Nasty trap in PGCedit's Trace!

[meRobs]

I have begun using the Trace mode in PGCedit and have noticed what seems to be a bug??

When arriving at a video clip the Preview runs and displays 'Close and break trace'. Hitting this button may cause a problem if in the main movie as it jumps from chapter to chapter, maybe only a sec or so on each. Then, depending on when you click, the neighbouring check box 'Blank this cell' may be triggered as well! Bingo: one cell gone!

Obviously, I should use the main 'Break' button.
But it is easy to forget this, especially since the Preview window invites a click on its panel!

If this is a bug, I hope it is fixed.

Unless, of course, I have been doing something wrong, in which case: any comments?

NOTE (an edit): I just noticed that the above happens when the preview duration is set low, say 1 sec, but not at 5 sec.
Just as confusing, though: at 5 sec, hitting the 'Break' did not work, I had to go to the Preview and 'Close & Break' and do so before the 5 sec is up!!
Surely something is wrong here?

[meRobs]

One more thing: on using Trace to find what happens after a main movie is played, I have been:
1) clicking Break to stop play of the movie, before it completes, thinking that all the registers are now correct
2) click on the first Post-Cmd for that title and hit Run.

Will this correctly initiate the after-title behaviour of a player? In other words: is it OK to manually jump out of a title in this way and move to the post-comds?

I have never seen any Cell-Cmds but if they were present would this cause a problem?

Thanks

[blutach]

Why bother displaying it anyway? You don't have to have the preview on and it is hardly a bug if YOU click in the wrong box. Anyway, even if you do something wrong, just reload the DVD without having saved it first.

Regards

[meRobs]

Why bother displaying it anyway? You don't have to have the preview on and it is hardly a bug if YOU click in the wrong box. Anyway, even if you do something wrong, just reload the DVD without having saved it first.

Regards

1) I display the Preview to help recognise what cells are used, what button is highlighted, etc. I want to identify the cells that I should not blank and those I can -- sometimes there are multiple menu cells that look the same.
(2) I did not click the wrong box, but if preview play is too short an attempt to click on the correct box may trigger the other box because of their proximity, overlapping active zones or a system delay. The preview could close just as I click -- easy to do if the preview is closing frequently!
3) having to reload and re-do previous work is a pain.

I was hoping this could be rectified -- either prevent short times being set, give a warning or avoid an overlap in the active zones for 'Blank this cell' and 'Close & Break'.

In any case, I figure it was worth mentioning.
Even if a longer play-time is set, say 5 sec, a user may easily attempt a click on 'Close & Break' at the 'wrong' time!

Regards
Robin

[r0lZ]

Hum, I've verified the preview (in all sizes) and I cannot activate the Blank This Cell checkbox when I click on Close And Break. IMO, the widgets are not overlapping. (But I use the latest beta of the preview, much different than the last public version.)
Preventing short times is not an option, as I know that many users (including me) like the short delays. If you want to use the Blank This Cell option, just modify the delay to 5 secs or more.

Your method to see what happens at the end of a title is (almost) correct.
You have to take the cell commands (if any) into account. They may be used to modify a GPRM or to jump to another PGC.
Also, since you are completely skipping the last cells, the SPRM 7 (holding the chapter number) will not be correctly updated by PgcEdit. That could have some impact on the navigation later, although that SPRM is rarely used.
And if no post- or cell-command jumps somewhere, the NextPGCN link may be used to jump to another PGC of the same Title or menu domain. I'm not sure PgcEdit will execute it if you manually change the trace's playback location.
IMO, it is easier and safer to disable temporarily the preview and to trace through all chapters.
(BTW, when I wrote the trace, my intention was to disable entirely the other panels, to avoid the possibility to disturb the trace, but I've finally decided to leave them active, as they can be used by the experienced users to check interesting things, such as what happens when a part of the DVD is skipped, and to edit some commands on the fly, during the trace)

[meRobs]

Thanks for that.

Actually, I was using the shortest duration for the Trace-preview. It seems that < 1 sec gives an infinite time, so I had set on 1.1. But since the Preview closed after each cell for about 1 sec, I found when rushing that I could time my click badly and hit just after it closed??

Anyway I then changed to 10 sec and made sure I clicked the Close & Break button soon after a cell started -- no problems. I never use the Blank Cell button in a movie.

What is the quickest way of getting through a movie with many chapters? Do I just move the slider to 1.1 sec and turn off Setup > Preview options > Start preview auto or Open preview auto, Real time playback?

Is there a more efficient way of using Trace than:
1) setting preview to play, say 5-10 sec each cell, for all PGCs before the main movie and then
2) changing the Preview settings once I get to the movie, maybe changing all the first three settings (above), each requiring a use of the Setup button and
3) finally resetting all three ticks ready for the next trace??

Thanks
Robin

[r0lZ]

You can click on the checkbox to the left of the trace menu to turn off the playback. I put that checkbox there exactly to do what you want: skip the playback of numerous chapters easily.
Furthermore, in the next version, you will be able to select any chapter of the current title with two mouse clicks, to jump directly to that chapter, just like with a real player's chapter search function. (This will work only if no PUO prohibits the chapter search operation.) If you jump to the last chapter, the navigation will continue normally.

[meRobs]

Thanks for your quick responses.

I have just tried the check box to the 'Right' of the Trace menus, which when unchecked turns off 'Open preview auto ...'. It works well provided the preview duration is set low, say 0.4 sec. Great!

However, I am puzzled by the function of the play-slider. If set to say 0.4 sec with Preview closed, all cells (warnings, logos and movie chapters) are played for this time. On the other hand, with the preview turned on (check box ticked), play of each cell seems infinite, not 0.4 sec. Yet, if set for > 1 sec, each cell plays for this time and auto closes!

Therefore, it seems to me that the play duration is as set via the slider regardless of whether the preview is open or not, but with one exception. The exception is when set less than 1 sec and the preview is open.

If set < 1 sec with the preview set to open, each cell plays out and the preview remains open awaiting action by the user. If this is true, then once understood it is nifty since I get the best of both worlds. I can leave the duration set low, say 0.4 sec, and turn the preview on or off as required!

Can you give us a clue as to when the next version is released?

Regards

[r0lZ]

As less than 1 second is too short to see something interesting in the preview, it is not closed automatically when the slider is less than 1 sec. To simulate the playback of a real player as close as possible, you should set the slider to its minimum value: the commands are executed as fast as possible, and the video is played normally.

The new version of PgcEdit is on the way. It should be ready before the end of September.

[meRobs]

Thanks. That's what I had concluded after a few more fiddles - I am glad you confirm.

Now, I must make a confession.
I have now been using PGCedit with VobBlanker for some months and since I had initially found the Trace somewhat confusing, I simply blanked all unwanted menu and title PGCs and crossed my fingers. I reckoned if it worked OK in winDVD I would burn.

Then, recently, I came across DVD Remake Pro and was impressed with its user-friendly interface and before buying I set out comparing it with PGCedit, etc. This forced me to re-examine the Trace mode. Now I am more confident in using it and prefer it to DVD Remake, so I have opted to continue using and supporting PGCedit!!

I hesitated, though, on the one drawback with the PGCedit VobBlanker combo: their lack of audio in Preview. As a result, before trimming from the first and last cells of a title I need to save the project, play in winDVD to find where the quiet passages are, if any, and return. I may then need to repeat to adjust. A pity! I am thinking of another option where I could use BeLight to convert WAV to AC3, but ...

By the way, do you know whether there are any plans to add audio in VobBlanker or to Cut with audio in PGCedit?

Regards
And thanks again for all your efforts and your willingness to respond to newbies such as me!
Robin

[r0lZ]

Thanks for your support! :)

Thanks to Jeanl, the new preview is now able to play the AC3 and LPCM audio streams (but not MP3, DTS...) It is already integrated in PgcEdit. Unfortunately, currently, Jsoto doesn't work much on VobBlanker. He is aware of the new possibilities of the preview, and I hope he will find some time to integrate it in VB soon...

[meRobs]

That's great news.

I assume "the new preview ....play the AC3 ... already integrated into PGCedit" refers to the next version of PGCedit!?
Can only hope VobBlanker follows suit!
Regards

[r0lZ]

I assume "the new preview ....play the AC3 ... already integrated into PGCedit" refers to the next version of PGCedit!?Yes.
The new preview has several other improvements as well, and I still have to modify some things in PgcEdit. (BTW, if everything works as expected, the preview will NOT close itself anymore when a new cell must be shown in trace mode. This should solve the problem of the preview closing when you click on a button.)

[meRobs]

Goodie goodie!

[meRobs]

The new version of PgcEdit is on the way. It should be ready before the end of September.

I have just examined a DVD with 64 menu PGCs and in the current version I need to make 128 clicks to examine all 64, to check what is needed, etc, and even more to blank those I dont want.

So, is there any chance that your next version will let the user move down all menu PGCs, with the down arrow or a click, while Preview automatically displays each new cell?

Also, will it be possible to select all unwanted cells with Shift-click or Ctrl-click and blank them all in one go?

While I am here: how about replacing a cell, such as the last in the movie, like VobBlanker?

Just asking.
Thanks
Robin

[blutach]

You do know that to preview a cell you can use the keyboard shortcut ~ and Esc to close it?

Regards

[meRobs]

Yes Les, I use the ` key to open. That plus the click to select another cell amounts to the 128 clicks I referred to above for 64 menu cells.
It is certainly easier to view cells in PGCedit than in BobBlanker, but, I was merely hoping the next version would be even easier -- simply leave the Preview open and then use one click per cell to view it.
Maybe just wishful thinking.

Anyway thanks.
Robin

[blutach]

That's what will happen in the next version. You can preview another cell (e.g. from the PGCEditor) without closing.

Regards

[meRobs]

Great!

[r0lZ]

Don't forget the automatic preview option. Tick the checkbox in the upper-left corner of PgcEdit, and select any PGC in the left pane. (You cannot preview individual cells with this method.)

[meRobs]

Yep, I forgot.
Thanks