Post MKBv9 Blu-Rays here

[ggking7]

Home Alone
Encounters at the End of the World
Step Brothers

[Doom9]

Please explain to me how this does not go counter to my explicit ruling that asking for keys is not tolerated.

[ggking7]

I read:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=121780

and I don't see how this is related. I'm not asking for a key, I'm just trying to figure out which Blu-Rays not to buy before I buy them. Maybe I should have started a list of Blu-Rays that can't be backed up except in AnyDVD?

[ggking7]

Could someone clarify this? No one is going to post the titles of Blu-Rays protected with MKBv9 after a message like that from Doom9, but I think he misunderstood the topic (my fault). I'm surprised we don't have an MKBv9 title list already and it would be extremely useful.

[Doom9]

Your explanation is satisfactory.
However, I don't see the point of keeping a list since
a) AnyDVD HD can handle them just fine
b) new MKB versions come out at a certain date and every disc produced after that date will have the new MKB. So, it should be pretty easy to browse through the Slysoft forum and spot the first disc.
c) would anybody seriously not buy a title just for that? As I said.. AnyDVD HD handles it so that settles it for those with just PC playback, and there's always the option of using a standalone player or just using a system with suitable hardware.
d) you're a far cry from actually being able to properly play a Blu-ray disc on Linux.. I most certainly wouldn't settle for being able to play an m2ts without as much as audio selection (even on Windows playing mere m2ts files can e no good if your player manages to pick the wrong audio track). And it was your choice to use an OS that's not really on Hollywood's support list (yeah I don't like it either but such is life - I had to upgrade GFX card and monitor to be able to play everything I liked, too).

[ggking7]

new MKB versions come out at a certain date and every disc produced after that date will have the new MKB. So, it should be pretty easy to browse through the Slysoft forum and spot the first disc.

That should work. It looks like we've got a list of historical Blu-Ray release dates here:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/releasedates_historical.html

If what you say is true, if I can figure out when MKBv9 came out I'll know exactly which discs have MKBv9 and should therefore not be purchased by me since I use Linux only. I just browsed around the Slysoft forum but I'm not sure how to use it to find the first MKBv9 disc as you suggest. Can you tell me how to do that?

The earliest disc on the list I know is MKBv9 is "Encounters at the End of the World" on November 18th.

[ggking7]

Unfortunately that doesn't seem to hold true. "Fred Claus" is not MKBv9 and came out after "Encounters at the End of the World".

[woah!]

i think you are confused, the v9 mkb is handled ok by anydvdhd from what i have seen. what isnt is new BD+ discs from FOX. as fox are the only producers using BD+...

[Doom9]

I'm afraid I wasn't entirely accurate... production dates don't necessarily run in synch with release dates.. so it might be that a disc mastered prior to MKBv9 could still come out later than discs mastered with MKBv9 - I think the safest bet would be to look at the date of the files in the AACS directory.

[Rusty100]

The Australian Copy of The Dark Knight and American Psycho.

[ni9ht_5ta1k3r]

The fact that the AU version of TDK is annoying!!!!

[kkloster21]

The Day the Earth Stood Still
Wall-E
Tropic Thunder
Firefly

[ggking7]

How about this? If we can determine the earliest released MKBv9 disc and the latest released MKBv9 disc, we'll be able to put all discs into 3 categories:

1. definitely not MKBv9
2. maybe MKBv9
3. definitely MKBv9

The earliest released disc mentioned thus far is "Firefly" (thanks kkloster21) on November 11th. The latest disc I know of that isn't MKBv9 is "Fred Claus" on November 25th. Based on this, we can surmise:

1. definitely not MKBv9 (before Nov. 11th)
2. maybe MKBv9 (Nov. 11th - Nov. 25th)
3. definitely MKBv9 (after Nov. 25th)

Again, the historical Blu-Ray release dates are here:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/releasedates_historical.html

Can anyone point out a disc that was released before November 11th with MKBv9 or after November 25th without MKBv9?

As long as Doom9 doesn't object, I'll update the original post with this info.

[SuperGoof]

'Wall E' (Nov 18), 'Narnia 2: Prince Caspian' (Dec 2) - definitely v9
'Hancock' (Nov 25), 'Wanted' (Dec 2), 'X Files', both 'I Want to Believe' and 'Fight the Future' (Dec 2) - definitely v8

[kkloster21]

I agree with Doom9 that it is more complicated than simply looking at the release date of the title. what really matters is when the disc was mastered.

for example, the release date of Firefly was November 11th but the master date on the disc was September 9th.

Casablanca (which is MKBv3) was released on December 2nd but the master date was May 17th, 2007 (which no doubt has something to do with the much earlier HD-DVD release of this title).

The Shawshank Redemption (which is MKBv4) was released on December 2nd also (but it was delayed from November 4th) - the master date on the disc is January 23 2008.

to make things more difficult, Kung Fu Panda (which is MKBv8) was released November 9th and the disc was mastered on September 24th (mastered after Firefly).

Tropic Thunder was released November 18th and mastered on October 10th.

Wall-E (which i mentioned in post #12) was released on November 18th but was mastered on September 21st.

this seems to indicate that the date that MKBv9 was implemented is sometime between September 9th and September 21st. The problem is that we can't know for sure (based on release date alone) when the discs were mastered (without buying them of course). The only thing that seems sure is that new movies (that are coming from the theaters) from now on are likely to be at least MKBv9, since they can't have been mastered before September 21st. Sadly, things are looking a bit grim for Linux only users.

[ggking7]

'Wanted' (Dec 2), 'X Files', both 'I Want to Believe' and 'Fight the Future' (Dec 2) - definitely v8

That changes things:

1. definitely not MKBv9 (before Nov. 11th)
2. maybe MKBv9 (Nov. 11th - Dec. 2nd)
3. definitely MKBv9 (after Dec. 2nd)

[ggking7]

I agree with Doom9 that it is more complicated than simply looking at the release date of the title. what really matters is when the disc was mastered.
Definitely, but we have a database of release dates and not mastering dates. We currently have a "maybe" range between Nov. 11th and December 2nd. We could compile a list of discs within that range and whether or not they are MKBv9. Then we'd have a 100% accurate list.

[kkloster21]

but blu-rays that are catalog releases (new releases of older movies) may still have been mastered before Sept 9th and would therefore not yet be MKBv9. i think your maybe range is going to be extended with some of the releases this coming tuesday. my bet is that "Bottle Rocket" and/or "The Third Man" will not be MKBv9.

[ggking7]

The worst-case scenario is that our "maybe" date range widens and we have to compile a longer list of discs. The other option is to throw out the maybe dates completely and compile a list of every disc and whether or not it's MKBv9.

[kkloster21]

as far as new movie releases go, i think you can probably draw a line on a calendar as you are currently doing. for catalog releases however, i think it would be better to have a list.

[ggking7]

I'm into a full list. In fact, that was the point of my original post. I could copy/paste the entire Blu-Ray release list into the original post and annotate it with "MKBv9" or "not MKBv9" as people post their findings.

Sadly, things are looking a bit grim for Linux only users.
Do you think "grim" is the right word? It looks like MKBv9 has only been out for about a month. How long did the previous keys take to appear?

[kkloster21]

i keep a complete list of exactly what MKBv my discs are. i'm willing to share whatever info you want. it might even be a good idea to update your original post with the entire current list, just to make it more accessible. its your thread of course.

[ggking7]

OK, here we go.

[ggking7]

Alright, the post is too long and it won't let me submit. I'm going to start a new thread and the first 3 or 4 posts will be all the necessary info.

[ggking7]

In case you missed it, Doom9 is against an MKBv9 list since it caters to "a few diehard Windows haters". I recommend using this hopefully accurate set of definitions:

1. definitely not MKBv9 (before Nov. 11th)
2. maybe MKBv9 (Nov. 11th - Dec. 2nd)
3. definitely MKBv9 (after Dec. 2nd)

along with this:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/releasedates_historical.html

[derbeDeus]

the uk James Bond package has 2 mkbv9 and 4 mkbv8 films, so there is no rule.

[ggking7]

Do you know when it was released?

[64kb]

Your explanation is satisfactory.
However, I don't see the point of keeping a list since
c) would anybody seriously not buy a title just for that? As I said.. AnyDVD HD handles it so that settles it for those with just PC playback, and there's always the option of using a standalone player or just using a system with suitable hardware.

Great, AnyDVD HD plays those BluRays but what about the Linux users like me who want to play their legally obtained BluRays with Linux?

[Doom9]

AnyDVD HD plays those BluRays but what about the Linux users like me who want to play their legally obtained BluRays with Linux? You also need a legally licensed playback device. I have a valid license for WinDVD8, WinDVD9, Nero8 with HD plugin, PowerDVD 7 (3 licenses even), PowerDVD8 and TMT. How many licenses do you have?

[loric]

You also need a legally licensed playback device. I have a valid license for WinDVD8, WinDVD9, Nero8 with HD plugin, PowerDVD 7 (3 licenses even), PowerDVD8 and TMT. How many licenses do you have?

I am a Linux user and I have a valid license for PowerDVD HD, one for TMT and one for an Acer BD player based (I think) on PowerDVD. But, as I said, I am a Linux user, hence I never boot to Windows, hence I never use those program (my plasma panel apparently is not fully HDCP compliant, so...)

But that's not the real point.

Demanding that a legally purchased BD can be played on Linux is like demanding that a legally purchased XBOX360 game can be played on a PS3.

On the other hand, we all know why, at least officially, "DVD Jon" broke the CSS encryption scheme. I guess we all owe him a lot.

I believe that both opinions have some merit.

[Gusar]

You also need a legally licensed playback device.Why? I don't have one for DVDs. All I have is Linux and MPlayer. And thanks to libdvdcss, can play all my legally bought and paid for DVDs. This won't change once I jump on the Blu-ray bandwagon, only that DumpHD (or something similar) will replace libdvdcss. Why would I need some industry approved player? Isn't the point of this site to free us from the shackles of the industry?

Demanding that a legally purchased BD can be played on Linux is like demanding that a legally purchased XBOX360 game can be played on a PS3.This is not a valid comparison. There's a lot more than DRM that prevents running an XBOX game on a PS3. But the only thing standing between MPlayer and a DVD/Blu-ray is DRM.

[Doom9]

well.. if you have a valid license for everything (I'd add that hdcp be a requirement as well.. though I'd give you a 22" DHCP capable PC screen as satisfying that requirement) - but since you have valid windows player licenses, why are you so filled with hate for Microsoft that you cannot boot into windows just to rip a disc? After all, Linux in no way plays your discs in any way or fashion they're supposed to be played. Navigation? Failure, DTS HD MA? Failure, BD-J? Failure, BD-Live? Failure Any menus? Failure. And if you can happily live with all that drawbacks, then why oh why can't you live with the fact that you need Windows to rip the disc? I'm unaware of any instance where running Windows has casued any bodily harm to any Linux user. I have pages of reasons of why Linux sucks but guess what.. in some instances I have no choice but to fire it up because such is life and I can either cry and moan about it like a little kid or be grown up about it and just do it the way I know it will work out.
With any copy protected disc based media, but especially HD discs, you never buy the right to play it the way you like it inside the box.. that's something you have to get elsewhere. Thankfully, that elsewhere seems pretty clearly defined.
Do we need to keep lists of DVDs that libcss cannot handle next (structural protections are OS independent after all)? Then what.. a list of DRM schemes you can only circumvent using tools that run on Windows? Then a list of your favorite Windows tools that need porting to linux? And I could go on all day except I should be resting to get rid of the remnants of my stomach flu.

Why? I don't have one for DVDsNot even a standalone DVD player sitting somewhere? If not, you're guilty of patent infringement right there. Nobody owes you to give you their patents for free - some companies actually spent money developing DVDs and they reap the benefits in terms of the licensing fees they get. And playback was always consistent of a hardware component to reading the physical disc, hardware for manufacturing, software for authoring and software for playback. Number two and three are implicit and included in the price of the disc, but you still need a device to read the disc (which includes that part of the licensing fees) and a software. If you have no licensed player software you're cheating somebody out of his money and that's definitely not the point of this site. If you have all the necessary components paid for, then it shouldn't matter on how you see fit to make use of your legally purchased content, but as long as you're missing one of the required components, that makes you no better than people who upload copyrighted stuff of which they are not the copyright owner and don't have a license to do so to P2P networks.

[loric]

well.. if you have a valid license for everything (I'd add that hdcp be a requirement as well.. though I'd give you a 22" DHCP capable PC screen as satisfying that requirement) - but since you have valid windows player licenses, why are you so filled with hate for Microsoft that you cannot boot into windows just to rip a disc?

Where did I write that I hate Windows and/or Microsoft? Probably you're confusing me with someone else.

After all, Linux in no way plays your discs in any way or fashion they're supposed to be played. Navigation? Failure, DTS HD MA? Failure, BD-J? Failure, BD-Live? Failure Any menus? Failure. And if you can happily live with all that drawbacks, then why oh why can't you live with the fact that you need Windows to rip the disc?

We're talking about movies, not about food. It's true, I can't play BD movies on my Linux HTPC, but I am not angry at the world because of that. I am sticking to DVDs. I have more than 500 DVDs (they're all original; no rips, no "backups") and they can be played in Linux with no problems. Actually my Linux HTPC is better than most standalone players, it does upscaling, it applies post-processing filters and the quality is great. The day I can play BDs in Linux (including menus and special features) I will start buying BDs. Till then I'll be fine with DVDs. And the reason is I don't wanna trash my plasma panel, which is good enough fo HD content, and I wanna be able to purchase movies from whatever region of the world I can think of. Seriously, you won't start defending region locks too, will you? But I stress that I don't "demand" anything. The BD corporations make their choice, I make mine, and my choice doesn't harm them in any way (unless the fact I am not buying their products but simpe DVDs can be considered an unjust damage).

I have pages of reasons of why Linux sucks but guess what.. in some instances I have no choice but to fire it up because such is life and I can either cry and moan about it like a little kid or be grown up about it and just do it the way I know it will work out.

Did you see me crying? I guess not, so I can't see your point there.
[...]
Not even a standalone DVD player sitting somewhere? If not, you're guilty of patent infringement right there. Nobody owes you to give you their patents for free - some companies actually spent money developing DVDs and they reap the benefits in terms of the licensing fees they get. And playback was always consistent of a hardware component to reading the physical disc, hardware for manufacturing, software for authoring and software for playback. Number two and three are implicit and included in the price of the disc, but you still need a device to read the disc (which includes that part of the licensing fees) and a software. If you have no licensed player software you're cheating somebody out of his money and that's definitely not the point of this site. If you have all the necessary components paid for, then it shouldn't matter on how you see fit to make use of your legally purchased content, but as long as you're missing one of the required components, that makes you no better than people who upload copyrighted stuff of which they are not the copyright owner and don't have a license to do so to P2P networks.

You're totally missing the point. If you play an original DVD using open source software, you're not stealing a single cent. In fact you're not giving money to Mr. WinDVD, but you're not using his program either, and he won't have to pay royalties to the DVD consortium for the program you didn't buy from him. Not to mention that 9 times out of 10, when you buy a DVD drive, you get a nice disc with WinDVD/PowerDVD/WhateverDVD included.

Now I ask you: why do you hate Linux? ;)

[Doom9]

Let me make it easy for you: just keep your lists away from this board and we won't have any trouble. Otherwise.. you know the rulebook. Case closed.