Purevideo confusion

[Pulstar]

Hello, Nvidia's Purevideo (standalone) decoder has been great since it uses little CPU, but Nvidia hasn't released anything after the retail 04.02-223 build. Do I need a new GPU? I don't care about AVC since ffdshow handles that fine considering my old cpu, but has the decoder been updated for older GPU users? I've used many Forceware updates and none of them include PV. Is there a way to make a newer Purevideo work with older (pre-7xxx) cards? It would be great to have more options like sharpening.

[Kado]

Well you must be really confused.
You have Purevideo that is a software mpeg2 video decoder that supports hardware acceleration and purevideo/purevideo hd (rev 2 and rev3) that is hardware logic inside the gpu's to make them decode various video formats like mpeg2, wmv9/vc-1, h264 etc along with some post processing all in hardware. depending on the purevideo revision you may have some post processing or bitstream video decoding. so the purevideo does not depend on the drivers but on the gpu.

[roozhou]

Actually PureVideo MPEG2 decoder runs well on ATI cards. But only on 6xxx+ nvidia card you can benefit from real-time IVTC and spatial-temporal deinterlacing.

[Pulstar]

So in short Nvidia is unlikely to update its standalone PV MPEG2 software (DXVA) decoder, and for one to take advantage of GPU Purevideo he has to seek a codec that supports hardware Purevideo (Not to mention a Geforce 7/8/9+ card). I'll have to try Cyberlink and Intervideo's decoders and compare them to PV to determine if either is worth upgrading to. Thanks!

[audyovydeo]

So in short Nvidia is unlikely to update its standalone PV MPEG2 software (DXVA) decoder, and for one to take advantage of GPU Purevideo he has to seek a codec that supports hardware Purevideo (Not to mention a Geforce 7/8/9+ card). I'll have to try Cyberlink and Intervideo's decoders and compare them to PV to determine if either is worth upgrading to. Thanks!

If MPEG2 is all you are going to decode, don't bother buying any more software : use Windoze Media Player 11 (to name but one) and you'll get MPEG2 hardware acceleration.

The picture is slightly more complex for AVC, since Nvidia's cards support 2 different hardware acceleration modes, in 6- 7-series , and 8- 9-series.
As has been pointed out by our peers above, Nvidia's Purevideo decoder is MPEG2-only, will do absolutely nothing with H.264 streams (won't even read mp4 files). But all this is in vain as you said that :


I don't care about AVC

right ?

cheers
audyovydeo

[Pulstar]

But what is the decoder bundled with WMP11? Does it offer any advantages over PV? And I hope you don't mind me asking about the terrestrial TV logo in your avatar. What do they call it and is it still used? :)

[audyovydeo]

But what is the decoder bundled with WMP11? Does it offer any advantages over PV?

As far as I can tell Windows Media uses the filters/codecs provided by DirectX. The PureVideo "player" actually needed Windows Media, it merely added access to some functions, it was a bogus thing. Nvidia did itself a disservice with the way they managed the entire purevideo branding blah blah.

Best read up here for disambiguation :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NVIDIA_PureVideo


And I hope you don't mind me asking about the terrestrial TV logo in your avatar. What do they call it and is it still used? :)

It's the well-known, but ever-rarer, Philips PM5544 Test Card.
Design your own with this excellent little utility :

http://www.oodletuz.fsnet.co.uk/soft/tcmaker.htm


and if you're nostalgic, you can browse his impressive collection of test cards from around the world.

cheers
audyovydeo

[Ascii2]

Hello, Nvidia's Purevideo (standalone) decoder has been great since it uses little CPU, but Nvidia hasn't released anything after the retail 04.02-223 build.The version number should be 1.02-223.

[Pulstar]

Thanks for the replies guys. Anyway I decided to change Purevideo since its smart deinterlacing doesn't handle DVB streams too well. Is there a smart deinterlacer to use in conjunction with ffdshow? DScaler 5 perhaps?

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Thanks for the replies guys. Anyway I decided to change Purevideo since its smart deinterlacing doesn't handle DVB streams too well. Is there a smart deinterlacer to use in conjunction with ffdshow? DScaler 5 perhaps?

What about ffdshow's internal Deinterlace filters? (e.g. KenerlBob)

Also ffdshow has an "Avisynth" option, which allows you to load any Avisynth filer you like, including carious Deinterlacers (e.g. Yadif, TDeint, etc).

[Pulstar]

Any tutorials for using avisynth for that purpose I've never dabbled in it?

[Leak]

What about ffdshow's internal Deinterlace filters? (e.g. KenerlBob)
FWIW - Haruhiko has added YADIF into the mess in his MT branch... :)

np: Autechre - V-Proc (Draft 7.30)

[LoRd_MuldeR]

FWIW - Haruhiko has added YADIF into the mess in his MT branch... :)

np: Autechre - V-Proc (Draft 7.30)

You mean Yadif will become an "internal" ffdshow deinterlacer? If so, I welcome that :cool:

TDeint (including "double framerate" mode) might also be worth adding...

[Leak]

You mean Yadif will become an "internal" ffdshow deinterlacer? If so, I welcome that :cool:
Revision 2246 is (literally) where it's at... (http://ffdshow-tryout.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ffdshow-tryout/branches/ffmpeg-mt/?view=log) :p

np: Luomo - Love You All (Convivial)

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Revision 2246 is (literally) where it's at... (http://ffdshow-tryout.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ffdshow-tryout/branches/ffmpeg-mt/?view=log) :p

np: Luomo - Love You All (Convivial)

Any builds from that branch yet?

[Delerue]

Any builds from that branch yet?

Try here (http://www.xvidvideo.ru/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,566/). As far as I tested, the 'double framerate' doesn't work well (messed with flicker and stuff like that).

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Try here (http://www.xvidvideo.ru/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,566/). As far as I tested, the 'double framerate' doesn't work well (messed with flicker and stuff like that).

Works good for me. Just like Yadif in Avisynth :cool:

Good that I don't need to go the way over Avisynth anymore. But when will this be available in "regular" builds? :confused:

BTW: If you get jerky motion with "Double Framerate", make sure the "Field Order" is good ;)


[EDIT]

A strange observation I made is this:

When I enable the "internal" Yadif deinterlace filter, then the Noise filter ("Old noise algorithm") freezes and stops changing the noise pattern.
Also if I switch to the "New noise algorithm" then the noise pattern is working okay again, but the video runs very slow.

The latter seems to be a CPU load problem is not that unusual. But the former feels like a bug. It doesn't happen with Avisynth Yadif.

[Delerue]

Hmmmm... I figured out what's causing the flicker: the 'resize' option. If you use it, it'll mess everything if YADIF has 'double framerate' set. Can you confirm?

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Hmmmm... I figured out what's causing the flicker: the 'resize' option. If you use it, it'll mess everything if YADIF has 'double framerate' set. Can you confirm?

Yes, resize after Yadif produces crap. Resize before Yadif doesn't, but is nonesense if you want to deinterlace :p

[Delerue]

When I enable the "internal" Yadif deinterlace filter, then the Noise filter...

Since you spoke about denoise, what you think about Nvidia denoise driver option? I'm asking because I think its OK and has CPU cost zero (plus it work with all videos and players, with or without FFDShow or AviSynth). But I never saw a SS comparison.

Yes, resize after Yadif produces crap. Resize before Yadif doesn't, but is nonesense if you want to deinterlace :p

That's it. :)

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Since you spoke about denoise, what you think about Nvidia denoise driver option? I'm asking because I think its OK and has CPU cost zero (plus it work with all videos and players, with or without FFDShow or AviSynth). But I never saw a SS comparison.

1. I'm on ATI hardware

2. I don't want to denoise, I want to add some noise to the deinterlaced video

3. Usually the noise pattern changes with each frame. But when "built-in" Yadif (not Avisynth Yadif) is checked, the noise is simply frozen

[Delerue]

1- OK. So, what you think about Ati denoise? :)
2- Hmm... Why you want to add noise?

[LoRd_MuldeR]

1- OK. So, what you think about Ati denoise? :)

Nothing, I still don't want to denoise.


2- Hmm... Why you want to add noise?

Adding some noise to deinterlaced video (and broadcasted MPEG-2 in general) makes it look more "natural" and hides some of the artifacts...

[haruhiko_yamagata]

I can reproduce that resize after yadif produces crap (fixed).
I cannot reproduce the issue with noise filter.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I can reproduce that resize after yadif produces crap (fixed).

:thanks:

I cannot reproduce the issue with noise filter.

Put the "Noise" filter behind "Deinterlace" and use the Yadif deinterlacer in "Double Framerate" mode.
Then choose the "Old noise algorithm" and raise "Luma noise strength" to a very high value, so you clearly see the noise pattern.
You'll see that the noise pattern will "freeze" with Yadif + "Double Framerate" ....

[haruhiko_yamagata]

Put the "Noise" filter behind "Deinterlace" and use the Yadif deinterlacer in "Double Framerate" mode.
Then choose the "Old noise algorithm" and raise "Luma noise strength" to a very high value, so you clearly see the noise pattern.
You'll see that the noise pattern will "freeze" with Yadif + "Double Framerate" ....I still can't reproduce. The noise pattern is random.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I still can't reproduce. The noise pattern is random.

Yes, but it doesn't change with every frame. Instead only every ~10 seconds. No idea what else it needs to reproduce this...

[LoRd_MuldeR]

haruhiko, I can confirm that the "Noise Bug" with Yadif is fixed with ffdshow-MT r2279. Same for the "Resize Bug" :)

Good work :thanks:

[Delerue]

haruhiko, I can confirm that the "Noise Bug" with Yadif is fixed with ffdshow-MT r2279. Same for the "Resize Bug" :)

Good work :thanks:

Same here. Great! :)

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Same here. Great! :)

Unfortunately I'm experiencing a new problem with ffdshow-MT r2279 :(

When I move the DVBViewer window from one screen to another one, the image remains black. This is using the Video Mixing Renderer.
I have to switch to another channel and back to the current one to get some picture again. Doesn't happen when Yadif is disabled.

That didn't happen before. Any ideas? haruhiko? :confused:

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Unfortunately I'm experiencing a new problem with ffdshow-MT r2279 :(

When I move the DVBViewer window from one screen to another one, the image remains black. This is using the Video Mixing Renderer.
I have to switch to another channel and back to the current one to get some picture again. Doesn't happen when Yadif is disabled.

That didn't happen before. Any ideas? haruhiko? :confused:

Still the problem remains in ffdshow-MT r2287 :o

[haruhiko_yamagata]

I don't have DVBViewer, there is no DVB in Japan.
I hope rev 2294 is the solution.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I don't have DVBViewer, there is no DVB in Japan.
I hope rev 2294 is the solution.

I don't think it's DVBViewer itself. I think it's the renderer, which has to re-initialize after the window has been moved between screens.

Now I will check out r2294. Well, as soon as I get my hands on a build :)

BTW: What do people use at Japan instead of DVB? I'm sure they have "digital" television! So they simply use a different format?

[haruhiko_yamagata]

In Japan digital television is protected and most tuner card doesn't allow ffdshow to decode the stream.
I use television to watch digital television.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

In Japan digital television is protected and most tuner card doesn't allow ffdshow to decode the stream.

:rolleyes: :(

[Leak]

I don't think it's DVBViewer itself. I think it's the renderer, which has to re-initialize after the window has been moved between screens.
I noticed the same using MPC-HC (with VMR9 renderless) yesterday, so it surely isn't related to DVBViewer itself.

Going fullscreen fixed the blackness, though.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I noticed the same using MPC-HC (with VMR9 renderless) yesterday, so it surely isn't related to DVBViewer itself.

Going fullscreen fixed the blackness, though.

Okay, I just gave ffdshow-MT r2294 a try and here are my observations:
* With Yadif enabled the video will freeze after I move the window from one screen to anthoer
* It takes ~10 seconds to recover, but it will only recover "sometimes", sometimes it won't
* In case it doesn't recover, the audio will freeze too after a short while and I need to restart
* With Yadif disabled, it takes ~3 seconds to recover after a screen switch (*)

(*) That's how it used to work all the time...

[haruhiko_yamagata]

* With Yadif enabled the video will freeze after I move the window from one screen to anthoer

Do you have multiple monitors and drug the title bar of a video window to another one?

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Do you have multiple monitors and drug the title bar of a video window to another one?

Yes, I have multiple monitors. And I dragged the window displaying the video from one screen the other one.
Usually the video will freeze for ~3 sec and then it will recover. I guess the Video Mixing Renderer has to re-initilize.
However with "internal" Yadif activated (not Avisynth one) it sometimes won't recover, but freeze until forever.


[EDIT]

Here is an additional observation:
If I move the window several time between the screens while Yadif is still turned off, then the video won't freeze.
However if I enable Yadif after having moved the window between the screens, it will freeze!

[haruhiko_yamagata]

I set up two monitors, still I cannot reproduce using MPC-HC.
Is double frame rate related?

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I set up two monitors, still I cannot reproduce using MPC-HC.
Is double frame rate related?

With "Double Framerate" disabled it won't freeze on screen switch, but takes pretty long (~10 secs) to recover.

New theory: The renderer will buffer the incoming frames while re-initilizing. As soon as it is up again, it will push out the buffered frames.
You will notice this because the video is running very fast, right after the video renderer has recovered after the screen switch.
With "Double Framerate" enabled there maybe to much frames, so there is buffer overflow or something in the renderer ???

However we need to keep in mind that this is NOT a problem at all when I use the Yadif deinterlacer inside ffdshow's Avisynth filter.
I can't reproduce it with MPC either, so it may be related to streaming media (DVB Source).
However MPC will starve (not only the video will freeze, the entire application won't respond) after a few screen switches...

Thanks for investigating :thanks:


BTW: You may need to use the "Video Mixing Renderer" to reproduce it :confused:

[haruhiko_yamagata]

Here is an additional observation:
If I move the window several time between the screens while Yadif is still turned off, then the video won't freeze.
However if I enable Yadif after having moved the window between the screens, it will freeze!At least, I hope this is fixed in the latest svn.:thanks:

[LoRd_MuldeR]

At least, I hope this is fixed in the latest svn.:thanks:

Sorry, I just gave ffdshow r2300-mt a try and it still takes very long to recover after screen switch (or freezes until forever) with internal Yadif enabled :o

[haruhiko_yamagata]

Sorry, I just gave ffdshow r2300-mt a try and it still takes very long to recover after screen switch (or freezes until forever) with internal Yadif enabled :oIs it the same if you move the window with yadif off and then enable yadif?

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Is it the same if you move the window with yadif off and then enable yadif?

If I disable Yadif before moving the video window to another screen, it will recover immediately. No freeze and no long delay.

However if I then re-enable Yadif, the video will either freeze for ~10 seconds or it will freeze until forever and I have to restart the channel...

[haruhiko_yamagata]

Is 2307 OK?
I have changed timestamps management.
Also 2307 should be much faster.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Is 2307 OK?
I have changed timestamps management.
Also 2307 should be much faster.

Thanks. I'll give it a go as soon as I can get my hands on a build :)


[EDIT]

Sorry to tell you, but the "screen switch" problem got even worse. Now switching channels in DVBViewer doesn't recover the video after freeze, as it did before. DVBViewer even crashed on me.

Maybe I simply need to get rid of the idea to use ffdshow's "internal" Yadif filter with DVBViewer. It's not a big loss as long as Avisynth Yadif still works fine inside ffdshow.

[haruhiko_yamagata]

Does DVBViewer work without a tuner card?
Can you reproduce the problem by playing a file off line?
If yes, I'll buy one.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Does DVBViewer work without a tuner card?

Not the "free" DVBViewer TE (Technisat Edition), which is intended for Technisat customers and bound to the hardware...

Can you reproduce the problem by playing a file off line?

Yes, I can. Playing a captured MEPG-2 file "offline" in DVBViewer does reproduce the problem.

I'm currently unable to re-produce it in MPC-HC with any renderer (I tested "Video Renderer", "Overlay Mixer" and "Video Mixing Renderer").
But in DVBViewer it happens with all renderes that are available in it's options dialog ("Video Mixing Renderer", "Overlay Mixer", "VMR7" and "VMR9")

Must be some obscurity in DVBViewer, I guess. Maybe the DVBSource filter :confused:

[haruhiko_yamagata]

I bought DVBViewer.
It always freezes if I move the window to another screen if I use VMR7. ffdshow is not related at all, it freezes what ever the decoder is. I even disabled ffdshow audio.

It freezes after a few tries, if I use VMR9. ffdshow nor yadif is not related as well.
I think this is more DVBViewer problem than ffdshow.

This problem occurs if I play ts/ps files. AVI file does not make it freeze. DVBSource must have something to do.

Do you still think yadif is related?
Does the file matter? if yes, please send me the sample.