder. My DVD Recorder allows me to type in text, etc., in the menu and so there is quite a bit of information there that is absolutely not present in the DVD recordings themselves. So I also have ripped the main DVD menu so that it appears as a VOB in the ripped folder.

AutoGK is fine with all the other VOBs. As long as I select the first main VOB, AutoGK knows to work with all of them. However, when I select the menu VOB as the starting point, I get the error: "bad index file"

I seem to remember that AutoGK might have issues with DVD Shrink but can't find any reference anywhere at this time. I absolutely don't like and can't use the very user-unfriendly DVD Decypter (very user-unfriendly _to_me_ esp. when compared to DVD Shrink's very easy approach where you can see and pick and choose exactly what you want to rip).

How can I fix things so that I get the entire episode _plus_ the menu properly in AutoGK with DVD Shrink rips

p.s., I've tried merging the VOBs, re-encoding the AVIs to same frame rate, etc., etc., etc., but absolutely nothing works. So if I can fix it right from the get-go, at the ripping point, that would save a lot of hassle.

Thanks.

[BigDid]

I've been trying for 2 days to find a solution but no go.

I use DVD Shrink to rip DVDs I've created from recording some TV shows onto DVDs with my DVD recorder. My DVD Recorder allows me to type in text, etc., in the menu and so there is quite a bit of information there that is absolutely not present in the DVD recordings themselves. So I also have ripped the main DVD menu so that it appears as a VOB in the ripped folder.

AutoGK is fine with all the other VOBs. As long as I select the first main VOB, AutoGK knows to work with all of them. However, when I select the menu VOB as the starting point, I get the error: "bad index file"
Hi,

I don't use DVD Shrink (before AGK) that way, so it is a bit confusing

1/ Rip (from DVD Shrink) how?
I use(d) dvd-decrypter in ifo mode and I still use Dvd-shrink in re-author mode (when having audio synch problems) to get a movie structure ready for AGK to encode.

I seem to remember that AutoGK might have issues with DVD Shrink but can't find any reference anywhere at this time. I absolutely don't like and can't use the very user-unfriendly DVD Decypter (very user-unfriendly _to_me_ esp. when compared to DVD Shrink's very easy approach where you can see and pick and choose exactly what you want to rip).

How can I fix things so that I get the entire episode _plus_ the menu properly in AutoGK with DVD Shrink rips

2/Again how do you proceed with DVDshrink..

p.s., I've tried merging the VOBs, re-encoding the AVIs to same frame rate, etc., etc., etc., but absolutely nothing works. So if I can fix it right from the get-go, at the ripping point, that would save a lot of hassle.
This seems more a DVDShrink problem and/or a ripping problem than an AutoGK problem; see FAQ n°1
1. Input to AutoGK
AutoGK accepts input files with the following extensions: MPG, MPEG, VOB, VRO, M2V, DAT, IFO, TS, TP, TRP, M2T, AVI. In terms of formats it suppors mpeg1, mpeg2, transport streams, vobs from DVDs and practically any codec in AVI file. For restriction on AVI input see question 5.12. One special mode that AutoGK has starting from version 2.15 is IFO file input that replaced "DVD mode" from older version. Now all you have to do is to point AutoGK to IFO file and it will pick up vobs that has the same VTS number (i.e. VTS_??_?.vob files, so you can't point it to global video_ts.ifo file)

or tutorial:
#
IFO file is used when you have a DVD like directory that contains IFO file and corresponding VOB files. IFO file is parsed and choice of audio streams and subtitles is presented to the user. If IFO file contains multiple PGCs (program chains) or angles then user will be asked to confirm which ones contained in the vobset (unless the name of VOB file contain this information already). Note that AutoGK cannot work properly on a vobset that still has multiple angles/program chains, so make sure to use appropriate tools to prepare the vobset. Another thing to remember is that AutoGK only works on unencrypted VOB files.
#
MPG, MPEG, VOB, VRO, M2V, M1V, DAT files are expected to have MPEG1/MPEG2 video inside. Only information about audio type (but not language in case of VOBs) is available for these types of files.

Outside these inputs, it is (IMO) the responsability of the user to pre-process other inputs or form of inputs... so that AGK can encode properly.

The may be work-arounds from series users having problems with multiples PGC or angles; but I don't AGK series, so I will let qualified people contribute (Manono?)

Did

[Quest]

Hi,

I don't use DVD Shrink (before AGK) that way, so it is a bit confusing

1/ Rip (from DVD Shrink) how?
I use(d) dvd-decrypter in ifo mode and I still use Dvd-shrink in re-author mode (when having audio synch problems) to get a movie structure ready for AGK to encode.

You rip the entire thing with DVD Decrypter and _then_ work with the VOB files on your hdd? That sounds interesting. Perhaps that might be a solution.

A lot of the DVDs I've created with my DVD Recorder have become corrupted. Yet data discs containing XviD AVIs all are perfectly fine. (Same thing used to happen with made CDs vs data discs with MP3s. Never any problems with the MP3s but the CDs give up after a while.) So all my valuable VHS collection of years and years that I transferred to DVD will have a better chance of making it if I can fix this menu problem so that they get converted properly with the rest of the VOB files into AVI.

I use DVD Shrink in re-author mode all the time, as well. Never any problem unless I need any of the menus for information purposes to be included in the AVI. I have never managed to get them to be included properly. This attempt this week is longest I've kept at the problem since I'm finding more and more DVDs no longer working so need to back them up by converting them all to XviD AVIs before they're gone. But the menu contains needed information. Perhaps this method will allow me to keep them. I don't care that they are displayed only for a millisecond since the menus are not menus any more. It's the information that's important. Whenever I need to access that information, I'll just freeze the menu frame portion of the avi before letting the AVI resume normal playback.

I have DVD Decrypter so going to try that now.

I'll report back, whatever way this goes ... <g> Thanks.

[Quest]

Well, nothing has worked so far. I got the furthest this time around but with audio synch problems.

I'll try to outline what I'm doing. Hopefully the situation is clear enough. I'm not experienced enough to know where I'm going wrong.

DVDs that I rip with DVD Shrink without menus ... no problem. But when I want to include the menu that I created on my DVD Recorder, that's when there are problems since AutoGK doesn't work with the small menu VOB created by DVD Shrink.

I choose the menu in DVD Shrink when in re-author mode and move it over to the DVD Structure box. I get the usual error about menus not working in the rips which I don't care about because it's the information in the menu that is important. I just need it to be part of the resulting AVI file even if it only last a frame or two.

I grab the "episode" title I need and move that over to the DVD Structure. Then let DVD Shrink do its work. If only DVD Shrink produced ONE VOB there would be no problems <sigh> but it doesn't. I get the usual split VOBs for the main movie and an extra one for the menu (this is even though I ticked off not to split the output VOBs!).

I can load the main VOB into AGK and the output is fine, as always, but nothing gets that extra menu VOB in there.

I tried VOBMerge to create a single VOB with all the movie including the menu, then used IFOEdit to create the missing IFO files, etc. I put that through AGK but I get an error and the resulting AVI has the audio out of synch after a few seconds in. I seem to have accidentally deleted the error message text file so I'll have to go through the motions of what I've been doing again to get the error back. I'll post after work at some point.

Also, another way I went was to open up the merged VOB in VirtualDubMob. It gave me multiple errors saying:
"Anachronistic or discontinuous timestamp found in video stream 0 at byte position ..., from ... to ... ."

So, bottom line. I really need to continue using DVD Shrink, it's just the only ripper that I'm comfortable with when doing this type of thing. But I need output that AGK can handle, which might ideally even be something as simple as a correctly encoded, single VOB.

Hoping that there's a solution ... DVD Shrink and AGK are just so fantastic and 99% of the time they work perfectly together, it's just this one little menu in each of the converted DVDs that I can't do without that is causing problems. I have about 100 DVDs I need to convert to AVI that will need the menus so this is an important thing to figure out.

Thanks. :)

[yetanotherid]

Not having ever done what you're trying to do, I gave it a shot with a menu from a DVD I just ripped to my hard drive. DVD Shrink converted it to ordinary video and AutoGK converted it, so that'd make me wonder if there's something non-standard in the menus your DVD player creates which don't bother DVD Shrink but which AutoGK can't handle.

Those menu vobs... have you tried converting them with another program? Because if other programs fail then it'd point further to the theory that the vob files aren't standard. One option would be to use a DVD authoring program (I use Nero Vision) to make a new DVD out of the existing vob files. If they're DVD compliant it won't convert them again as such, so you won't lose quality, but maybe the resulting output might be something AutoGK can handle. Plus you'd be able to trim the menu vob if it's too long. There's two other programs I often use for difficult conversions (as they're free). One's Super (http://www.erightsoft.net/SUPER.html) and the other's Any Video Converter (http://www.any-video-converter.com/products/for_video_free/). Sometimes one of them will fail converting a difficult file, but usually at least one will manage it.
I know it's the long way around, but if one of them copes with the menu vobs you could convert to an AVI containing lossless video (so you're not losing quality with the extra step) then use AutoGK to convert the AVI to xvid. Both programs will also merge multiple input files into a single output.

As I said, I know that's not a solution as such, but it may be worth trying to see if you can work around the problem.

Other thoughts.... if you used a DVD authoring program such as Nero Vision, could you simply forget your old menus and use it to create new ones?
Super will also output DVD compliant vob files which AutoGK should be able to convert. If it'll handle your problem vob files you could run them all through Super, telling it to copy both the audio and video stream (rather than convert them) and see if the output vobs will then play well with AutoGK. If they do, running them all through Super shouldn't be too long a process. If you try that, select the FFmpeg encoder as it seems to be more successful in copying streams from vob files.

Just some other ideas....

[BigDid]

...
I grab the "episode" title I need and move that over to the DVD Structure. Then let DVD Shrink do its work. If only DVD Shrink produced ONE VOB there would be no problems <sigh> but it doesn't...
Hi,

There is an option in DVDShrink: Pref/Output Files (or something approaching, french menus here)/ uncheck: cuts VOB in 1Gb chunk (or approaching).

Not verified here but you may want to give it a try.

Did

[yetanotherid]

Hi,
There is an option in DVDShrink: Pref/Output Files (or something approaching, french menus here)/ uncheck: cuts VOB in 1Gb chunk (or approaching).
Not verified here but you may want to give it a try.
Did

Unfortunately that won't help.
What that option does is it stops DVD Shrink from splitting all the vobs from a title. Say you rip only the movie from a DVD. You're likely to end up with 4 or 5 1GB vob files. If you open the rip with DVD Shrink and select the option not to split files it'll back them up as one big one.
However if your rip is more than just a movie, say for example a movie with a separate documentary in another title (or in the OP case a menu vob), selecting the above option stops DVD Shrink from splitting the documentary vobs and it stops DVD Shrink from splitting the movie vobs, but it doesn't force it to merge those two new vobs together. They still remain as separate titles.

I've not found a way to get DVD Shrink to merge the vobs from different titles together. I wish it would. It'd be handy at times.

[yetanotherid]

A lot of the DVDs I've created with my DVD Recorder have become corrupted. Yet data discs containing XviD AVIs all are perfectly fine. (Same thing used to happen with made CDs vs data discs with MP3s. Never any problems with the MP3s but the CDs give up after a while.) So all my valuable VHS collection of years and years that I transferred to DVD will have a better chance of making it if I can fix this menu problem so that they get converted properly with the rest of the VOB files into AVI.

I just re-read parts of the thread and hadn't really thought about that until now. For the DVDs created in the DVD recorder to become corrupted while data discs with AVIs have not....

I can't see that being anything to do with the type of disc (video vs data) because it shouldn't matter what's written to the disc in terms of it's longevity. My conclusion would be that for some reason the discs burned by the DVD recorder are very poor quality to begin with. It could be that you're using cheap discs, or it could be that the burner in your recorder doesn't burn a very good quality disc. It could be some combination of both. On the other hand though, assuming you're using the same discs for AVIs, the burner in your PC must be able to burn to them at a higher quality.

So if the purpose of the exercise is only to preserve those discs, and converting to AVI was just a means to an end, I'm thinking it's a solution, but a solution for the wrong reasons. If the above assumption is correct, then by simply copying the DVDs burned with your recorder, using your PC's burner, you should be producing a better quality copy which should last. Especially if you use good quality blanks. By converting to AVI and reburning you're really only doing just that, except you're converting in the process thinking that's the reason for the discs not becoming corrupted when it's really not.

What type of blanks are you using? What type of burner in your PC? and have you ever run burn quality tests on any of the discs immediately after they've been burned?
The whole burn quality and testing subject is just that, a whole other subject, but I suspect that's your real issue. Don't use cheap discs if you want them to last and if your burner's old buy a new one. I can't vouch for them all but the newer Pioneer and Samsung burners are quite good, especially if you use good quality blanks such as Verbatim. They're pretty much all I use as I'm sick of messing about with anything else. Although I bought some Benq blanks to try recently as they were incredibly cheap and they really impressed me. The dye used on the disc isn't considered to be the best quality, but the burn quality was as good as anything the Verbatim blanks give me.
For info on the different dyes used have a read here: VIDEO MEDIA GUIDES -> Blank media quality guide & FAQ (http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/index.htm) with more specific info being here: Blank DVD media quality guide (http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm)

I suspect your problem with MP3 CDs vs data CDs is the same issue. For some reason you're not getting very good quality burns and while your PC's drive is likely to be good at reading poor quality discs, your CD/MP3 player's drive is likely to be far more fussy.

As I said, assuming converting to AVI was just a means to an end, I think it's probably the wrong one, and by copying your dying DVDs while you still can, then reburning them with your PC onto good quality blanks, it will give you a result likely to last just as long as reburning them after converting them to AVI will.

[Quest]

Hi,

There is an option in DVDShrink: Pref/Output Files (or something approaching, french menus here)/ uncheck: cuts VOB in 1Gb chunk (or approaching).

Not verified here but you may want to give it a try.

DidHi, thanks. That's one of the first options I tried. It doesn't do anything re the output. I still get more than one vob, unfortunately.

[Quest]

I just re-read parts of the thread and hadn't really thought about that until now. For the DVDs created in the DVD recorder to become corrupted while data discs with AVIs have not.... I don't know the cause of one or the other, but getting back to the issue of the menus, I suspect that, as put forth in one of the messages, that the DVD Recorder creates menus that are not DVD-compliant so that the resulting ripped VOB can't be handled in any of the ordinary ways. That's the only conclusion I can come up with at this point. When I run the menu VOBs completely by themselves through AGK, I get a "bad index" error which should have alerted me to possible problem to begin with, but all that is just due to lack of experience on my part. But it makes perfect sense, doesn't it? None of this would be a problem otherwise, I suspect.

So, I'm going back to another approach I tried a few days ago, which I left since I ran into some brick walls. Since nothing seems to be working, the quickest and best solution may still lie there if I can figure out how to "standardize" the 2 AVI output files in terms of making the menu AVI have the exact same properties/dimensions of the main video so that I can then append in VirtualDUB.

The DVD menu VOB is handled by my Vegas Video video editor okay. I then converted it to something VirtualDUB could handle with AGK itself, cutting down the size of the frames in AGK. But they're still not the same so the append doesn't work.

I'm attaching a screenshot of the GSpot comparison of both files since I'm out of my depth. I've spent hours googling and trying and googling and trying but just can't get the two AVIs to have the same properties, dimensions. A guide I have re changing the bitrate just isn't doing the job as the resulting file still doesn't match the bitrate of the main video and I just don't know why.

I've circled the two pieces of information in the screenshot that I know will have to be changed, but for all I know there's more to do. But the screenshots hopefully will tell what else needs to be done that I don't know.

Thanks for everyone's help. I know I can't be the only one this is happening to so hopefully if this can be resolved, it'll help others, too with their DVD Recorder VOB to AVI issues.

[FishTank]

use IFOedit, strip movie only, load ifo into agk, crunch away :)
no menu, no problems!

[Quest]

Phew, what a nightmare this has turned out to be! However, I may have found a solution, I don't know yet as the process is in the middle of AGK's processing, which just started.

I've tried a ton of stuff so far. VOBMerge didn't work; the resulting file had audio synch problems once I even figured out how to get a merged VOB <g>. I'm wondering if the second or so of the first file is what throws the rest of the merged VOB off ... I just don't know.

In everything I tried, if I got a merged VOB, audio synch- ... ...

... damn, that damned error just came up _again_ near beginning of AGK processing. Thought for sure all that was in the past ... and like all these damned errors, don't know exactly what it means esp. in terms of fixing. The last time I got this error, the resulting AVI was pretty useless. Audio synch was the main problem there, too, if I remember correctly. I've tried so many things over last few days, errors becoming blurry except for the fact that nothing is working! The error is this one: "A field order transition was detected. You may need to use the Fix D2V tool to repair this stream. Refer to the DGIndex Users Manual for details." <sigh>

If this whole project weren't so necessary, I would have given up long ago. Still, going to let AGK finish converting to AVI and then I'll see what's up. Damn, damn, damn ...

The thing is that though it took a hell of a long time to find, I found a step-by-step guide to merging the VOBs with VOBEdit and then another guide to creating new IFOs with IFOEdit. The resulting VOB was first one that had both menu and main video yet came out with audio and video completely in synch (again, menu only there for a millisecond, but I don't care. Data is available when needed by a simple click on the DVD's pause button when I go to play the disc in my DVD player). The last thing I need is to have to fiddle with synching both, which I don't even know how to do, when I have so many DVDs to convert! I need a solution such as this one with VOBEdit/IFOEdit which seemed like it might be the best thing to do, then running through AGK to get the XviD AVI I need at the size I need. Then I could just systematically start processing all of the DVDs I created with my DVD Recorder of transferred video tapes from the last 15+ years! I'm ready to chuck those DVDs even the ones that work for data discs with XviD AVIs on them ... if I could ever get those AVIs! I'd be left with a mere handful of discs at the end with all the files and would free up a heck of a lot of shelf space! <g>

Anyway, the saga will continue I guess. I'll report back the results on the AVI file made from the merged VOB using VOBEdit/IFOEdit though doubtful it'll be successful since that error before created AVIs that weren't right <sigh>.

[Quest]

use IFOedit, strip movie only, load ifo into agk, crunch away :)
no menu, no problems!Hi. What do you mean, "strip movie only" in IFOedit terms? I've only used IFOedit once with "success" (? I think I was successful this morning; re using VOBedit and IFOedit today) and that was only because I had a step-by-step guide! Still, one has to start somewhere ...

Thanks.

[Quest]

Hi, everyone. Back again.

Though I didn't get the answer here and achieved results through a lot of blood, sweat and tears (it felt like it anyway), I seem to be achieving results now though I'm having to go an extra step. That extra step was key. AGK was at fault re the audio sync problems so a trial using a "middleman" VOB-to-AVI app instead of AGK happened to do the job. At any rate, here's what I'm doing now and it seems to be working:

I rip using my very trusted DVD Shrink. This is great since it's the only ripper than I can actually see what I'm getting.

Then I go ahead and merge with VOBMerge after all. AGK would convert to an out of audio-sync avi so I tried an extra intermediate step of converting with WinAVI to AVI instead; WinAVI is a converter that has gotten me out of hot water before. It produces a huge file, 2-3 gigs often but then I run _that_ AVI through AGK to get it down to the 200-600 meg range and I have an AVI that works beautifully with sound fully in sync!

Re the quality, I don't really know how it's affected by the extra encoding. The AVIs are from DVDs I made from very old VHS tapes that I transferred to DVD over the last 5 years or so. The quality of the VHS tapes was pretty bad to begin with since they were getting pretty degraded. But these are vital recordings since they're of exercise videos and the quality isn't so critical. The workouts themselves are what is important. I created these VHS initially by copying various segments of workout shows on the TV during the 1990s. Each segment has natural breaks since commercials come on and that creates a convenient pause to slip in another program or as a place to end the workout itself. At that point I would just slip in a cooldown/stretch segment from any of the shows. Though I spend a fortune in any given year on workout DVDs, the recorded workouts I actually keep coming back to over and over are the ones I made on VHS initially since I don't get bored with them. There's so much variety, which helps one from being bored. I copy segments between commercials so there are 3-10 segments from different "episodes" from 4-5 programs that used to run in the 90s, the number depending on the target length of the workout I wanted to make. The workouts range, too, from 15 minutes to 1½ hours in total so that I can gauge how much time I have and pick a workout of the right duration for the time I have on any given day.

Even though I made about 100 tapes over a 12-15 year period or so, backing them up to XviD means that these will probably all fit on 2-3 DVD data discs which is just too kewl for words.

At any rate, thanks for the help. My solution didn't come from any one source and I just am thankful that I have WinAVI which converted the merged VOB into an AVI with instructions that are in sync with the instructors -- something very important when you're on a step and need to know what comes next before you fall off the step and break an ankle, or something ... <lol>

Thanks.

[Quest]

Quick rundown:

1. Rip with DVD Shrink.
2. Merge the VOBs with VOBmerge.
3. Convert to AVI with WinAVI, which produces a very large file.
4. Run the WinAVI-produced AVI through AGK to reduce size to desired target size.

Done.

[yetanotherid]

Some thoughts on where you're up to:

I think what happens with AutoGK is that when it converts vobs, it works out the audio delay (if any) and then when it produces the AVI it does so with the same amount of audio delay. That's fine for a normal movie conversion where the delay should be the same for each vob file DVD shrink produces. If you look in the temp folder AGK creates at the output location, you'll usually see the original audio track with the delay time written in it's file name.
What I suspect is happening to you though, is that your menu vobs and your movie vobs have a different audio delay. So when you tell AGK to convert them together by selecting the first vob file, it uses the first file's audio delay. This isn't matching the delay in the rest of the vobs and therefore throws the rest of the audio out of sync.
I've bumped into that problem a lot. I wish AutoGK was more clever in that respect.

You seemed to have worked out that VirtualDM won't append files unless their audio and video bitrates (and video aspect ratio) match. So if you want to use it for that purpose you need to first convert to something other than xvid.... I'd pick a lossless format.

While what you're doing is working for you, but by converting to xvid and then converting to xvid again you will be losing a little quality. If you can't see it then it doesn't matter, but what you're doing is similar to what I suggested earlier (assuming it'd work) but without the double conversion.

Here's what I'd do:
1. Rip with DVD Shrink
2. Use Super (link posted earlier) to convert the vobs DVD Shrink produced to DVD compliant vobs, while telling it to copy the existing audio and video (not convert it) and see if AutoGK will convert that. If audio sync is still an issue, I'd try getting Super to merge the vobs together into a single output vob and see if the sync problems go away, but once again without actually converting anything.
3. If step two doesn't work I'd then use Super to convert each vob to an AVI, using a lossless format. There's two lossless options. The first compresses but will still produce around a 40GB avi per hour of video. The second doesn't compress so will produce around a 150GB avi per hour of video. With any luck you'll be able to tell Super to merge your menu and movie vobs into one large output file and not have sync issues, but if you do you can convert them separately and VirtualDM should have no problems joining them together. Although if you need to use that it may be an idea to choose the compressed, lossless option, as re saving a 150GB file is a little time consuming.

Basically my method just involves what you're doing with WinAVI, but decoding the vob files into a format AGK can re-encode without the double conversion. But as I said if it's not robbing you of quality you can see, then it probably doesn't matter.

StaxRip, which is a nice converter aimed at converting DVD to x.264 or avi etc should also be able to convert your separate vobs into a single AVI. Maybe it'd be worth installing it and trying it out. It might be able to handle your original vob files and convert them to a single avi in just the way you wish AutoGK would do in the first place, and save you a lot of unnecessary steps. By the sound of it you could just use WinAVI for the whole job if it produced appropriate file sizes. StaxRip will give you full quality/size control.

[FishTank]

you said your home recorded dvds were giving you errors
because of the menus the dvd recorder adds.

when you rip with shrink, then you end up with the video ts folder, right?
do you rip the entire dvd in shrink, or did you try re-author and
use only the movie, not the menu and possible extra folder (dont think you have extras on a home recorded dvd though hehe)

if you can do that, then you really dont need ifoedit to begin with
and AGK should give you errors either cos dvdshrink would make
new ifo files that work in AGK.

ps: sorry for suggesting ifo edit. i wasnt thinking about doing it in shrink duh! lol