settings for BD9 (Blu-ray compliant HD stream on DVD9)

[Dark Shikari]

I think you might try working with the psy-rd settings;

Warning: I have no exact understanding, if any understandig at all about AQ /psy-rd and such. What I write here is only the way I tink it works now (correct me if i'm wrong, so I can understand better).

AQ moves bits from frames with less need to frames with more need (more movement for instance). So bits can be taken from frames where a blue sky is prominent, and moved to somewhere else ... leaving the sky with not enough bits to avoid banding. Lowering AQ makes this effect less, and moves less bits (and thus loweres the chance for banding).The exact opposite. AQ will add bits to the sky because AQ moves bits from high detail areas and edges to less detailed areas.
But as I understand it, psy-RD works more-or-less the other way around than AQ does. It tries to leave more bits in areas like the sky mentioned above, so as to give the impression of more details in the frame.

I've lowered psy-rd to 0.8 because I allready have lowered AQ, trying to balance out the two. After looking at a few of my encodes, I think i'll put it back to 0.9 cause I see slight banding also.No, psy-RD doesn't explicitly go in any particular direction, though it does tends to add more bits to flat blocks just as AQ does.

[G_M_C]

The exact opposite. AQ will add bits to the sky because AQ moves bits from high detail areas and edges to less detailed areas.

No, psy-RD doesn't explicitly go in any particular direction, though it does tends to add more bits to flat blocks just as AQ does.

Ahhh, i see; Thanx for the correction.

For avoiding banding setting / leaving AQ to it's default of 1.0 would be a good place to start adjusting my settings. I'll leave the psy-rd to the settings i use now, and expiriment. I can allways adjust them.

But getting a "standard" will not work anyway, cause in my expireance all sources are different, and so will all encodes and their settings. But I do want to get to a good average setting, like a "good place to start of from" and ajusting from there :).

[bond]

1) is it already for sure known which resolutions (including anamorphic resize settings) and corresponding framerates are supported for bluray on dvd?

eg is it possible to reencode a dvd on bluray without changing resolution, anamoprhic resize settings and framerate?

2) are dvd5s supported as official bluray disc?

[G_M_C]

1) is it already for sure known which resolutions (including anamorphic resize settings) and corresponding framerates are supported for bluray on dvd?

eg is it possible to reencode a dvd on bluray without changing resolution, anamoprhic resize settings and framerate?

2) are dvd5s supported as official bluray disc?

For reso an framerate see here (under techical specs); http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
So it seems you cant reencode DVD's the way you describe.

DVD5's work on my player.

[bond]

For reso an framerate see here (under techical specs); http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
So it seems you cant reencode DVD's the way you describe.720x576 50-i 4:3/16:9

does this mean progressive dvds need to be reencoded as interlaced? how crappy is this

[G_M_C]

720x576 50-i 4:3/16:9

does this mean progressive dvds need to be reencoded as interlaced? how crappy is this

Not really, at least if you dont plan to stick with SD video like me. But if you want to do SD DVD -> SD-BD9 conversion, yes then it's crappy. But the BD(9) format is developed for High Def, so that;s probably the reason for crappy SD quality.

[Dark Shikari]

720x576 50-i 4:3/16:9

does this mean progressive dvds need to be reencoded as interlaced? how crappy is thisThe Blu-ray spec allows 50fps progressive content AFAIK, including a "625/50" video format that can code 576-height PAL video.

[moviefan]

So do I need to duplicate frames for PAL SD content to be authored for Blu-ray format? 720x576@50p = framerate doubling, if the source is 720x576@25p?

[Atak_Snajpera]

so do i need to duplicate frames for pal sd content to be authored for blu-ray format? 720x576@50p = framerate doubling, if the source is 720x576@25p?
no...

[moviefan]

720x576@25p is ok?

[Atak_Snajpera]

Why do you ask once again??????

[ajp_anton]

So both 720x576@25p and 50p are OK =)
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1116120#post1116120 says only 50i...

[moviefan]

As I mentioned in post #47, I experience ugly banding with my rather clean source. I tried higher --aq-strength values up to 3.0 (which is pretty dumb, but I wanted to at least try it) which didn't help much... Very high strengh values still resulted in banding, but detailed areas looked pretty bad too. I also tried varying the psy-rdo values, but that didn't help either. My source has a slight gradient in the area where banding appears. I have improved the gradient using gradfun2db(), I also added grain, but even the grain did not prevent the encoder from creating banding. Any ideas?

[Dark Shikari]

As I mentioned in post #47, I experience ugly banding with my rather clean source. I tried higher --aq-strength values up to 3.0 (which is pretty dumb, but I wanted to at least try it) which didn't help much... Very high strengh values still resulted in banding, but detailed areas looked pretty bad too. I also tried varying the psy-rdo values, but that didn't help either. My source has a slight gradient in the area where banding appears. I have improved the gradient using gradfun2db(), I also added grain, but even the grain did not prevent the encoder from creating banding. Any ideas?Lower deadzones or psy trellis can further bias against banding. No-dct-decimate can help as well.

[moviefan]

Oh, sorry, I forgot to mention that I also set the deadzones to 4, which is very low according to my knowledge and it did not help. What does no-dct-decimate do exactly?

[Dark Shikari]

What does no-dct-decimate do exactly?It turns off decimation in P-frames. Decimation removes lone coefficients in cases where bit-wise they are overly expensive, but this may not be entirely ideal in the case where you want tons of wasted coefficients thrown around everywhere for the purpose of just making sure there's no banding.

Also, psy-trellis, try it.

[moviefan]

I have tried encoding with psy-trellis from 0.0 to 1.5, no visible effect... There is still obvious banding which is very annoying. I am going uploading a sample clip of 89 frames (1 scene) from my filtered source encoded with Lagarith YV12 (size ~66 MB). The banding appears on the top left part of the picture. If you encode it with x264, you will see the banding very clearly. Maybe you could have a look at it and help me getting rid of this disturbing effect.

Sample clip:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d1c0c5e35af3151c91b20cc0d07ba4d2d3907badf0416b8a

G_M_C: The source also shows banding in that area, but it is slightly covered by grain and not so obvious due to the very high bitrate.

Dark Shikari: I also added grain, even a lot of grain and it did not help. Even at average bitrates of 12000 kbps, the banding was clearly visible.

[G_M_C]

I have tried encoding with psy-trellis from 0.0 to 1.5, no visible effect... There is still obvious banding which is very annoying. I am going uploading a sample clip of 89 frames (1 scene) from my filtered source encoded with Lagarith YV12 (size ~66 MB). The banding appears on the top left part of the picture. If you encode it with x264, you will see the banding very clearly. Maybe you could have a look at it and help me getting rid of this disturbing effect.

<link to sample coming soon>

Yes, an example would be great. Banding is often already present in the source .... also banding is sometimes caused by the Avisynth filtering used. Might be useful to see your script too.

[Dark Shikari]

You might find that a bit of AddGrain() can resolve banding rather well... ;)

[Sharc]

Hmmm...., perhaps some kind of "adaptive AddGrain()" should be added to x264, similar to AQ. I observed this banding as well, e.g. the flat blue sky at the beginning of "The Bucket List" -- despite AQ, psy-rd and psy-trellis and relative high avarage bitrate of around 4000 kbps IIRC.
Actually Xvid and DivX looked more pleasant in that scene, at a comparable bitrate. Apart from this banding all Gold Medals go to x264.

[Dark Shikari]

Hmmm...., perhaps some kind of "adaptive AddGrain()" should be added to x264, similar to AQ. I observed this banding as well, e.g. the flat blue sky at the beginning of "The Bucket List" -- despite AQ, psy-rd and psy-trellis and relative high avarage bitrate of around 4000 kbps IIRC.
Actually Xvid and DivX looked more pleasant in that scene, at a comparable bitrate. Apart from this banding all Gold Medals go to x264.Oh, I forgot the last method. Turn off or reduce deblocking (reduce probably better). That's why Xvid and DivX don't band as much. :)

In some cases it is impossible at the current quantizer to retain a certain level of extremely fine detail due to deblocking. The solution x264 uses is in the form of AQ--if it can get the quantizer below 16 - deblockbeta*2 (I think), deblocking won't activate at all.

[moviefan]

I have uploaded the sample clip. Link is in here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1228967#post1228967

[Sharc]

Oh, I forgot the last method. Turn off or reduce deblocking (reduce probably better). That's why Xvid and DivX don't band as much. :)
Good to know. My settings for deblocking were (-1,-1). Maybe I should have reduced it even more.

[Sagittaire]

I have uploaded the sample clip. Link is in here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1228967#post1228967

Here quick encoding with Dithering.
http://jfl1974.free.fr/Sample/Dithering.mp4

With other filter for reduce noise in dark area it's possible to obtain very better quality but it's just a quick encoding.

The good way for reduce banding is dithering at pre-process. Don't forget to use the good space color at playback if you use PC (TVscale to PCscale with coreAVC for exemple).

[moviefan]

How did you exactly achieve your result??? It looks amazing! I would love to reproduce it! Or is it just extreme bitrate? I aim at encoding with an average bitrate of 5900 kbps.

[Atak_Snajpera]

My command line
--crf 22 --sar 1:1 --level 4.0 --vbv-bufsize 25000 --vbv-maxrate 25000 --filter 0,0 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-adapt 1 --weightb --direct auto --subme 7 --trellis 1 --partitions all --8x8dct --me umh --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "F:\temp\RipBot264temp\video.264"

result without adding grain because source already has grain :)
http://www.mediafire.com/?m2nbjzm5w3v

[moviefan]

Why is Atak_Snajpera's sample from post #76 brighter than Sagittaire's from post #75? Which one is in the correct colour space and if it is Sagittaire's, how did you achieve it? My encodes, in terms of brightness, looked like Atak_Snajpera's.

[Atak_Snajpera]

It looks like Sagittaire applied TV -> PC conversion in script (16 - 235) -> (0 - 255 FULL RGB)
You can achieve the same result in RipBot264

[moviefan]

But the question is, whether the conversion is necessary or not, since it is not DVD material...

[Atak_Snajpera]

I wonder why you encoded to Lagarithm??? When I import .m2ts or .evo directly I always get full RGB.

[moviefan]

Because the sample I uploaded is preprocessed with heavy avisynth filters which reduce encoding speed with x264 to something like 0.1 fps or so. Doing two-pass, it would take far too long to encode...

[Sagittaire]

Because the sample I uploaded is preprocessed with heavy avisynth filters which reduce encoding speed with x264 to something like 0.1 fps or so. Doing two-pass, it would take far too long to encode...

your pre-process is not really good. You use RGB for logarith encoding?

[moviefan]

Why is it not good? Please explain in more detail, how you see that and what I have to improve. I use YV12 output for lagarith + VirtualDub (current version).

Also another problem: When there is a slow fade-in from black to the actual video, x264 messes this part totally up! The quantizer chosen is far to low and the picture is very blocky and blurry. Is there a general setting I have not thought of that takes care of fade-ins? The only way that comes to my mind is to define a zone for these frames and raise the quantizer by hand...

[rack04]

I just finished tested a AVCHD/BD on DVD-9 using the following x264 command line:

"%x264_PATH%" --pass 2 --bitrate %DESIRED_BITRATE% --stats "%WORKING_DIRECTORY%\%OUTPUT_FILENAME%.stats" --level 4.1 --keyint 24
--min-keyint 1 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-adapt 2 --b-pyramid --weightb --direct auto --deblock -1:-1 --subme 7 --trellis 2
--partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 24000 --qcomp 0.5 --me umh --merange 24 --threads auto
--thread-input --sar 1:1 --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "%WORKING_DIRECTORY%\%OUTPUT_FILENAME%-output.h264"
"%INPUT_VIDEO%" --mvrange 511 --aud --nal-hrd

It looks and plays fantastic on my Panasonic BD35.

[G_M_C]

I just finished tested a AVCHD/BD on DVD-9 using the following x264 command line:

"%x264_PATH%" --pass 2 --bitrate %DESIRED_BITRATE% --stats "%WORKING_DIRECTORY%\%OUTPUT_FILENAME%.stats" --level 4.1 --keyint 24
--min-keyint 1 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-adapt 2 --b-pyramid --weightb --direct auto --deblock -1:-1 --subme 7 --trellis 2
--partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 24000 --qcomp 0.5 --me umh --merange 24 --threads auto
--thread-input --sar 1:1 --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "%WORKING_DIRECTORY%\%OUTPUT_FILENAME%-output.h264"
"%INPUT_VIDEO%" --mvrange 511 --aud --nal-hrd

It looks and plays fantastic on my Panasonic BD35.

--partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8

Since a couple of revisions of x264 ago, you can safely use --partitions all, I've been using it without problems and i perceive a very slight quality improvement (but it can also be subjective).

[MadMonkey57]

I've encoded plenty of backups to red laser DVD to play on my Pana BD35 but none of them are played @24p. Could this have anything to do with x264 settings ? (i use Sharktooth's Blu Ray profile with --vbv-maxrate 15000 --vbv-bufsize 15000 if it matters)

Thank you guys.

[lexor]

I've encoded plenty of backups to red laser DVD to play on my Pana BD35 but none of them are played @24p. Could this have anything to do with x264 settings ? (i use Sharktooth's Blu Ray profile with --vbv-maxrate 15000 --vbv-bufsize 15000 if it matters)

Thank you guys.

What fps are they played at? Hard to make suggestions if we don't know what's happening to the frame rate. A DVD should be at 23.976 btw, in case you were expecting a constant 24.

[MadMonkey57]

What fps are they played at? Hard to make suggestions if we don't know what's happening to the frame rate. A DVD should be at 23.976 btw, in case you were expecting a constant 24.

All right, my fault, wasn't clear enough...

My SAP and LCD both have this nice "24p" feature (Sony calls it "24p True Cinema"), that is the video plays at exactly 24 frames per second, LCD refreshes 24 (48 maybe 72) times per second and the SAP throws exactly 24 frames untouched.

When the disc is inserted, the SAP and LCD "agree", and the LCD switches to 1080/24p.

This feature works fine with the original BD and not at all with the backup. I was wondering if it could come from the settings used in x264.

[rack04]

How does --vbv-bufsize and --vbv-maxrate effect the quality? I'm using --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 24000 for my AVCHD/BD encodes and I'm experiencing lag and general unresponsive behavior when fast forwarding and rewinding on my BD35. Could the --vbv-bufsize and --vbv-maxrate have any effect on the functions?

[laserfan]

How does --vbv-bufsize and --vbv-maxrate effect the quality? I'm using --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 24000 for my AVCHD/BD encodes and I'm experiencing lag and general unresponsive behavior when fast forwarding and rewinding on my BD35. Could the --vbv-bufsize and --vbv-maxrate have any effect on the functions?I don't think those are a factor in FF/RW. Your keyint of 24 oughta assure plenty of I-frames to seek to/with. Are you muxing w/tsMuxeR? Using fixclpi after?

[rack04]

I don't think those are a factor in FF/RW. Your keyint of 24 oughta assure plenty of I-frames to seek to/with. Are you muxing w/tsMuxeR? Using fixclpi after?

Yes, I'm using tsMuxeR to do the authoring. Although, I'm not applying fixclpi on the tsMuxeR output because of the known issues with the fix and BD35. Using fixclpi causes the disc to be unplayable.

[laserfan]

Yes, I'm using tsMuxeR to do the authoring. Although, I'm not applying fixclpi on the tsMuxeR output because of the known issues with the fix and BD35. Using fixclpi causes the disc to be unplayable.Ah yes, I remember that now! I'm guessing then that you're caught between a rock (broken clpi file that fixclpi fixes for some-but-not-all players) and a hard place (the BD35 is one of those can't-play players). If the clpi file is indeed to blame, maybe jdobbs will find more problems with it in the course of his BD RB development, or the tsMuxeR guys will find/fix all probs w/their muxer. But I think the clpi might be your problem--what other freeware apps can mux to BDMV anyway I wonder?

[Esurnir]

--partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8

Since a couple of revisions of x264 ago, you can safely use --partitions all, I've been using it without problems and i perceive a very slight quality improvement (but it can also be subjective).

What was the problem ? I recently noticed that p4x4 is disabled and Level 3+ in megui.

[G_M_C]

What was the problem ? I recently noticed that p4x4 is disabled and Level 3+ in megui.

DS knows it better, the thing i remembered was that it had soething to do with lower quality. But X264 was improved, and P4x4 can only improve quality now, but its effect smal and generally only noticable with higher bitrates.

[ericf]

I have a Panasonic BD-50 and I've had some playability problems. The discs (AVCHD DVD) I've tried to play recently can't fast forward or move to the next chapter or the player stops and, after a while, starts from the beginning.

These are anime discs of Freedom and GITS 2.0. Others I tried didn't play at all. The reference frames (3) and AVC profile (4.1) are correct so I don't know why I can't get them to fast forward or move between chapters. Tried remuxing with different chapter structure but that didn't work. Removien the 00 chapter makes the disc unplayable. Any ideas?
Thanks.

ericf

[alc0re]

Looks like I found the right thread here for my question.

I've posted my question on a few different threads and haven't had any good answers yet, but I think this is the right thread.

I've been learning to transcode blurays to BD9. I've been manually doing what RipBot264 does automatically. My process involves using eac3to to strip the elementary streams, transcoding the video to lower bitrate and changing the resolution to 1280x720p using MeGUI and Ryu77's AVCHD profile, OCR'ing the .sup subtitles using suprip, and muxing with tsMuxer.

Here's the issue I have : My video stutters when playing on my panasonic bd35. Plays perfectly on on pc, but not on my tv through my bd35 sap. Its not a FPS issue during encoding (encoding avs script using 23.976 FPS.) Its also not my tv since the original bluray (or hd-dvd) plays perfectly on my tv. For kicks this morning before I left for work I transcoded the Matrix 3 using RipBot264 instead of MeGUI. I used RipBot's bluray profile, and targeted the size to fit on a single layer dvd instead of my normal dual layer dvd target size. I'm watching that AVCHD BD5 on my sap and there's no stuttering. Why is it stuttering when I do the process manually and not when using RipBot264? What could be causing the stuttering? My only guesses are 1) the x264 encoding/profile settings 2) the level (RipBot's bluray profile is high@L4.0 and the one I'm using with MeGUI is high@L4.1) 3) The muxing process with tsMuxer 4) The bitrate. To fit it on a single layer dvd the bitrate is like 3800 which is pretty far below my normal transcoding bitrate or 5) the medium. I burned RipBot's output to a single layer verbatim disc and my normal ones are burnt to a dual layer memorex dvd (before I researched and found that verbatim make better blank dvds.)

Please excuse my nubbiness...this thread seems to be mostly inhabited by much more experienced transcoders than I.

PS...what MeGUI profile is best in terms of both compability with my panasonic bd35 sap and quality?

EDIT/UDPATE : I figured out the problem. The panasonic BD35 does not like avchd BD5/9 video encoded @ Level 4.1. I re-muxed one of my problem movies with tsMuxer option to change the level to 4.0 and now it plays flawlessly.

Two additional questions : 1) Does anyone know of a way to change the dialog normalization level of an ac3 file? Pre eac3to v2.85, it would set the dialog normalization level to -0db, but my receiver doesn't like that value. It turns down the volume a lot. I'm trying to figure out a way to change the level back to what it was originally on these problem ac3 files or change it to -31. (Without re-encoding the ac3.)
2) The following is my x264 encoding profile...is there anything I could change to increase the quality while still being compatible with the BD35 sap (and not doubling my encoding time)? Or is there anything wrong with this profile?

"program --pass 2 --bitrate 7120 --stats ".stats" --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --ref 4 --mixed-refs --no-fast-pskip --bframes 3 --b-adapt 2 --b-pyramid --weightb --direct auto --subme 7 --trellis 2 --partitions all --8x8dct --qpmin 8 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 25000 --vbv-maxrate 25000 --qcomp 0.5 --me umh --threads auto --thread-input --aud --progress --no-dct-decimate --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "output" "input" --mvrange 511 --aud --nal-hrd --sar 1:1"

[nm]

2) The following is my x264 encoding profile...is there anything I could change to increase the quality while still being compatible with the BD35 sap (and not doubling my encoding time)? Or is there anything wrong with this profile?

"program --pass 2 --bitrate 7120 --stats ".stats" --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --ref 4 --mixed-refs --no-fast-pskip --bframes 3 --b-adapt 2 --b-pyramid --weightb --direct auto --subme 7 --trellis 2 --partitions all --8x8dct --qpmin 8 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 25000 --vbv-maxrate 25000 --qcomp 0.5 --me umh --threads auto --thread-input --aud --progress --no-dct-decimate --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "output" "input" --mvrange 511 --aud --nal-hrd --sar 1:1"
I'd remove --no-fast-pskip and use --subme 9 instead of 7. Psy-trellis (--psy-rd 1.0:1.0) is also useful with many movies (other than clean anime).

[G_M_C]

What was the problem ? I recently noticed that p4x4 is disabled and Level 3+ in megui.

I suddenly rememberd asking this before, and Dark Shikari explained. See here: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1214050&postcount=520

Strange thing is that based ont Dark Shikari's anwers, the Megui developers agreed adding the P4x4 to the profiles again. Based on your post it seems they haven't (yet) or have forgotten. Might be worthwhile to bring it to their attention again :)

EDIT:

[...]Psy-trellis (--psy-rd 1.0:1.0) is also useful with many movies (other than clean anime).

Psy-RD is useful, true, but i'd advise lowering the setting to 1.0:0.5 or so. The setting you give sharpens the image relatively much, riscing artifacts (and based on personal preference, sharpening isn't really desirable). See also: http://ffmpeg.x264.googlepages.com/mapping for options explained.

[Esurnir]

I suddenly rememberd asking this before, and Dark Shikari explained. See here: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1214050&postcount=520

Strange thing is that based ont Dark Shikari's anwers, the Megui developers agreed adding the P4x4 to the profiles agian. Bases on your post it seems they haven't (yet) or have forgotten. Might be worthwhile to bring it to their attention again :)

EDIT:



Psy-RD is useful, true, but i'd advise lowering the setting to 1.0:0.5 or so. The setting you give sharpens the image reatively much, riscing artifacts (and based on personal preference, sharpening isn't really desirable). See also: http://ffmpeg.x264.googlepages.com/mapping for options explained.

Well it is there but on "unrestricted" profiles or with level set to strictly inferior to three.

(ie where they are the least useful O_o; )

[alc0re]

a few questions :

1) why remove --no-fast-pskip? From what I'm reading using that option increases quality.

2) what exactly does no dct decimation do? enabling no dct decimation (turning off dct decimation) will increase or decrease quality? I dont care about encoding time unless its going to like triple my encoding speed.

3) this sounds like a stupid question and I'm pretty positive I know the answer but I need to ask it anyways just for confirmation : changing the level in and of itself makes no difference in quality right? (all other settings remaining the same) The reason I ask is because I have to leave it at unrestricted/autoguess in megui in order to enable --partitions all.

4) does anyone know of a way to change the dialog normalization level on an ac3 audio file without re-encoding? (not talking about using eac3to to remove the dialog normalization...I'm trying to reverse that process cause its causing issues with my receiver.)

5) what's the max number of b frames and reference frames I should be using for a BD9 on a panasonic bd35 bluray player?