Commercial book/ebook ...forbidden???

[Roco]

Hi,
sorry if this is a bit different subject than usual, but I couldn't find a more appropriate forum to post it, in order to have a chance of getting an answer from Avisynth documentation writers/developers:

If I'm right, the license that has been chosen for the documentation (CC BY-SA 3.0), forbids the commercial distribution of a book/ebook about Avisynth, since no matter how it will be written and from whatever perspective, it will have to be based more or less on some elements of the documentation, so it will be probably considered "derivative work" and it will be required to be "shared alike".
Is this true?

[Fizick]

Probably your work will be considered as derivative (ask lawyer).
Derivative work should be distributed share-a-like.
CC BY-SA license does NOT forbids commercial distribution.
But people can take your "derivative work" and re-distribute it (e.g., for free).
That was (is) our goal.

[Myrsloik]

Before I provide bad legal advice on the INTERNET, could you tell me exactly which part of the documentation you'd want to reproduce and why.

I mean if you're so desperate for function declarations or whatever you can always say you read it from the source and compose you own descriptive text for them. I fail to see the problem even if your premise is true. There are also lower limits of "copyrightability" where there only is one way to express things or in trivial cases.

Maybe you got some bad advice even without telling me...

[stickboy]

Facts are not copyrightable.

That, say, Trim takes three arguments, a clip, a starting frame number, and an inclusive ending frame number (with special meaning for non-positive values), is indisputable. I don't think there's anything stopping you from documenting AviSynth's public API, but don't copy-and-paste sections of the official documentation.

[Roco]

Probably your work will be considered as derivative (ask lawyer).
Derivative work should be distributed share-a-like.
CC BY-SA license does NOT forbids commercial distribution.
But people can take your "derivative work" and re-distribute it (e.g., for free).
That was (is) our goal.

Thanks Fizick for the reply!
It may not forbid it literally, but the result is about the same: Chances are, no one will buy a book (especially an e-book) if he can download it for free -and no one will invest in writing such a book and publish it commercially for the same reason.

What confuses me is the analogy of writing a book about a commercial product. If I was producing a commercial product, I would be very happy to hear that some writer(s) want to write a book and teach *my* customers about how to use it efficiently! That would mean a great promotion for that product! This situation is a "win-win" -everybody wins, including the customers who will have many more options even when the developer has already extended information available online for free or in their cds. This is no different for open-source products, because they would also benefit from attracting the attention of simple users and developers too!

Before I provide bad legal advice on the INTERNET, could you tell me exactly which part of the documentation you'd want to reproduce and why.

I mean if you're so desperate for function declarations or whatever you can always say you read it from the source and compose you own descriptive text for them. I fail to see the problem even if your premise is true. There are also lower limits of "copyrightability" where there only is one way to express things or in trivial cases.

Maybe you got some bad advice even without telling me...

Myrsloik and stickboy, thanks!
I don't need nor I want to copy any articles or descriptions, just the name and the parameters for each filter -the task to train the reader efficiently and provide extended information and analysis will be my responsibility.
But, what about the "External" filter plugins? Are there any copyright issues about *describing* them in a book?

[IanB]

... "External" filter plugins ...These are "owned" by the individual authors. Consult them.

If you are engaging in a commercial endeavour then you should get current professional legal advice.

[stickboy]

But, what about the "External" filter plugins? Are there any copyright issues about *describing* them in a book?Once again, facts are not copyrightable. (The particular form of expression of those facts might be, though, but IANAL. And it's probably good etiquette to discuss it with the filter authors first anyway, even if not legally required.)

[MfA]

If I'm right, the license that has been chosen for the documentation (CC BY-SA 3.0), forbids the commercial distribution of a book/ebook about Avisynth, since no matter how it will be written and from whatever perspective, it will have to be based more or less on some elements of the documentation
Could you perhaps correct me if I am wrong here? Avisynth documentation has a license which prohibits the distribution of similar documentation describing Avisynth under a commercial (non share-alike) license, simply because it has to share some words and concepts with the existing share-alike licensed documentation because of the subject matter.

^ see what I did there?

That's not how copyright works ... you just can't copy/past the existing share alike licensed documentation, without licensing the result the same. You can still use it and the code to describe how Avisynth works in your own words, even if some of those words will be shared with the existing documentation.

[Roco]

MfA, you have a point, IWYWAL (I wish you were a lawyer!) :)

stickboy, I'm beginning to understand what you mean by "facts are not copyrightable", like facts are not art...
I totally agree about your other suggestion. That was (is) in my intentions.

IANB, You're right. It seems that lawyers are unavoidable... Laws are written by lawyers in such a way that they are needed again to translate them to simple humans... even licenses for free software unfortunately!

Thank you all for your suggestions!

[Fizick]

Mfa, OK, lets he write his book.
We can later use it to describe how Avisynth works in our own words, even if some of those words will be shared with the existing book ;)


seriously, i do not like this.

[MfA]

Well there are a limited amount of synonyms in the English language, at some point we all have to share words whether you like it or not :)

I think I was misunderstood ... what exactly do you think I mean when I say "use" when I make it explicit he can't copy/paste it? I mean he can gain knowledge from it and describe that knowledge in his own words.

[mikeytown2]

Look to another Open Source Software package with a similar license. In terms of books being written oreilly (http://oreilly.com/) would be a good place to look. An example of GPL v2 software, having tons of books being written on it is Drupal (http://drupal.org/).

[Roco]

mikeytown2, thanks!!!

[sh0dan]

First of all, ask your publisher.

Second of all, if you don't copy/paste anything, you are to my knowledge not infridging the license. So in other words, you have to create original work, by doing all the writing yourself. I assume that's what you would do anyway. As pointed out there is much literature on similar licensed software/documentation.