BD9 Incompatible players [Archive]

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yonexsp

16th January 2009, 05:24

Well, the BD9 discs won;t play on my friends Samsung BDP-U5000.

But they would play on a Sammy BD1500

Anyone else foun fplayers that they won't play on?

turbojet

16th January 2009, 08:47

BD9's from BD-RB?
movie only or full backup?

yonexsp

16th January 2009, 14:55

Movie olny

jdobbs

16th January 2009, 15:08

I can understand reasons why a Full Backup disc may not play on a certain player, and I'll work on it to make it more compatible. But if a player doesn't play a movie-only backup, all I can say is "That player isn't very flexible. Don't recommend it to anyone else." Not all players support AVCHD or BD-9. I thought all Samsung players should, though, but I may be mistaken.

Of course there is also other variables that can affect this. Some players work better with some disc brands and types (+ -, RW, R, etc).

yonexsp

16th January 2009, 18:10

Anyone else have this player?

mrwhitethc

17th January 2009, 18:47

My parents have a Samsung BD1500, no firmware updates and I didn't think to check which one it was out of the box. It played back a test AVCHD I made but it was when I was cropping files so aspect ratio was way off. Haven't been back to test yet but since it did play the video and audio when I go back it should still still work and I'll report the firmware version. I'll also bring a BD-RB DVD-5 and DVD-9 movie only just to make sure they work as well.

yonexsp

17th January 2009, 20:16

I tested the 1500 at BB, and it worked flwlessly. It seems the 5000 is another kettle of fish altogether

GaPony

18th January 2009, 06:30

You can add the Samsung BD-P2500 (Firmware Rev. 2.4) to the list of incompatible players. It doesn't like full movies or Movie Only versions of copies on DVD, although its supposed to support AVCHD.

drmih

18th January 2009, 16:22

dav88

18th January 2009, 16:55

GaPony

18th January 2009, 18:10

Not trying to be difficult but a thread giving advice on ones which do work would be more useful. It's fine knowing which ones don't (with their current firmware) but if like me you're thinking of a replacement, you want to know which ones do. I'm thinking of a Sony 550 at the moment - the samsung 2500 has just moved down because of this thread

Most players from Sony and Panasonic seem to have little problem with AVCHD. Samsung doesn't want to play nice with AVCHD and it appears to be conscious decision on their part. Picking out the non-compliant players seems like it may be a shorter list.

I bought the Samsung BD-P2500 specifically because it supported AVCHD and streams directly from NetFlix... I must say that I am disappointed. I'm going to try backing down to an earlier firmware revision to see if it makes a difference. Otherwise, I'll try changing the file structure of the disc to see if I can find one that is compatible with both the BD-P2500 and my PS3 which has no problem with the Movie Only BD9 discs and sees them as AVCHD.

It seems I picked two hardheaded players. :)

drmih

18th January 2009, 18:23

Surely the thread is about bd-9 rather then whether AVCHD discs work? Although interesting information, I'm only concerned with players which will play discs with a blu-ray structure.

dav88

18th January 2009, 20:09

The links to the method I posted above work for BD-9 structure also.

GaPony

18th January 2009, 20:38

My BD-P1500 would not play AVCHD when I with upgrade firmware 2.3 until I read the below threads:

http://bd.splra.org/

http://www.hdtvtotal.com/module-pagesetter-printpub-tid-1-pid-1051.html

http://forum.videohelp.com/topic360957.html?highlight=bdp1500

Thank you! Using the avchd_leer construction, my Samsung BD-P2500 (Firmware 2.4) plays a movie only copy. I'll try a full movie conversion. Nope... I should have known it wouldn't work. :)

alluringreality

18th January 2009, 21:15

I'm only concerned with players which will play discs with a blu-ray structure.

There simply aren't many players that will play Blu-ray files written to DVD media. The easiest thing is to take a disk to a store and see if any players happen to play it. I know some Sony players are able to play Blu-ray on DVD, and the Magnavox was reported as being able to play HDMV on DVD.

Of course it's possible the company could change firmware at any time to stop Blu-ray on DVD playback. This is shown by how the PS3 does not play Blu-ray on DVD while some of their standalones do, and how some players like Samsung will playback homemade disks differently depending on firmware. Of course if you want to watch commercial movies it's possible that at some point you might have to update firmware to play a new Blu-ray, so even if a player happens to play an out of spec disk like Blu-ray on DVD today it might not do so after a firmware change. Apparently some Samsung and LG owners have had this happen, but so far my Sony has only had wider disk compatibility added since what it offered at release (of course this could change).

alluringreality

18th January 2009, 21:23

Thank you! Using the avchd_leer construction, my Samsung BD-P2500 (Firmware 2.4) plays a movie only copy. I'll try a full movie conversion.

That file just contains part of a Nero Vision AVCHD output. The commercial AVCHD authoring software I've used seems to use that same layout of AVCHD containing only those directories.

dav88

18th January 2009, 21:29

I guess it is flagging it as AVCHD. Here's some more info:

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b520d1

Furiousflea

18th January 2009, 21:30

There simply aren't many players that will play Blu-ray files written to DVD media. The easiest thing is to take a disk to a store and see if any players happen to play it. I know some Sony players are able to play Blu-ray on DVD, and the Magnavox was reported as being able to play HDMV on DVD.

Of course it's possible the company could change firmware at any time to stop Blu-ray on DVD playback. This is shown by how the PS3 does not play Blu-ray on DVD while some of their standalones do, and how some players like Samsung will playback homemade disks differently depending on firmware. Of course if you want to watch commercial movies it's possible that at some point you might have to update firmware to play a new Blu-ray, so even if a player happens to play an out of spec disk like Blu-ray on DVD today it might not do so after a firmware change. Apparently some Samsung and LG owners have had this happen, but so far my Sony has only had wider disk compatibility added since what it offered at release (of course this could change).

We know this and to re-iterate, we don't care which players support AVCHD (there are plenty that do). We care what players support BD9 with full menu support and no problems.

I accept that this list isn't going to be a long one, it might not even contain any players except the Sony one jdobbs is using. But that is besides the point. Moving forward, nobody cares about what doesn't work, or what works for AVCHD playback.

A list as a sticky would be a great idea to help people make the right decision on a player that fully supports BD9, otherwise we will have thread after thread of "this works with this firmware" "but not with this firmware"...etc.

:)

alluringreality

18th January 2009, 22:12

We care what players support BD9 with full menu support and no problems.

I've written this before, but you are not really creating BD-9. If you were creating BD-9 it would play on all players. What you are wanting to do is just to put Blu-ray files on DVD media. I just think it's worth pointing out that if a player will play an out-of-spec disk like that today, it could be taken away with a firmware change.

it might not even contain any players except the Sony one jdobbs is using.

My BDP-S1 plays HDMV from DVD. The player was the first Sony released and so far, out of the numerous firmware updates, they've never dropped support. Going by reports over the past couple years of what has happened with other players, I personally wouldn't buy another brand if I was expecting support of Blu-ray on DVD for a long period of time. Too many players play out-of-spec disks differently depending on firmware to count on continued support across firmware changes in my opinion.

Moving forward, nobody cares about what doesn't work, or what works for AVCHD playback.

No, what you mean is that you don't care. Apparently some Samsung and LG owners care that their non-compliant disks no longer play. Go and wish that Blu-ray players would play what you want them to play all you want, but in actually testing what plays on what, authoring to DVD has not had a very good track record for continued support - outside of players advertising AVCHD playback.

otherwise we will have thread after thread of "this works with this firmware" "but not with this firmware"...etc.

Expect it. So far Sony seems to be supporting what you want on standalones, and apparently the first Panasonic did too (http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=20850). I totally get how you wish things would work, but that doesn't seem in line with Blu-ray intentions based on what players play what files from DVD media.

Furiousflea

19th January 2009, 00:44

I've written this before, but you are not really creating BD-9. If you were creating BD-9 it would play on all players. What you are wanting to do is just to put Blu-ray files on DVD media. I just think it's worth pointing out that if a player will play an out-of-spec disk like that today, it could be taken away with a firmware change.

My BDP-S1 plays HDMV from DVD. The player was the first Sony released and so far, out of the numerous firmware updates, they've never dropped support. Going by reports over the past couple years of what has happened with other players, I personally wouldn't buy another brand if I was expecting support of Blu-ray on DVD for a long period of time. Too many players play out-of-spec disks differently depending on firmware to count on continued support across firmware changes in my opinion.

No, what you mean is that you don't care. Apparently some Samsung and LG owners care that their non-compliant disks no longer play. Go and wish that Blu-ray players would play what you want them to play all you want, but in actually testing what plays on what, authoring to DVD has not had a very good track record for continued support - outside of players advertising AVCHD playback.

Expect it. So far Sony seems to be supporting what you want on standalones, and apparently the first Panasonic did too (http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=20850). I totally get how you wish things would work, but that doesn't seem in line with Blu-ray intentions based on what players play what files from DVD media.

I don't want this to turn into some abrasive "tit-for-tat".

This is the "DVD Rebuilder" sub forum, not the HD DVD\Bluray authoring forum - AVCHD has no place here. BD Rebuilder from jdobbs currently does not target playback for AVCHD only players. It targets players that can play BD9. The "BD9" is not some cheapo hack "bluray content on DVD DL", it is a part of the bluray standard and thus should will be garnering more support as time goes on.

You seem to be under the belief that the output from BD Rebuilder isn't "true" BD9 standard structure, jdobbs has pointed out that it in fact is proper BD9 output.

Of course some manufacturers may revoke support of BD9\AVCHD in the future, or BD9\AVCHD on burnt media at least but this will most likely be to create a market for a higher end model and not a conspiracy, I'm not disputing it. I guess I'm saying "ok, we know. There's nothing you can do except downgrade the firmware if possible, there's nothing else to discuss and discussion won't help you! What will help is for people in future is a list of players that DO work at the current time and with which firmware".

yonexsp

19th January 2009, 02:48

So,

Back to my original post. A sticky with compliant players and the firmware version would seem like a good idea. Would someone care to create one

alluringreality

19th January 2009, 04:04

"BD9" is not some cheapo hack "bluray content on DVD DL", it is a part of the bluray standard and thus should will be garnering more support as time goes on.

If you have any information that supports the quote, then by all means please post it. I personally cannot find anything to indicate that putting Blu-ray files on DVD media creates the item from chapter 18 in http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Assets/Downloadablefile/BD-ROMwhitepaper20070308-15270.pdf The article at http://www.emedialive.com/articles/readarticle.aspx?categoryid=46&articleid=13818 says "the Advanced Access Content System (AACS) must be used to encrypt all replicated/pressed BD-ROM AV authored titles" and then http://www.emedialive.com/articles/readarticle.aspx?articleid=11397#iii lists BD9 as refering to "prerecorded" media (replication) with the "BD-ROM AV" application format. As far as I can tell the comments from Hugh Bennett would suggest that to create BD-9 as Blu-ray defines things you would have to get into AACS and replication. This isn't necessarily the end-all source, but it is in line with how most players simply will not play Blu-ray files written to DVD media.

jdobbs has pointed out that it in fact is proper BD9 output.

Based on prior replies to questions about PS3 playback and comments on AVCHD-related items I've read, I'm not much inclined to blindly accept statements without something that can be verified.

Trahald

19th January 2009, 06:05

The topic is BD9 Incompatible players. Any reply other than a report of a player that is incompatible, or compatible as the original poster opens that up by referring to one in his post, will result in a strike. Any discussion of what a bd9 is or isnt can be started on a new thread if one doesnt already exist.

drmih

26th January 2009, 22:24

yonexsp

26th January 2009, 23:09

Can someone double check the Samsung BD-UP5000

toology

26th January 2009, 23:33

I tried burning an AVCHD disc for my Samsung BD P-1000 player and it didn't work.

Furiousflea

27th January 2009, 13:25

I've just got a Sony S550 and I am having mixed results although I did these with an early version of bd-rebuilder. For information, and incase anyone has any ideas, the following applies:

bd-r / bd-rw - play fine no issues
AVCHD files - play fine no issues.

bd-9
All handle the menus fine and some are okay but:

Terminator - thinks the main movie is mpeg and plays a black screen. Fine in a pc and a ps3 handles movie stream fine

Terminator 2 - tried to play main movie but clock just keeps jumping on. Fine on pc and ps3 handle movie stream

The Omega Man - everything fine except audio out of sync on movie and extras.

The Mummy - Everything seems fine but no audio. Fine on pc and ps3.

If you don't mind me asking, you say some played with no problems and then listed some that don't. This gives no real information as you haven't said how many DID play. If you tested 100 and those are the only ones that didn't play then this would be a great standalone for BD9s. On the other hand if you only tested 10. This would not be so good.

Thanks :)

drmih

27th January 2009, 15:59

Sticking purely to bd-9, which makes sense considering the topic thread (but it is of value for others to know that this Sony has no issues with information written to bd discs), I have done about 10 so far - I prefer to stick to bd-25. Therefore 4 out of 10 have issues. I think that the audio sync is resolved now(??), so 3. What is interesting is that in all cases they handle the menus, extras etc fine but have an issue with the main movie.

On a techincal issue for those with more understanding of the structure than me, The Mummy, which will not play the audio on the standalone, has, according to the setup menu, only a True HD soundtrack. Therefore, when it's compressed to a bd-9, the sound is obviously changed to ac3. Is there an issue where the standalone can't find the True HD, whereas the ps3 (which is a stream only) and pc (less rigourous checking) just play what is there?

alluringreality

28th January 2009, 02:12

when it's compressed to a bd-9, the sound is obviously changed to ac3. Is there an issue where the standalone can't find the True HD, whereas the ps3 (which is a stream only) and pc (less rigourous checking) just play what is there?

The playlist and clipinf files have identifiers for the video and audio. You can use BDedit to see what the files list.