Still Having Problems with TrueHD

[SomeJoe]

My apologies if this has been asked (or solved) before, but I have been scouring the forum in many places and have not come across this situation.

I am trying to make a backup of one of my original Blu-Ray discs, Iron Man (Region A). My goal is to make a backup of the main movie only, on a BD-R (BD-25), while retaining maximum quality for both audio and video. I decided to do this by keeping the Dolby TrueHD audio track, and reencoding video to fit.

My process is as follows:

1. Extract the audio track using eac3to.exe (v2.85):

eac3to.exe "<path to original directory>" 1) 3: "originalAudio.thd+ac3"

The original audio track on this BD is Dolby TrueHD with an embedded 640Kbps standard ac3. The above command line from eac3to.exe does no reencoding of anything, it just extracts this track with the embedded ac3 intact.

2. Extract the video track using eac3to.exe:

eac3to.exe "<path to original directory>" 1) 1: "originalVideo.h264"

This gives me the original H.264 video. It's too big for a single-layer BD-R, so it needs to be reencoded.

3. Compute my bitrate, and reencode video with DGAVCIndex, AVISynth, and x264.exe. This step goes fine, I end up with another .h264 video file that is now smaller, and when combined with the Dolby TrueHD track, just fits on the BD-25. (DGAVCIndex v1.07, AVISynth v2.57, x264.exe v1057).

4. Mux with TSMuxer to a Blu-Ray structure. TSMuxer recognizes both audio and video tracks properly. I check the "change frame rate" in TSMuxer and give it 24000/1001 which makes the resulting output work properly for FF/Rew.

5. Run FixCLPI on the two CLPI files in the Blu-Ray structure to enable proper FF/Rew.

6. Take the .m2ts file from the output, and run it through TSRemux to create another .m2ts. This is supposed to fix TSMuxer's problem with TrueHD.

7. Take the new .m2ts, put it into the BD structure replacing the old one, and now burn to media using ImgBurn, with UDF 2.50 file system.


OK, the resulting BD-25 plays in my Sony BDP-S350, video looks wonderful. No skipping or anything else. BD player is set to bitstream all audio to my AV receiver. AV receiver shows "TrueHD" in the display, and on-screen info on the BD player shows TrueHD audio track as well.

BUT ... the audio sounds like absolute crap. Contains a lot of static, barely-audible dialogue, no imaging/staging of the sound field at all, hardly any LFE output.

I re-did this entire procedure, substituting PCM audio for the TrueHD:

eac3to.exe "<path to original directory" 1) 3: "originalAudio.pcm" -down16

Took this PCM file, ran it through PCM2TSMu.exe for compatiblity with TSMuxer.

Authored this disc with TSMuxer, did not do the TSRemux step since it's not supposed to be necessary unless you're using TrueHD audio.

This BD with PCM audio is perfect. Audio is identical to the TrueHD audio on the original BD.

By the way, the TrueHD track + 640kbps AC3 core was about 3.8 GB. The PCM track is about 4.3 GB. You'd think that would require me to re-compress the video even smaller, but it turns out that the mux overhead for TrueHD (at least through TSMuxer and TSRemux) is so much higher than for other audio tracks, that I didn't.

So what is going on with TrueHD here? Is there just no way at all, at this time, to get a properly re-muxed TrueHD track?

[idbirch2]

TrueHD is broken in TSMuxer, try TS4Np, others have reported that works although I haven't tested it myself. I've been decompressing the TrueHD to PCM using eac3to and muxing the PCM in with TSMuxer.

[rica]

No need to step 5.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=141125
But THD makes an unwanted overhead.
Transcoding to PCM is better. (playing with TMT .122)
Transcoding to flac; i'm not sure over analog:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=143753

[SomeJoe]

TrueHD is broken in TSMuxer, try TS4Np, others have reported that works although I haven't tested it myself. I've been decompressing the TrueHD to PCM using eac3to and muxing the PCM in with TSMuxer.

Thanks! I will try TS4Np and see how that works.

[idbirch2]

Let us know how you get on.

[QuadcoreHD]

If you create an .ISO of the BDMV folder you create when "Creating a blu-ray disc structure" with TSMuxer, you will not have any issues with TrueHD audio. I've read several posts today indicating there is an issue with TrueHD with TSMuxer. While I have not experienced this ever (with the 5 to 6 BDs with TrueHD that I've processed) I'd be interested to know more details about the issues people are having.

Again, creating an ISO eliminates this problem.

Personally, I beleive that using TSMuxer/AnyDVD/ImgBurn is the easiest and most complete way to do this. I have yet to encounter a disc that could not be processed, and have never once had any issues with TrueHD or any other audio/video format on a disc.

PS (and I do hate to do this) but, see the guide in my sig for more information.

[idbirch2]

I'd love to be proved wrong but I've tried TrueHD tracks myself and they don't work. I see absolutely no reason my making the output into an ISO would magically fix anything. You are sure you are not running some obscure old revision of TSMuxer maybe that didn't have the issue (latest version is 1.8.8)?

Next one I get, I'll try it though, just in case (I'm that desperate I would try muxing while facing east if someone told me that would work.)

[mikelebron]

Actually.. just to chime in .... I was in a different forum screaming I couldnt get any HD audio to work after remuxing (AC3 was fine though)... and found that it was PowerDVD. Once I remuxed to a bluray strucutre then created an ISO.. mounted the ISO then played on PwrDVD all worked fine... soo.

It could be the player...

I'd love to be proved wrong but I've tried TrueHD tracks myself and they don't work. I see absolutely no reason my making the output into an ISO would magically fix anything. You are sure you are not running some obscure old revision of TSMuxer maybe that didn't have the issue (latest version is 1.8.8)?

Next one I get, I'll try it though, just in case (I'm that desperate I would try muxing while facing east if someone told me that would work.)

[idbirch2]

Firstly, we are discussing TrueHD in particular, there is no problem with any other HD audio format in TSMuxer, DTS-HD and PCM audio work absolutely fine for me but when the audio is TrueHD, no sound. I doubt it is player related, in my case and the OP's we are using hardware players, the OP a standalone BD player and myself, a PS3. TrueHD does not even work when the output is authored to an AVCHD folder and played from a hard disk.

Some people can get TSMuxer/TrueHD output to play on software players but the result is either as the OP described or the video speeding up and slowing down at random intervals.

[deank]

Can any one provide a 10-30sec sample of trueHD+video?

[rica]

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=610f03b89c15442e91b20cc0d07ba4d230a6ed47efffdcad

This is the cut of original m2ts which includes other audio formats as well. Audio 3 is THD.

[peterjcat]

I've found that using SomeJoe's steps but using ts4Np instead of TsRemux results in correct TrueHD playable on my NMT.

[deank]

Thanks.

[<><]

i've been using bdinfo along w/ tsMuxer and have had no problems w/ TrueHD tracks not playing...although i'm just using powerdvd 7.3 to play all my movies (not burning onto bd disk) and it works perfectly.
The FF/RW is broken b/c i haven't used that fixclpi app.

[QuadcoreHD]

@idbirch2,

I understand your frustration. I experienced it myself for months until i discovered that creating an ISO DOES "magically" fix the issue. As I said before, I've yet to NOT be able to process a BD with TrueHD.

Let me clarify as to what my method is:

1. While running AnyDVD HD, use TSmuxer to extract and mux only the main feature .m2ts file, and the master audio track (always in English as I live in the US) which, as you know, is one of several formats: AC3, LPCM, DTS-HD, or the dreaded TrueHD. I always check the option to "create blu-ray structure" in TSMuxer.
2. Once the folder (by default named BDMV) is created on my machine, I then create an .ISO of the entire folder with ImgBurn.
3. Mount this image with Daemon Tools and play with PowerDVD.

This entire process takes about 30-40 mintues and has yet to fail, assuming I am running the most up-to-date verision of AnyDVD.

Now, I undertand this may not work for those who are trying stream to a NAS, PS3, or 360, and unfortunatly I don't have a good solution for those people. But, for everyone using a HTPC, or burning to disc, this method works for every single BD disc I own (which is about 125 discs at this point).

[mikelebron]

This is EXACTLY the process I used and works beautifully... except for the 360/PS3.

@idbirch2,

I understand your frustration. I experienced it myself for months until i discovered that creating an ISO DOES "magically" fix the issue. As I said before, I've yet to NOT be able to process a BD with TrueHD.

Let me clarify as to what my method is:

1. While running AnyDVD HD, use TSmuxer to extract and mux only the main feature .m2ts file, and the master audio track (always in English as I live in the US) which, as you know, is one of several formats: AC3, LPCM, DTS-HD, or the dreaded TrueHD. I always check the option to "create blu-ray structure" in TSMuxer.
2. Once the folder (by default named BDMV) is created on my machine, I then create an .ISO of the entire folder with ImgBurn.
3. Mount this image with Daemon Tools and play with PowerDVD.

This entire process takes about 30-40 mintues and has yet to fail, assuming I am running the most up-to-date verision of AnyDVD.

Now, I undertand this may not work for those who are trying stream to a NAS, PS3, or 360, and unfortunatly I don't have a good solution for those people. But, for everyone using a HTPC, or burning to disc, this method works for every single BD disc I own (which is about 125 discs at this point).

[idbirch2]

This is EXACTLY the process I used and works beautifully... except for the 360/PS3....and standalone bluray players.

[QuadcoreHD]

@idbirch2,

I'll have to say that I don't have much experience with burning/playing on standalones...so I'll defer to you on that point for sure.

[SomeJoe]

Hi Gents,

I repeated my procedure with the latest version of Ts4Np, but unfortunately it still does not work. Same results as before:

Video playback is correct
Audio plays, shows "TrueHD" on both the standalone BD player and on the AV receiver
Audio is full of static (especially dialogue)
Low LFE output
No imaging or staging of the sound field
Possible problems with channel mapping


I guess at this time, the only option is to convert to PCM.

[mochevolete]

Hi Gents,

I repeated my procedure with the latest version of Ts4Np, but unfortunately it still does not work. Same results as before:

Video playback is correct
Audio plays, shows "TrueHD" on both the standalone BD player and on the AV receiver
Audio is full of static (especially dialogue)
Low LFE output
No imaging or staging of the sound field
Possible problems with channel mapping


I guess at this time, the only option is to convert to PCM.
unfortunately I confirm your frustration,
I've spent a whole week trying to backup/downsize The Dark Knight, that has the "infamous" True-HD track, using all sort of methods: Tsmuxer, Tsremux, Tn4sp, eac3to to PCM (all channels mixed up), and at last ... I converted the THD track to DTS, and I can assure you that I can't hear any difference...

So by now I'll stick with this result, waiting for a newer release of TSmuxeR :)

[cullinan]

SomeJoe
open the true-hd file "originalAudio.thd+ac3" with tsmuxer...demux it...tsmuxer will create an ac3-file....then mux the new ac3 file and the movie with tsmuxer...

[mochevolete]

wow you're a genius ..

maybe if someone wants to keep the THD track is interested in mantaining the maximum quality ?

[cullinan]

mochevolete
if you demux a true hd track from a blu-ray it's the same...tsmuxer creates an ac3-file, but keeps the true-hd quality...

true hd track demuxed from a bluray...

Complete name : feature_01 - 5 - TrueHD, English, 5.1 channels, 48khz.ac3
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Format profile : TrueHD
File size : 2,28 GiB

Audio
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Format profile : TrueHD
Bit rate mode : variabel
Channel(s) : 6 Kanäle
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48,0 KHz

true hd track from a hddvd...thd+ac3...
demuxed with eac3to...


Complete name : feature_01_MERGED.MLP.s01.thd+ac3
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Format profile : TrueHD
File size : 1,74 GiB

Audio
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Format profile : TrueHD
Bit rate mode : variabel
Channel(s) : 6 Kanäle
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48,0 KHz

the same track after demuxing with tsmuxer...(the track is renamed)...

Complete name : feature_01 - 5 - TrueHD, English, 5.1 channels, 48khz.ac3
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Format profile : TrueHD
File size : 1,74 GiB

Audio
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Format profile : TrueHD
Bit rate mode : variabel
Channel(s) : 6 Kanäle
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48,0 KHz

[MaXiMuS]

what is "ts4Np" ?

[Ryu77]

what is "ts4Np" ?

http://www.hdd-player.de/syabas/showthread.php?tid=2285

I hope you can read German.

[Ryu77]

SomeJoe
open the true-hd file "originalAudio.thd+ac3" with tsmuxer...demux it...tsmuxer will create an ac3-file....then mux the new ac3 file and the movie with tsmuxer...

What exactly are you saying? Do you really think there isn't somebody on here that has tried that?

tsMuxeR can not multiplex Dolby TrueHD correctly, period!

I am about to test multiplexing TrueHD with Sonic Scenarist. If that doesn't work then I don't know what will...

[magnop]

I am about to test multiplexing TrueHD with Sonic Scenarist. If that doesn't work then I don't know what will...

Did you suceeded to import TrueHD into MUI Generator?

[Digi]

Just my 2 cents but i agree TSmuxer and TrueHD do not mix at all it is broken full stop. But as many others have tried it does work on a PC/HTPC played back via Powerdvd 7/8 probably due to the fact that a PC/HTPC is more tolerant to little hiccups caused in the remux.

Now i do have a standalone blu ray player and can confirm that if just the main movie and HD audio are kept and TSremuxed burned to a BD-R or BD-RE they do not work with a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack, But the same .iso image played through my HTPC with powerdvd plays fine but i have found that Arcsoft TMT struggles with exactly the same file.

[Ryu77]

Did you suceeded to import TrueHD into MUI Generator?

No, the only option was for "Dolby Lossless". I am not sure if this is exactly the same thing as Dolby TrueHD but I can't think of anything else it would be.

However, Sonic still rejected the audio track. :-(

[vamsiklak]

seems like non of th softwares in the market aren't true-hd comptable
iam talking about rip/clone/ viceversa
the only software is anydvdhd that too rip the whole disc

hopw fully slysfot will release movie only with audio and subty options or like clone-bd with option of ripping only wanted tracks(video,audioand subty vice)
let see

[jamos]

Tsmuxer no matter what you do will not properly remux truehd in a bd format. Software players are more tolorent of this error. I am looking at the file now to see if its something easy to fix. Until then either not use true hd, or remux it to lpcm, if your planning on playing the disk in a standalone player. ps I have also tried to use tsremux but the audio and video is choppy using that.

[jamos]

TrueHD is broken in TSMuxer, try TS4Np, others have reported that works although I haven't tested it myself. I've been decompressing the TrueHD to PCM using eac3to and muxing the PCM in with TSMuxer.

I have gotten TSmuxer to work with True hd before. but some tracks it has issues with. So its not like its always broken. the problem is that you cant tell if its broken or not until you've burned it and tried it in a stand alone player so thats why its cheaper to convert to lpcm or just use ac3 (which i cant tell much diffence anyways and using avchd i would rather use the space for higher video bitrate).

[vamsiklak]

does the LPCM works with tsmuxer
how about dts-hd

[jamos]

does the LPCM works with tsmuxer
how about dts-hd

i know dts-hd does.

[jamos]

No, the only option was for "Dolby Lossless". I am not sure if this is exactly the same thing as Dolby TrueHD but I can't think of anything else it would be.

However, Sonic still rejected the audio track. :-(

You can get it to work by using eac3to.exe and extract the thd and the ac3 tracks from the original true hd track of the m2ts file. then use the mui generator to open the ac3 track first then choose the drop down for dolby lossless, then hit create files it will then prompt you for another file. that file is the thd file you extracted (just change the file name in the prompt).

[jacked]

You can get it to work by using eac3to.exe and extract the thd and the ac3 tracks from the original true hd track of the m2ts file. then use the mui generator to open the ac3 track first then choose the drop down for dolby lossless, then hit create files it will then prompt you for another file. that file is the thd file you extracted (just change the file name in the prompt).

I`ve just tried this method on a back-up of The Matrix HD-DVD, movie only with True HD, and it works perfectly on a standalone player + PS3.
Thanks very much for your advice.
:thanks:

[deank]

Can any one provide a 10-30sec sample of trueHD+video?

I tried this with multiAVCHD and it gave me a nice smooth output, containing the VC-1 video + all subtitles and all audio tracks.

It skipped a lot when playing the TrueHD track from Memory Stick... A lot less from ext USB HDD. Plays really smooth in Nero Showtime and with almost smooth :) in PS3. In fact I don't know if it is a audio problem or something else because my AV receiver flashes from Dolby to Stereo and back to Dolby for 200-300ms.

PS3 shows VC-1 bitrate of about 40Mbps which is really high IMO.

[newcomers]

I can also confirm that although PDVD will play True-HD, TMT will not, and that is using iso files too.

Looks like its either using PDVD and put up with the ff/rew problem, or use tmt and convert true-hd to ac3.

Is there a lot fo difference in sound quality between the 2?

Thanks

[jamos]

I can also confirm that although PDVD will play True-HD, TMT will not, and that is using iso files too.

Looks like its either using PDVD and put up with the ff/rew problem, or use tmt and convert true-hd to ac3.

Is there a lot fo difference in sound quality between the 2?

Thanks

IMHO we are being a bit anal here, but that is why we are here because we care about preserving original quality.:p the actual difference between true-hd and ac3 640 kbit is not much. If your a audiofile and have a $800+ receiver that handles HDMI audio input you will hear the difference but most won't. and according to AVCHD true-hd is not supported so if your going for most compatable leave it ac3.

[Digi]

IMHO we are being a bit anal here, but that is why we are here because we care about preserving original quality.:p the actual difference between true-hd and ac3 640 kbit is not much. If your a audiofile and have a $800+ receiver that handles HDMI audio input you will hear the difference but most won't. and according to AVCHD true-hd is not supported so if your going for most compatable leave it ac3.

If your playing an AVCHD authored disc on a Blu Ray standalone then you are correct that only Dolby Digital up to 640kbps is supported but as we all know the PS3 can play AVCHD encodes with Dolbytruehd and DTS-HD MA.

Personally if your going to remux then anything below BD25 is not worth the time or effort

[newcomers]

If your playing an AVCHD authored disc on a Blu Ray standalone then you are correct that only Dolby Digital up to 640kbps is supported but as we all know the PS3 can play AVCHD encodes with Dolbytruehd and DTS-HD MA.

Personally if your going to remux then anything below BD25 is not worth the time or effort

what do you mean by an "avchd" disc? I thought the True HD problem was a tsmuxer issue, or does it go beyond that? What ive decided to do at the moment is any title that has True HD, im just ripping it straight to image (exact copy) using anydvd, and anything else im using tsmuxer to keep main video and 1 audio track.

[Digi]

what do you mean by an "avchd" disc? I thought the True HD problem was a tsmuxer issue, or does it go beyond that? What ive decided to do at the moment is any title that has True HD, im just ripping it straight to image (exact copy) using anydvd, and anything else im using tsmuxer to keep main video and 1 audio track.

If you use TSMuxer to do any kind of stripping on a blu ray disc and then output a Blu ray structure, What you are actually getting is a Hybrid Blu Ray/AVCHD directory.

Have a search on the forums this has been well documented.

[idbirch2]

the actual difference between true-hd and ac3 640 kbit is not much. If your a audiofile and have a $800+ receiver that handles HDMI audio input you will hear the difference but most won't.This seems like a silly comment, you're saying lossless audio is no different to highly compressed audio when played back on equipment with no HDMI connectivity. Well, of course there's no difference then because without HDMI, the audio is stripped down to its AC3/DTS core.

Also, you could get away with saying that only audiophiles had HDMI receivers 2-3 years ago but that it not the case now.

[jamos]

This seems like a silly comment, you're saying lossless audio is no different to highly compressed audio when played back on equipment with no HDMI connectivity. Well, of course there's no difference then because without HDMI, the audio is stripped down to its AC3/DTS core.

Also, you could get away with saying that only audiophiles had HDMI receivers 2-3 years ago but that it not the case now.
I did not say no difference, I said not much unless you have good equipment. Most of the audio quality depends on the audio decoder/processor also (ps3 not so great). Now my Sony BDP-S5000ES outputing bitstream through HDMI to my Onkyo SR-806 reciever which does the TRUE-HD/DTS-MA decoding sounds sweet with lossless audio compared to ac3 640k.

[newcomers]

I did not say no difference, I said not much unless you have good equipment. Most of the audio quality depends on the audio decoder/processor also (ps3 not so great). Now my Sony BDP-S5000ES outputing bitstream through HDMI to my Onkyo SR-806 reciever which does the TRUE-HD/DTS-MA decoding sounds sweet with lossless audio compared to ac3 640k.

I also have an Onkyo, the 606. My HTPC (tmt) sends audio to the onkyo via hdmi. Like I said, for the time being, any discs with True HD i wont be touching until a fix has ben found

[idbirch2]

I did not say no difference, I said not much unless you have good equipment.You missed my point. Without good equipment, there is no difference.

[Ryu77]

idbirch2 & jamos, I can see both sides to the discussion here...

If your a audiofile and have a $800+ receiver that handles HDMI audio input you will hear the difference but most won't.

Well, of course there's no difference then because without HDMI, the audio is stripped down to its AC3/DTS core.

These both state that the only way to get lossless audio is with an AV Receiver with a HDMI audio decoder, which is not the case. It is possible to get lossless audio through multi channel analog connections. This is where the onboard DAC's will play the most important role. Obviously the PS3 isn't capable of this but there are quite a few stand alone BD Players and HTPC's that are.

There simply seems to be a mix up of words here and I know that you are both fully aware of the points I just made. I just felt that I could add some clarity to the discussion. I think all jamos was trying to say was that without good equipment you wont hear that much of a difference, which I agree on. One part I would like to comment on though...

the actual difference between true-hd and ac3 640 kbit is not much

I think with good quality equipment, the difference is quite substantial. I mean no disrespect here but unless you do have a high end setup, then it may be best to not make assumptions based on the differences heard with equipment not able to present lossless audio in it's full glory. jamos, it seems like you do have a good AV Reciever and BD Player (although speakers aren't mentioned), I would be truly surprised if you can not appreciate the merits of lossless audio.




You can get it to work by using eac3to.exe and extract the thd and the ac3 tracks from the original true hd track of the m2ts file. then use the mui generator to open the ac3 track first then choose the drop down for dolby lossless, then hit create files it will then prompt you for another file. that file is the thd file you extracted (just change the file name in the prompt).

Thank you for your reply here. Are you saying that I need to extract the TrueHD track and the AC3 track separately or extract one track with the TrueHD + AC3 core together? The way I understood your post is to extract them separately...

1) Extract TrueHD track.
2) Extract AC3 track.
3) Open MUI Generator.
4) Select AC3 from dropdown and navigate to AC3 track.
5) Change dropdown to Dolby Lossless.
6) Press create files, MUI Generator will prompt for another track.
7) Select TrueHD (.thd) track.

Is this correct?

[jamos]

Thank you for your reply here. Are you saying that I need to extract the TrueHD track and the AC3 track separately or extract one track with the TrueHD + AC3 core together? The way I understood your post is to extract them separately...

1) Extract TrueHD track.
2) Extract AC3 track.
3) Open MUI Generator.
4) Select AC3 from dropdown and navigate to AC3 track.
5) Change dropdown to Dolby Lossless.
6) Press create files, MUI Generator will prompt for another track.
7) Select TrueHD (.thd) track.

Is this correct?

Yes seperetly extracted from the TRUE-HD stream. Try it out and see if that works. Some here have said it does.

[newcomers]

where can I download MUI generator?

Thanks

[idbirch2]

MUI Generator is a component of Sonic Scenarist. You can't download it and Scenarist is an incredibly expensive piece of software.

[rica]

Hi guys.
Are you supposing you get bit-perfect output?
I don't think so.
This is why i did feature requests with no responses:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1244414#post1244414

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1244471#post1244471

http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=172282&postcount=2824

_ _ _ __

[spida_singh]

You could try tonmt, latest beta is 5.2.0 Link (http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showthread.php?tid=1786&page=1) for truehd

[rica]

You could try tonmt, latest beta is 5.2.0 Link (http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showthread.php?tid=1786&page=1) for truehd

You mean it makes bit-perfect streaming?

[spida_singh]

You mean it makes bit-perfect streaming?

I thought original thread was about backing up blu ray to m2ts retaining hd audio? If so, i remuxed iron man straight from disk, to a single m2ts, looked ok and played fine on the pc, have not made blu ray output and tested via disc, i could try, but have no blu ray burner.

[jamos]

MUI Generator is a component of Sonic Scenarist. You can't download it and Scenarist is an incredibly expensive piece of software.

and when he says incredibly he means it..like 24,000$..though older versions have been selling for around 5k.

[jamos]

You mean it makes bit-perfect streaming?

Um..I dont see how that program effects TrueHD at all as it just is some front end that uses TSmuxer which means it would have the same issues as TSmuxer with TrueHD.

[jamos]

I thought original thread was about backing up blu ray to m2ts retaining hd audio? If so, i remuxed iron man straight from disk, to a single m2ts, looked ok and played fine on the pc, have not made blu ray output and tested via disc, i could try, but have no blu ray burner.


The issue is not that TrueHD wont play on pcs it does, it just does not play on standalone players (PS3, Blu ray players). And the program you are showing uses TSmuxer to mux so it would have the same issues with TrueHD. And reading the thread it doesnt handle Truehd any better sugessting runing through TSNP after you run it through TSmuxer which may or may not work.

[spida_singh]

Im sure i read in the posts that this now uses it's own muxer, i maybe wrong, ill check properly and find out what this tool is capable of.

[asarian]

unfortunately I confirm your frustration,
I've spent a whole week trying to backup/downsize The Dark Knight, that has the "infamous" True-HD track, using all sort of methods: Tsmuxer, Tsremux, Tn4sp, eac3to to PCM (all channels mixed up),

Odd. I converted the "Dark Knight" TrueHD track to LPCM, using eac3to, just fine.

[asarian]

I think with good quality equipment, the difference is quite substantial. I mean no disrespect here but unless you do have a high end setup, then it may be best to not make assumptions based on the differences heard with equipment not able to present lossless audio in it's full glory.

I wouldn't even consider myself an audiophile per se, but even I can hear a clear difference between, say, a DTS stream @ 1536Kbps and 640Kbps AC3. And AC3 really, really loses out to TrueHD/DTS-MA. No comparison. Most of which I think Jamos actually agrees with. :) Just sayin'.

[Ryu77]

Has anyone at all been successful remuxing The Dark Knight with VC1 video track and Dolby TrueHD audio track?

I have tried so many different ways and still no success. It must be possible as there are torrents available to download a main movie remux with TrueHD. These torrents state that file size is about 30GB which is exactly what I come up with except the TrueHD track wont work with mine.

By the way Jamos, the Sonic method we discussed earlier looked as if it was going to work. At the point of what looked like the MUI Generator was about to finish doing it's job, it threw an exception and closed.

[peterjcat]

Has anyone at all been successful remuxing The Dark Knight with VC1 video track and Dolby TrueHD audio track?

I have tried so many different ways and still no success. It must be possible as there are torrents available to download a main movie remux with TrueHD. These torrents state that file size is about 30GB which is exactly what I come up with except the TrueHD track wont work with mine.

By the way Jamos, the Sonic method we discussed earlier looked as if it was going to work. At the point of what looked like the MUI Generator was about to finish doing it's job, it threw an exception and closed.

What do you want to play it on? For PCH playback TsRemux worked for me, as did eac3to+TsMuxeR+ts4Np.

[peterjcat]

Im sure i read in the posts that this now uses it's own muxer, i maybe wrong, ill check properly and find out what this tool is capable of.

That's right, ToNMT uses tsMuxeR only for HD DVD conversion and has its own routines for Blu-ray. It preserves the TrueHD rather well including in multiple-M2TS files (it may not correct TrueHD gaps/overlaps, but this doesn't seem to be possible even with eac3to).

[Ryu77]

What do you want to play it on? For PCH playback TsRemux worked for me, as did eac3to+TsMuxeR+ts4Np.

What is PCH? Is that Pop Corn Hour?

I have heard of a few saying that it will work on a PC but not when burnt to disc and played on a stand alone. I am not after this, I would like a fully compliant BD structure.

I just tried the "eac3to+TsMuxeR+ts4Np" method and ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre wont even start playing the movie, it just hangs.

[peterjcat]

What is PCH? Is that Pop Corn Hour?

I have heard of a few saying that it will work on a PC but not when burnt to disc and played on a stand alone. I am not after this, I would like a fully compliant BD structure.

I just tried the "eac3to+TsMuxeR+ts4Np" method and ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre wont even start playing the movie, it just hangs.

Sorry, yes PCH is Popcorn Hour. It looks like ts4Np may do something that fixes TrueHD for the PCH (and other networked media players?) but doesn't help with making a compliant BD.

[PassThePeas]

Just in case : the issue has been fixed.

CLI of tsMuxer is available here (ftp://213.221.6.90/tsMuxer/). No need to replace the GUI.

More info in the tsMuxer thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=134104&page=135)

[SomeJoe]

Just in case : the issue has been fixed.

CLI of tsMuxer is available here (ftp://213.221.6.90/tsMuxer/). No need to replace the GUI.

More info in the tsMuxer thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=134104&page=135)


Sorry, the issue isn't fixed as far as I'm concerned.

I tried again with the new tsMuxer (1.8.18), the audio still sounds like crap on playback from a standalone (Sony BDP-S350) and from a PCH when using TrueHD.

This is Iron Man region 1, the video (.h264), audio (.thd+ac3), and subtitles (.sup) all extracted from the original BD using eac3to.exe v3.11. Remuxed back together using tsMuxer 1.8.18, using the following .meta file:

MUXOPT --no-pcr-on-video-pid --new-audio-pes --blu-ray --vbr --custom-chapters=00:00:00.000;00:09:06.171;00:18:00.579;00:26:49.942;
00:35:01.850;00:43:15.259;00:52:38.489;00:59:24.644;01:07:32.423;01:11:44.300;01:18:31.206;01:24:40.575;01:35:00.111;01:44:29.346;
01:53:31.471 --vbv-len=500
V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC, "T:\IM\origVideo.h264", fps=23.976, insertSEI, contSPS
A_AC3, "T:\IM\newAudio.thd+ac3", lang=eng
S_HDMV/PGS, "T:\IM\origSub.sup", fps=23.976, lang=eng

Audio sounds exactly the same as it did with the old version of tsMuxer - very distorted dialogue, scratchy/interference-laced center channel, very little LFE output.

Sorry, but it looks and sounds to me like the writers of tsMuxer haven't fixed anything with this release.

[idbirch2]

Well it works fine for me, I've done several TrueHD titles now and they all play fine on the PS3. Maybe you should try removing a couple of non-standard variables to see if they are causing your problem. First, ditch the custom chapter list and second, rename your TrueHD stream to *.thd instead of *.thd+ac3.

[SomeJoe]

Well it works fine for me, I've done several TrueHD titles now and they all play fine on the PS3. Maybe you should try removing a couple of non-standard variables to see if they are causing your problem. First, ditch the custom chapter list and second, rename your TrueHD stream to *.thd instead of *.thd+ac3.

I will give that a try.

But didn't TrueHD always work on the PS3, even before the new v1.8.18 of TSMuxer? I thought it was only the standalones that were affected.

[idbirch2]

No, PS3 has always suffered as much as standalones. All the truehd titles I tried prior to 1.8.18 resulted in no sound. Let us know how you get on as I'd be surprised if standalones still have the problem.

[peterjcat]

This is Iron Man region 1, the video (.h264), audio (.thd+ac3), and subtitles (.sup) all extracted from the original BD using eac3to.exe v3.11. Remuxed back together using tsMuxer 1.8.18, using the following .meta file:

Audio sounds exactly the same as it did with the old version of tsMuxer - very distorted dialogue, scratchy/interference-laced center channel, very little LFE output.

Sorry, but it looks and sounds to me like the writers of tsMuxer haven't fixed anything with this release.

Iron Man TrueHD works fine for me on the PCH A110 with the new version of tsMuxeR using the same process (eac3to+tsMuxeR) -- before the new version I didn't get any sound at all. Is your receiver showing TrueHD and everything?

Also make sure you've turned off DRC/Quiet Mode/Late Night Mode on your receiver after you've started the movie playing -- Iron Man is known to trip DRC by default (maybe even if you have your receiver's DRC turned off by default) and badly implemented DRC may give the symptoms you describe.

[SomeJoe]

I tried again with the following .meta file:

MUXOPT --no-pcr-on-video-pid --new-audio-pes --blu-ray --vbr --vbv-len=500
V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC, "T:\IM\origVideo.h264", fps=23.976, insertSEI, contSPS
A_AC3, "T:\IM\newAudio.thd", lang=eng
S_HDMV/PGS, "T:\IM\origSub.sup", fps=23.976, lang=eng

i.e. No chapter points, audio file renamed to .thd instead of .thd+ac3.

This gives the same results, on BOTH a Sony BDP-S350 and a PCH A110.

The only difference I notice between this version of TSMuxer.exe (v1.8.18) and the old one (v1.8.8) is that the previous version would give me no audio at all on the AV receiver if I only used TSMuxer by itself. If I then remuxed with TSRemux/TS4Np, then I get the TrueHD to appear on the AV receiver, but the audio is distorted.

This new version of TSMuxer eliminates the need to do the TSRemux/TS4Np step -- I get TrueHD showing on the AV receiver directly from the output that TSMuxer makes, which is a small step forward. But the audio is definitely and obviously distorted. The initial dialogue in the Hummer at the very start of the film is unintelligible. It's perfectly clear when decoded to PCM.

I have my receiver's DRC turned off. As far as I know, it is not applying it. (This is a Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, by the way, both the Sony BDP-S350 and the PCH A110 are hooked to it via HDMI). However, this is much more than a DRC problem. The audio is not just quieter or less pronounced, it is distorted (in some places to the point of audible static).

I'm going to try another film. I own the original BD of Top Gun, which has both a TrueHD track and a DTS-HD MA track. I'll make 2 versions, one with the TrueHD track and one with the DTS-HD MA track and compare them. The DTS-HD MA track is a bit louder on the original, but otherwise should be identical.

I just don't understand how everyone can be saying that its working perfectly. I don't have particularly discerning ears or anything. In fact, for me, lossy DTS and the lossless audio formats sound identical, and I have a decent 5.1 system here (The Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K is exquisite, and my speakers, while about 10 years old, are not bargain basement by any means, but aren't Aperions either). The distortion is striking and very obvious -- not at all subtle. I don't see how anyone could miss it.

Which either means I'm doing something wrong, or ... well, I can't think of another reason. :-)

[idbirch2]

Hm, well someone else has reported success with a Sony s550 on the Slysoft forums and I'm sure I've seen someone mention it works with their PCH too so you are definitely doing something wrong. You say you "tried with the following meta file" - does that mean you're makeing the .meta file manually and running from a command line? If so, use TSMuxerGUI instead. If that's not the problem, I don't know what you're doing wrong.

[SomeJoe]

Hm, well someone else has reported success with a Sony s550 on the Slysoft forums and I'm sure I've seen someone mention it works with their PCH too so you are definitely doing something wrong. You say you "tried with the following meta file" - does that mean you're makeing the .meta file manually and running from a command line? If so, use TSMuxerGUI instead. If that's not the problem, I don't know what you're doing wrong.

I have used tsMuxer.exe from the command line before with some automated tools, but for this test, since I'm having problems, I've been using the tsMuxerGUI.exe to do everything. The .meta files I've posted are what the tsMuxerGUI.exe is creating.

It did occur to me that perhaps the TrueHD stream/muxing is not quite compliant, but close enough that most things don't have a problem with it -- except my Pioneer AV receiver. Does anyone else have a success story with TrueHD and the new TSMuxer and is using this particular AV receiver?

To test this theory, I'll make a small change tonight. I have my Sony BDP-S350 and my PCH A110 set to bitstream the audio to my Pioneer. Tonight I'll set them up to decode the audio to PCM internally and send PCM to the Pioneer and see if there's a difference.

[jamos]

I have used tsMuxer.exe from the command line before with some automated tools, but for this test, since I'm having problems, I've been using the tsMuxerGUI.exe to do everything. The .meta files I've posted are what the tsMuxerGUI.exe is creating.

It did occur to me that perhaps the TrueHD stream/muxing is not quite compliant, but close enough that most things don't have a problem with it -- except my Pioneer AV receiver. Does anyone else have a success story with TrueHD and the new TSMuxer and is using this particular AV receiver?

To test this theory, I'll make a small change tonight. I have my Sony BDP-S350 and my PCH A110 set to bitstream the audio to my Pioneer. Tonight I'll set them up to decode the audio to PCM internally and send PCM to the Pioneer and see if there's a difference.

Is it 16 bit or 24 bit truehd? I have seen this issue with 16bit truehd.

[SomeJoe]

OK Bingo!

I set my Sony BDP-S350 to decode the audio internally to PCM instead of bitstreaming the audio to the AV receiver. This immediately fixed the distortion issue. I tried the same thing on the PCH A110, that also fixed the distortion issue. Both playback devices claimed they were decoding TrueHD, not just the AC3 core. AV receiver showed PCM 5.1 (from Sony) or 7.1 (from PCH).

However (there's always a caveat, isn't there?), I also have the audio from this movie (Iron Man) done as lossy 1536Kbps DTS (extracted as PCM using eac3to.exe, and encoded using SurCode DTS). So I've been comparing the following:

1. AV receiver-decoded TrueHD from the original BD (source: Sony BDP-S350)
2. AV receiver-decoded TrueHD after being remuxed by TSMuxer.exe (source: Sony BDP-S350 and PCH A110)
3. Playback device-decoded TrueHD after being remuxed by TSMuxer.exe (source: Sony BDP-S350 and PCH A110)
4. AV receiver-decoded DTS after being remuxed by TSMuxer.exe (source: Sony BDP-S350 and PCH A110)

These result in the following sound fields (subjective):

1. Flawless. Crisp dialogue, impactful LFE, wide and defined surround field.
2. Distorted, low-LFE, little surround effect, and possible channel-mapping problems (exchanged Right Front and Right Rear?)
3. No distortion, crisp dialogue. LFE sounds less impactful, but could be the result of inability to control Dolby DRC on the Sony and PCH. But, surround field sounds flat. Not very much positioning of sound.
4. To my ears, sounds identical to #1. Crisp dialogue, impactful LFE, wide and defined surround field.

I'm going to do another TrueHD movie to compare, but I only own the following BDs with TrueHD tracks:

1. Iron Man
2. Top Gun
3. Risky Business
4. Starship Troopers
5. Blade Runner (Final Cut)

It will take me some time, because to compare these on the Sony BDP-S350 I have to burn to a BD-RE which is slow.

At this point, my preliminary conclusion is that the TrueHD muxing the TSMuxer.exe v1.8.18 is doing is not 100% compliant. It's close enough that some devices can play it mostly correctly, although there is a loss of surround fidelity, and some devices have severe problems resulting in distortion.

I would like others who may share my hardware/equipment and/or the BDs that I listed above to conduct their own similar tests to gather some more data.

Is it 16 bit or 24 bit truehd? I have seen this issue with 16bit truehd.

As far as I know, TrueHD always stores everything internally as 24 bit. The master source material may not have had that much resolution, however.

[peterjcat]

OK Bingo!
I set my Sony BDP-S350 to decode the audio internally to PCM instead of bitstreaming the audio to the AV receiver. This immediately fixed the distortion issue. I tried the same thing on the PCH A110, that also fixed the distortion issue. Both playback devices claimed they were decoding TrueHD, not just the AC3 core. AV receiver showed PCM 5.1 (from Sony) or 7.1 (from PCH).


The PCH is only decoding 2 channels of TrueHD (it can only ever decode 2 channels of anything to PCM) and leaving the other channels blank, which would explain why the LFE and surrounds were affected on that device at least. Did you really hear no difference between the Sony and the PCH?

I would tend to agree with your conclusion that tsMuxeR is not 100% compliant, or else the Pio is overly sensitive, or both. But have you tried playing an unremuxed Blu-ray M2TS file via the PCH? Just for some more confirmation.

[jamos]

As far as I know, TrueHD always stores everything internally as 24 bit. The master source material may not have had that much resolution, however.

No, there are 16 bit Truehd streams out there (Appaloosa is one example).

You are bitstreaming through your HDMI to a True-hd capable decoder on your reciever and not a optical cable, correct?

[SomeJoe]

The PCH is only decoding 2 channels of TrueHD (it can only ever decode 2 channels of anything to PCM) and leaving the other channels blank, which would explain why the LFE and surrounds were affected on that device at least. Did you really hear no difference between the Sony and the PCH?

I would tend to agree with your conclusion that tsMuxeR is not 100% compliant, or else the Pio is overly sensitive, or both. But have you tried playing an unremuxed Blu-ray M2TS file via the PCH? Just for some more confirmation.


You are absolutely correct, sir. Well done, and excellent suggestions.

OK, here are my latest findings:

1. Yes, the PCH, when set to decode TrueHD internally, only decodes to 2-channel PCM (even though the receiver display shows 7.1 being received, the C, SL, SR, BL, BR, and LFE channels are silent. Only FL and FR are active). This explains the lack of surround field during playback in that mode.

2. When set for internal decoding and PCM output, the Sony's internal DRC was interfering enough with playback such that the surround field wasn't audible until volume was turned up significantly more than what I was listening to when the audio was bitstreamed. After raising the volume to a proper level, the surround field sounds correct here.

Thus, the conclusion is that the surround field and LFE output are proper when the decoding is done by the Sony (and probably by the PCH as well, but that's impossible to tell since the output is 2-channel).

3. I tried taking the original .m2ts file from Iron Man (00010.m2ts) and playing it back on the PCH without anything being done to it. This plays back perfectly on the PCH when bitstreaming the TrueHD to the Pioneer.


To me, this proves exactly what you said: 1) The muxing isn't 100% compliant, or 2) The Pioneer has a flaw/bug in TrueHD decoding, or 3) some combination. I would wager #1, as I have not had any problem with any original BDs containing TrueHD tracks.

[SomeJoe]

You are bitstreaming through your HDMI to a True-hd capable decoder on your reciever and not a optical cable, correct?

Yes, of course. The Pioneer would not show TrueHD on the display unless the audio was coming over HDMI. Both the Sony BDP-S350 and the PCH A110 are connected via HDMI.

[lchiu7]

OK Bingo!

I set my Sony BDP-S350 to decode the audio internally to PCM instead of bitstreaming the audio to the AV receiver. This immediately fixed the distortion issue. I tried the same thing on the PCH A110, that also fixed the distortion issue. Both playback devices claimed they were decoding TrueHD, not just the AC3 core. AV receiver showed PCM 5.1 (from Sony) or 7.1 (from PCH)...

I had no idea the PCH A110 could decode TrueHD (or DTS HD Master). I thought with its HDMI 1.3 connection and internal firmware, all it could do was bitstream those lossless codecs relying on your AVR to decode. The PS3 OTOH decodes both codecs internally and outputs LPCM

[SomeJoe]

I had no idea the PCH A110 could decode TrueHD (or DTS HD Master).


Yes, it can, however, as posted prior, it will only decode the front left and front right channels to PCM (2.0 sound). So you do not get 5.1 when in this mode.

To get 5.1 from the PCH with these audio codecs, you must bitstream.

[lchiu7]

Yes, it can, however, as posted prior, it will only decode the front left and front right channels to PCM (2.0 sound). So you do not get 5.1 when in this mode.

To get 5.1 from the PCH with these audio codecs, you must bitstream.

Are you sure it's not just outputting the core AC3 stream?

[SomeJoe]

Are you sure it's not just outputting the core AC3 stream?

It claims on the on-screen display that it is decoding TrueHD. Whether that's true or not, I have no idea.

[lchiu7]

It claims on the on-screen display that it is decoding TrueHD. Whether that's true or not, I have no idea.

I suspect not since there would be significant code in the PCH to do that. After all it took Sony in the PS3 some programming effort to decode TrueHD and output it as PCM and they have significantly more resources than Syabas.

I have a A100 and if I play a title with TrueHD audio I don't get any sound. Now I am not using HDMI but optical but if it were truly able to handle TrueHD I would have thought it would output the AC3 core over optical as the PS3 does.

I have seen notes in the Syabsa forums that the A110 won't output TrueHD even if it's in the track unless there is a companion AC3 track even if you don't need it. Worth a try

[SomeJoe]

I suspect not since there would be significant code in the PCH to do that. After all it took Sony in the PS3 some programming effort to decode TrueHD and output it as PCM and they have significantly more resources than Syabas.

I have a A100 and if I play a title with TrueHD audio I don't get any sound. Now I am not using HDMI but optical but if it were truly able to handle TrueHD I would have thought it would output the AC3 core over optical as the PS3 does.

I have seen notes in the Syabsa forums that the A110 won't output TrueHD even if it's in the track unless there is a companion AC3 track even if you don't need it. Worth a try

Well, it's really a moot point anyway. No matter which portion of the TrueHD stream it's decoding (the lossless part or the core), it either results in 2-channel output (when decoding internally), or distorted audio (when bitstreaming), neither of which are acceptable.

I'll continue to use PCM or DTS audio until such time as TSMuxer.exe is 100% compliant when muxing a TrueHD stream.

[lchiu7]

Well, it's really a moot point anyway. No matter which portion of the TrueHD stream it's decoding (the lossless part or the core), it either results in 2-channel output (when decoding internally), or distorted audio (when bitstreaming), neither of which are acceptable.

I'll continue to use PCM or DTS audio until such time as TSMuxer.exe is 100% compliant when muxing a TrueHD stream.

According to the latest threads on the NMT forums, talking about the tonmt tool which was written specifically to get HD content to the PCH, TrueHD works fine. You might want to check it out. Also the latest beta release of tsmuxer has fixed TrueHD problems when targetting AVCHD content for the PS3.

[SomeJoe]

According to the latest threads on the NMT forums, talking about the tonmt tool which was written specifically to get HD content to the PCH, TrueHD works fine. You might want to check it out. Also the latest beta release of tsmuxer has fixed TrueHD problems when targetting AVCHD content for the PS3.

Yes, I tried ToNMT and it seems to mux TrueHD perfectly. But it only creates a .ts stream, not a Blu-Ray structure suitable for burning.

Again, as I've discussed in this thread, TSMuxer.exe does not create a proper stream with TrueHD (yes, even the new version, 1.8.18).

The "QuickFix.cmd" batch file (which calls a Java class) used to be able to patch the .m2ts file that TSMuxer.exe creates such that TrueHD works properly, but the author has disabled the TrueHD fix code in the latest ToNMT version. :mad:

[idbirch2]

The old .jar and cmd file are still available for download here (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?agdhqjmjenm).

[SomeJoe]

The old .jar and cmd file are still available for download here (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?agdhqjmjenm).

Cool, thanks!

I'll try this for TrueHD muxing ... it should definitely work on the PCH, but I'm more interested in whether it fixes TrueHD for the standalone Sony.

[lchiu7]

Yes, I tried ToNMT and it seems to mux TrueHD perfectly. But it only creates a .ts stream, not a Blu-Ray structure suitable for burning.

Again, as I've discussed in this thread, TSMuxer.exe does not create a proper stream with TrueHD (yes, even the new version, 1.8.18).

The "QuickFix.cmd" batch file (which calls a Java class) used to be able to patch the .m2ts file that TSMuxer.exe creates such that TrueHD works properly, but the author has disabled the TrueHD fix code in the latest ToNMT version. :mad:

Can't you rerun tsmuxer on the ts file and change the output format to m2ts or even AVCHD?

I can't say it's working properly since my setup isn't quite right but I have done the following.

Muxed a movie into m2ts format (using the latest beta of tsmuxer). Ran multiAVCHD to create a AVCHD folder and copied that to a USB drive.

Had my PS3 audio output set to optical (which all I have at the moment). When the folder is played the audio is audible and noted as Multichannel Dolby or something like that

Then changed the output settings to HDMI. Now I don't get any audio (no HDMI connector to my AVC) but info shows Dolby TrueHD. Of course the sound could be crap - I just can't check at the moment till I get motivated and install my new AVR that can handle MLPCM output.

[idbirch2]

That doesn't really tell us anything new, it's already been established that the PS3 handles the new TSMuxer's TrueHD output just fine. The problem is that stand alone players still seem to be struggling which is making most of us think that TSMuxer still isn't outputting fully compliant TrueHD streams.

Did you get round to testing it SomeJoe?

[SomeJoe]

That doesn't really tell us anything new, it's already been established that the PS3 handles the new TSMuxer's TrueHD output just fine. The problem is that stand alone players still seem to be struggling which is making most of us think that TSMuxer still isn't outputting fully compliant TrueHD streams.

Did you get round to testing it SomeJoe?

Haven't been able to yet, but I'll see if I can try it tonight. Gotta dig out the Iron Man BD again ... :)

[SomeJoe]

Did you get round to testing it SomeJoe?

Was able to try again and test the QuickFix2.cmd -- still no go. Didn't work on the PCH or the standalone.

There's something just fundamentally wrong with what TSMuxer is doing with TrueHD.

At this point, the only thing that's ever worked for me with TrueHD is ToNMT 5.4.3 when playing through the PCH. No other program, method, or playback device combination has properly reproduced a TrueHD stream.

[lchiu7]

That doesn't really tell us anything new, it's already been established that the PS3 handles the new TSMuxer's TrueHD output just fine. ..

So the PS3 is more tolerant of potential non compliant streams?

[jacked]

Hello All,
Has anyone come across this before ?
I have been using the Scenarist method as highlighted here, Originally Posted by jamos
You can get it to work by using eac3to.exe and extract the thd and the ac3 tracks from the original true hd track of the m2ts file. then use the mui generator to open the ac3 track first then choose the drop down for dolby lossless, then hit create files it will then prompt you for another file. that file is the thd file you extracted (just change the file name in the prompt)., for TrueHD backups and they played fine on a PS3. The PS3 audio is set to pcm, the onscreen display says TrueHD and it sounds as it should.
I now have my Pioneer BDP-95FD on bitstream and the audio is incredibly quiet, to the point where if you turned the amp volume way up there`s still something amiss. If you pause the disc and then press play, for that first split millisecond you can hear the audio trying to come through correctly but then goes incredibly quiet again. I have tried this with the PS3 audio on bitstream and get the same fault so it does seem to be some sort of bitstream issue. Subsequently, I`ve now tried the TSMuxer BD Clown method with their latest versions and still get audio that you can barely hear on bitstream.
Does anyone please have any ideas on this and how I can correct it ?
Thanks very much.
Dave

[jacked]

Hello All,
Has anyone come across this before ?
I have been using the Scenarist method as highlighted here, Originally Posted by jamos
You can get it to work by using eac3to.exe and extract the thd and the ac3 tracks from the original true hd track of the m2ts file. then use the mui generator to open the ac3 track first then choose the drop down for dolby lossless, then hit create files it will then prompt you for another file. that file is the thd file you extracted (just change the file name in the prompt)., for TrueHD backups and they played fine on a PS3. The PS3 audio is set to pcm, the onscreen display says TrueHD and it sounds as it should.
I now have my Pioneer BDP-95FD on bitstream and the audio is incredibly quiet, to the point where if you turned the amp volume way up there`s still something amiss. If you pause the disc and then press play, for that first split millisecond you can hear the audio trying to come through correctly but then goes incredibly quiet again. I have tried this with the PS3 audio on bitstream and get the same fault so it does seem to be some sort of bitstream issue. Subsequently, I`ve now tried the TSMuxer BD Clown method with their latest versions and still get audio that you can barely hear on bitstream.
Does anyone please have any ideas on this and how I can correct it ?
Thanks very much.
Dave

Has anyone got any ideas please ?
:thanks:

[idbirch2]

Are you using the latest TSMuxer (1.8.34 I think)? You certainly shouldn't be having any problems with PS3 playback if you are as TrueHD output was fixed in version 1.8.30. You shouldn't need to bother with Scenarist any more either, give it a try. I've done several TrueHD titles with new the TSMuxer and all have played back fine on my PS3.

[jacked]

Are you using the latest TSMuxer (1.8.34 I think)? You certainly shouldn't be having any problems with PS3 playback if you are as TrueHD output was fixed in version 1.8.30. You shouldn't need to bother with Scenarist any more either, give it a try. I've done several TrueHD titles with new the TSMuxer and all have played back fine on my PS3.

Yes, I`ve tried the latest versions.
Do you have your PS3 on bitstream ? If I put my players on internal decoding then they work fine, it`s when I set them to bitstream the problem occurs.

[idbirch2]

PS3 can't bitsream TrueHD so it's decoding internally. I've had this discussion with a friend at work before, what is the obsession with wanting to see the TrueHD LED light up on your amp? It makes no difference if the audio is decompressed by the player or the amp, the decompressed content is exactly the same. So if it works with the player doing the decoding....let the player do the decoding - hooray, problem solved.

[SomeJoe]

PS3 can't bitsream TrueHD so it's decoding internally. I've had this discussion with a friend at work before, what is the obsession with wanting to see the TrueHD LED light up on your amp? It makes no difference if the audio is decompressed by the player or the amp, the decompressed content is exactly the same. So if it works with the player doing the decoding....let the player do the decoding - hooray, problem solved.

That is very true, provided that your decoding device doesn't then do something to the PCM audio after it's decoded that you don't want.

There are many devices out there that will decode TrueHD (or DTS-MA) internally to PCM, then apply volume changes, sound mixing, DRC, Dialnorm, equalization, or other things to the audio, and many times you can't fully control that. This is one reason why I prefer to bitstream, even though my hardware player can decode internally. My AVR is a dedicated audio processing device, and can be set to apply or not apply all of those things to the audio, giving me full control. Since the other devices like BD set-top players are first and foremost designed as playback devices and not audio processing devices, their exposed user controls for the audio are limited.

[SomeJoe]

My apologies for the very late update on this. Been very busy at work. :)

I have indeed finally solved this problem. It is indeed eac3to.exe's issue, and the root of the problem is the removal of dialogue normalization.

Eac3to removes dialogue normalization by default. When it does that, the sound is distorted when played through my Pioneer receiver.

Adding "-keepdialnorm" on the eac3to.exe command line has completely fixed the problem. I've tried my particularly problematic TrueHD track (Iron Man) which was very obviously distorted when played back after a demux with eac3to.exe and a remux with TSMuxer. The TrueHD track now plays perfectly and identically to the original when the -keepdialnorm option is used during the eac3to.exe demux.

This must be something particular to Pioneer receivers, evidently they pay very close attention to the dialogue normalization metadata and get confused if the values are incorrect, missing, etc.