TSPE 0.700 Public Beta out now! [Archive] - Page 3

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t12345

11th February 2009, 09:04

Ventolin
thanks for your feedback and suggestions.
I have found possibility to change the codec in TSPE configuration. :) I have used multimedia without understanding so far. I have installed a packet of codecs and all have been worked good and quick ... maybe because SD mpg2 and avi need much smaller power than my computer has. Now, HDTV needs rapidly much more power.
TSPE has used fddshow as standard codec. I have changed it to cyberlink's one , and playing video in TSPE needs only 12% of CPU power. The same in PowerDVD needs 45%. Maybe you are able to use it better then authors of this codec. Congratulation for good job.

I have used videoredo so far for my SDTV captures in ts files. I have used it because of its extra key management and very quick working. I can press a key for frame/second/10 seconds/minute scrolling and the video is scrolled smooth , continuous like normal playing but in bigger speed. It makes checking what is stored very easy (and FAST!!!). It is working enough good that the very bad working of videoredo with corrupted (not descrambled) source is not enough to use something else. But videoredo is only for mpg2.
I hope, TPSE will be in future in the same ergonomic level for hdtv like now videoredo is for SDTV. Today with accelereated codec TSPE is not able to play the source smooth when I pressing scrolling by frame/iframe/second/10 seconds (or is it possible but I do not have good configuration on my PC ?). It can be result of not enough good TSPE, used codec or slow PC. I hope it will be improved in future , only improved PC can done by me , but it will not help I afraid.

How am I using the videoredo now?
1. normal playing in normal speed
2. scrolling by frame using arrows (the same in TSPE)
3. scrolling by 1 second using ctrl + arrow (page up/down)
4. scrolling by 10 seconds using shift + arrow (ctrl + page up/down)
5. scrolling by 1 minute using shift+ctrl+arrow (pressing mouse on scroll bar)
The scrolling by 1 minute is enough smooth/quick and scrolling with bigger speed is not needed.

I understand, own settings of keys in TSPE will make TSPE will be unique. But maybe better will be using more ergonomic key management.
The scrolling of material is doing in horizontal direction : previous in the left and next in the right. The using of page up and page down in vertical direction is not natural.
Maybe as long as smooth scrolling in TSPE will not be possible it does not have big importance but why not project it good at once?
Why this what I am using current is fine ? I am using both hands or only one !!! One finger on arrow second on ctrl , shift or on shift and ctrl in the same time. If I want to slower the scrolling I am only releasing one finger or changing pressing the key and I do not have to look on it because the key is next to used current and no possibility to press wrong key.
Do you think, will you be able to change key mapping to suggested by me?

Scrolling over iframes . I thing it is not helpful during checking material for finding something interesting. It is helpful when I will find what I want to edit. When it will occure, I will pay attention for correct selecting part for edit and only in this moment I will need scrolling by iframe. I am trying to get to like you to use arrow and control for 1 second scrolling , not for iframe. The combination for alt+arrow can be good for iframe or other.

The pressing on graphic scroll bar is moving current position + or - 1 minute. My suggestion is to add button for scroll 1 minute. If user will click on scroll bar the current position should be changed to apropriate position on scroll bar. Of course if the calculation of position will be not problem. I hope will not be, because dragging scroll pointer is fast.

I do not want to suggest, the current set of key management is wrong. No. It is good but only for use your application for short time. If someone will want open 20 hours recording for checking what is inside to edit, the absence of ergonomic key management will be a nightmare. I hope you will understand my intention, I do not want to criticize you but only help making your application better.

Ventolin

15th February 2009, 05:56

Hi t12345,

...Now, HDTV needs rapidly much more power.
TSPE has used fddshow as standard codec. I have changed it to cyberlink's one , and playing video in TSPE needs only 12% of CPU power. The same in PowerDVD needs 45%. Maybe you are able to use it better then authors of this codec. Congratulation for good job.
Thanks for the kind words regarding performance here, it's interesting that TSPE is faster than PowerDVD using Cyberlink's own Video Decoder, but then the splitter in use may be different, so the lower CPU load may be due to the splitter. You are right, HD needs alot more power, even with a Quad Core and 4GB ram it's not enough for fast scrubbing!
I have used videoredo so far for my SDTV captures in ts files. I have used it because of its extra key management and very quick working. I can press a key for frame/second/10 seconds/minute scrolling and the video is scrolled smooth , continuous like normal playing but in bigger speed. It makes checking what is stored very easy (and FAST!!!). It is working enough good that the very bad working of videoredo with corrupted (not descrambled) source is not enough to use something else. But videoredo is only for mpg2.
I hope, TPSE will be in future in the same ergonomic level for hdtv like now videoredo is for SDTV. Today with accelereated codec TSPE is not able to play the source smooth when I pressing scrolling by frame/iframe/second/10 seconds (or is it possible but I do not have good configuration on my PC ?). It can be result of not enough good TSPE, used codec or slow PC. I hope it will be improved in future , only improved PC can done by me , but it will not help I afraid.
Most of the CPU time is taken up by the direct show filters. If you want to see the raw speed of TSPE alone, turn off the video preview and scrub the video with the scroll bar. You will see the data in the decode windows appear instantly in most cases. TSPE has not even been optimised for this yet!

How am I using the videoredo now?
1. normal playing in normal speed
2. scrolling by frame using arrows (the same in TSPE)
3. scrolling by 1 second using ctrl + arrow (page up/down)
4. scrolling by 10 seconds using shift + arrow (ctrl + page up/down)
5. scrolling by 1 minute using shift+ctrl+arrow (pressing mouse on scroll bar)
The scrolling by 1 minute is enough smooth/quick and scrolling with bigger speed is not needed.

...

I do not want to suggest, the current set of key management is wrong. No. It is good but only for use your application for short time. If someone will want open 20 hours recording for checking what is inside to edit, the absence of ergonomic key management will be a nightmare. I hope you will understand my intention, I do not want to criticize you but only help making your application better.
Thank you for your feed back regarding ergonomic keyboard controls. They made me think about it enough for me to work on the keyboard controls ahead of schedule!

I have implemented two ways of 60 second jumps with keyboard combinations, and have improved the default key settings also. I am unable to make the key settings the same as VideoRedo, but I do hope you will find the keyboard settings alot more to your liking.

Although you are obviously used to using the cursor keys for navigation, I would suggest trying the main keyboard shortcuts instead (with improvements in the next version). These are:

J, K, L, I, O, M.

Have a look at where these keys are on the keyboard. You'll find them right under your fingertips if you are used to touch typing (on a UK/US keyboard). Not only can you navigate fully (with Shift and Ctrl modifiers), but you can set and test start and end points and set markers all with one hand!
Furthermore, if you are used to using other professional editors, you'll already be familiar with the keyboard combinations. Try them out and see how you get on.

In a future version, the keyboard shortcuts will be user definable, but for now, the updated keyboard shortcuts will be included the next released version, which I really hope will be out very very soon!

Best Regards,

Vent

jeffnoone

16th February 2009, 01:28

Ventolin

16th February 2009, 05:33

Was going to buy a license for this, but eventually on purchase page, I got to the need to insert Activation Key Strings 1&2

Can I get some more detail on conditions of use for a licence?

I use a couple of computers to video-edit at home, but never two computers at one time. These are also the computers I upgrade, i.e. if I build new computer, the new one is used for video-editing, the older one goes to one of the kids

So, some questions

Can this be licensed on several computers at the same time (same owner, no simultaneous usage)?

Can I transfer license to another computer WITHOUT input from the author?

On same lines, if auther goes out of business, can I move licence?

Can someone let me know before purchase

Thanks
Jeff
Hi,

Thanks for your interest!

The licence applies to 1 PC only and is hardware locked, similar to Windows OEM OS licences.

As TSPE is hardware locked, you can not move licence yourself from one PC to another and if you change your hardware significantly you will have to get a replacement licence.

At the moment, we are issuing Free replacement licences if you upgrade or change your PC. Just send the new activation details with an explanation and a new licence will be sent to you (as long as the requests are reasonable ie, not requesting a new one every week!)

If you want to use 2 PCs simultaneously, you will need 2 licences.

Major version upgrades will be chargable, if you buy now however, your licence will last until Version 2.0 is available. For the price I think that's a very good deal!

It'll be "Acts of God" that will take the authors "out of business" and even then I'm sure TSPE will still live on!

I hope that answers your questions, if you do have any further queries, please feel free to give me a PM.

Regards,

Vent

jeffnoone

16th February 2009, 06:28

Seems fair - just purchased
Keep up the good work
Jeff

rebkell

6th March 2009, 17:22

Ventolin

6th March 2009, 18:23

Hi rebkell,

I have sent you a PM regarding your issue.

Cheers,

Vent

Edit: Now Sorted :)

guppyman

15th March 2009, 21:11

I'm having problems, I've edited dozens of files with TSPE with no problems, but now all of a sudden it won't let me create an edited file, even ones it has done previously. I can open the file and create all the edit points, but when I click on edit or create a test edit, I get a message like this:

Testing Edit Point
Copying Data...
Creating Test Edit
New PAT Generated.
New PMT Generated.

Error:
Index was outside the bounds of the array.
PID: 0, iPii: 0, ProgIndex: 0
Launching Internal Viewer

Error: Auto Creating Filter Graph
Error HRESULT E_FAIL has been returned from a call to a COM component.
Error Loading Video, Disabling.

I used H264ts_cutter to edit the file and it worked flawlessly, I had a previously edited file, and loaded up the edl file and got the same errors. I can play all these files, I can edit them in TSPE, but when it comes time to create edit points, I get the above error, every time: Help.
The same thing is happening to me - TSPE has been working great and now it won't. Here's the latest error message:
Error:
Index was outside the bounds of the array.
PID: 0, iPii: 0, ProgIndex: 0
Warning: No identified video PID found in this section.
Total time taken 0.11 seconds, write speed 0.0 MB/s

Edit complete: successfully written file with 376 bytes.

Error: Auto Creating Filter Graph
Exception from HRESULT: 0x80040265
Error Loading Video, Disabling.
Internal Viewer Closed.

Jackda

15th March 2009, 21:38

And the same here, too.

Same error, same message, different language ;) .

TSPE has been working great here, too. Did many, many files with the trial,
and a couple ones since I purchased it.

Ventolin

16th March 2009, 00:52

Hi folks,

Yeah, there is an issue with the licence system which shows up in Vista which gives this error.

If you have a full licence and get the error, just send in your activation details again and I'll regenerate a new licence for you.

This shouldn't affect temp licences, if you do get this error with a temp licence, which hasn't expired, then let me know and I'll issue an extension for you.

Apologies for the inconvenience caused, hopefully this issue is fixed in the next release!

Next release has "Table Editor" which lets you re-order, auto-sort and auto-select streams in the PID tree, handles streams with broken or missing PAT/PMTs (including Topfield, and other PVRs) and a good few other minor additions.

Haven't released that yet though as there is a bug in the output that needs to be ironed out, which is proving to be hard to fix.

Regards,

Vent

Lovok

16th March 2009, 01:04

I'm testing TSPE 0.740 on Vista x64, 25 days of trial left, but suddenly 'Error: Index was outside the bounds of the array.' instead of Editing :(

Renzz

16th March 2009, 10:36

Same failure here on the trial licence on Vista 32.

satnews

16th March 2009, 14:11

Hi folks,

This shouldn't affect temp licences...

same on my side too, but 1 day left of 45 only

windows xp/x64 sp2

thank

Ventolin

16th March 2009, 14:31

Hi folks,

Thanks for all the reports and sorry for the inconvenience.

Just to let you know I'm working on it, will give an update soon.

Does anyone with a full licence have trouble?

Regards,

Vent

Jackda

16th March 2009, 18:01

Ventolin

16th March 2009, 19:32

Yes, as posted above, I do.
I have sent an email with my activation details
to your activation email-adress this morning.
Should I have used the support one?

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to complain about anything,
I'm totally aware of TSPE being beta and that things like this can happen.

I just don't want "the problem" to be a wrong way of contacting you.

Hi Jackda,

I did get your activation details, but am trying hard to fix this major bug. There is no "wrong" way of contacting me, just don't turn up at my house!

I'm hoping that the new version of TSPE I'm working on will resolve the issues, for both full and temp users. Hopefully will have this ready in the next 24 hours or less.

Regards,

Vent

Jackda

16th March 2009, 20:39

Wow, I didn't expect the new version to be (at least hopefully) ready so soon.

Keep up the great work.

Ventolin

17th March 2009, 06:16

Hi folks,

New version 0.755 now up at website!

http://www.bitstreamtools.com/download

Hopefully this will fix the issues you have had with edits.

If you have a full licence you might have to regenerate your activation details and email them in again.

New 30 day temp licence, everyone's temp licences get reset to 30 days!

Quite a few new features added to 0.755, the most notable is the Table Editor.

This auto-sorts and auto-selects video and audio PIDs, can create missing PAT / PMT files for Topfield PVRs and others, supports ITVHD, AC3 stream now prefered instead of the mp2 audio description stream for BBCHD, fixes alot of broken tables from capture software outputs, you can drag/drop PIDs in the tree to re-order them and a whole host of other features too.

One issue is still remaining however, audio resync offset is not working, this will be fixed in the next update.

Please let me know how you get on with this release. I haven't had time to test this a much as I would like as the licence issue has pushed this release forward.

Apologies again for the inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding!

Looking forward to your feedback,

Regards,

Vent

Jackda

17th March 2009, 07:46

Great news,
no error here with the new trial license,
no difference though with my old full-license.
Still get the same error.

I will generate the activation details again with the new version,
and send them over to you.

Because of the working trial you have 30 days to send me a new license ;)
I think it's great that you renewed the temp licenses by the way.

dhnj

17th March 2009, 09:51

My full license is working with 0.755 & Windows XP Pro SP3.
Just noticed that the output size of same file is little less than
in 0.740. Would like more documentation regarding new features in 0.755

dhnj

17th March 2009, 14:26

Ventolin

17th March 2009, 14:51

More testing of 0.755 has reveal the following:
I can author a AVCHD/BDMV DVD disc with Arcsoft Total Media Extreme without re-encoding with a Hauppauge HD PVR capture file edited with TSPE 0.740. If I edit the same file using EDL with TSPE 0.755 then Arcsoft Total Media Extreme will re-encode the input file doubling its file size.

Hi dhnj,

Try making a new EDL without using the one from 0.740. You can also try disabling the Tables when you make the edit.

It is very strange that TME is re-encoding though but the only real difference is the table processing in 0.755 vs 0.740.

I will add some more documentation for sure on the Table Editor a bit later.

Let me know how you get on!

Regards,

Vent

dhnj

17th March 2009, 21:37

Hi dhnj,

Try making a new EDL without using the one from 0.740. You can also try disabling the Tables when you make the edit.

It is very strange that TME is re-encoding though but the only real difference is the table processing in 0.755 vs 0.740.

I will add some more documentation for sure on the Table Editor a bit later.

Let me know how you get on!

Regards,

Vent
Hi Vent

TME has always been very fussy with the edit points used in the input files. I have edit using the same edit points both in 0.740 & 0.755 & the results are as follows:
0.740 edited file size 128360 KB TME no re-encode.
0.755 edited file size 134475 KB TME will re-encode.

Regards

Borgqy

17th March 2009, 23:45

Hi ,
the new version looks very nice , especially the table editor is great.
I still get these errors on edits at the cutpoint:
PCR gap of 0,5 seconds in PID 0x0200 at offset 0x9F7CE224
However the audio seems to be in sync now as far as i could test it atm.
What are those Errors exactly , and what consequences could they bring if i keep the edits with the errors? (like problems with playback on devices and stuff)

Jackda

18th March 2009, 09:56

Just did some testing yesterday, and I had no problems at all.
The new version, in combination with a new license file is working flawlessly.

And the table editor solved an otherwise time consuming problem.

Great work, Vent.

joerg

18th March 2009, 21:30

I am seeing problems editing (cutting) M2TS files I captured with my iCord HD. If I try to cut such a file, I get the following error:

----------
Version: 0.755
Buffer Size: 1540096

Opening: D:\Cap\iCord\***.ts
Opening File...
Video Loaded.
Auto Finding PIDs

Warning: PID 0x0010 Not Found in Scan

Warning: PID 0x189C Not Found in Scan

Warning: PID 0x1900 Not Found in Scan
PID Attribute List:
PID: 0x1842: H.264 1280x720 (1280x720) @ 50.000 fps
PID: 0x184D: MPEG1 Audio Layer 2, 64Kbit/s @ 44100Hz
PID: 0x184E: MPEG1 Audio Layer 2, 64Kbit/s @ 44100Hz

Scanning For Format Changes
File size: 8164254336 Bytes
Video Resolution from Codec: 1280 x 720 @ 50.00 fps
Duration from Codec: 5688.64
Duration from Timestamps: 5688.70
Average System Bitrate: 11481363.88
Done.
Copying Data...
Processing Selected EDL Item: 1 of 1
New PAT Created.
New PMT Created.

Error:
Index was outside the bounds of the array.
PID: 0, iPii: 0, ProgIndex: 0
Error: Edit failed, only 384 bytes written.
----------
In the preview area the picture displays properly.

Also if I try to scan the input stream I get lots of messages like the following:
M2TS Arrival Time Stamp Gap of 536868367 found at offset 0x180
M2TS Arrival Time Stamp Gap of 268431534 found at offset 0x300
M2TS Arrival Time Stamp Gap of 536866989 found at offset 0x480

I know the stream is basically fine, since I could cut it successfully with TS Doctor.

If I try to remux the stream from m2ts to ts using TsRemux prior to editing, these problems do not occur. But obviously I would like to omit that additional step. btw: When the remuxed stream is loaded, TSPE sets the video mode to MPEG instead of h264 by default for some reason, and I have to change that manually. Also the Audio streams are now detected as MPEG2 while they are really MPEG1 Layer2.

Any hints what might be wrong would be much appreciated!

P.S.: Is it possible what kind of frame (I, P, B) one is currently at in the Video Window? I understand that for cut-in I should only cut at I-frames. Can I cut at P-frames, too, for cut-out or are there any reasons why I shouldn't do so?

Ventolin

20th March 2009, 18:44

Hi folks,

Sorry for the delay in replying I have been quite busy!

joerg - I can confirm that there is a bug in 0.755 with Temp licences and .m2ts files. Normal .ts files should be fine however, as should Full Licences. However, if you do have a full licence and find .m2ts editing not working, please let me know!

I did want to post with a fix by now, but haven't been able to yet; I will of course give an update as soon as it's ready.

In the meantime, please do continue to remux - TSPE's built in M2TS stripping function is also affected by the temp licence M2TS bug unfortunately.

As for the detection being incorrect, I dont know what TSMuxer produces but TSPE reads the stream type information from the PAT/PMT (tables). If they are incorrect or missing then TSPE tries to "guess" the streams type (more work needs to be done here obviously!). The table editor can indeed be used to correct this. If you can send a sample of the remux (turn off Fix Tables and Fix Timecodes before you press the edit button) I can see what the cause is and perhaps find a better solution. If you do send a sample, please post to somewhere like Mediafire / rapidshare / zshare, etc.

When you do a scan of M2TS files, you can get alot of M2TS header errors. This feature is still in development and definitely needs more work! In the meantime, there's a new option in 0.755 to turn off M2TS header checking under Menu Scan -> Disable M2TS Header checking.

Most of the time, the Frame Type is shown in the bottom right hand corner as you navigate, so you can see what type of frame you have in the video window. You can also use the Decode Window to see the frame type. There are few instances where this does not happen for instance when a MPEG2 stream does not have a GOP header. Support for this situation is very limited at the moment!

Borgqy - The PCR error you mention is a minor non-critical bug. It was picked up in 0.740 and is carried forward to 0.755 unfortunately. The bug is still being worked on as a high priority though and hopefully will be resolved soon. The bug should not affect the playback of the edit in any way. Hopefully the next version will be able to eliminate the bug and also possibly fix the error in previous edits.

dhnj - Very puzzled about TME being so picky with re-encoding. I will try to figure out what TME looks for when deciding when to re-encode or not, but it would be great if you can ask the authors of TME also if you haven't already. I hope you don't mind if I fix the "big" bugs first though! I will also work on the documentation as time permits.

Finally, thank you to all that have supported TSPE! It really means alot!

Regards,

Vent

joerg

20th March 2009, 20:55

joerg - I can confirm that there is a bug in 0.755 with Temp licences and .m2ts files. Normal .ts files should be fine however, as should Full Licences. However, if you do have a full licence and find .m2ts editing not working, please let me know!

Thank you for your kind reply. As I have just started evaluating tools to handle my iCord HD TV captures, I am in fact using the trial license. If your program would just cost 10 EUR or so I'd probably have bought it immediately, but with the price you are asking I definitely want to try this out thoroughly before deciding to buy it.

As for the detection being incorrect, I dont know what TSMuxer produces but TSPE reads the stream type information from the PAT/PMT (tables). If they are incorrect or missing then TSPE tries to "guess" the streams type (more work needs to be done here obviously!). The table editor can indeed be used to correct this. If you can send a sample of the remux (turn off Fix Tables and Fix Timecodes before you press the edit button) I can see what the cause is and perhaps find a better solution. If you do send a sample, please post to somewhere like Mediafire / rapidshare / zshare, etc.

I am using TsRemux, not TSMuxer. I'll send you a PM with a link to the sample. With the sample both the Audio and Video stream type are set to MPEG2.

When you do a scan of M2TS files, you can get alot of M2TS header errors. This feature is still in development and definitely needs more work! In the meantime, there's a new option in 0.755 to turn off M2TS header checking under Menu Scan -> Disable M2TS Header checking.

With header checking disabled the m2ts stream scans without errors.

Most of the time, the Frame Type is shown in the bottom right hand corner as you navigate, so you can see what type of frame you have in the video window. You can also use the Decode Window to see the frame type. There are few instances where this does not happen for instance when a MPEG2 stream does not have a GOP header. Support for this situation is very limited at the moment!

Oh, I overlooked that in the corner - thanks for the hint! It displays fine. :D
I would be happy if you could answer this question from my last posting: "I understand that for cut-in I should only cut at I-frames. Can I cut at P-frames, too, for cut-out or are there any reasons why I shouldn't do so?"

Ventolin

21st March 2009, 05:06

Hi Joerg,
Thank you for your kind reply. As I have just started evaluating tools to handle my iCord HD TV captures, I am in fact using the trial license. If your program would just cost 10 EUR or so I'd probably have bought it immediately, but with the price you are asking I definitely want to try this out thoroughly before deciding to buy it.
I hope that you'll find TSPE is worth the asking price! Of course it helps if there weren't bugs in the first place, but then it wouldn't be a beta and the price wouldn't be the same!

I am using TsRemux, not TSMuxer. I'll send you a PM with a link to the sample. With the sample both the Audio and Video stream type are set to MPEG2.
Thanks I had a look at the sample. If you look at the Decode of the PMT (Programme Map Table, PID 0x100 in your case) you can see that TsRemux has set the stream PIDs and stream types to BD specifications (almost). It has also set the audio streams to MPEG2 Audio instead of MPEG1. TSPE uses the PMT to identify the streams but as the PMT is incorrect TSPE's identification is affected. The good news is that you can change the stream type using TSPE's Table Editor.

1. Goto Edit -> Table Options -> Table Editor
2. Select the first MPEG2 Audio stream
3. Change the Stream Type to MPEG1 Audio in the dropdown list
4. Click Update
5. Select the 2nd MPEG2 Audio stream and repeat steps 3 and 4
6. Click Save
7. Make a full edit of the stream
8. Reload fixed edit back into TSPE.

You should now find MPEG1 Audio is in the tables and TSPE's mode is set accordingly.

With header checking disabled the m2ts stream scans without errors.
Great! (well not so great until m2ts header checking is improved!)

Oh, I overlooked that in the corner - thanks for the hint! It displays fine. :D
Yeah, it's tucked away in the corner, Office style, though it is easy to miss.

I would be happy if you could answer this question from my last posting: "I understand that for cut-in I should only cut at I-frames. Can I cut at P-frames, too, for cut-out or are there any reasons why I shouldn't do so?"
TSPE has "Clean Edit" intelligence which means that it will automatically attempt to find the best edit points given the set start & end points that you specify. Internally it finds the last P frame for an End point and the next I frame for the start point. Historically with GOP based editors, edit points are set at I frames for the cleanest results. Personally, I set the end points manually to the nearest P frame and the start point to the nearest I frame. Clean edits is still not perfected but is quite usable for most.

Hope that helps!

Regards,

Vent

dhnj

21st March 2009, 08:42

Hi folks,

dhnj - Very puzzled about TME being so picky with re-encoding. I will try to figure out what TME looks for when deciding when to re-encode or not, but it would be great if you can ask the authors of TME also if you haven't already. I hope you don't mind if I fix the "big" bugs first though! I will also work on the documentation as time permits.

Finally, thank you to all that have supported TSPE! It really means alot!

Regards,

Vent

Hi Vent

Thanks for your feedback.
Since I wrote to you last I have done many edits and all edits with 740 are Ok with TME, but not with the same edit with 755. I have uploaded a small edit(11.5 Mb) with 740 & 755
to rapidshare as follows:

1. Download Link: Click here to download file

http://rapidshare.com/files/211697415/HPOE1_740.edit.TS.html
MD5: 267150B041F5D2DFA48738AB1A139425

2. Download Link: Click here to download file

http://rapidshare.com/files/211697416/HPOE1_755.edit.TS.html
MD5: BB8EB9E52B5FA4B19D4D0B60479AB7B5

I think when you load a file into TME, it first looks at the begining of the input file to see if it is COMPLIANT or NON COMPLIANT according to their rules what is COMPLIANT or NON COMPLIANT.

I hope that the the 2 uploaded files will show you the difference.

Regards

dhnj

joerg

21st March 2009, 11:06

Hi Vent,

thank you for your detailed answers. I hope I'm not bugging you too much with my questions, but I've got more ;)

If you look at the Decode of the PMT (Programme Map Table, PID 0x100 in your case) you can see that TsRemux has set the stream PIDs and stream types to BD specifications (almost). It has also set the audio streams to MPEG2 Audio instead of MPEG1. TSPE uses the PMT to identify the streams but as the PMT is incorrect TSPE's identification is affected. The good news is that you can change the stream type using TSPE's Table Editor.

1. Goto Edit -> Table Options -> Table Editor
2. Select the first MPEG2 Audio stream
3. Change the Stream Type to MPEG1 Audio in the dropdown list
4. Click Update
5. Select the 2nd MPEG2 Audio stream and repeat steps 3 and 4
6. Click Save
7. Make a full edit of the stream
8. Reload fixed edit back into TSPE.

You should now find MPEG1 Audio is in the tables and TSPE's mode is set accordingly.

Even though the decode of the (broken) PMT shows the video as H.264/AVC TSPE sets the video mode it is operating with to MPEG2 (and I have to set that manually to H.264 via Options --> Video Mode --> H.264). Why?
Fixing the audio stream types worked as you described and afterwards also the video mode was set correctly when loading the stream.

The audio streams (in the original m2ts stream as well as in the remuxed and fixed stream) are displayed as being 64 kbit and 44100Hz:
PID: 0x184D: MPEG1 Audio Layer 2, 64Kbit/s @ 44100Hz
PID: 0x184E: MPEG1 Audio Layer 2, 64Kbit/s @ 44100Hz
In fact the streams are 256 Kbit/s @ 48000Hz.
So it looks like they are being mis-detected (doesn't look like this has any negative effect as far as I can tell, but I thought I'd mention it).

Another strange thing I found is that the +F button for advancing a frame doesn't seem to work properly. For example I am at position 01:18:33:28 (I,P,B slice). I click +F and I jump to 01:18:33:36 (I,P slice). I click +F again and now the video jumps back to 01:18:33:32 (I,P,B slice). Next steps are 01:18:33:34 (I,P,B slice), 01:18:33:42 (I slice), 01:18:33:38 (I,P,B slice), 01:18:33:40 (I,P,B slice). I would expect the +F button to always advance the video in time instead of jumping back and forth in time. Almost at the end there's even one point where it displays 01:18:33:54/01:18:33:52 (i.e. it says the frame being displayed is after the end of the stream, which doesn't seem to make sense).
Is there anything I am not understanding or overlooking or is this a bug?

Update: I found another likely bug: I loaded my video and picked an I slice for cut-in and cut-out. But when I load the cut-result, it turns out the cut-out-point is not the I-slice I selected, but instead the previous I,P slice. Therefore I'm losing a few frames while cutting. One of the main reasons I am looking into TSPE for editing my HDTV captures is that I want to cut my video as exact as possible, so while this is only very few frames that are lost it is an important issue for me. I hope that I'm either doing something wrong or that you can fix this.

Last but not least one more question: have you thought about adding an option to write the edit result to an mkv file instead of ts or would that be out of scope for TSPE?

Ventolin

21st March 2009, 18:21

Hi Vent

Thanks for your feedback.
Since I wrote to you last I have done many edits and all edits with 740 are Ok with TME, but not with the same edit with 755. I have uploaded a small edit(11.5 Mb) with 740 & 755
to rapidshare as follows:

1. Download Link: Click here to download file

http://rapidshare.com/files/211697415/HPOE1_740.edit.TS.html
MD5: 267150B041F5D2DFA48738AB1A139425

2. Download Link: Click here to download file

http://rapidshare.com/files/211697416/HPOE1_755.edit.TS.html
MD5: BB8EB9E52B5FA4B19D4D0B60479AB7B5

I think when you load a file into TME, it first looks at the begining of the input file to see if it is COMPLIANT or NON COMPLIANT according to their rules what is COMPLIANT or NON COMPLIANT.

I hope that the the 2 uploaded files will show you the difference.

Regards

dhnj
Hi dhnj,

The difference between the two files is the PAT (PID=0).

In 0.740 sample, the PAT includes a reference to a non-existent NIT (in red in the PID tree). In the 0.755 sample, the PAT does not reference the NIT as it is not present in the stream and must have been corrected while making the edit (as it should be).

So perhaps TME is looking for a PAT with a NIT? To test this, from your source file, simply check the NIT in the PID tree before you hit edit in 0.755. The NIT has a PID of 0x001F and is red in the PID tree.

Hopefully that will now make TME handle the file without re-encoding.

If that is the case, then this is a TME bug! The NIT is not mandatory for Transport Streams.

Please do let me know how you get on.

Regards,

Vent

Ventolin

21st March 2009, 18:55

Hi joerg,
Hi Vent,

thank you for your detailed answers. I hope I'm not bugging you too much with my questions, but I've got more ;)

Even though the decode of the (broken) PMT shows the video as H.264/AVC TSPE sets the video mode it is operating with to MPEG2 (and I have to set that manually to H.264 via Options --> Video Mode --> H.264). Why?
As mentioned before, the PMT generated by TsRemux is not correct, which causes TSPE to get things wrong. However, I have added a small modification to correct the mode setting in TSPE in such cases.

Fixing the audio stream types worked as you described and afterwards also the video mode was set correctly when loading the stream.
Great!

The audio streams (in the original m2ts stream as well as in the remuxed and fixed stream) are displayed as being 64 kbit and 44100Hz:
PID: 0x184D: MPEG1 Audio Layer 2, 64Kbit/s @ 44100Hz
PID: 0x184E: MPEG1 Audio Layer 2, 64Kbit/s @ 44100Hz
In fact the streams are 256 Kbit/s @ 48000Hz.
So it looks like they are being mis-detected (doesn't look like this has any negative effect as far as I can tell, but I thought I'd mention it).
Yes, this does look like a minor bug, it will only affect the display side of things and will not affect the output. Hopefully will have this fixed soon.

Another strange thing I found is that the +F button for advancing a frame doesn't seem to work properly. For example I am at position 01:18:33:28 (I,P,B slice). I click +F and I jump to 01:18:33:36 (I,P slice). I click +F again and now the video jumps back to 01:18:33:32 (I,P,B slice). Next steps are 01:18:33:34 (I,P,B slice), 01:18:33:42 (I slice), 01:18:33:38 (I,P,B slice), 01:18:33:40 (I,P,B slice). I would expect the +F button to always advance the video in time instead of jumping back and forth in time. Almost at the end there's even one point where it displays 01:18:33:54/01:18:33:52 (i.e. it says the frame being displayed is after the end of the stream, which doesn't seem to make sense).
Is there anything I am not understanding or overlooking or is this a bug?
I should really add this to the FAQ on the website :)

The frame step issue you are seeing is because TSPE works at very low level (right down to the Packet) - you are moving through the stream exactly how frames are stored in the stream. Have a look at the byte positions as you step forwards a frame, you'll notice they will be going up every time. Now look at the PTS/DTS timestamps in the Decode window as you frame step. You'll notice the PTS jumps backwards and forwards as you describe. The PCR timestamp will always go upwards however.

So you are able to see the frames in the stream exactly where they are in the stream!

The Frames are indeed stored in stream out of order. This is because there are different types of frames:

I - Frames (Index Frames)
P - Frames (Predicted Frames)
B - Frames (Bi-Directional Predicted Frames)

The I frame is a full frame like a jpg picture, the P frames use prediction from the previous frame(s) to create the frame and the B frames use prediction from previous and future frames to create the frame.

As frames can use previous and future frames they are stored out of order so the decoder always has enough information to create the frame without having to wait.

H.264 extends the idea from frames to slices of a picture where a frame can be made of I, P and B slices or combinations thereof.

While this is useful for the advanced users amoung us, I'll add in a mode where it works at the PTS (Presentation Time Stamp) level so frame +/- works as you would expect.

Update: I found another likely bug: I loaded my video and picked an I slice for cut-in and cut-out. But when I load the cut-result, it turns out the cut-out-point is not the I-slice I selected, but instead the previous I,P slice. Therefore I'm losing a few frames while cutting. One of the main reasons I am looking into TSPE for editing my HDTV captures is that I want to cut my video as exact as possible, so while this is only very few frames that are lost it is an important issue for me. I hope that I'm either doing something wrong or that you can fix this.
There could be a few reasons for this.

1. The end frame that you are seeing is the start of the frame in the stream. If you set the end point at this frame, then everything upto that point will be included, but not past that point. So try moving to the next frame (most likely will be a B frame) and then set the end point.

2. The Directshow Filter and TSPE are slightly out of sync. This can be tweaked a little with Menu->Options->Timestamp Mode->Preview Adjust. Try changing this from -12 to +12 and seeing how that affects start and end points.

3. Test the edit point between 2 edits by right clicking 2 entries in the EDL. Check the frames there. It might be that the Test start/end points miss a few frames, but a Test Edit Point should show all the frames as it would be in the final edit.

4. TSPE might have a bug in the Clean Edits logic, certainly this is under continual development.

Last but not least one more question: have you thought about adding an option to write the edit result to an mkv file instead of ts or would that be out of scope for TSPE?
Yes, I have thought about it alot, though MKV itself is quite a complex container, easily comparable to .TS.

I would love to add support for MKV but there are a number of issues that need to be resolved first, and it may be that MKV support is provided in a different product.

I do have some mkv streams that I do want to edit however, and I have not found a satisfactory editing solution, so MKV is definitely on my mind!

Hope that answers your questions, you are welcome to ask more :)

Regards,

Vent

dhnj

21st March 2009, 20:32

Hi dhnj,

The difference between the two files is the PAT (PID=0).

In 0.740 sample, the PAT includes a reference to a non-existent NIT (in red in the PID tree). In the 0.755 sample, the PAT does not reference the NIT as it is not present in the stream and must have been corrected while making the edit (as it should be).

So perhaps TME is looking for a PAT with a NIT? To test this, from your source file, simply check the NIT in the PID tree before you hit edit in 0.755. The NIT has a PID of 0x001F and is red in the PID tree.

Hopefully that will now make TME handle the file without re-encoding.

If that is the case, then this is a TME bug! The NIT is not mandatory for Transport Streams.

Please do let me know how you get on.

Regards,

Vent
Hi Vent

Many thanks for your quick reply.
I have tested your solution with 0.755 and it works great with TME(no re-encoding). Only outstanding point now is the documentation regarding Table Editor.

Regards

dhnj

joerg

21st March 2009, 20:59

Hi Vent,

thank you for your fast and very helpful answers.

There could be a few reasons for this.

1. The end frame that you are seeing is the start of the frame in the stream. If you set the end point at this frame, then everything upto that point will be included, but not past that point. So try moving to the next frame (most likely will be a B frame) and then set the end point.

This is what the stream I want to cut looks like around the cut-point (according to TSPE, i.e. using the +F button)

I,P
I,P,B
I,P,B
I,P
I,P,B
I,P,B
I
I,P,B
I,P,B
I,P
I,P,B
I,P,B
I,P
I,P,B
I,P,B
I <-- my cut-out-point

If I open the resulting stream the last frames look exactly like the sequence above (and look identical in the hex display), except that the final I-frame is not in the stream according to TSPE. Is that what you meant? With your explanation about the order frames are stored in this actually makes sense - in order to ever reach this last I-frame for displaying, the B-frames stored after the I-frame in the stream would be required, so it makes no sense to actually include this I-frame in the stream. So for me this basically means that I have to look for the I- or P-frame I'd like to cut at and then move ahead in the stream using the +F button until I reach the next I or P frame.

What I'd like to see is that this is handled automatically once you implement the mode for advancing frames at the PTS level (i.e. if I select the I-frame to cut at, automatically add in the frames following this one in the stream, but which are located before that I-frame looking at them at the PTS level). For the not-so-advanced users this would probably be very helpful. I am really looking forward to such a mode since my main goal is easy and accurate cutting.

btw: I noticed that the Jump button sometimes does not jump to the frame I set the cut-out at, but instead to the next frame in the stream. Maybe a minor bug?

Ventolin

21st March 2009, 22:56

Hi Joerg,

I'm not quite sure what you are doing still but perhaps it is easier to describe with a sample of what you want to do. Please send an edl with the sample so we both have a reference point.

Also, what video decoder are you using? FFDShow does have issues when requesting particular frames. The best directshow video filters to use for h264 are CoreAVC and from very initial tests, the MS h264 video filter from win7.

The most accurate way to see what is going on is when you make an edit point joining two video sections together, as the directshow codecs themselves need a fair bit of data to buffer in order to show what you want. So try and have 2 items in the edl and adjust the end point of the first to see what's really going on.

A final note is that TSPE isn't frame accurate yet, so might be a few frames out. This is defintely a work in progress though and I'm working hard on getting closer to that goal.

Regards,

Vent

Ventolin

21st March 2009, 22:57

BTW, editing your post while I'm replying to your previous post is cheating!

Vent :)

joerg

21st March 2009, 23:03

BTW, editing your post while I'm replying to your previous post is cheating!

Vent :)

:D
Sorry for editing - but I couldn't let that nonsense I wrote sit there and also couldn't know you were writing a reply.
So are things clearer with my edited post?

rebkell

21st March 2009, 23:07

:D
Sorry for editing - but I couldn't let that nonsense I wrote sit there and also couldn't know you were writing a reply.
So are things clearer with my edited post?

I think it's easier to see what is going on, if you had left the timestamps in there, because the sequence of frames were not in the sequence they would be displayed.

Ventolin

21st March 2009, 23:25

:D
Sorry for editing - but I couldn't let that nonsense I wrote sit there and also couldn't know you were writing a reply.
So are things clearer with my edited post?

A little bit yes, but send a sample with an edl so we can have a look at it :)

Vent

joerg

21st March 2009, 23:50

rebkell

22nd March 2009, 01:03

ok, here are the timestamps as requested by rebkell (added a few frames after my desired cut-I-frame as well)

01. I,P (01:23:59.64)
02. I,P,B (01:23:59.60)
03. I,P,B (01:23:59.62)
04. I,P (01:23:59.70)
05. I,P,B (01:23:59.66)
06. I,P,B (01:23:59.68)
07. I (01:23:59.76)
08. I,P,B (01:23:59.72)
09. I,P,B (01:23:59.74)
10. I,P (01:23:59.82)
11. I,P,B (01:23:59.78)
12. I,P,B (01:23:59.80)
13. I,P (01:23:59.88)
14. I,P,B (01:23:59.84)
15. I,P,B (01:23:59.86)
16. I (01:23:59.94) <-- my intended cut-out-point (this should be the last frame displayed by the player)
17. I,P,B (01:23:59.90)
18. I,P,B (01:23:59.92)
19. I (01:24:00.00)

If I try to set the cut-out at 16. all frames up to 15. are included in the resulting stream.
If I set the cut-point to 17., 18. or 19. all frames up to 18. are included in the resulting stream.

Vent: will try to send a sample tomorrow

Well, that makes sense, you can play with the Edit->EDL Option->Include Packet at End Point? , but since you want to cut out at 16, then you have to display 17 and 18 because they actually come before 16 according to the timestamps, the timestamps are the sequence they are displayed in, the actual frame display order is 17, 18, 16 ... but since 17 and 18 depend on the information in 16, that's about the best you can get is the three frame resolution, without flickering and corruption, at least that's been my experience.

rebkell

19th April 2009, 21:22

I've noticed when I drag an drop a file, that if I try to save the edl file, that it will default to the last location I saved an edl file in. I would think it should save it in the current directory of the ts file I'm currently editing.

Chumbo

19th April 2009, 21:57

rebkell

19th April 2009, 22:15

That's the default behavior of this standard Windows dialog.

I can understand that, but it's not really a good fit, you can change that default to the current directory of the current file you are editing, I would assume. I haven't programmed in C++ in a while, but it's pretty simple in C#, and I would assume it's pretty similar in C++.

Chumbo

19th April 2009, 22:39

I can understand that, but it's not really a good fit, you can change that default to the current directory of the current file you are editing, I would assume. I haven't programmed in C++ in a while, but it's pretty simple in C#, and I would assume it's pretty similar in C++.
Yes, it is easy in c++ too. The developer just has to wire it up that way.

rebkell

19th April 2009, 22:52

Yes, it is easy in c++ too. The developer just has to wire it up that way.

We'll call it a feature request. ;)

Ventolin

20th April 2009, 04:38

Hi rebkell, Chumbo

I've wired it up that way now just for you :)

Cheers,

Vent

rebkell

20th April 2009, 05:23

Hi rebkell, Chumbo

I've wired it up that way now just for you :)

Cheers,

Vent

Thanks.
:thanks:

Chumbo

20th April 2009, 16:50

Hi rebkell, Chumbo

I've wired it up that way now just for you :)

Cheers,

Vent
Very cool. Thank you. :)