intel T8300 vs quad 9300 speed test

[fjhdavid]

Dear all,

I would like to report to you something strange:
I use dvd-rb pro 1.28.2 and avisynth 2.57, HC encoder 0.23 and Vista 32bits on two different computers:

I tested the SAME re-encoding task with the SAME filters and here are the strange results:

T8100 (laptop PC, 2.1 Ghz, 3Mo cache, 45nm, 3GB ram):
7fps (1 core) and 11fps (2 cores for 2x5.5fps) ---> perfect!

Q9300 (desktop PC, 2.5Ghz, 2x3Mo cache, 45nm, 4GB ram):
8fps (1 core) and ONLY 7fps (4 cores for 4x1.8fps) ---> !!!!

did you encounter these kind of problem? what would be your suggestion? re-install software?

thanks
Francois

[buzzqw]

but what encoder used ?

BHH

[fjhdavid]

hc encoder 0.23

[fjhdavid]

I got deeply and it seems that dvd-rb 1.28.2 pro used with HC encoder 0.23 and avisynth 2.5.7 (under vista) have problems with quadcore that they don't have with dualcore

imagine you have a task which takes 12fps speed for 1 core, then you will have the following speed values with the following processors, assuming they have the same frequency speed:


dualcore:
1 core --> 12fps
2 cores --> 24fps ---> OK


quadcore:
1 core ---> 12fps
2 cores ---> 12fps (2 x 6fps) ---> not OK
3 cores ---> 12fps (3 x 4fps) ---> not OK
4 cores ---> 12fps (4 x 3fps) ---> not OK


it is very strange in fact, isn't it?

do you have any idea I could investigate?

thanks
Francois

[Dark Shikari]

I got deeply and it seems that dvd-rb 1.28.2 pro used with HC encoder 0.23 and avisynth 2.5.7 (under vista) have problems with quadcore that they don't have with dualcore

imagine you have a task which takes 12fps speed for 1 core, then you will have the following speed values with the following processors, assuming they have the same frequency speed:


dualcore:
1 core --> 12fps
2 cores --> 24fps ---> OK


quadcore:
1 core ---> 12fps
2 cores ---> 12fps (2 x 6fps) ---> not OK
3 cores ---> 12fps (3 x 4fps) ---> not OK
4 cores ---> 12fps (4 x 3fps) ---> not OKPerhaps you mean

1 core ---> 12fps
2 cores ---> 12fps (1 x 12fps)
3 cores ---> 12fps (1 x 12fps)
4 cores ---> 12fps (1 x 12fps)

Because that's what happens when you run a singlethreaded application on a multicore processor.

[fjhdavid]

no,no I confirm what I wrote

with the dualcore everything is ok, and not with the quad!

[Groucho2004]

Because that's what happens when you run a singlethreaded application on a multicore processor.

HC 0.23 is multithreaded unless "NOSMP" is specified.

@fjhdavid
From what I have read and have experienced myself, HC 0.23 scales quite well with the number of processors/cores. Your fps numbers are extremely low considering the processors you are using (T8100, Q9300). You should get well over 100 fps with the Q9300. What kind of filters are you using? Have you tried the multithreaded Avisynth?

[Dark Shikari]

HC 0.23 is multithreaded unless "NOSMP" is specified.But are his filters in Avisynth multithreaded?

[fjhdavid]

where can i find the "NOSMP" variable and status and check it (I didn't find it in rebuilder.ini)?


In fact I use a avisynth script which is heavy (fft3Dfilter...), BUT I tested the SAME script with the dualcore and the quad... that's why I think there is a problem somewhere...in the software....independantly of the use of MT avisynth...

this could be a problem for quadcore users...

in addition, both computers are under Vista pack 1, and I check all the parameters from one computer to the other...and EVERYTHING is identical...

[Groucho2004]

From the RB release notes:

- Added a new hidden setting called "HC_NOSMP" to the
REBUILDER.INI file. Setting "HC_NOSMP=1" (the default
setting) disables the use of SMP when multiple instances
are used. "HC_NOSMP=0" will allow SMP to run. Generally
the default (No SMP) is faster when run with multiple
processes, the parameter is provided to let the user
make the ultimate choice.


You might also try to run multiple instances of HC.

[fjhdavid]

thank you...but I tested "HC_NOSMP" with 0 and 1 and it looks the same....


the dualcore with 2 cores enabled is two times faster than the QUAD with 2 cores enabled (and also two times faster that the QUAD with 3 or 4 cores enabled!!!)

any additionnal ideas?

does someone have a QUAD 9300 and a dualcore and can confirm my test?

thanks

[Groucho2004]

How exactly do you enable/disable the cores?

Also, have you tried other multithreaded software to make sure all 4 cores are being used (like x264)?

[Wishbringer]

Give it a try and disable "multible encoder processes" in DVD-RB.
It's a bit silly, but when HCenc supports SMP (HC_NOSMP=0), why should you start it four times?!
Imho it only uses more ram.

[fjhdavid]

Groucho,

I enable and disable cores in "settings" menu "multiple encoders" or I set directly value in the file rebuilder.ini in the ""%LOCALAPPDATA%\VIRTUALSTORE\Program Files\ DVD-RB Pro" folder because I am under vista.

Anyway in the quick launch bar I see how many cores are enabled each time.

I also tested my quadcore with mediacoder (h.264 encoding) and the 4 cores work perfectly, I have 50fps with 1 core and around 190fps with 4 cores! so the Quadcore works

an additional info:
even if I don't use avisynth, so just DVD-RB and HC encoder 0.23, with "force re-encoding setting" I have the same problem:

on my Dualcore : 1 core is 12fps and 2 cores is 24fps
on my Quadcore : 1 core is 12fps and 4 cores is 12fps!!!

my conclusion is that it seems that DVD-RB has a problem to handle 2,3 or 4 cores on a QUAD processor only, as it works perfectly with a dualcore.

maybe Jdobbs has already an idea?

I can run others tests if necessary.

Francois

[SpazzHH]

I have both a Core 2 Duo 6600 and a Core 2 Quad Q9550, and have no problems with RB at all, so I don't think the problem is there. I run the regular Avisynth 2.56 that comes with RB. Now I do have to say that when I first got the Quad core(I upgraded from another E6600 - I did have two), I had to first disable Multiple Encoder Processes and then re-enable it for all four core to show up in RB.

[fjhdavid]

my 4 cores also show up in RB when I enable "Multiple Encoder Processes".

but the question is:

does the quadcore with 4 cores enabled is about 4x times faster than with only 1 core enabled?


which encoder are you using?
which version of dvd-rb are you running (because avisynth 2.56 is quite a bit old)?


thanks
Francois

[SpazzHH]

yes, it is 4x faster

I use HC 0.23

The current 1.28.2

[fjhdavid]

and you disable and re-enable the 4 cores each time you use dvd-RB in order to get the 4x speed?

do you change or enable something else in dvd-rb settings or vista settings?

NB: the only difference beetween the Q9300 and Q9550 is the L2 cache memory size, but does it have to do with dvd-RB and multiple encoder processes?

[SpazzHH]

I only had to make that one change when I first used RB after upgrading. I've not had to change or alter anything else. RB works exactly like it should on my end.

[fjhdavid]

sorry to ask you that for the last time, but when you said the
Q9550 is 4x faster when 4 cores are enabled, it means that you have the same fps speed on each 4 cores than the speed you will have if you use ONLY 1 core?

example:
for one core: 12fps
for 4 core you will have 48fps (4x12fps)

can you check that for the last time please?

Thank you
Francois

[SpazzHH]

yes,yes,yes,yes,yes,yes,

[fjhdavid]

I am still looking for the solution!

Does "antivir" is known to slowdown encoding?

do you know some software which can explain this slowdown?

thanks
Francois

[jdobbs]

I am still looking for the solution!

Does "antivir" is known to slowdown encoding?

do you know some software which can explain this slowdown?

thanks
FrancoisYes. In fact it would be safe to say that "antivirus" slows everything... encoding would be included in that universe. :)

[linx05]

I always disable my AV when performing hard disk intensive operations.

[fjhdavid]

honnestly, I disabled everything, and nothing help. What is surprising is that with mediacoder I have the 4x speed.

SpazzHH what is the fps you have with each core when multiple encoder are enabled with HC.023 and profile Best with a 704x576 or 704x480?

I would like to compare with my numbers?

Thanks
Francois

(or give me your fps with the options you use usually, if you prefer)

edit 2: I tested my system under sandra 2009 and the processor is good (arithmetic, float, core interconnection....), maybe only 15% less than yours

[SpazzHH]

I usually get around 80 fps with one core, and 4x76 fps with four instances of HC running.

[fjhdavid]

I don't have my quad computer with me until tomorrow, but I have an idea:

CCE is not compliant with quadcore but with dualcore only, and when I installed DVD-RB, I didn't uncheck the CCE option at the beginning of the installation process.

Maybe it can introduce some incompatibilty? even if I cancel the CCE installation at the end of the process (because I don't have it and I use HC encoder)

did you heard about this kind of problem SpazzHH or Jdobbs?

[SpazzHH]

No, never heard of it. It shouldn't cause a problem other than RB not knowing where to find CCE if you select it as the encoder. And for what it's worth, I have no problems running CCE either. Although it surely doesn't run 4 times as fast, it doesn't exactly poke around. There is not even a hint of any compatibility issue that you speak of. I've never heard of that one either.

[fjhdavid]

my results are with dvd-RB pro 1.28.2:

for a PAL movie 704x576 with HC encoder 0.23 "best profile" without "lossless" option, I have with a quadcore Q9300 at 2.5Ghz:

with 1 core: 140fps for 1st and 2nd pass
with 4 cores: 40pfs for each core and each pass

SpazzHH I have more than you with 1 core and less than you with the 4 cores.

I have re-installed all my computer as it was 2 weeks ago when I purchased it (I have no other applications installed) and just running vista 32bits pack 1 and no avisynth filters.

What can I do? I really don't understand!

I think the problem comes from dvd-RB as mediacoder can do the job with the full speed of the 4 cores and, as I have no other applications installed ?

does other people are using quadcore?

what do I have to try? Jdobbs any suggestions?

thanks
Francois

[SpazzHH]

I think the only difference is I have SMP disabled within HC and just use multiple encoder processes within RB, essentially using four single core instances. There was not much difference in total speed, and it left my computer much more responsive when it came to doing other things while RB was running. But anyhow, I can assure you that the problem is NOT with DVD-RB. All it does is pass on the settings you give it to the encoder, and wait for it to finish. The only other difference is that I'm running on XP.

[fjhdavid]

I tested with SMP disabled too, but as you said very little difference (I also tested everything in Administrator mode, without success)

I think the only explanation is that you use XP instead of Vista!
(For example, I read in the mediacoder "changelog" that they correct a bug for quadcore and vista)

what could be the story, is:

with XP : dualcore and quadcore are very well handled with DVD-RB
with Vista : dualcore are OK but speed problem occurs with quadcore

the problem is that I don't have XP, so I can't test with it! but where could be the problem as I have no other software installed?

in addition, I tested with Quenc 0.72 and I have exactly the same problem! so I don't think it is a problem from HC encoder 0.23, except if Quenc 0.72 and HC encoder have BOTH a problem with vista and quadcore which is after all possible!


but maybe Jdobbs has already an idea?

what could be intresting, is to know if others people using Vista and quadcore have the same problem?

[SpazzHH]

How can you possibly think the problem is with DVD-RB if all it does is tell the encoder to start and wait for it to finish?

[fjhdavid]

honnestly, I don't know how DVD-RB work, but:

if it was vista, then mediacoder wouldn't work 4x faster and it does!
if it was hc_encoder, then Quenc has the same problem (which is possible)

if it was my computer (it is completely new with no other software installed), then Sandra would tell me about a problem with the UC performance or memory management (which is not the case), and one more time mediacoder won't run 4x faster

I don't know where is the problem, but it does exist

I just give to you, Jdobbs and others all the informations and suggestions I have, but I never doubt that DVD-RB is a great piece of software and I use it every week with avisynth filters, but I bought my quad ONLY for DVD-RB in order to go faster!

and I think that more and more people will have a quadcore with Vista....

[fjhdavid]

Jdobbs, I read in another post that you have a quadcore, do you use XP or vista?

[GZZ]

I use DVD-RB on a quadcore and it works very well. I get great speed with HC Encoder, but a bit 'lower' speed with CCE (dont think it that well optimized for Quadcore CPU compared to HC encoder) and I'm running Vista.

[fjhdavid]

could you give some figures (fps) please with 1 core enabled and 4 cores enabled (for the same task) and with hc-encoder?

It would help me
thanks

[fjhdavid]

I had more free time and go further.

I re-formated completely my hard drive and installed two partitions with Windows vista SP1 in the first one and Windows XP pro SP3 on the other.

I only installed avisynth 2.57 and dvd_RB pro 1.28.2 and HC encoder 0.23 on both partitions and I choose the OS during the boot (dualboot system).

The results are the same with vista and XP pro:

one core: 8fps
four core : 4 x 2fps = 8fps and not 32fps (4 x 8fps) as it should be !


my chipset is a nvidia nforce 630i and my quadcore is an Q9300 with 4GB ram and my hd is a 500GB running under "sata ahci" mode.

PS:
- mediacoder is still working at 4 times the speed when the 4 cores are enabled (so it doesen't come from the system)
- my laptop is still working at 2 times the speed when 2 cores are enabled on a core2 T8400 (so dvd_RB is working as it should be on a dual core)

last:
- yesterday I heard that another friend of mine has the same problem with its quadcore.

Jdobbs, did you have an idea? do you need more details from me?

thanks

[burfadel]

Under 32 bit vista/xp you are limited to around 3gb of RAM, the rest is wasted...

Does anyone know how a Q8300 compares to the Q9300? They are essentially the same chip except the Q8300 has only 4mb of cache instead of 6mb of cache. Actually the Q8300 is a later revision CPU! The Q9300 seems to have stopped being made.

I've heard a rumour that the chip performs very similarly. To go one better, the Q8200 which runs at 2.33Ghz (compared to 2.5ghz) has essentially the same overclocking ability from what I've heard as the Q9300, making it a very viable option since its cheaper to start with. Just wondering whether anyone has a Q8200/Q8300 and can shed light on their performance and overclocking potential?

Thanks!

This is a little off-topic, but is still related to this topic since its about quad core speed and is similar to the Q9300.

[jdobbs]

@fjhdavid

It all depends on how you've configured HCEnc. It takes advantage of multiple processors by default... what do you see when you bring up the Task Manager? Does it show all four processors chugging away? Are you using "multiple encoder processes"?

I don't think the problem is within DVD-RB -- or it would affect others too...

[fjhdavid]

when I bring the task manager I see 4 instances and each one is at the "maximum use" the UC is globally 100% used.

I use "multiple encoder processes" and it is written "(4)".

when I use no filters (avisynth is not used) but I check "force re-encoder" I have for a 704x576 PAL movie:

- 65fps with one core (I see only in the launch bar one instance of HC encoder)
- 4 x 20fps (I see 4 instances of HC encoder in the launch bar)


I should have around 4 x 65fps instead od 4 x 20fps?

[jdobbs]

Not necessarily 4x. You have four processors, but they are sharing memory and disc... I would have thought you would see something better than 4 x 20fps though.

[fjhdavid]

yes! me either; and what is strange is:

- on my laptop with a core2duo, I see almost 2x times the speed!

- in mediacoder, as I said, the speed with 4 cores is almost 4x the speed with one core !


I think there is somethng strange with the quad and dvd-RB?

where is the problem? (there is no other software on my computer)

[Adub]

The problem is not with DVD-RB. DVD-RB is just the boss that tells it's minions to do work. It's the minions that cause all of the cpu usage. And it would be the minions that are causing "something strange".

[fjhdavid]

yes I know, but why mediacoder (h.264 encoding) is working as it should be (almost x4 faster)? In addition, my computer is completly new without any other program installed....

It is maybe a timing problem or a bottleneck, Jdobbs has maybe to add something special for the quadcore that is not necessary for dualcore (kind of wait state, queue managing, memory management)?

Jdobbs, any ideas? I become crazy...with my slow quadcore which goes 2x slower than my dualcore laptop!

[Groucho2004]

yes I know, but why mediacoder (h.264 encoding) is working as it should be (almost x4 faster)?

That's comparing apples and oranges. It does however confirm that your 4 cores are working as they should so it's not a hardware problem.

Jdobbs has maybe to add something special for the quadcore that is not necessary for dualcore (kind of wait state, queue managing, memory management)?

The problem is not the software (DVD-RB/HC), it's more likely something in your configuration. However, even having read through this thread twice I can't figure out what the problem is, you seem to have configured everything correctly...

Edit:
Post a screenshot of your Taskmanager (processes tab) when DVD-RB is working with 4 instances of HC. Make sure you capture all processes (you might need 2 screenshots).

[jdobbs]

yes I know, but why mediacoder (h.264 encoding) is working as it should be (almost x4 faster)? In addition, my computer is completly new without any other program installed....

It is maybe a timing problem or a bottleneck, Jdobbs has maybe to add something special for the quadcore that is not necessary for dualcore (kind of wait state, queue managing, memory management)?

Jdobbs, any ideas? I become crazy...with my slow quadcore which goes 2x slower than my dualcore laptop! I use a quadcore for all of my encoding -- no issues here.

Have you tried setting/resetting the HC_NOSMP option (see the REBUILDER.TXT for details)? It's possible the HC in multiple instance mode is walking on itself... you may also want to look at your memory usage and see if you are swapping. HC uses a lot of memory. You may even find that running two instances (Encode_Processes=2) with SMP on (HC_NOSMP=0) might be faster.

[jdobbs]

when I bring the task manager I see 4 instances and each one is at the "maximum use" the UC is globally 100% used.

I use "multiple encoder processes" and it is written "(4)".

when I use no filters (avisynth is not used) but I check "force re-encoder" I have for a 704x576 PAL movie:

- 65fps with one core (I see only in the launch bar one instance of HC encoder)
- 4 x 20fps (I see 4 instances of HC encoder in the launch bar)


I should have around 4 x 65fps instead od 4 x 20fps?This is an incorrect assumption, by the way. When you run a single instance of HC it has SMP enabled... which means it is already using all four cores. Using multiple instances disables SMP by default to make it more efficient. But you would never be able to get 4 x 65fps.

[fjhdavid]

Groucho 2004, I attached a copy of the 4 cores instance and processes.

Jdobbs, I already played with "NO_SMP" option and it changes nothing.

I tested dvd-rb pro, as I said, under Vista and XP, and even in "safe mode".

I had a wireless keyboard and I unpluged it. Could it be a conflict betwen dvd-rb and the wireless keyboard?

I think there are only two drivers installed, the nvidia graphic card driver(which is a 9500GS), and the nvidia chipset driver which is a nforce 630i. and that's all!

Jdobbs which chipset do you have?
Groucho and Jdobbs, could it be the chipset driver?

BUT, as I said, mediacoder works as it should be at 4x speed.

Jdobbs, Groucho, what are your suggestions please?


.

[jdobbs]

It changes nothing? I find that hard to believe. It has a lot of impact on how HC operates.

[Groucho2004]

Groucho 2004, I attached a copy of the 4 cores instance and processes.

First of all, you're running 4 instances of HC with SMP enabled (4 threads each). Not sure if this helps the speed. This may explain the enormous amount of memory they are using. How much memory do you have installed on that machine? How much free physical memory do you have when this is running? 32 or 64 Bit OS?