XP won't start proper after going from 2gb to 4gb

[jonathonsunshine]

Howdy all,

I am running a Gigabyte ep35-ds3 mobo http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2741

running a Intel Q6600 quad core cpu.

I was/am running 2gb ram, Corsair TWIN2X1024-8500C5D (they have a link to a PDF on this page but only info on page itself itself is timings, 5-5-5-15.
http://corsair.com/products/dominator.aspx

More interesting thou is that this ram is one of the few listed as certified for this Mobo by the manufacturer.
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/MemorySupport/motherboard_memory_ga-ep35-ds3_2.1.pdf

Anyhoo, I bought another 2gb today, of the exact same stuff, , plugged it in turned on computer, XP (x86) booted up with sickly looking 16 color (4bit?) graphics and a message popped up saying (not sure exact words) "Windows was not able to validate its licence". For the sake of full disclosure I am prepared to admit that Ninjas may have entered my home in the twilight hours and installed pirated Windows XP on my computer, but if they did so (without my knowledge) it hasn't been a problem in the past and I told AutoUpdates that I don't need the WGA "patch".

Anyhoo, i figured it was stagefright, next boot will be ok, rebooted and and I now I can't even get into windows.

It would go on a endless restart circle involving "reading bios from hard disc" and then restarting to do it again. If I powered down completely and restarted I could get to the windows "windows did not start properly" screen, and then I would try safemode, but it would start then either. Crashed some time after the bright white line "Press any key to disable SPTD.DLL" loading... (again, I am not sure of exact words).

Anyhoo I pulled out the new 2gb and everything started as normal.

I will send a half ounce of icing sugar in a small ziplock bag (or loose in a plain envelope, your choice) to whom ever solves this.

Thanking you in advance.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Remove the new RAM modules, test your system with Memtest86+ (http://www.memtest.org/) and if all goes fine, add the new RAM modules and re-run the test.

This way you'll know whether the problem is caused by bad/incompatible RAM modules...

[RunningSkittle]

Did you remember to set your vdimm manually? I would venture to guess it needs 2.1v to boot. Where as the BIOS defaults to 1.8v

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Raising the voltage over 1,8 volts may damage the RAM modules, unless they were explicitly manufactured for that voltage...

[RunningSkittle]

jesus dont scare the guy.

From the PDF: Tested at latency settings (5-5-5-15-2T) at 2.1V
at 1066MHz

So there ya go

[Sharktooth]

the faster modules all require higher voltages.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

If the manufacturer says the RAM modules are supposed to run at 2,1 volts then it's save. You just shouldn't do that with any RAM modules...

[RunningSkittle]

obviously, thats why the BIOS defaults to 1.8v :|
But he was running PC8500. Even most DDRII800 needs at least 1.9v to boot properly.

[jonathonsunshine]

OK, I havn't run MEMTEST yet (I will, swear), but I went into the bios and it says my mem is running at 1066, at 2.22v. Everything is set to default, except timings which I'v manually set to 5.5.5.15. (I'v also let it set timings auto/default with no difference in result).

Anyhow, I pulled out the original 2gb and left in the new two, in the alternate sockets. IE, in the sockets that were empty when I was only running the two dimms. My computer has booted up just fine, no apparent problems, so like, I said, I havn't run Memtest but this would indicate there wasn't anything wrong with the ram itself right ?

[Sharktooth]

nope.
problems could be of varous kinds.
1 - even if the modules are the same brand and model they may be different or the difference comes from a defective but still working (just not as expected) chip.
2 - your original module may not support the voltage or timings you set for the new module in the bios
3 - some memory baks may be broken (if the system starts it doesnt mean the memory module is good!)
4 - one of your memory slots isnt clean (dust, ash... whatever) or just doesnt work as it should
5 - the memory controller doesnt work well
6 - the memory controller cant address one of your memory slots
7 - in your first try/tries the memory was incorrectly plugged in
8 - the bios/chipset/memory controller do not support that memmory module in other slots than the first
9 - the two modukes have some different characteristics (CAS, RAS, timings etc...) that they're incompatible (this can be due to "1").
10 - etc.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Test the individual modules (old vs. new) with Memtest86+. If no errors are found, the modules are okay. Then test them together...

[Shinigami-Sama]

try setting the timings to automatic?

[jonathonsunshine]

bad/incompatible RAM modules...

you were right, one of my original sticks failed memtest (chronicly)

However, I have managed to boot up windows with ONLY the bad stick of ram. Can this still explain why no luck with 4 gb ? All the other sticks turned out fine.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

However, I have managed to boot up windows with ONLY the bad stick of ram. Can this still explain why no luck with 4 gb ? All the other sticks turned out fine.

Yes, your system might boot up with the bad RAM modules. It will crash randomly when the bad memory blocks are accessed!

This might happen at any time, while booting your system or later...

[Shinigami-Sama]

best bet is to return it(if its the same brand and size as the new ones thats easy) and get a new one
broken ram is nothing but trouble

[jonathonsunshine]

Doh.... took memory bank, I pretended it was the ram I bought yesterday, they knew it by the serial number thou, so i told said, "whoops my mistake, must be the ram i bought a few months back".

If it HAD been ram I bought yesterday they would have tested it and replaced on the spot declaring it DOA, but cause it was the older set, they just send to manufacturer and say 2 weeks. :scared:

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I had a similar experience a while back: I bought a new RAM module, but as soon as I plugged it in, I saw blue screens all the time. Memtest86+ showed clearly that the RAM module was broken. So I returned it to the shop. But that moron at the shop insisted that the RAM module was okay and he didn't take it back. So I did another test on another PC and again Memtest86+ showed clearly that the RAM module was broken. I went back to the shop after the weekend. This time there was another guy, who took the bad RAM back immediately. Unfortunately they only replace bad RAM within the first 2 weeks and this period was just over. They sent it back to the manufacturer and I had to wait one month .......

[jonathonsunshine]

OK, I got my two sticks of ram back, I stuck em in the computer, ran memtest on the 1st boot, let it get through test 2 and then restarted. Rebooted. Windows (this time round I am running XP64, variety being spice of life and all) and it gets to a black screen with just my mouse pointer. I am still able to move mouse pointer. Nothing happening for a long time. I turn off computer. I turn computer back on. Windows starts booting, farking Blue Screan of Death flashes and computer restarts itself, I run memtest, memory is starting to fail....


I am seriously P.O.

I am assuming this is the fault of the mobo. I have had to many little quirks with this Mobo, I hate it, it is stupid P.O.S.

So... do you think it is the Mobo ? Ideally I wanna get rid of it (return for refund) and hopefully even get my 2gb of ram replaced again. Thou Ideally I would like to get my 2gb of ram replaced at the expense of Gigabyte, since Corsair have already sprung a new set for me once before.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I didn't think WinXP supported greater than 3Gb of RAM...

EDIT: Here's a link to something you may find useful: -

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may05/articles/pcnotes.htm

[Abnormal1]

Hi,
Have you tried setting the RAM to run at 800Mhz instead of the 1066.

Apparently some boards and chipset's don't like running 4 sticks at a high speed, Especially if they are not matched.

[RunningSkittle]

Its not a problem of XP supporting 3gb+, its that 32bit OS's can only address 4gb of memory, some of which is reserved for hardware.

[jonathonsunshine]

Hi,
Have you tried setting the RAM to run at 800Mhz instead of the 1066.

Apparently some boards and chipset's don't like running 4 sticks at a high speed, Especially if they are not matched.

Yeah, but I'm not doing anything special, this mobo is supposed to run at 1066, and go up to 1200 with some onboard (the mobo) tweaking thing that I'm not even using. I'm using identical ram, not only that, I am using ram that the mobo manufacturer specifically recommended, and I'm running it at stock speeds, its not overclocked or anything.


Its not a problem of XP supporting 3gb+, its that 32bit OS's can only address 4gb of memory, some of which is reserved for hardware.

Yeah, but this time I am running XP64 cause I know that it definitly supports 4gb plus.

[burfadel]

4gb and any Windows or other 32 bit operating systems aren't a good mix! The problem is most likely because there's an overlap with the address space, as some of you computer components (Video card!) require the address space above 3gb! Running Memtest in this situation is pointless, it would show the RAM as faulty due to the aforementioned addressing issue.

There is a way for 32 bit OS to get around the limitation, but that in itself can cause problems. The method is known as Physical Address Extension, and extends the addressing space out to 36 bits instead of the standard 32 bit. Sounds dodgy right? thats because it is! it doesn't work on some motherboards/chipsets, and those that it does work on you then have the problem that the hardware (or drivers?...) also have to support PAE! Such is the problems with PAE, Vista 32 bit doesn't allow it which is why it is limited to only 3 or so GB. Its not that its impossible to support more RAM, but reduced reliability and compatibility then become big issues.

The only way to get your full 4gb is to switch to a 64 bit OS, in which case it should work fine. I should also point out the PCI remapping for 64 bit isn't implemented properly on some older computers, and x64 versions may also be limited to 4GB (3GB for the OS) as well!

The way to get around this is to put in your 4gb of ram, load up in safe mode, then run msconfig. The version for XP is a little different to Vista, but set the maximum memory (after selecting it of course) to 3072. Reboot and windows should load fine! - unfortunately you are limited to the 3gb of RAM, just like EVERYBODY that buys or gets Vista x86 with their new computer from manufacturers that put 4gb of ram in the computers... instead of including Vista x64 which has a bad stigma about it but for those that have used both actually comes out as the better of the two!. Anyways, its purely a memory addressing issue. Like I said, its the reason why Vista x86 doesn't bother with PAE as it is unreliable. It may be offered in the future, but its been around for many years already and its reliability is unlikely to change! You may be able to limit your memory to as high as 3400 or more, it all depends on your graphics card RAM size and other factors. Try 3072 for a start though. Another option under XP is to disable PAE.

I missed that at first you were running XP x86 and now you're running XP x64, but its still a memory addressing issue. It could have been fixed with a later bios, sometimes they improve compatibility with certain modules... still, try the 3gb method. It would be annoying for you if that were the case, I'm sure the motherboard you listed would have proper PCI remapping. By any chance, you have got that turned on it the bios (if the option is changeable)? Plug and play OS? <-- yes Xp x64 and xp, and vista etc etc are plug and play! but sometimes its still advantageous to select 'no' for this for the bios to set it up and not Windows!

Update your display driver :) <-- old drivers may not take too kindly to the readdressed memory space!

[CWR03]

I didn't think WinXP supported greater than 3Gb of RAM...
According to the documentation with my two latest motherboards, XP just won't use more than 3 GB of RAM, but it fully "supports" it.

[burfadel]

According to the documentation with my two latest motherboards, XP just won't use more than 3 GB of RAM, but it fully "supports" it.

As I said, XP support PAE, it may be causing problems :) also on XP x64 the PCI remapping function of the bios may not be (properly) implemented or turned on. Also it could be as simple as changing 'plug and play OS' in the bios to 'no' instead of yes...

You can manually limit it to 3gb, this avoids all the issues if the above does not help!

(yes I did repeat what I wrote in the last post, just more concisely)!