Ho to edit a WMV video without re-encoding...?

[Cela]

... and keeping a/v-sync?

The properties of the WMV video as reported by
SUPER © v2009.build.35 (Jan 5, 2009)
Multimedia Analysis Box are listed in my other question (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1253842#post1253842).

Windows Movie Maker wants to fully re-encode. I would prefer a program which cuts at key frames and does not re-encode or a program which allows frame accurate cutting with smart-encoding of only those parts (GOPs) which are affected by the cutting operations.

There must be some software out there which could cut and merge WMV material decently and with keeping a/v-sync.

Who knows a solution?


Cela

[b66pak]

windows media encoder come with an editor witch let you cut .wmvs...you can try asfbin too (but is not so good)...for merge .wmvs use:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144779

or asfbin...
_

[Placio74]

Also can use GUI for AsfBin - Movica (http://vani.bhargav.googlepages.com/movica).

[Cela]

Thanks for your ideas. :)

I hoped to find a 1-click solution for wmv-editing.
I will be busy trying and experimenting for some time now.

[Placio74]

Also can try other... Windows Media File Editor (installed with Windows Media Encoder).

[Cela]

@ b66pak, click2, Placio74
Many thanks for your inspiring recommendations! :)

Findings after some testing:

Summary:
********
Until I will find a better solution I will use the following workflow for "key frame accurate" editing:
Step 1: TotalRecorder_Video Add-on (http://www.totalrecorder.com/versions_history_addons.htm) to produce the cut segments (due to its fine navigation and quality control features to quickly find the best keyframes for the beginning and the end of the cut selection).

Step 2: WMVAPPENDGUI_110 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1245441#post1245441) or WMVJoiner (http://www.weqsoft.com/wmv-joiner-merger.htm) to join the cut selection files from Step 1. Both retain a/v-sync!

This workflow KEPT a/v-sync in all my current tests with editing a single recording!

This workflow is still crooky:
- Many intermediate files;
- no real EDL editing;
- uncomfortable due to too many steps involved
??? Multi-recording editing (making a "best of" two or more recordings of same show) seems possible, but I did not find time yet to test it. So I still do not know if a/v-sync will be retained.

Details:
********
1. Producing the cut segments
I prefer TotalRecorder_Video Add-on for producing the cuts because of its fine navigation features in the Total Recorder Video window:
+ The video window and the scale of the slider can be resized to any desired size by mouse drag

+++ Navigation for finding a cut selection:
+ very easy raw scene selection by scrubbing throug the whole file with the slider; the video display follows instantly ans smoothly
+ Jump to time by manual time code input and remembering of time positions in a drop down list
+ Step left/right by user selectable step-values (I currently use 8 seconds as step value)
+++ Most important: Step left/right by Key frames: -KF Left to previous key frame, KF+ Right to next key frame
+++ This feature assures that cut selections start and end at a key frame.
+ Frame type (Key frame, Delta frame) displayed for each frame.
+ Time Position displayed for each frame in format hh:mm:ss.d
- Time Position should be displayed in format hh:mm:ss.mss (mss... milliseconds)
(The exact current position can be examined by following a crooky lane: "Jump to time > Add current position", with the next "Jump to time" you can see the timecode with milliseconds.)

+++ Quality control of cut selection's start and end:
+ Set beginning of selection, Set end of selection
++ Go to beginning of selection, Go to end of selection
+++ Stop playing at selection boundary
+++ With just a 3 clicks it is possible to see and listen how the selection will end:
+++++ 1. Go to end of selection, 2. step left a selected step, 3. Play
+++++ 2. Go to end of selection, 2. step key frame left, 3. Play
+++++ This makes it very easy to quickly find the best key frame for selection end!!!

+ Save selection as ... allows to output the selection into a new file.

Now some drawbacks:
--- TR does not handle EDL. Thus, every cut has to be stored individually into a file.
--- TR allows sort of a join operation by "Edit > Insert a file at current position..." but tends to loose a/v-sync.
--- Loosing a/v-sync degrades the usefulness of that feature.


Movica (http://vani.bhargav.googlepages.com/movica) is a very promising software but, unfortunately, it has no support to find and quality control the key frame property of cut selection's start and end points. To that end it would need the fine navigation and control features of TR Video window (described above).
+ It supports EDLs.
- It also does not support direct multi-file EDLs thogh.
+ It would allow to join video files.
- But it did not retain a/v-sync in my tests.
So, at the time being, I cannot use it for step 1 or step 2.

When I will find some spare time I will test what will happen to a/v-sync in "multi-recording/best-of" editing.

P.S.
Full "multi-recording/best-of" editing will definitely require "frame-accurate" editing!

P.P.S.
Joined a longer test:
a.wmv 4.562.855 KB (from 1st recording)
b.wmv 177.047 KB (from 2nd recording)
c.wmv 1.549.565 KB (from 1st recording)
-------------------
resulting in
abc_WMVJoiner.wmv 6.289.400 KB in 3 mins.
abc_WMVAppend.wmv 6.289.478 KB in 11 mins.
Both results keep individual a/v sync of joined sections (OK)

PCH reacts "sensitive" to the connections a-b and b-c which have the following properties in this example:
a-b connection: no movement and silence -> gap not noticeable.
b-c connection: slow steady camera pan and applause -> gap ,audio and video is noticeably interrupted
Both results have a short silent stop (< 1 sec), especially noticeable at the connection between b and c, when played with PCH.

Replay with a software player (mplayerc, Nero Show time, PowerDVD) smears out the gap. It does not really interrupt the replay. I can see that there is something wrong when I look closely, but the audio sounds uninterrupted. Strange.