Windows 7 beta and H.264 playback

[atreides93]

I usually run Vista 32bit or XP 32bit, and to play back my H.264 m2ts files I always have to install CoreAVC otherwise it stutters if I use ffdshow. Anyway, what amazes me about Windows 7 is that it appears to be able to play back my m2ts files WITHOUT the need to install any codecs. It has it built in...and on top of that, it plays very smooth. I wonder what codec they installed with windows 7 now....anyone else trying it?

[Dark Shikari]

I wonder what codec they installed with windows 7 now....anyone else trying it?Probably their own.

Speaking of which, anyone care to upload the decoder dll itself so that I can objdump it and stea^H^H^H^Htake a look at its asm?

[atreides93]

Sure, uhm how do I figure out what the dll is called? lol

So I noticed it doesn't play mkv's, but it will play mp4's. Even if I forced WM12 to play back an Mkv, it just stops.

I then installed the Vista Codec pack version 5.09 and using ffdshow it plays back mkv's and uses about 30% cpu. But at least its very smooth. In Vista, I needed CoreAVC to get smooth playback. So, wonder if ffdshow is faster in windows 7 or what.

I just realized my cpu usage info is useless if you don't know what cpu I have.
I'm running an Intel Core2 Duo 2.6 gigz. no OCing. and with DDR2 memory..forgot what freq the memory is. sad I know.

[Dark Shikari]

I then installed the Vista Codec pack version 5.09 and using ffdshow it plays back mkv's and uses about 30% cpu. But at least its very smooth. In Vista, I needed CoreAVC to get smooth playback. So, wonder if ffdshow is faster in windows 7 or what.Or perhaps libavcodec has gotten faster since your last test in Vista? :p

[atreides93]

I dunno. But ok now that I installed this vista codec pack, I can't get the "native" one to play my files anymore.
If I disable H.264/AVC in ffdshow video decoder config, none of my m2ts files play anymore.

[Hypernova]

I don't really know a thing about codec, so I will point to this article

http://www.istartedsomething.com/20081115/windows-7-new-decoders-encoders-transcoding/

My guess is that it's not directshow stuff, but that Media Foundation thing. So as soon as as mkv splitter taking place, it fall back to directshow, and that built-in decoder doesn't work anymore.

When it does, it play really smooth though (with DXVA I believe). So I hope someday MPC-HC (or some other project) can use it and render subtitle on top of it (essential for me). If you want to use it. I think you have to disable Haali splitter.

[RunningSkittle]

I cant seem to get MPC-HCs built in AR switcher to work under windows 7 :(

It was working in vista...

[arfster]

If you use tsmuxer to remux h264/mkv into .m2ts (takes no time at all), they then play with full acceleration (ie 1% cpu) in media centre and wmp. You don't need to install any codecs or splitters at all for this to work, it all comes preloaded in windows7.

[Jom]

I dunno. But ok now that I installed this vista codec pack, I can't get the "native" one to play my files anymore.
If I disable H.264/AVC in ffdshow video decoder config, none of my m2ts files play anymore.

Like you, I was sure that Windows 7 decoded h264 natively. I even remember looking at the qasf.dll that GraphStudio reported it was using as the filter. The only thing i've installed is Haalis matroska splitter and now it doesn't want to decode h264.

I'll uninstall it when I get home and see if native h264 decoding comes back.

[clsid]

You might be able to fix it by removing this key that Haali splitter creates:
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Media Type\Extensions\.m2ts

[Jom]

don't have .m2ts in that branch of the registry.

windows 7 (WMP 12) will play AVC in mp4 (encoded with x264) just fine. If I remux the video stream in the mp4 to mkv, windows doesn't play the video. So that seems to suggest AVC is tied down to mp4. Graphedit wont render either file. MPC fails to play them if you disable the internal filters.

I've re-muxed the transformers hd-dvd (h264/AVC) to mkv and WMP doesn't play the video either. Graphedit can render this, but cannot find a filter for the video output from haalis splitter.

mkv with VC-1 works perfectly.

maybe windows is messed up, maybe its why its a beta. installing an external codec fixes everything.
I've got to install the 32 bit version in work next week so i'll see how it behaves out the box.

[atreides93]

Anyone have a clue how to restore windows 7 native h.264 playback in mp4 and mts files? I noticed it was playing back mts files which come straight out of my camcorder...in the past I had to rename the files to m2ts before they would play.

I dont want to uninstall vista codec pack, then megui probably won't work ?

[atreides93]

So I noticed that simply uninstalling vista codec pack does restore native playback in windows 7...but megui won't work...or maybe its avisynth that won't work...if i try to use avi synth script creator, it complains that it can't open the m2ts file anymore

[clsid]

VCP is crap. Use K-Lite CP Standard. That won't interfere with native m2t(s) playback in WMP.

[VistaUser]

VCP is crap.
The fact that clsid owns Klite and has never used VCP makes your opinion of VCP worth ZERO.

By the way, the developer of VCP has released Windows 7 codecs (http://www.majorgeeks.com/Win7codecs_d6103.html). They are working great on my machine.

[Leak]

*rant*
And the opinion of some random shill is of course worth much more than clsid's because...? :rolleyes:

np: 808 State - Nimbus (Gorgeous Remastered)

[atreides93]

klite does the same thing. Basically if I want to play back m2ts files in windows media player 12 using the windows 7 accelerated way, then I have to uninstall these codec packs. Simply disabling the h.264 playback in the ffdshow video decoder settings isn't enough. IF I just disable it, then I get no video play back anymore.
Oh by the way, noticed that with CoreAVC Pro, I only get a 10% improvement over the current version of libavcodec. I think there used to be a much bigger improvement.
I'm going to keep playing with the settings...what I'd like to be able to do is switch back on the libavcodec way for when I want to do some encoding with megui...and then switch it off when I just want to play back stuff so I can use the windows 7 accelerated way.

[zachdms]

It kills me that the Win7VCP:
* registers for ".qt".
* sets WMP's UserApprovedOwning field

There is no ".qt" file type. (Neither is there a ".vfw" file type.) I sat in a room with QuickTime devs and personally confirmed this. If the file is ".qt", the extension is set wrong.
Don't set the UserApprovedOwning field. That's to be set by users ONLY. Don't have the player accidentally taking associations because YOU don't know what you're doing. The player happily plays nicely with everybody else, and you/Shark attempting to make it aggressive angers me. Don't touch things you don't understand.

There's other glitches in there too, but those are just the ones that set my head aflame because they show such a lack of basic understanding.

The world needs another pirate codec pack like you need a hole in the head.

[clsid]

klite does the same thing. Basically if I want to play back m2ts files in windows media player 12 using the windows 7 accelerated way, then I have to uninstall these codec packs. Simply disabling the h.264 playback in the ffdshow video decoder settings isn't enough. IF I just disable it, then I get no video play back anymore.
Oh by the way, noticed that with CoreAVC Pro, I only get a 10% improvement over the current version of libavcodec. I think there used to be a much bigger improvement.
I'm going to keep playing with the settings...what I'd like to be able to do is switch back on the libavcodec way for when I want to do some encoding with megui...and then switch it off when I just want to play back stuff so I can use the windows 7 accelerated way.
If disabling H.264 in ffdshow didn't help, then it is unlikely that ffdshow is the cause. Try disabling MPEG-TS handling in Haali splitter.

@zachdms
Isn't Media Foundation supposed to take precedence over DirectShow filters for m2ts files?
Will there be an option in Win7 to configure which formats are handled by MF? I have seen various people already who renamed mfpmp.exe to disable use of MF. Which of course is a bad idea because it results in playback failure of formats like .wmv files. Main reason for people wanting to disable MF is because the MS decoders don't give smooth playback (yet).

[zachdms]

It would seem more interesting at this point to fix that beta playback issue than to get back into a world where third parties are going to plug bad or unreliable filters in. Remember that people like to blame MS for everything, and so letting shoddy components overwrite components that you have a known level of functionality with isn't exactly the most wonderful plan.

What's the specific scenario?

[clsid]

I am not saying that third party filters are necessarily better. I think it is a good thing that the player supports more 'out-of-the-box'. If the bugs in the MS decoder(s) are fixed, then there would be no real need for third party ones. At least not for the average user. But I do think that people should not be forced to use specific decoders. Certainly since WMP is a still also a DirectShow capable player. WMP should just default to using MF/DMO for everything that it supports natively. But it should be configurable for advanced users. The interface of WMP has improved nicely, but due to the inflexibility of the player, many will choose to use a different player.

I can't give you a scenario for the bugs. Those are the experiences of others that I have read. I have only played with W7 a little bit in a VM.

[zachdms]

It is theoretically possible that third party vendors without adequate quality control may have significantly encouraged the player to be less flexible in this capacity. It's probably better for the player to not crash and die unexpectedly than to worry about being "too inflexible". Mom and Pop can't necessarily handle codec packs messing up, and the player probably needs to focus on the 98% case.

If there's some significant and exact scenario in question, that might be interesting. If the question is simply "how do we stomp on the MSFT decoders", I don't know why that's interesting at this time. Especially as opposed to flagging specific issues in what is noted as a beta release.

[73ChargerFan]

specific: support for FLAC & MKV is missing.

[Ryokurin]

It is theoretically possible that third party vendors without adequate quality control may have significantly encouraged the player to be less flexible in this capacity. It's probably better for the player to not crash and die unexpectedly than to worry about being "too inflexible". Mom and Pop can't necessarily handle codec packs messing up, and the player probably needs to focus on the 98% case.

If there's some significant and exact scenario in question, that might be interesting. If the question is simply "how do we stomp on the MSFT decoders", I don't know why that's interesting at this time. Especially as opposed to flagging specific issues in what is noted as a beta release.

It's not a issue of wanting to kill their decoders, just to allow people the choice of using what they want. If anything, I'm all for MS to put in functional codecs to stop people from using kitchen sink codec packs as it will make my side job easier, heck my day job as well. Being able to toggle between codecs would be an excellent way to determine bugs as well.

[zachdms]

If there was a magic toggle, it would seem that that would have to require explicit user override if you really wanted to ensure at least a minimum user experience. Otherwise every codec pack then sets this magic flag and you end up in crash city again. I think I'm done thinking about this aspect of the conversation at this point: I'd be interested in specific Win7 WMP problem points, but I'm not at this point interested in thinking about or learning about how to stomp on WMP's decoders. It seems like we've already gone down that route before and it caused a lot of people a lot of grief. I apologize if there's any perception that I'd be interested in discussing this. I'm here as a friend and am specifically and only interested here in knowing where WMP specifically is failing within the bounds of things it is trying to do.


73: Yes, you'd need an external filter for MKV/FLAC. Same for Shoutcast/PLS and etc. You probably don't think the player is perfect, which means that the team probably would want to focus on core scenarios first before adding support for every file type under the sun. Are you having problem installing your MKV or FLAC filter...?

[clsid]

Could you try to improve compatibility between DirectVobSub and WMP12? A lot of people are having subtitle problems.

srt -> doesn't load at all
idx/sub -> works ok
embedded -> works ok when using "auto-load vsfilter" workaround in Haali Media Splitter

[Pr3d]

Did someone try to use DXVA on Windows 7?
Im using the same OS (build 7000 i mean) but it doesnt work.

[Snowknight26]

It works fine here (as does MPC-HC's DXVA).

[Pr3d]

Im using MPC-HC build 908 with HD 4850, Catalyst beta driver for Seven, H264 internal filter is enabled, no external codecs.

If i launch a 1080p video my CPU is always around 45%. :(
This thing didnt happen under Vista.

Any idea? Could be a catalyst problem?

[zachdms]

I can nearly guarantee that for file types not in at this point that questions about better support for that type would be best made within the official (not the general public) 7 beta program. It sounds like SRT didn't meet the bar for general inclusion, and I would suspect that beta program members aren't indicating that this is a key scenario for them.
There are a number of smaller useful features that just aren't going to make the bar as the focus on Windows 7 is more on general and specific excellence than on some of the smaller scenarios that affect a tiny percent of users. Actual beta feedback can help drive change, though.

If there's some magical stat that says that SRT is the world wide file type king, that might be interesting, but as of right now I think it falls below the bar.

[clsid]

SRT subtitles are very commonly used for custom translations.

I am not asking for native support for it. Just compatibility with a third party filter (DirectVobSub aka VSFilter). It loads for embedded SSA/ASS subtitles, so why shouldn't it also load for .srt ones like it does on Vista?

[madshi]

Just to let you know, some Microsoft devs have been in contact with Haali (and me) to make his MKV splitter work with the Windows 7 VC-1, h264 and AAC decoders. So things are looking quite promising...

[73ChargerFan]

73: Yes, you'd need an external filter for MKV/FLAC. Same for Shoutcast/PLS and etc. You probably don't think the player is perfect, My wife & I think MCE is fantastic, and I think the library browser in WMP11 is the easiest for me and my family to use.

I use flac because it has a MD5 checksum in it, and can self-check. About 5% of my wma lossless collection became corrupted (hd error) and to check the files, I had to manually verify their checksums which took forever.

I think I have a valid reason to use FLAC over WMA Lossless, and only want my family to see those files with the ease they can see mp3 files.

Thanks for reading this thread. :thanks:

[Pr3d]

I tried to install latest catalyst driver realease but nothing seems changed. :(

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1952/51395374ea7.jpg

[Avenger007]

Just to let you know, some Microsoft devs have been in contact with Haali (and me) to make his MKV splitter work with the Windows 7 VC-1, h264 and AAC decoders. So things are looking quite promising...
That will be a milestone for MKV support (as already is for MP4), putting an end to WMV/ASF native-support dominance. :cool:
Now if only we had good lossless frame-accurate MKV editing support...

[kosmonaut]

Just to let you know, some Microsoft devs have been in contact with Haali (and me) to make his MKV splitter work with the Windows 7 VC-1, h264 and AAC decoders. So things are looking quite promising...

Are they looking to have MKV support be native in Windows 7? That would be pretty impressive to say the least.

[Casimir666]

I tried to install latest catalyst driver realease but nothing seems changed. :(

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1952/51395374ea7.jpg

It seems you have driver deliver by Microsoft. DXVA works fine for me with beta drivers downloaded from ATI :

http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=39069

[clsid]

Are they looking to have MKV support be native in Windows 7? That would be pretty impressive to say the least.
No native support. Just good compatibility with the recommended (third party) Matroska splitter.

[kosmonaut]

No native support. Just good compatibility with the recommended (third party) Matroska splitter.

That's kind of what I thought, but still, it's progress! :D