upconverting

[mikeylikess99]

hi there, i currently have a samsung upconverting dvd player and a toshiba regza tv. what id like to know is what is the highest resolution i can get to make a dvd play back on my standalone. are there ways of taking a hd movie, putting it on a regular dvd, with tweaking, or impossible. tyvm in advance.

[fibbingbear]

Your post was a bit confusing. What device is the "standalone"? [I'll assume it's the samsung player for this post, and I'll assume NTSC]

I believe all NTSC DVDs have a maximum resolution of 720x480. As such, for any DVD you make/buy, that is it's maximum resolution. If you put it in a non-upconverting player, it can't go higher.

If you put it in an upconverting player, the resolution on the DVD is still 720x480, but the player can apply some fancy scaling algorithms to make it look like it's a higher resolution. Unfortunately, the algorithms can't create data where there isn't. So if you go too high, it'll be obvious that it's just blowing up the image. I'm not familiar with the algorithms used or Samsung, but my understanding is that they do a decent job of making it look nice at higher resolutions.

Just remember, the higher and hgher resolution you go, the more and more it's going to look like it's just blown up.

As for your comment if you can make it look like a HD movie, I seriously doubt that. It'll probably look nicer with upscaling, but I doubt it's a huge difference. You should experiment around and see what you like.

[mikeylikess99]

Your post was a bit confusing. What device is the "standalone"? [I'll assume it's the samsung player for this post, and I'll assume NTSC]

I believe all NTSC DVDs have a maximum resolution of 720x480. As such, for any DVD you make/buy, that is it's maximum resolution. If you put it in a non-upconverting player, it can't go higher.

If you put it in an upconverting player, the resolution on the DVD is still 720x480, but the player can apply some fancy scaling algorithms to make it look like it's a higher resolution. Unfortunately, the algorithms can't create data where there isn't. So if you go too high, it'll be obvious that it's just blowing up the image. I'm not familiar with the algorithms used or Samsung, but my understanding is that they do a decent job of making it look nice at higher resolutions.

Just remember, the higher and hgher resolution you go, the more and more it's going to look like it's just blown up.

As for your comment if you can make it look like a HD movie, I seriously doubt that. It'll probably look nicer with upscaling, but I doubt it's a huge difference. You should experiment around and see what you like.

thanks fibbingbear, and your right it is the samsung
this one actually, http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05798618000P?vName=Computers+%26+Electronics&cName=Audio+%26+Home+Theater
. i guess i was hoping when i originally bought it that with upscaling feature, id be watching hd on all dvd movies. and the720 is what i also wanted to know. so all dvd movies in ntsc are in fact 720x. correct. i guess my next buy will actually be a hd dvd player, so i can watch dvd dl movies on the standalone.

[fibbingbear]

Don't forget if you buy a HD player (I assume blu-ray), it still won't give you any better resolution if you put in a regular DVD (DVD+R DL and DVD-R DL included). However, if you buy a blu-ray disc, then it will be able to play it in HD, while a regular DVD player wouldn't even be able to read it.

[Guest]

so i can watch dvd dl movies on the standalone.
What is a "dvd dl movie"?

[LoRd_MuldeR]

thanks fibbingbear, and your right it is the samsung
this one actually, http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05798618000P?vName=Computers+%26+Electronics&cName=Audio+%26+Home+Theater
. i guess i was hoping when i originally bought it that with upscaling feature, id be watching hd on all dvd movies. and the720 is what i also wanted to know. so all dvd movies in ntsc are in fact 720x. correct. i guess my next buy will actually be a hd dvd player, so i can watch dvd dl movies on the standalone.

Don't mix up "720x480" with "720p". 720x480 is the NTSC resolution and it is used on all Video-DVD's. There is no higher resolution on Video-DVD possible!
At the same time "720p" refers to a resolution of 1280×720, which is one of the so-called HD resolutions. "1080p" refers to a resolution of 1920×1080.

A Video-DVD of 720x480 (NTSC) will never look even close to 1280×720 (720p) or 1920×1080 (1080p). Upscaling cannot change this fact !!!

Of course a normal Video-DVD will look better on a HD Screen when using a high-quality upscaler, instead of letting the screen's internal scaler do the job.
But missing detail can not be magically created! Real "HD" media (e.g. BlueRay) with 720p/1080p content will look significantly better than an "upscaled" DVD.

And to answer you initial question: Putting a HD movie on a "regular" DVD will loose MUCH detail. Re-upscaling it later won't look even close to the original!

What is a "dvd dl movie"?

Double Layer

[mikeylikess99]

Don't forget if you buy a HD player (I assume blu-ray), it still won't give you any better resolution if you put in a regular DVD (DVD+R DL and DVD-R DL included). However, if you buy a blu-ray disc, then it will be able to play it in HD, while a regular DVD player wouldn't even be able to read it.

wow really? wholly im just totally surprised now. i thought dvd dl , dual layer dvd was hd, just a different format than blu ray! if im understanding correctly, your saying the only way to watch hd is to view it through blu ray? how i defined hd is when i watch a movie i can see the definition of the pic been crisp and full, however this is only viewed on blu ray, not hd? viewed that at a local curcuit city, they had a htib and were showcasing with a movie, the scene been with snowballs flying around. was totally remarkable.
while i appreciate the new found information regarding hd, it kinda bums me out, as the unit i have now will be useless, unless i can just get a samsung blu ray dvd player compatible?...to think i paid 299 for this thing...once again thanks

[LoRd_MuldeR]

As said before, a "regular" DVD is 720x480. No matter if it's a SL or DL disc. This fact won't change if you put the disc into a HD player! Upscaling won't change this fact either!
The only way to watch HD video at 1280x720 (720p) or at 1920x1080 (1080p) is either the Blue-Ray disc or the HD-DVD disc. But HD-DVD has lost the format war, it's a dead format.
Of course you can get HD content from other sources (internet or broadcasting). But if you want HD on an optical disc, then Blue-Ray is the only way to go...

And to make it 100% clear:
HD-DVD is a completely different thing than Video-DVD. "Double Layer" is simply one type of Video-DVD discs (in fact the most common type), but it's not related to HD-DVD at all!
Video-DVD is always 720x480, no matter if it's a "Double-Layer" or a "Single-Layer" disc. It will never be HD. Only HD-DVD and Blue-Ray are HD (1280x720 or 1920x1080).

[mikeylikess99]

As said before, a "regular" DVD is 720x480. No matter if it's a SL or DL disc. This fact won't change if you put the disc into a HD player! Upscaling won't change this fact either!
The only way to watch HD video at 1280x720 (720p) or at 1920x1080 (1080p) is either the Blue-Ray disc or the HD-DVD disc. But HD-DVD has lost the format war, it's a dead format.
Of course you can get HD content from other sources (internet or broadcasting). But if you want HD on an optical disc, then Blue-Ray is the only way to go...

And to make it 100% clear:
HD-DVD is a completely different thing than Video-DVD. "Double Layer" is simply one type of Video-DVD discs (in fact the most common type), but it's not related to HD-DVD at all!
Video-DVD is always 720x480, no matter if it's a "Double-Layer" or a "Single-Layer" disc. It will never be HD. Only HD-DVD and Blue-Ray are HD (1280x720 or 1920x1080).

thanks lord, yes im totally clear on the hd stuff now. blu ray or nothing or nothing. my payer will only play dvdr movies with a degree of upscaling. i will start looking into a blu compatible payer for my samsung audio. i really enjoy the sound. its phenominal!. thanks once again all....

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Well, the only survivor for HD content on an optical disc is Blue-Ray, because HD-DVD has lost the format war. There won't be any new HD-DVD players or discs.
However optical discs might die out as a whole in the near future. Most likely the Internet will become the preferred way to distribute HD content.

I personally did not buy any HD player yet and most likely I will never buy a standalone player again. Maybe I buy a Blue-Ray drive for my PC one day, maybe not....

[mikeylikess99]

Well, the only survivor for HD content on an optical disc is Blue-Ray, because HD-DVD has lost the format war. There won't be any new HD-DVD players or discs.
However optical discs might die out as a whole in the near future. Most likely the Internet will become the preferred way to distribute HD content.

I personally did not buy any HD player yet and most likely I will never buy a standalone player again. Maybe I buy a Blue-Ray drive for my PC one day, maybe not....
Hi lord, just out of curiosity, my tv toshiba regza , and my player both support usb, and in reading to see if there were other thing i could do with the dvd player, i was reading that i could play moviies through this option.now are they meaning just minor clips, or could i use my pc to tv to view blu ray content. im grasping at straws here i realize, but perhaps ill pull the golden needle.....thanks once again.

[fibbingbear]

If they say you can play stuff through USB, I'd assume it'd mean just about anything that can be PC to TV. However, I can't imagine why they'd use a USB plug to do it --- I don't think it'd have enough bandwidth to support streaming video, even small clips (unless the TV or DVD player has a hard drive, which I would doubt). Maybe your instruction manual will tell you more?

And just to re-iterate, a DVD is totally different from a HD-DVD disc which is totally different than a Blu-Ray Disc. They aren't interchangeable. DVD DL can hold ~9 gigabytes of data, HD-DVD can hold ~30 gigabytes, and Blu-Ray can hold ~50 gigabytes. No matter what algorithms your player will apply, you can't make up for that difference in data.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

It's not only a question of data capacity, it's also (and most important) a question of video format: While the Video-DVD (DL and SL) uses the MPEG-2 format at 720x480 (NTSC) respectively 720x576 (PAL), the Blue-Ray disc and HD-DVD use H.264 at an resolution of 1280x720 (720p) or 1920x1080 (1080p). VC-1 and MPEG-2 are also supported on Blue-Ray/HD-DVD. So you could store a full-length HD movie at a decent quality on a "normal" DVD-DL (9 GB) media using the H.264 compression (instead of MPEG-2), but unfortunately a DVD-Player wouldn't play such disc because of unsupported video format...

[mikeylikess99]

It's not only a question of data capacity, it's also (and most important) a question of video format: While the Video-DVD (DL and SL) uses the MPEG-2 format at 720x480 (NTSC) respectively 720x576 (PAL), the Blue-Ray disc and HD-DVD use H.264 at an resolution of 1280x720 (720p) or 1920x1080 (1080p). VC-1 and MPEG-2 are also supported on Blue-Ray/HD-DVD. So you could store a full-length HD movie at a decent quality on a "normal" DVD-DL (9 GB) media using the H.264 compression (instead of MPEG-2), but unfortunately a DVD-Player wouldn't play such disc because of unsupported video format... hey guys, thanks for the leaps of information.i am finding this thread very, very useful, and i thouroughly appreciate the facts(information). as i had no idea the differences. my understanding that, after speaking to a rep were i bought the htib at sears tells me that i can indeed use the surround sound from my system, on a future blu ray system though its only 2.1 lol, did sound better than anything we listened to that day, that was under 500 including a sony!!
what im tthrowing around rightnow in my head is possible getting a blu ray reader/writer for my pc, if in fact i can usb it to my tv, which accomodates usb. any thoughts? again i appreciate the information, and guessing several others do to by the number of views in short time.
thanks

[LoRd_MuldeR]

If you buy a Blue-Ray drive for your PC, you could play Blue-Ray discs on your PC using a Software Player, such as WinDVD.
You could also plug your Screen to your PC, if that screen has got a VGA or DVI/HDMI input connector. The latter is much preferred.
USB would not be used. There is no reason to use it...

[mikeylikess99]

If you buy a Blue-Ray drive for your PC, you could play Blue-Ray discs on your PC using a Software Player, such as WinDVD.
You could also plug your Screen to your PC, if that screen has got a VGA or DVI/HDMI input connector. The latter is much preferred.
USB would not be used. There is no reason to use it...

hi lord, well my tv does have the hdmi in put, but my pc does not. is there a vga card that supports hdmi?, am i understand that is the direction your trying to send me with, provided i have a blu ray dvd rom/writer. thanks

[LoRd_MuldeR]

If your graphics card only has got an VGA output connector, then it can not connect to HDMI input, because VGA works analog but HDMI is digital.
However most graphics cards today have at least one digital DVI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface) output connector. And DVI can be connected to HDMI via adapter (http://www.eagle-cable-shop.de/images/categories/hdmi%20dvi%20adapter.jpg). That should not be a problem...

Also you must make sure that your graphics card supports HDCP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection), otherwise you won't get any video output from Blue-Ray on the DVI/HDMI connectors ;)

[mikeylikess99]

If your graphics card only has got an VGA output connector, then it can not connect to HDMI input, because VGA works analog but HDMI is digital.
However most graphics cards today have at least one digital DVI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface) output connector. And DVI can be connected to HDMI via adapter (http://www.eagle-cable-shop.de/images/categories/hdmi%20dvi%20adapter.jpg). That should not be a problem...

Also you must make sure that your graphics card supports HDCP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection), otherwise you won't get any video output from Blue-Ray on the DVI/HDMI connectors ;)


Hey Lord i have a dvi connection on my pc(currently the spot i use for my sony digital camera), that i could use for blu ray. only trouble than would be the audio portion,as im guessing the sound wouldnt becoming from my samsung speakers any more im guessing?...im actually notsure how id do the audio part....

[LoRd_MuldeR]

AFAIK it is possible to transmit the audio part over HDMI as well, but current graphic cards don't use this feature of HDMI (especially not, when using an DVI/HDMI adapter).

You can either let your sound card decode the multi-channel audio and feed it into your amplifier via an analog 5.1 connection (three TRS connectors) or you can use the digital S/PDIF port.
But I doubt that the new audio HD audio formats (e.g. E-AC3 or DTS-HD), which are used on Blue Ray discs, can be transferred via S/PDIF cable....