Components for fast re-encoding in x264

[LOGiC]

@all,

I hope this is the right thread to post in. I've got a quite old computer system which needs about 30-40 hours for reencoding a file in x264 (and I don't have the best settings used). Which hardware would you recommend at least for fast re-encoding ?

Which CPU and how many RAM would I need to have ?

Thanks in advance

Andy.

[Dark Shikari]

The only thing that matters is your CPU.

Get a quad-core Core 2.

[LOGiC]

@Dark Shikari

thank you for your fast reply Sir. Which one specifically would you recommend for best price/quality ? I guess it does not need to be a Quad Extreme. I don't know if there are much encoding-speed differences between Quad 4x2,33Ghz and 4x2,67Ghz. Of course the last quad is faster, but does it matter in encoding significantly ?

Thanks again,

Andy.

P.S. What would you think of the new Intel Core2Quad Q9300 with 2,50 Ghz each core ? It's manufactured with 45nm and could fit my needs.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Get a Q6600 or Q6700. It's pretty cheap now and from all that I know it has very good overclocking capabilities.

I use Q6600 and I pretty happy with that one. Not overclocked...

[LOGiC]

Thank you Lord Mulder,

I need to buy everything new, which mainboard do you use, Gigabyte ?

Thank you in advance,

regards

Andy.

[Sharktooth]

always buy quality components. my personal preference is ASUS, however there are other good brands too.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I personally run my Q6600 on a GA-P35-DS3R (http://www.gigabyte.us/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ClassValue=Motherboard&ProductID=2515&ProductName=GA-P35-DS3R) board and GeIL (http://www.alternate.de/html/product/details.html?articleId=138986&showTechData=true) RAM modules.

[dat720]

The general consensus for RAM these day's is 2gb per core, that can get expensive on a quad core pc, but 4gb will give you a damn good performing machine, and as for the PCU, buy the best one you can justify the money for!

Also look at this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=135923) thread, it's all about x264 benchmarking, the link in the first thread takes you to a page with a table showing the performance of many CPU's, it should give you a good idea on which CPU is worth spending more on....

[LOGiC]

@dat720

Great post, thank you very much Sir, I will go through it and see, what fits best for me.

@Lord Mulder

Which case is your hardware in Sir, if I may ask ? I am just about to see what gives a good cooling solution.

[RunningSkittle]

Q6600 is a great deal, especially when overclocking.

The G0 stepping regularly is able to reach anywhere between 2.8 and 3.4ghz with stock voltages. 3.0ghz (333x*9) is as easy as simply enabling manual clock control and setting the fsb to 333mhz.

here is mine at 3.2ghz with stock voltages:
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/desktop.png
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/DSCF5005.JPG

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Which case is your hardware in Sir, if I may ask ? I am just about to see what gives a good cooling solution.

This is my case:
http://www.alternate.de/html/product/details.html?articleId=73064&showTechData=true

I can say that I'm pretty pleased with it. The quality is good and it comes with two 12cm (4,7") fans built-in (one on the side, one on the back).

[RunningSkittle]

Ive owned that case before. I STRONGLY recommend against it. Very poor construction, and very poor layout. I guess lord_mulder has never worked with a good quality case before :p

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Ive owned that case before. I STRONGLY recommend against it. Very poor construction, and very poor layout. I guess lord_mulder has never worked with a good quality case before :p

IMO this is a very good case. If you say "poor layout" and "poor construction" you must prove that.
The case itself is very stable (good quality) and the installation was very easy (no problems at all).

I had various cases and this is the best by far. There might better cases, of course. But at this price?

[RunningSkittle]

at that price ($50)? probably not... but for a mere $30 more you can get a MUCH better quality case.

Theres nothing to "prove". Its made out of cheap thin steel. Its very very easy to warp the side panels. The harddrive cage is oriented goofy, barely allowing any air to pass over the drives. Cable management is a complete nightmare. The power and reset buttons are very poorly designed. But for $50 I guess you get your moneys worth.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

The harddrive cage is one of the details I really like :D

HDD in, HDD out - takes about 5 seconds. No need to mess around with any screws or to crick your arm ;)


Well, after all LOGiC has to decide what he needs and how much money he is willing to spend...

[LOGiC]

@Lord Mulder,

it's always a hard decission. The case that my living-room hardware is in is a Lian Li where just the case was more than 200 EUR. I am not willing to spend the same money for my office-room where the PC should do some encodings, but I need to have something with a good airflow and due to the fact, that I am not the best technician, something where I can place all the hardware easily in.

What do you guys think of this one ?

http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Gehaeuse/Lian-Li/Lian-Li-Midi-Tower/Lian-Li-PC-7-B-Plus-II-Window-Edition-black::10797.html


Alternatives are Chieftec LCX-01SL, Lancool K1 or K7, Revoltec RT-201 or Enermax Chakra.

All are below 100 EUR.

@Lord Mulder

another question. If I will get i.e. Q6600 or Q6700, would I need to have at least 1 GB per channel, that means 4x1GB or 2x2GB or is this not important ?

[LoRd_MuldeR]

AFAIK two modules are sufficient to enable Dual Channel, you only need two modules of the same size. The quadcore CPU doesn't change this...

[Sharktooth]

future quad and multicores will though... starting from nahelem...

[LOGiC]

oh ok, I see, thank you for the information. Do I need to take care of anything else, any special latencies ? Your geIL-Ram looks very good, and cheap. I could take 4GB for the beginning then.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

oh ok, I see, thank you for the information. Do I need to take care of anything else, any special latencies ? Your geIL-Ram looks very good, and cheap. I could take 4GB for the beginning then.

My RAM's are running rock-stable at CL-4. Also they are on the "Memory Support List" of the GA-P35-DS3R board. But you must raise the voltage from 1,8 to 2,1 Volts!

If first bought two modules. Then I bought another two, because the two modules I already had did work fine for me and the price had dropped again. Now I have four modules (4 GB).

[LOGiC]

@all,

this may be a stupid question, but where exactly is the difference between the normal Core2 / QuadCore and the Xeon-quadcores ?

Thanks in advance

Andy.

[Dark Shikari]

@all,

this may be a stupid question, but where exactly is the difference between the normal Core2 / QuadCore and the Xeon-quadcores ?

Thanks in advance

Andy.The latter is more expensive. </cynic>

[LOGiC]

Are they any faster then the normal quads ? I was just wondering because of the x264 benchmark thread. I am just trying to figure out if it's worth spending some more money and being satisfied. I often tried to save money and weeks later, I was asking myself why I did not spend i.e. $100 extra bucks. Sometimes you save money at the wrong end, I often do :-(

/EDIT: Geeeeesh, I think the boards are loads more expensive for this processor, so I think I stick to your words, lol.

[RunningSkittle]

I really love lian-li cases, they represent the pinacle PC Cases.

other cases to look at:

Coolermaster RC-690 (my current and favorite case)
Antec P180/P182/P150/solo
Antec 900
coolermaster Cosmos(S)
coolermaster stacker
thermaltake Armour

Other suggestions: Check out some yate-loon fans if you can find them. Volt mod them to 7v or 5v and enjoy a virtually silent pc :).
If you cant find anyone who sells yate-loon fans, look for some on this list: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article63-page2.html

Also check out some good coolers for your CPU. Current favorites of the enthusiast community are the sunbeam corecontact and the xigmatek S1283 (with the backplate, not the pushpins). Both of these HSF's rival the cooling power of the ultra 120 extreme at less than half the price.

edit: the new 45nm quads are 2-7% faster on average than the 65nm series. With its superb overclocking capabilities, the Q6600 is by far the bang-for-buck champ.
edit2: dont be looking at xeons, those are for servers. Im sure you dont want to be buying slow expensive FB-DIMMs and an expensive server mobo ;)

[LOGiC]

Q6600 is a great deal, especially when overclocking.

The G0 stepping regularly is able to reach anywhere between 2.8 and 3.4ghz with stock voltages. 3.0ghz (333x*9) is as easy as simply enabling manual clock control and setting the fsb to 333mhz.

here is mine at 3.2ghz with stock voltages:
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/desktop.png
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/DSCF5005.JPG

@Skittle

which case are you using ? One of the pictures looks quite interesting.

[RunningSkittle]

Im using the coolermaster RC-690. It was very easy to work with, cable routing was a very nice experience as there is plenty of room behind the back panel). My only complaint is that while its really really easy to switch HDDs, the HDD trays do transfer some vibration to the case. Also its price wont kill your wallet. its around $80.

Here is a complete parts list:
Q6600 @ 3.0ghz (333*9 = 1333fsb)
2x2GB Corsair DDRII 800
Xigmatek S1283
2x Samsung SH-S203B (second not pictured)
Gigabyte EP45-DS3L
Corsair 520HX
Sapphire HD4850
Coolermaster RC-690
HT-Omega Striker 7.1
Logitech G11
Logitech G5
Windows Vista x64

Pictures:
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/DSCF5005.JPG
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/DSCF5008.JPG
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/DSCF5009.JPG
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/DSCF5010.JPG
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/DSCF5012.JPG
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/DSCF5016.JPG
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/DSCF5019.JPG
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/DSCF5020.JPG
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/desktop.png

[Blue_MiSfit]

Q6600, and 4 GB of cheap DDR2-800 on a P35 board, with a quality power supply and reasonable cooling.

/thread

~MiSfit

[foxyshadis]

Are they any faster then the normal quads ? I was just wondering because of the x264 benchmark thread. I am just trying to figure out if it's worth spending some more money and being satisfied. I often tried to save money and weeks later, I was asking myself why I did not spend i.e. $100 extra bucks. Sometimes you save money at the wrong end, I often do :-(

/EDIT: Geeeeesh, I think the boards are loads more expensive for this processor, so I think I stick to your words, lol.

You can use multiple Xeons in a single system (so if you want 8 or 16 core, there you go), and they use different kinds of (more expensive) memory (if you want 64 GB, you need that).

[RunningSkittle]

^ I think the OP was more or less looking for consumer parts ;)

[dat720]

I'll throw another case into the ring!!!

Check out the Antec Three hundred (http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=15300#)

Nice layout great for keeping a system cool... nice and cheap!

[burfadel]

The main thing to be wary of when overclocking is the CPU temp, there is a reason why they're not running that fast to start with! Running a q6600 may be fine if its cool, but when its warm/hot, even with the best case and the best air cpu cooler you'll find the CPU will overheat if running flat out. Many programmes under report the cpu temperature, or they report the temperature of the cores and not the CPU. The temperature of the CPU is always higher than the temp for individual cores! If the CPU is rated at 75C (or 80C), it means the cpu temp shouldn't exceed that, not the core temp! I've notice most motherboards don't throttle the CPU back properly with its thermal protection like they should.

[RunningSkittle]

...even with the best case and the best air cpu cooler you'll find the CPU will overheat if running flat out...

Of course reaching speeds in excess of 4ghz with the q6600 may not be attainable with air cooling, but 3.6ghz is easily reached.

...Many programmes under report the cpu temperature, or they report the temperature of the cores and not the CPU. The temperature of the CPU is always higher than the temp for individual cores! If the CPU is rated at 75C (or 80C), it means the cpu temp shouldn't exceed that, not the core temp! I've notice most motherboards don't throttle the CPU back properly with its thermal protection like they should.

There is no standard tool for measuring intel core temperatures. Measuring the "CPU" temperature is pretty much a useless feature. It just reports the temperature measured on the motherboard thats near the CPU. The chips themselves have thermal diodes (DTS sensors) that report a delta between the maximum operating temperature of the chip and the current running temperature. Unfortunately Intel does not publish the maximum operating temperature of the CORE series chips, so it is impossible to know for certain the exact temperatures. Current programs use an estimated Tmax value.) CPU temperature will NEVER be higher than the cores (because it is physically impossible to measure a hotter point that is further away from the heat source)

Just in case you didn't catch it before: Motherboards dont throttle the CPU. The CPU has its own thermal sensors, meaning that the motherboard plays 0 roles when throttling the CPU.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

The temperature of the CPU is always higher than the temp for individual cores!

Nope :scared:

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1218/cputempex4.png

[Sharktooth]

the 50°C are reported by the motherboard sensor... that is pretty far away from the CPU.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

the 50°C are reported by the motherboard sensor... that is pretty far away from the CPU.

I don't think so. I think the 36°C are from the motherboard sensor and the 50°C are from the CPU sensor...

[Sharktooth]

I don't think so. The 36°C are from the motherboard sensor and the 50°C are from the CPU sensor...The motherboard has 2 sensors... 1 for the CPU 1 for the system...
the CPU sensor (or thermal diode) is located under the CPU but it usually do not even touch it... so the reported temp is lower than it really is. Some MB bioses (like all ASUS MBs) compensate for that by adding an arbitrary (decided by the manufacturer) value to the final temp but theres still a significative difference from the internal (CPU) thermal diode and the one located on the board.

[burfadel]

My point is if you look at the wrong temperature, which often is the case! - even programmes do that, then you could run your cpu hot which doesn't do it any good! Especially when you consider it would be running close to 100 percent for several hours during an encode.

[LOGiC]

@burfadel

Which is the best way in your opinion to check or read out the correct temperature ? Especially if you are encoding for several hours. Don't want the CPU to say goodbye while running.

[foxyshadis]

The CPU will never say goodbye. You'll usually just get thermal throttling, thermal shutdown, or a crashed windows/blue screen at worst.

[RunningSkittle]

This is the best method:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/221745-29-core-quad-temperature-guide

If your looking for something easy without having to calibrate sensors, then "realtemp" is the best option.

[Sharktooth]

@burfadel: the CPU has internal thermal diodes too... so if it gets too hot the thermal throttling/shutdown is engaged.

[RunningSkittle]

not to mention x264 cannot produce even close to 100% of your cpus thermal capacity.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Which is the best way in your opinion to check or read out the correct temperature ?

You can use CoreTemp (http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/) to read out the internal thermal diodes of the individual cores. Alternatively you can use CPUID HWMontitor (http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php).

There are many more tools...

not to mention x264 cannot produce even close to 100% of your cpus thermal capacity.

x264 can easily generate 100% load on all four cores of your CPU. And that over a very long time. Encoding a full movie can take 20+ hours.

If not that, what else should produce maximal temperature on your CPU? :confused:

[RunningSkittle]

X264 can produce 100% load, yes, but not 100% of its thermal capacity.

To do this you need to use an app that seriously ties up every one of the cpus resources. ever heard of prime95 :)

And even then, prime95 cannot reach the maximum (although it does reach the theoretically possible maximum attainable by applications). Intels Thermal Analysis Tool (TAT) can obtain %115 the thermal load of prime95.

Coretemp was deemed to be not accurate for core2 processors quite a long time ago. Read that article i posted by computronix.

Realtemp is the most accurate out of the box analysis tool.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Well, the tools you mention are special tools intended to put maximum stress on your CPU and test the stability of the system. This is nothing one would do for every day work ;)

Encoding videos at 100% CPU load (on all coes) for several hours still is one of the most "heat producing" task that people do regularly...

[RunningSkittle]

Thats the sole reason that those specific tools exist. They are designed to expose weak areas in your overclock. If your overclock can pass a prime95 stress test, then x264 should be no problem (and your core temperatures will be somewhere around 5c lower.)

If you want real world loads, then you have to use real world apps :)

[burfadel]

My main point is to be careful of CPU temps, especially when looking at other overclocks on the net! The cpu throttling doesn't work properly for many people... but even if it does it must be considered that the hotter it runs the shorter its life will be!...

[jonathonsunshine]

I personally run my Q6600 on a GA-P35-DS3R (http://www.gigabyte.us/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ClassValue=Motherboard&ProductID=2515&ProductName=GA-P35-DS3R) board and GeIL (http://www.alternate.de/html/product/details.html?articleId=138986&showTechData=true) RAM modules.

Personally I couldn't recommend this board. I have the GA-EP35-DS3 http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2741

Its not the same one but it is pretty similar, and I've had problems with it. It didn't like my PCIe Digital TV Card http://www.comprousa.com/en/product/e700f/e700f.html and the fact that it recommends you use particular types of memory should have set off alarm bells in the back of my mind.

[dat720]

I stay away from any motherbaord that reccomends certain brands of ram, it could be because of a partnership deal or it could be because of incompatibility either way i hate the concept.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I stay away from any motherbaord that reccomends certain brands of ram, it could be because of a partnership deal or it could be because of incompatibility either way i hate the concept.

I think all mainbaord manufacturers (or at least the great majority of them) release such lists nowadays.

If you use "compatible" RAM, then you can be sure it has been tested and it's supposed to work. If you use other RAM and it doesn't work, then it's your own problem...