PAL DTS stream to NTSC DTS?

[LastCallHall]

Hey all,

I'm working on an Akira DVD which will contain 1) The 5.1 Pioneer newly dubbed track, 2) the Japanese 2.0 track, 3) the 2.0 Original Streamline audio track and 4) a 5.1 mix of the Streamline track as well. So far I have 1-3, all in NTSC format and I have a PAL MKV copy of the Akira movie w/ a 5.1 original track. You can see my problem. What I'm wanting to know is, can I demux the dts file (which ive already done) and somehow convert it to the 29.97 FPS rate I need to compile my own dvd? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!

[tebasuna51]

PAL and NTSC are video systems with different FPS, but the audio DTS, or other, are played equal at both systems.

If the video conversion PAL <-> NTSC preserve the video duration the audio can remain untouched.
If the video duration is different then you need change the audio duration.

You say: convert from 25 to 29.97 FPS
this implies make the audio 0.83417 short
Are you sure?

[LastCallHall]

PAL and NTSC are video systems with different FPS, but the audio DTS, or other, are played equal at both systems.

If the video conversion PAL <-> NTSC preserve the video duration the audio can remain untouched.
If the video duration is different then you need change the audio duration.

You say: convert from 25 to 29.97 FPS
this implies make the audio 0.83417 short
Are you sure?

Hmm... Didn't know that about DTS - I'm learning as I go (a lot, as it turns out).

Ok, well, when I demuxed the audio stream from the mkv file and placed it into my DVD-Lab Pro project, it's about 4 minutes shorter than all my other audio tracks. Maybe it's encoded at 23 FPS, and I just need to convert the whole file into a MPEG using a 3:2 pulldown then demux?

Again, any help is appreciated.

[setarip_old]

@LastCallHall

Hi!

Your initial post is a bit unclear to me:What I'm wanting to know is, can I demux the dts file (which ive already done) and somehow convert it to the 29.97 FPS rate I need to compile my own dvd?1) Doesn't your original NTSC DVD already contain a DTS audio track?

2) What was your purpose in creating an MKV from your original PAL DVD, if all you want to do is incorporate the DTS audio of the PAL DVD with your NTSC DVD?

[LastCallHall]

@LastCallHall

Hi!

Your initial post is a bit unclear to me:1) Doesn't your original NTSC DVD already contain a DTS audio track?

No; the R1 DVD of Akira only has a 5.1 mix of the new audio dub, not the original, along with the Japanese stereo track. To get the original audio dub that was NOT included with the DVD, I had to take a VHS tape and manually edit the audio track to match the DVD's video.

2) What was your purpose in creating an MKV from your original PAL DVD, if all you want to do is incorporate the DTS audio of the PAL DVD with your NTSC DVD?

The MKV was the only file I could obtain that contained a 5.1 mix of the audio. Like I mentioned before - this may not be a PAL afterall - this may be a 23 FPS video file. Not too sure on that.

[CirTap]

Hi,
a PAL native here :-)
Just FYI: it's very common for a PAL release based on a genuine NTSC (US/JP) to play somewhat "faster", read they're usually "quicker to watch".
Since "movie theater" releases are 24/p, they're choosen as the source for the 25/p PAL version. They do run slightly quicker (~ 2min/h) but feature the same image quality. It's just that the 29.97/i DVD/VHS version can/has to use the same audio track so there'll be no time difference.
You can however hear the difference in the PAL release simply by comparing the background music + sound FX if played side-by-side.
If a movie gets translated, the speach is dubbed separately after the movie was converted to 25fps (TV).

I'd say, you need to stretch the track by those 4 minutes.

Just compare the original "run length" of a movie released in both formats: its US/NTSC version is (almost) always a few minutes longer although it doesn't feature any additional footage or scenes == same "cut". ("Basic Instinct" is one of those movies that contained more scenes in EU than it's US counterpart ;->)

Certainly no proof but have a look at the "Spieldauer" of this Akira (PAL @ amazon.de) (http://www.amazon.de/Akira-Katsuhiro-Otomo/dp/B00004RNE7/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1225675842&sr=8-6) and the "Run Time" of that Arika (NTSC @ amazon.com) (http://www.amazon.com/Akira-Mitsuo-Iwata/dp/B00005MAM2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1225675949&sr=8-3) ... interesting difference <g>
Pick any other movie and you'll see similar results.

Have fun,
CirTap

[madshi]

If a movie gets translated, the speach is dubbed separately after the movie was converted to 25fps.
That might be true for direct DVD to DVD releases, I don't know. But I'm quite sure that this isn't true for movies which are shown in European cinemas, because cinemas use 24fps. So I'm quite sure that such movies are dubbed in 24fps.

[tebasuna51]

Originally Posted by CirTap
If a movie gets translated, the speach is dubbed separately after the movie was converted to 25fps.
That might be true for direct DVD to DVD releases, I don't know. But I'm quite sure that this isn't true for movies which are shown in European cinemas, because cinemas use 24fps. So I'm quite sure that such movies are dubbed in 24fps.

Then DVD PAL movies are always 4% short (in time) than NTSC movies (and cinema version of course)?

[madshi]

Then DVD PAL movies are always 4% short (in time) than NTSC movies (and cinema version of course)?
Yes, all my PAL DVDs are 4% shorter in runtime compared to NTSC DVDs or Blu-Rays. Also if you download SRT subtitle files there are always two versions: One that syncs to NTSC (longer runtime) and one that syncs to PAL (4% shorter runtime).

[CirTap]

That might be true for direct DVD to DVD releases, I don't know. But I'm quite sure that this isn't true for movies which are shown in European cinemas, because cinemas usd 24fps. So I'm quite sure that such movies are dubbed in 24fps.oops, my bad. You're right, it's 24fps for cinema, but 25 for TV (series and such). Whatever; it's been late here and I was actually wondering myself about any value... it was too late to do the proper math ;-)
Nonetheless, and I second madshi's comment, PAL is "faster" and you get a more or less audiable shift of the background sounds.
I had a hard -- but fun -- exprience restoring several corrupted segments of a german dub with their original counterparts of an english version; tunes went up and down :-)

CirTap