Matroska 2.0 support

[bond]

We would like to know that as well especially with the Matroska 2.0 work we are doing now to ensure it is backwards compatible with 1.0.arent you in close contact with divx behind the scenes???

[SeeMoreDigital]

We would like to know that as well especially with the Matroska 2.0 work we are doing now to ensure it is backwards compatible with 1.0.Hi BetaBoy,

Are you able to reveal what the fundamental differences between 1.0 and 2.0 are?

[BetaBoy]

Hi BetaBoy,

Are you able to reveal what the fundamental differences between 1.0 and 2.0 are?

With respect to the Rémoulade thread I'll keep it simple...

Matroska 2.0 its pretty much a rewrite as well as adopting some of the developer tools we have created here at CoreCodec for CorePlayer and our other projects: Core-C, CoreMAKE, CoreUI, CoreLua, CoreDoc. It was natural for us to adopt them because they align with our current/future Matroska enhancements.

On changes....

- Backwards compatible with 1.0 (hopefully this will not effect DivX's plans)
- Menu system
- Menu tools (like DMX)
- New Haali Splitter
- Clearer documentation
- The Matroska Foundation (think XMPP, Mozilla)
- Changing the 2.0 licensing (BSD Style) for more hardware adoption
- New Website
- Developer/Corporate Support

There is much more then that, but we will let everyone know how things are going when we get close to the launch.

[Comatose]

- Menu system
:eek: !!!
YES!

[BlackSharkfr]

:eek: !!!
YES!

I think i had already seen some infos about a possible matroska menu system, but since there were no tools to easily create them, no one implemented it.

[Disabled]

:eek: !!!
YES!

I am too pretty sure there is a menu system already included in the v1.0 specs and have already seen a menu in .mkv with VLC. There has been a dvd2mkv with menus project that was supposed to work, but there was no player capable of playing them so it was useless.
I would like to know how the 2.0 specs will be different in that aspect, but thats not the matter of this thread (and I wonder why BetaBoy didn't start a new thread for this, but I guess he doesn't want to discuss it further right now).

[BetaBoy]

As I had said with respect to the Rémoulade thread... I invite a Mod to split it off into a new Thread and I'll comment further at that point...

[BetaBoy]

Thx for the split.... bond can you change the title to "Matroska 2.0 Support" omiting CoreCodec. CC has helped to facilitate the forming of the Matroska Foundation and to date are the ones pushing for matroska adoption with vendors (DivX, SigmaDesigns, etc.). The Foundation has taken those reigns now and CoreCodec's role will be as solution provider (coding, support, etc.) for the foundation as well as one of its leading contributors.

[BetaBoy]

Cruncher... on your deleted post I caught.... there were basic menu demos about 2 years ago with CorePlayer Mobile we did based on the current menu specs in Matroska 1.0. But it was 'proof of concept' that 1.0 menus worked and it was just embedded links with Album art. The new menu system will obviously be much, much more.... but I suspect menus will be released in a gradual release phases, with each release adding more features to allow for media players to adapt to the changes.

[Comatose]

Hopefully, this time, more [software] players will support it. At least the major players that people usually recommend.

I always thought the one thing Matroska was missing was menus, and it could become a HD disk in a file :p
This, along with hardware support (I love you guys now), could be awesome.

>:3!

[Adub]

Wow I just saw this thread!! This is fantastic! I was kind of worried, as I haven't seen any serious development in the MKV area in a while, be it mkvmerge, haali's splitter, or whatever else.

So this is what everyone is doing! MKV 2.0!! Whoohooo!! Keep up the good work!

[Selur]

will the menu tool also be available under linux?

[Kurtnoise]

Why so many interest in menus systems/tools ? Could you remind me the price of 1Go nowadays ? DVDs cost has never been so low today. So, backup entire DVDs with all contents is really cheap imo...


I'd say that the more interesting in the future would be the devices...A great support for the more popular devices. :cool:

[bond]

Why so many interest in menus systems/tools ? Could you remind me the price of 1Go nowadays ? DVDs cost has never been so low today. So, backup entire DVDs with all contents is really cheap imo...exactly what i am thinking too. People always asked for menus. and as a response there have been solutions for avi (by divx), mkv and mp4 (even a nice gui tool being availabe: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=117574)

still, i have never seen any such file in the wild, so i dont think anyone is really using menus, except in dvd

what we are seeing here more seems to me like a "i want everything, although i will not use it"

[SeeMoreDigital]

When it comes to backing up my DVD's I must admit I'm not bothered about saving/generating menus either.

I'm only interested about retaining the main-movie. It's the same when backing-up HD-DVD and Blu-ray disc's too!

[GodofaGap]

Regarding menus.

A while ago I tranfered some old disney VHS tapes to DVD for my neighbor who didn't have a VHS player anymore, but got a 4 year old in return. I did three movies per DVD and there having a little menu to select the right movie was actually quite handy. Just put a picture of Mowgli or Simba there and the little one can point at what she wants to watch. :)

Menus is certainly a useful feature for non-computer use where navigation sometimes becomes a little more complicated. Those 'explorers' on DVD players today aren't everything.

[Soulhunter]

@BetaBoy

Whats about encryption + password protection? I think it was already in the old specs but never actually implemented... Any chance to see this feature in 2.0?


Thx n Bye

[BetaBoy]

There was Matroska DRM discussions for a few years ago but in the current anti-DRM environment, its hard to say. I'll ping the guys on it.

[Ajax_Undone]

All I care is that they make an encoder that can port DVD and BluRay Menus and all to the Matroska container...

Please don't cripple this great format its not worth your eternal soul...

[BetaBoy]

and Matroska menus will not be used? IE; http://www.tuaw.com/2008/09/01/apple-to-deliver-interactive-album/

Now integrate PictureFlow into Matroska 2.0 Menu's and you have a killer combo ;-)

[Soulhunter]

There was Matroska DRM discussions for a few years ago but in the current anti-DRM environment, its hard to say. I'll ping the guys on it.
Would be also interesting for personal use imo! Adult content on ya PC -vs- your kids, private content on your cellphone or laptop -vs- your class mates or working colleagues, etc... ;]


Bye

[Ajax_Undone]

and Matroska menus will not be used? IE; http://www.tuaw.com/2008/09/01/apple-to-deliver-interactive-album/

Now integrate PictureFlow into Matroska 2.0 Menu's and you have a killer combo ;-)

Wow thats interesting can't wait :)

[BlackSharkfr]

I have a small request for matroska 2.0.
That is more Stereoscopic-3D tags on video streams.

Matroska currently only supports dual-stream left and right (and what's center ?)
But since no Stereoscopic3D player can read dual-streams yet, nobody uses the feature. It's a bit of a chicken and egg issue.

I believe that if you also added single-stream tags for formats which stereo-3d videos currently use, like :
-side by side left/right and right/left
-over/under left/right and right/left
-interlaced 3D streams
Right now, users must specify to the player which configuration is used in the file, or use specific naming conventions to have it auto-detected. It's not friendly.

If matroska had these tags it could be useful and maybe act like a trojan horse for matroska file format in the Stereo-3D community.
Obviously you'd also need to contact 3d player authors to tell them about matroska and how to interact with the haali splitter, but reading an information for a format your player already needs should be much much easier to implement than writing the whole simultaneous dual stream support.

[chadamir]

I think people would use menus if they were from the original dvd and automated/easier to reproduce. As it stands theres no way to backup a dvd and retain the original menus but use say x264 afaik.

[Inventive Software]

I was looking at doing the same thing with MP4, but couldn't make it work effectively. There are also no good players around for it.

Looking at another thread, what about seamless branching? If a spec was defined for it, I'm sure that'd please a lot of people backing up DVDs/HD content. :)

[Disabled]

I'd like to be able to change the framerate of the video dependant on what audio stream I select - Ie have dual audio with 23.976 fps Film audio and 25fps PAL (I know the audio does not have a framerate, but its length is accordingly).

[Lele-brz]

Hi,
Is there an option to multiplex with Matroska 2.0 and place the Cue at the beginning of the file. This will make possible to HTTP stream a mkv video.
thanks

[Dreassica]

Something like attaching a substream to 1 audiostream so it doesnt play with the other in a dual language audio mkv would be a nice feature to add.

[m0rbidini]

what we are seeing here more seems to me like a "i want everything, although i will not use it"

Not really. I think it's more like:

"I want a "1-click-feature-complete-DVD-backup-in-one-file" taking about 1/3 the size of the DVD and that a dumbass like me can easily use and easily play almost everywhere."

When something like this exists you'll see many people using it. I'm fortunate enough to have many TBs of storage available but I'm eager for the moment to convert the hundreds of DVD images and save TBs of storage without noticeable loss of quality and features.

[littleD]

I'd like to be able to change the framerate of the video dependant on what audio stream I select - Ie have dual audio with 23.976 fps Film audio and 25fps PAL (I know the audio does not have a framerate, but its length is accordingly).

You can change fps of any track during muxing:)

[Disabled]

No, I want a dual audio file where one audio is in PAL length and the other is in Film length, thus the framerate has to be changed according to the audio stream I choose during playback.

[littleD]

Can u explain what advantage is to changing fps during playback rather than set proper fps during muxing? (Apart from giving additional tough work to splitter?)
Is saving original fps the issue? Isnt fps ratio restored from track after extracting from mkv btw?
Yeah my english is bad :)

[Disabled]

The thing is I have a Vid in 24fps Film with english audio and I'd like to mux my Pal audio together with the english one without resampling and transcoding any of them. Thus I have the problem that I want to have two different audios with two different lengths that should fit the same video.

[littleD]

I ve got your point already:) Anyway i still claim u can do what u want in mkvmerge by otion called "stretch by". The question is: is it harmless to audio (video, sub) to set 24fps, then mux? When extracted from mkv, the pal fps will be restored? If yes, u shouldn be aware of loosing quality as muxing is not transcoding, right?

[Disabled]

Ah ok, I know about the "stretch by" option, but it doesn't work as it should (at least the last time I tried). The Player would need to resample the audio during playback and that is not done.

[Egh]

Would be also interesting for personal use imo! Adult content on ya PC -vs- your kids, private content on your cellphone or laptop -vs- your class mates or working colleagues, etc... ;]


There are much more powerful and reliable tools to protect sensitive data. Primary purpose of DRM is to limit file distribution. Hardly possible when open source codecs are involved ;)

I would like to have a protection which would stop people from demuxing / ripping the tracks from MKV. But even that much is impossible to do with open source codecs (as anyone can fork them to turn this protection off).

[Thunderbolt8]

please dont forget to correct that red colour issue with the new version of the splitter, if that hasnt been done already (the picture of current haali renderer is too reddish).

[Sukrim]

http://forum.corecodec.com/viewtopic.php?t=741.0;wap2#p7902

Well the plan was to announce our plans for 2.0... atm we are still working on EBML 2.0 and just finished the data store for it. I would look for a statement late Q1 of 09.... but it will be for the Matroska Foundation first.
I looked, but no statement... any updates?

/me wants to rip DVDs with menus and stuff...! :)

[BetaBoy]

It is a work in progress.... the current high adoption rate in hardware is actually slowing devel for 2.0 and allowing us to think through things some more as we move towards 2.0.

[WestFlame]

So, anything new with Matroska 2.0? It's been a while since last update and still no news. :-(

[BetaBoy]

While we are active on working towards 2.0, we have changed any short term release so that it does not interfere with the massive 1.0 adoption that is going on now. What is more likely near term is refining the 1.x specs for:
- New codec formats
- Clarify profiles and certifications ( read: http://www.robotplanet.dk/video/matroska_certification_thoughts.php ).
- Submit the new RFC

[Sukrim]

A big thanks for the update!

The only point I'm missing: menu support?!
It's already in Matroska 1 somehow, if you want to certify something for Matroska, just force them to play menus as well!

[BetaBoy]

Menu's are proposed in the specs and in fact we had demos of menus about 4 years ago. That was a major reason why Steve created DMX (DVD Menu Extractor) to parse the schema elements to be read outside of DVD's (ie; to be later converted to Matroska Menu's).

[Sukrim]

I know that they are proposed... but that's already everything there is about menus unfortunately. :(

I hoped for an app that would take a DVD, squeeze it into a single container and then let me save space by encoding for example all videos via x264. It's nearly possible with Matroska, but menus are the biggest thing that's missing and I really hoped for Matroska 2.0 (or now, that it's getting delayed a definitive menu spec for 1.0 that also has to be implemented by someone who wants the certificate).

The biggest problem with your certification approach is that you only provide a container - it's like Winzip should be able to open/show any file that could be zipped.

Maybe create something like a "mkvHD"-Standard with one (or several) definitve codec(s) to be used for video, audio etc. as a subset to the whole "mkv" video file possibilities which can be easier certified/implemented?

[sl1pkn07]

matroska 2.0 is multiplataform?

[Sukrim]

Another year passed and still no news on Matroska (2.0) menus... *sigh*

sl1pkn07: It's a container/file format. Like a text file. The Specs are/will be open, so any media player software can implement it, regardless of the operating system.

[GuilhermeAraujo]

I don't know if it's possible, but some times, when I'm muxing a video + subtitles, I forget do set the subtitle delay, and I only notice this when playing it.
Could it be able to add this delay info to the header, just like we can edit streams' names without remuxing everything?