Good Dot Crawl treatment?

[Codex0nz]

Well today i decided to start backing up my billy and mandy season 1 dvd, region=pal, sourced from madman (and its progressive for once not field blended thank god)

But i noticed some strange effects on it, after looking around i think it is dot crawl, but im not positive, i tried to use checkmate but it seemed to make everything blurry and worse :S

What is a good dot crawl correction technique?

here is a sample of where i noticed it the most: (17mb)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SK826XWI

I think i have a similar situation here as well with courage the cowardly dog, same region, same source but YAY field blending is back for more:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OEMQUINR
Also needs a derainbow pass i think :S

Any help is highly appreciated

[martino]

Take a look at CheckMate.

[thetoof]

i tried to use checkmate but it seemed to make everything blurry and worse
He already tried it.

You can give TComb a try. Very easy to follow the guide, very powerful...
Make sure you do it before deinterlacing.
Will run some tests later today.

[Codex0nz]

yeah i will get it working on the progressive footage before doing it on the field blended footage.

Thanks for the replies :)

I might be using checkmate wrong?

Checkmate()

it didnt appear to work when i was having trouble with derainbowing content either :S

[martino]

You apply it before deinterlacing. Raise the strength parameter too... just Checkmate(24) or whatever other value you want to try.

[Codex0nz]

Ok I will give a stronger checkmate pass a try, then come back with results :) the first source im using it on is progressive anyway so thats ok. I did notice that on my test the dot crawl was still there but the detailed areas seemed blurred :S maybe it was just me? Has anyone been able to confirm weather or not it is dot crawl from my sample? I will hopefully post screencaps tonight

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6504/dotcrawl1re5.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6411/dotcrawl2ds6.jpg

thats what its like straight off of the dvd by the way.

[R3Z]

Thats definately DotCrawl. With PAL you probably wont have much luck. I have tried all available filters and even hardware pass through devices with no luck at all. In fact i had more luck with VcMohans FQuiver frequency filter than any PAL "dotcrawl" removal plugins.

[Codex0nz]

Thats definately DotCrawl. With PAL you probably wont have much luck. I have tried all available filters and even hardware pass through devices with no luck at all. In fact i had more luck with VcMohans FQuiver frequency filter than any PAL "dotcrawl" removal plugins.

well damn, so there's no hope for removing this? :(

[R3Z]

well damn, so there's no hope for removing this? :(

Always have to try first before giving up :)

[Nightshiver]

Get an NTSC source.....

[Codex0nz]

Get an NTSC source.....

easier said than done.

with exchange rates the way they are going, and the fact were already in a recession, it's not just a hop down to the ntsc source store or the local amazon for me.

sent a massively angry email to madman :D

[Nightshiver]

That doesn't mean a dvd costs $100. They are still agonizingly cheap.

[Codex0nz]

That doesn't mean a dvd costs $100. They are still agonizingly cheap.

the shipping is generally the big cost, but i guess if i save up and get a few at a time it works out alright, where i get it from here ships to me for free -_-

Im guessing ntsc sources are a lot better than pal sources?

theres no ntsc source for courage the cowardly dog as far as i know

EDIT: Wow amazon has some damn good deals o_O

EDIT 2 : Holy crap, 50 usd = 94NZD -_- meh, i will get ntsc source from now on i suppose, probably better for quality

[thetoof]

If you only have PAL speedup, then PAL can be considered better since you have more spatial resolution (720x576 instead of 720x480).

However, PAL often has some nice field blending, which is sometimes so messed up that it can hardly be recovered.

NTSC is often only telecined, which is easily recoverable. The problem lies in the credits, when the production decided to make 'em run at the full NTSC framerate, which messes everything up (I'm working on a solution to mask them, apply a framerate conversion and then overlay them on the IVTCed background...). I also ran into field-blended NTSC, messed up pulldown patterns and more, but usually those are an exception. A good thing about NTSC is hybrid video, since you can have something running at 30p for smoother motion (or even interlaced, which when bobbed @ 60p, looks even smoother).

Bottomline is... depends on your source. Usually, the original DVD has the best video quality (japanese for anime & USA for cartoons).


For dot crawl, have you tried Tcomb as I suggested before? I don't have the time to test, but it might work well. Do it right after loading your mpeg2 stream (and tweak with the guide's help). tritical's Avisynth filters : http://web.missouri.edu/~kes25c/
If it makes it too blurry for your taste, sharpen it a bit! (awarpsharp, LFSmod...)

[Codex0nz]

If you only have PAL speedup, then PAL can be considered better since you have more spatial resolution (720x576 instead of 720x480).

However, PAL often has some nice field blending, which is sometimes so messed up that it can hardly be recovered.

NTSC is often only telecined, which is easily recoverable. The problem lies in the credits, when the production decided to make 'em run at the full NTSC framerate, which messes everything up (I'm working on a solution to mask them, apply a framerate conversion and then overlay them on the IVTCed background...). I also ran into field-blended NTSC, messed up pulldown patterns and more, but usually those are an exception. A good thing about NTSC is hybrid video, since you can have something running at 30p for smoother motion (or even interlaced, which when bobbed @ 60p, looks even smoother).

Bottomline is... depends on your source. Usually, the original DVD has the best video quality (japanese for anime & USA for cartoons).


For dot crawl, have you tried Tcomb as I suggested before? I don't have the time to test, but it might work well. Do it right after loading your mpeg2 stream (and tweak with the guide's help). tritical's Avisynth filters : http://web.missouri.edu/~kes25c/
If it makes it too blurry for your taste, sharpen it a bit! (awarpsharp, LFSmod...)
Yeah i will definitely only be sourcing cartoons from USA

As for anime, i've had pretty good luck with field blending now that i cranked out the fantastic script known as anime ivtc. But im currently looking at getting some box sets from the us, because lets face it, america has much nicer box sets then compared to here -_- looking at getting ghost in the shell SAC 2, the American Box Set (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000VNMMPC/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance) vs the Aus/NZ Box set (http://www.madman.com.au/actions/catalogue.do?releaseId=6868&method=view). The aus one is just a box with one side off to slide the dvds out while the american one is like a safe.

anyway back on topic i will try the method you have suggested this weekend and see how i go. Thank you very much for your help :)

[Blue_MiSfit]

If you haven't tried checkmate yet, do! It sometimes works even on progressive sources.

[edit]
nevermind, you have :(
[/edit

~MiSfit

[Codex0nz]

If you haven't tried checkmate yet, do! It sometimes works even on progressive sources.

[edit]
nevermind, you have :(
[/edit

~MiSfit

Lol i was about to say mate. Thanks for you input though :)

I also have obtained information that madman anime have ceased all use of field blending due to complaints, my respect for them is now rather high. Not many companies are willing to change their technical side of things for a small crowd of people that notice the lines, but they have :D

[R3Z]

He already tried it.

You can give TComb a try. Very easy to follow the guide, very powerful...
Make sure you do it before deinterlacing.
Will run some tests later today.

Just fyi Tcomb is only for NTSC material and wont work on PAL.

[Codex0nz]

Just fyi Tcomb is only for NTSC material and wont work on PAL.

well that's a bugger

what decombing filters do work on pal?

[thetoof]

Oh dang, sorry 'bout that... I just re-read the very first paragraph of the doc... guess I needed a little reminder :o
Just a hunch... maybe it can be treated as noise with FFT3DFilter? (with the same method I described in the rainbow thread, on a different plane)