Lossless backup guide?

[ettin]

Is there a guide on doing a lossless backup of DVD's? ive searched and cant find anything. I ripped a dvd using dvd decrypter, of which the VOB's played fine, but when i tried to convert it to a lossless format (im guessing h264?) using handbrake, it gave me "no titles found" and its faq says that means my files are still encrypted. I dont really know what to do at this point, i just wanted to make a lossless backup of just the movie into a single playable file, no special stuff like subs/languages/features.

[Dark Shikari]

Is there a guide on doing a lossless backup of DVD's? ive searched and cant find anything. I ripped a dvd using dvd decrypter, of which the VOB's played fine, but when i tried to convert it to a lossless format (im guessing h264?) using handbrake, it gave me "no titles found" and its faq says that means my files are still encrypted. I dont really know what to do at this point, i just wanted to make a lossless backup of just the movie into a single playable file, no special stuff like subs/languages/features.Converting a lossy format to a lossless one will only make it larger (much, much, much larger). The easiest way to "losslessly" backup a DVD is to just not recompress it.

[Comatose]

Maybe he means transparent backup o_o

As for your problem I really don't know :X Ask in the Handbrake forums?

[lych_necross]

The only way I know of to make a lossless copy of a DVD is to clone it by making an image (preserving the original layer brake) and burning it. DVD -> h.264/xvid/divx is a lossy process. Also, DVD decrypter is no longer developed and cannot handle newer protection schemes. Use DVDFab or AnyDVD to rip instead.

If you want to make a lossless backup of a DVD, make an image of it using imgburn and mount it with daemon tools or VirtualCloneDrive.

[Comatose]

But he wants a single playable file. Depending on what he wants, he should join them and re-encode them or join them and throw it in a MKV or something.

[lych_necross]

@ettin
I re-read your question again. It sounds like your problem with handbrake is related to DVD Decrypter. Trying using DVDFab to re-rip the movie again and then use handbrake to compress it.

[ettin]

Ok, i meant lossless as in there is no quality loss from the VOB files into a single container format, and maybe if possible with some reduction in filesize.

I was looking at this http://compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/lossless_codecs_2007_en.html and it says that FFV1 codec is the best lossless compression format. Apparently its included in FFDshow, but im looking at it and i dont see how im supposed to encode my VOB's, or anything for that matter, through it. Is there a guide somewhere for this?

[Dark Shikari]

Ok, i meant lossless as in there is no quality loss from the VOB files into a single container format, and maybe if possible with some reduction in filesize.

I was looking at this http://compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/lossless_codecs_2007_en.html and it says that FFV1 codec is the best lossless compression format. Apparently its included in FFDshow, but im looking at it and i dont see how im supposed to encode my VOB's, or anything for that matter, through it. Is there a guide somewhere for this?As I said before, re-encoding from a lossy to lossless format will make the file much larger.

[ettin]

So VOB is pretty much the pinnacle of quality at this point? Are there any LOSSY codecs that wont form the ugly blocking typical with compressed video?

[Dark Shikari]

So VOB is pretty much the pinnacle of quality at this point? Are there any LOSSY codecs that wont form the ugly blocking typical with compressed video?The VOBs you have already compressed with MPEG-2, albeit at a high bitrate. "Ugly blocking" is a common feature of encodes at way too low a bitrate.

MPEG-2 isn't a very efficient format, so if you'll tolerate a small amount of quality loss, you can re-encode to (say) H.264 and save a lot of space.

[ettin]

well, lets see, went ahead and took your advice and encoded my VOB through super to mp4 using x264. After 4 hours of encoding, my 6gb 80 minute file is still being encoded, and its now at 7gb.

Wow, thats one hell of a compression scheme you got there.

Anyone know of a decent lossy codec that actually compresses? Or i would be happy to leave the VOB as is if i could just get it into a MKV container, but im only seeing a MKV to VOB program, theres nothing about converting VOB to MKV, and virtualdub doesnt accept VOB so thats out of the question.

[linyx]

Use PGC Demux to demux the video, audio, and subtitles; then use MKVToolnix to remux into an mkv. There will be no loss in quality. You can also use VirtualDub, but you will need avisynth and dgindex so its kinda tricky, and it wont be lossless.

[Dark Shikari]

well, lets see, went ahead and took your advice and encoded my VOB through super to mp4 using x264. After 4 hours of encoding, my 6gb 80 minute file is still being encoded, and its now at 7gb.

Wow, thats one hell of a compression scheme you got there.So you use some random GUI that isn't supported here, pick a really high bitrate, and wonder why the filesize gets larger? :rolleyes:

Filesize has nothing to do with the "compression scheme"--you pick the filesize by picking the associated bitrate.

[ettin]

So you use some random GUI that isn't supported here, pick a really high bitrate, and wonder why the filesize gets larger?

I picked a bitrate of 8000, which is probably far below that of the VOB, now why would a lower bitrate produce a larger file, especially given its a lossy compression? Even so, it wasnt even halfway done after 4 hours. Just for kicks i picked a bitrate of 64, and it still went as slow. I could encode the same movie (from any format) into mpeg2 using CCE in 20 minutes. Hell, maybe i accidently ticked the "work really ineffeciently" option somewhere, but ive read the x264 guides on here and i dont see why it performed the way it did.

Anyways, every guide ive ever read on bitrate vs quality states that 8000 is pretty much the DVD quality standard before it starts to take a dive, so if your telling me that a bitrate of 8000 is going to produce a larger file than the source, then i guess technology still has a long way to go before i can turn this VOB into something nice yet manageable.

Still, i find it hard to believe that no one has developed a quality lossy codec yet, especially considering the amount of 720p mkv rips floating about the net nowadays.

[Dark Shikari]

I picked a bitrate of 8000, which is probably far below that of the VOBNo it isn't, DVDs have a max bitrate of 9 megabits (roughly), and generally use about 6-7.now why would a lower bitrate produce a larger file, especially given its a lossy compression? Even so, it wasnt even halfway done after 4 hours. Just for kicks i picked a bitrate of 64, and it still went as slow. I could encode the same movie (from any format) into mpeg2 using CCE in 20 minutes. Hell, maybe i accidently ticked the "work really ineffeciently" option somewhere, but ive read the x264 guides on here and i dont see why it performed the way it did. You're using a GUI that isn't supported on this board, and complaining about it to us. Why? Complain to the people who made it, not those of us who actually develop the encoders you're using improperly.Still, i find it hard to believe that no one has developed a quality lossy codec yet, especially considering the amount of 720p mkv rips floating about the net nowadays.All those 720p rips use x264, without exception. x264 is the quality lossy codec.

Your attitude is not going to get you anywhere on this forum except perhaps struck. Drop it if you want people to help you. There are loads of guides on this site about how to do what you're looking to do; don't ignore them.

We do want to help--the worst thing you can do for yourself is reject the assistance you're offered ;)

[ettin]

I see you defended its quality vehemently, so ill take your word for it, but i notice you didnt correct my ascertains about its speed. Is that to mean im correct? It takes 8 hours to encode a one hour movie, where CCE could do the same in 20 minutes (granted their encoding to two different formats)? Is that an issue with your encoder, or with H264 in general?

I apologize for what came off as an attitude, its just frustrating to spend hours waiting on something just to have it fail and all you get is an "you should have known that already" attitude from others who are supposed to be helping. This is a newbie forum after all, if your going to help people, you have to assume they know nothing.

[Dark Shikari]

I see you defended its quality vehemently, so ill take your word for it, but i notice you didnt correct my ascertains about its speed. Is that to mean im correct? It takes 8 hours to encode a one hour movie, where CCE could do the same in 20 minutes (granted their encoding to two different formats)? Is that an issue with your encoder, or with H264 in general?x264 is extremely scalable in this regard. Its fastest speed settings can get roughly 150fps encoding on a DVD on a single Core 2 3.2Ghz core (multiply times number of threads... you get the idea!). Its slowest settings might be under 5fps per core on the same system!

Obviously, there's a balance to be struck in the middle. Try out Ripbot264, AutoMKV, or MeGUI. They all have options for profiles with reasonable speeds.

[lych_necross]

This might be a shot in the dark, but why don't you try the demo version of CloneDVDmobile (http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=19154). The latest beta uses ffmpeg and compresses to x264/divx/xvid... and supports the MP4 and AVI containers.

[ettin]

Hm. i might have to. I downloaded AutoMKV, made sure i had all the dependencies, loaded up my VOB (I joined them into one using VOBmerge, which plays fine), set it up according to THE NEWBIE GUIDE http://www.kayakingcoach.com/GUIDE.htm, but with the container as MKV (x264) and the audio as AC3, and set it to encode.

That DOOM9 approved enough? Well, lets see, according to the "convert file" box, ETA is 38 hours, at a speed of .05x realtime. My specs are 3ghz P4, 3gb ram, x1900 radeon, XP pro. Not top of the line but not exactly an apple II either.

Hm, no, 38 hours would be a good thing, that would actually insinuate that somewhere in time this operation would be complete, but i do believe its just stopped working altogether.

now what :/

[smok3]

test the procedure with very short input files, 1 minute should be plenty, when you get your xyz method perfected, go with The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, which is 2:51 i belive :)

[ettin]

Well, if i had my movie in a format that could be edited then i wouldnt be here asking how to convert this worthless VOB into something useful.

[Dark Shikari]

Well, if i had my movie in a format that could be edited then i wouldnt be here asking how to convert this worthless VOB into something useful.There are some rather easy-to-use VOB splitting apps around, try the search feature (I can't name any off the top of my head though).

[smok3]

ettin; so i'll understand that as if you can't obtain another, shorter test 'vob', but you would rather spend 40 hours on another useless try with some fishy software? as you please...

some test materia http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/downloads/trailers.html#vob

[ettin]

fishy software? that x264 dev reccommended it, what the hell am i supposed to use then?

Well, i found the vob's i had before i joined them (the original ones off the DVD) and ran one of them through. Didnt work.

[CWR03]

Your original request was for a method to save your VOB in a lossless format, hopefully to reduce the filesize somewhat. Most DVD rips have multiple audio streams, and unneeded ones can be eliminated. You could simply demux the video and audio streams, choose only the audio you need (Stereo is smaller than 5.1, and you can even downmix 5.1 to stereo) and remux them into a normal .mpg with no loss of quality whatsoever.

fishy software? that x264 dev reccommended it, what the hell am i supposed to use then?
As suggested once in this thread already, your attitude toward those who are trying to help is quite poor.

[Dark Shikari]

fishy software? that x264 dev reccommended it, what the hell am i supposed to use then?I gave it as an example. There's loads and loads of such apps; which one you like is a matter of both skill level and personal preference.

[Sharktooth]

ettin, no one is going to do your dirty job for you and for free. you have to spend time reading and learning... if you dont want to do it, as i already told you in another thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1179167#post1179167), this is not the right place for you...

[smok3]

ettin...., i have canceled commercial projects where 'chief money guy' was less annoying than you...

[Blue_MiSfit]

Okay...

You're using settings that are much too intense for your tired old P4.

Quality, high compression, and speed do not work together. Pick two :)

Now, you didn't seem hugely concerned with file size - so why don't you just remux your DVD to an MKV file? It's quite simple, and will only take a few minutes.

My rule of thumb is that you can quite easily get a DVD down to less than half its file size (most of the time) in just a couple hours. Of course, I have a quad-core processor.

What settings are you using in AutoMKV? My guess is that you're using 2 pass, which is probably unnecessary for you. CRF would be the way to go :)

~Misfit

[Esurnir]

If you want to losslessly backup and play your main movie from the vob "easely"

My advice will be fairly simple :

open your main movie decrypted vob with dgindex, demux your audiotracks and video using it (audio -> demux all tracks) and "save project and demux video".

Now to get the subtitle get subrip and extract the subtitles / closed caption from the vobs

Now that you got all this, get mkvtoolnix and mux your m2v file, your ac3/dts files (don't forget to choose your "by default" soundtrack, and give them the right language / title, to play them use a software like VLC) , your idx files (and srt if you got the closed captions).

And there you go, no loss, no bigger files, same as the DVD you had and it's actually -playable- without any problem ! And since mkv is more efficient than program stream in hard drive space you may save some spaces.

It's simply impossible to make a -lossless- backup without inflating the files, the quality loss between a dvd and a 2 cd x264 backup is nearly impossible to see unless your being very picky, but if you want something fast, just don't bother recoding, store the mpeg-2 stream and the original audio and subtitle in a mkv.

[lych_necross]

Okay, one more time. Simple lossless backup solution: Rip the DVD to an image file and play it from there.

[setarip_old]

@ettin

Hi!

Click on the following link for what I believe is a reasonable solution to your problem:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1169420#post1169420

Make sure to read the 3 or 4 posts that follow immediately...