Help with RAM for GigaByte mobo, please!

[dOdGE dIZ]

Hi there.

I'm building a new PC and arrived at the final "Release Candidate" setup. Well... more or less...

It will be used as a HTPC (of sorts), with two hybrid TV-cards, DVB-S card and dependable DVD drive, play the odd game, but, above all, edit/encode video. Be it xvid/divx (which I have been using for years) or x264 (which I have yet to try. my "old" system can't cope with it, plain and simple), I('ll) encode a lot. Some DVD ripping/archiving, mostly TV shows.

The components are tried and tested, and, I believe, popular among other video-encoding enthusiasts:


Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3;
Intel Q6600(G0) + 9cm/4-heatpipe Xigmatek cooler;
Club3D HD3850/512MB (at €67, it's the cheapest I can find);
Corsair HX520W
CoolerMaster Centurion 590.

Plus two or three SATA2 disks, the above mentioned DVD-RW drive, two TerraTec Cinergy HT PCI and, finally, the Technisat SS HD2. Add some six 12cm PWM fans and it'll be a tight package.

What's left-out is, of course, the RAM kit.

I narrowed my choice to three PC2-6400/CAS5 2x2048MB kits, as I intend to run a 64-bit OS (XP/Vista or Linux) and OC the Q6600's FSB to 400MHz (and, luck permitting, get rock-solid @3.6GHz) with a 1:1 ratio:


GeIL Value (5-5-5-15@1.8v±0.1v) (http://www.geil.com.tw/products/showSpec/id/52) - €61.90;
Mushkin Value (5-5-5-18@1.8v) (http://www.mushkin.com/doc/products/memory_detail.asp?id=564) - €62.60;
Patriot EP Enhanced Latency (5-5-5-12@1.9~2.0v) (http://www.patriotmem.com/products/detailp.jsp?prodline=5&catid=2&prodgroupid=38&id=593&type=1) - €64.15.

Now, I don't care about "which performs best": at the stated 800MHz, they will be within 10 seconds of each other after 8 hours encoding (if that), and I'm pretty sure all would run 4-4-4-12 (stable) timings with some slight voltage tweaking.

My question is: which brand would give less compatibility headaches regarding the GigaByte mobo? Has anyone tried something similar to this setup, with any of this mems?

Because this will be bought online, internationally, I rather have the whole kit right the first time. Even if the webstore has a 28-day return policy, the €30 shipping fees aren't that attractive.

Thank you for your input.

[RunningSkittle]

Ive had good luck with geil on that board before.

I also know these have no problems running with stock voltages and work very well that that board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211188&Tpk=ddr2%2b800

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I am running four modules of GeIL Ultra DIMM 2 GB DDR2-800 (http://www.alternate.de/html/product/details.html?articleId=138986&showTechData=true) on my GA-P35-DS3R (http://www.gigabyte.us/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ClassValue=Motherboard&ProductID=2515&ProductName=GA-P35-DS3R) board with Q6600 processor. They are running rock stable at 4-4-4-12 timings and 2,1 volts.

And they are very cheap now. I payed 125€ for my first pair. Now you get the pair for 33€ :rolleyes:

[burfadel]

The motherboard and cpu are both outdated, although if you can get them cheap...

The ep35 gigabytes are based on the p35 chipset, which is now replaced with the p45. Upgrading from p35 to p45 for current owners doesn't give too many advantages, althought the system can be a little smoother at times due to the new AHCI controller and memory controller among other things. Possibly better overclocking. The Q6600 G0 can be a good choice if it comes cheap, otherwise its replacement the q9300 should be looked at... or even the q9400 which I've seen for only AUS$10 more!

Now a 400fsb for the Q6600, which runs on a 266mhz fsb bus as standard can be a push, you probably won't get there! Some have in the past but it can be touch and go, and since you would have to ramp up the voltage the life expectancy can drop dramatically. The q9300 and q9400 both run on a 333mhz fsb, it would be a lot easier and a lot safer then to push past 400, especially on a p45 motherboard. The p45 chipset is a die shrink also, and runs cooler than the p35. overclocking the fsb to 400mhz, in addition to raising the chipset voltage could cause your chipset to overheat! The CPU temperature is not the only thing to take in to consideration when overclocking.

Just because your computer can go to 416fsb, doesn't mean you should leave it there! Just the same analogy as driving at 150mph because thats how fast your car can go, but it certainly won't do it any good!

A good termal paste is also a must! Artic silver is kind of outdated now, I wouldn't use it. There are better, cheaper paste that is also no electrically conductive that is available. If you are too generous with the paste or get it on the motherboard the new pastes it doesn't really matter (although too much paste can reduce cooling efficiency), but with artic silver and other silver based pastes if that gets on your mb or under the cpu etc etc, you can kiss goodbye to your setup!

I use OCZ freeze myself, which is more efficient that artic silver, although there are even better ones around!

[RunningSkittle]

<--running 400*8 with a Q6600 G0 with no voltage increase.

Dont spread FUD please, Q6600 G0 can get easily 3.2ghz, most can get to 3.6+

[LoRd_MuldeR]

That PC is almost one year old, of course it's not the newest components :p

However I just read a detailed test of the P45 chipset in c't magazine and it turned out P45 has no real benefit over P35, but is no worse either.
Also most P45 boards require DDR3-RAM, which is more expensive than DDR2, but currently the speed improvement of DDR3 over DDR2 is negligible.
Therefore I would carefully decide whether I want to spend more money for a P45 board right now.

If you don't need to buy now, waiting for the next generation (Nehalem), which will be real step forward, might be the better choice ...

[dOdGE dIZ]

Thanks for the replies.

It seems GeIL RAM has a good reputation for compatibility and stability around here.

@RunningSkittle:
Actually the A-Data Vitesta were my first choice but the webstore stopped selling it. And I'm in Europe, so no NewEgg wide variety, cheap prices and shipping costs, and certainly NO rebates.

@burfadel:
"The motherboard and cpu are both outdated,..."

Isn't that true for every single piece of hardware the week after they're launched? LOL

Yeah, you're right on (almost) all the points you raised. I just think the iP45 isn't enough of an evolution on the iP35, which, by now, is as mature and solid as it'll ever be. The main selling points of the iP45 over the iP35 are non-starters for me: a) better CrossFire support (two PCI-e 2.0 x8), and b) higher power-management efficiency. I won't use CF, ever, and an OCed system won't be able take advantage of the energy-saving features anyway.

And, like you rightly said, it's the Q6600 FSB that might limit the OC. So, the iP45 RAM OCing capabilities are a mute point since I'll be running it at stock speed.

Regarding the 45nm Q9300, right now it isn't worth the asked price: a €50+ premium on the Q6600, and €60+ on the E8400 (the entry level 45nm C2Duo). Over the Q6600 it has the better power efficiency (and then some...), improved architecture and SSE4.1 set of instructions (useless for the near future). But they do run neck-and-neck in most encoding applications, either stock or OCed (until SS4.1 kicks in, I'd guess).

Put against the E8400 it wins on all video encoding tasks, especially ones optimized for multi-core (which, I guess, x264 is an example) where quads rule. But the E8400 OCs extremely well, runs cooler, is less power-hungry still (even OCed) and is around 40% cheaper. It is on mean, lean, SOB.

It's a trade-off, like most things.

Anyways... My main concern now is picking a reliable RAM kit that the DS3 likes.

What about OCZ Platinum?

(because I didn't write this in one go by the time I'm posting LoRd_MuldeR already made part of my argument for me)

[Blue_MiSfit]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with the p35 chipset.

It's extremely mature, and the p45 offers very little in terms of tangible benefits. Also, DDR3 is fail still, and will continue to be so for awhile - until prices reach near parity with DDR2.

If you need an enthusiast system, without FB-DIMM memory, multiple CPU sockets, or SLI capability, the P35 is your best bet, in my opinion. Gigabyte boards seem to be the darlings of the enthusiast community. I had (until a few months ago) a P35-DS4, which was wonderful - except one of its capacitors exploded and I had to get a new board :) But - I don't blame manufacturers. I have pretty rotten luck with motherboards - I've probably lost one a year for the past 5-6 years..

~MiSfit

[burfadel]

Not all p45 boads require ddr3 ram, I'm using an Asus P5Q right now, and it only has DDR2! The P5Q Pro is also DDR2 only, and the P5QC has both DDR2 and DDR3 slots... I'm sure Gigabyte have the same on their boards available. The p45 is an updated p35, its not an entirely new chip! I agree for current owners is not worth changing over, but for buying a new board it may be an advantage to :)

In terms of overclocking, I was just pointing out nothing is guaranteed, and 8x400 should not be guaranteed for the q6600, just that its possible for it to go at that speed or even much higher. The q9400 may not overclock quite as high, but it is faster for the same clock speed which makes up for the slightly reduced overclocking potential... And since its fsb is closer to your intended overclock you are no stressing it as much either...

My main point is it comes down to benefit vs cost, and that when overclocking NOTHING can be guaranteed!

And at Blue_misfit, one a year! Overclocking by any chance :) lol, sounds like a heat issue?

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Yes, there are some P45 boards that still support DDR2, but there are only very few that support both, DDR2 and DDR3.
Also from what I read, the new "advanced" Voltage Regulator Modules on P45 boards are (more or less) useless marketing gimmicks.
After all the P45 boards clearly consume more power than P35 boards...

[burfadel]

Yeah, the power things on the Gigabyte and Asus motherboards (as well as others) are next to useless, and don't operate when you overclock. I personally use Rmclock, which you have to know how to set up, which works really well and actually better than the gimmicky motherboard things! to get signed driver for 64 bit, if you read through the forum on its homepage you can find a link to a motherboard company (epox or something) that uses the 64 bit signed RMclock driver for their power management! you can just copy that over the one bundled with rmclock and you don't have to worry about driver signing :)

Looking at prices the q6600 would be the better choice only because it costs much less! (prices have come down quite a bit for the q6600). I was expecting prices for the q9300 to come down purely because the q9400 has come out, but it hasn't worked out that way!

I suggested the p45 over the p35 mainly because it is an updated p35 chip, including a die shrink for cooler operation and apparently it does tweak a few things over the p35. I think the p45 is a little smoother, I only changed over because it didn't cost me anything to go from the P5k Pro to the P5Q, due to clever buying and selling :)

Again its a price thing, if you can get the p35 motherboard for much less than the p45 then it would be a good buy :)!

[RunningSkittle]

P45 does have more USB ports :)

[LoRd_MuldeR]

P45 does have more USB ports :)

My P35 board has 4 USB-Pots on the back (ATX panel) and at least two "internal" ones to connect the front USB-Ports.
That's by far more ports than I can use. And even if I needed more USB Ports, I could still get a hub for a few bucks.

If there are any arguments for P45, then these do not include the additional USB ports ;)

[burfadel]

Same or very close price, better buy! Thats probably the best argument. Overclocking can be more successful, depending on the power plugged in to the motherboard. The P5Q has the 24 pin connector, the additional 4 pin connector, which is pretty standard I know, but it also has a second connector right next to the first with a plug in the top, but it is actually connected to the motherboard! The plug easily comes out. I suspect its there because not all PSU's have the 2 extra 4 pin atx connectors. Luckily mine did :) Thats more a motherboard feature, but still. The Gigabyte board suggested above is pretty old, so you'd want to get a good deal on it.

It has been directly replaced with the following DDR2 board, the GA-EP45-DS3:
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2843

Since they haven't made the p35 chipset for a few months, the GA-EP35-DS3 could have been sitting on the shelf for several months, if not longer...!

[RunningSkittle]

EP45-DS3L has 8USB ports on the back panel with headers for 4 more ports!

[LoRd_MuldeR]

EP45-DS3L has 8USB ports on the back panel with headers for 4 more ports!

And what are the 12 USB devices you'll attach to all these ports? :p

[burfadel]

That aside, although I didn't explain it too well at all, I hope people can see the logic behind the p45 vs p35 taking in to account cost etc! I agree with the q6600 only beacause they are so cheap now! :)

[dOdGE dIZ]

Don't mean to sound like a prick, I really don't, but my question is DDR2 RAM compatibility with THAT (GA-EP35-DS3) mobo, not the choice of the mobo itself.

That's been settled after months of search and comparisons and reviews and forum-scouring and... You get my drift. I know ALL there is to know about iP35 vs. iP45 and all mid-range contenders: besides the DS3 I considered the ASUS P5QL-E (iP43) and MSI P45 Neo3-FR (iP45, and yes, both DDR2) and the abit IP35-Pro.

Even if the IP35-Pro is, unquestionably, the "top" board, with abit about to go belly-up, I chose the steer-away from potential warranty/RMA/support (or "lack thereof") trouble. Plus the 3 PCI slots (which I absolutely need) share the bus with two Gigabit LAN controlers plus TI FireWire400 controller. That's asking for stuttering video, dropped frames, out-of-synch A/V, latency issues, you name it.

The MSI offers 5 PCI (great!) and a good chipset/PWM cooler system but little else. The ASUS has awesome connectivity, both inside and outside, has a very nice layout (except the stupid, stupid, stupid, ATX connector smack in the middle of the board!!!), with the 3 obligatory PCI slots, tucked away from the PCI-e16x so there's not GPU cooling problems. But, from what I read, the iP43 isn't as good OCer as the iP45, and BOTH are less energy-efficient than the iP35 (all overclocked). Plus there's that mind-numbingly STUPID ATX-connector that would mess all my cable routing.

So there you have it. It's the DS3 for €78. Or the DS3R (€90), as I'm considering running a pair of 320GB Samsung SpinPoint F1 HDDs in RAID0. I'm reading they run circles around Raptors (except, of course, seeking), for a fraction of the price (and noise...).

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Don't mean to sound like a prick, I really don't, but my question is DDR2 RAM compatibility with THAT (GA-EP35-DS3) mobo, not the choice of the mobo itself.

Then your question has been answered here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1169505&postcount=3

[jonathonsunshine]

Gigabyte list there recommendations for compatible ram HERE
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/MemorySupport/motherboard_memory_ga-ep35-ds3_2.1.pdf

[RunningSkittle]

Note: those lists are not complete

[dOdGE dIZ]

Note: those lists are not complete

Precisely. For instance, it doesn't mention Mushkin or Patriot, two well established, quality RAM brands.

I rather have user testimony, with "real-world" setups. And, because Doom9 forum users builds are as close to my world as can be, I'm very interested in what they have to say.

LoRd_MuldeR, among others, report good results with GeIL RAM. Unfortunately the "Ultra" series are unavailable in 2x2GB kits, and I don't want to populate all memory banks with a 4x1GB set, even if I could (clearance issues with the HSF).