Weird problem w/ Procoder 3

[toathis]

Alright, I will try and give as much information as humanly possible. However, I am sure I will forget some relevant info that might be helpful in the diagnosis of my problem.

I am using the latest version of DVD Rebuilder PRO. I use Ripit4Me to rip to my HDD, if not possible then latest DVD FAB. I am running WIN XP x64 bit edition. I burn with Imgburn at 4x with Verbatim Media. I am running Grass valley's Procoder 3. I use Menu Shrink most of the time, 95% of time estimation.

I have never had a problem before using Procoder along with DVD rebuilder. However, lately an unusual problem. During playback wether it be at the very beginning or present itself later in the playback, I experience a slow down, out of sync, and uneven audio/video stream.

It is weird. I have always used Procoder 2 with rebuilder pro, never had a single problem whatsoever. Once I got a x64 bit edition of XP I originally installed Procder 3, when I started experencing this problem, I reverted back to my copy of Procoder 2 (Running along side latest rebuilder) to see if that was perhaps the problem. However, the resulting DVD disc experienced the same slowdown video stream and out of sync audio stream.

Very very unusual problem. I consider myself an expert. I have been backing up my legally purchased DVD video discs for over 5 years and have always follwed the advice of the Digital Video Forums and Doom9. Perhaps, and I hope that Jddobs will know exactly what the problem is, I have not changed my ripping, backup, and burning procedure in recent history. I have always used the latest lighting UK! burning method, running either the latest DVDD, RIPIT4ME or FAB, and running the latestt Rebuilder or shrink.

I am really confused and upset that this has become problematic. I want to give a shout-out to LIGTHING UK! and JDDOBS. I have always supported and donated to your wonderful programs, I have never reverted to anything else. Your devotion to this community is much appreciated and recognized. Thank you very very much.

[blutach]

This problematic DVD - have all tiny cells been removed from the title? This can be a cause of sync issues.

Regards

[toathis]

you are referring to the phase after the rip where it shows the option: remove protected cells, remove useless menu cells, remove tiny cells, remove last title set...

I always keep them all checked. is that step even necessary? or which particular ones are necessary? Because I thought by leaving them all check I would be taking all necessary precautions

[blutach]

Well, it should be - you can examine the PGC's structure in PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html).

Regards

[setarip_old]

@toathis

Hi!

What is the Title and Region number of the problematic DVD?

[toathis]

Yeah I have no idea in the world how to use PGC edit. When I am say I am an expert, I guess not in that extreme sense. Would you say I would be safe unchecking the remove tiny cells option on all my disks though and if it doesn't open in Shrink then I have a problem?

The disk is Battlestar Gallatica Season 2.5 Disk 1. Region 1.

[setarip_old]

The disk is Battlestar Gallatica Season 2.5 Disk 1. Region 1.According to my records, that DVD has no special or newer copy protection.

In light of this (and your problem), I'd suggest that you re-rip the DVD using good ol' DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4...

[toathis]

New problem with the movie MY LEFT FOOT, REGION 1. This time I choose to to remove tiny cells and useless menu cells. Half-way through the movie I get the Audio/Video sync slow down issue. This is a new and strange problem indeed :(

[setarip_old]

Have you as yet tried my suggestion to rip the DVD using good ol' DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4... ?

("My Left Foot", a 2005 Miramax release [as with Battlestar Galactica S2.5] contains no special or newer copy protection.)

[toathis]

Yep. Ripped it with the latest DVDD alone. Same problem.

I played both of the rips (One with Ripit4me) (One with DvdD alone) back on Windows Media Player classic. Both rips played back flawlessly. Both rips of Battle Star Gallactica S2.5 Disk 1 and My Left Foot (1989) that is.

SO we are definitely dealing with a REBUILDER problem here. Not a Decryption problem.

[blutach]

First, test your rip in a software player. Any slowdown / sync issues? If not, the rip is OK. Also, has there been any preprocessing (after the rip)? If so, return to the rip and load the project into DVDRB and encode that.

What version number of DVDRB are you using? Ditto for AVISynth? Any filters being used?

Regards

[setarip_old]

To be certain that we're "all on the same page", when you refer to the a/v synch problem, are you observing this:

1) ONLY when playing a burned disc on your PC, or

2) ONLY when playing a burned disc on your standalone player, or

3) ONLY when playing a Rebuilder "package" from your hard drive ?

[jdobbs]

New problem with the movie MY LEFT FOOT, REGION 1. This time I choose to to remove tiny cells and useless menu cells. Half-way through the movie I get the Audio/Video sync slow down issue. This is a new and strange problem indeed :(
What happens if you don't remove anything?

[toathis]

The problem only occurs when the burned DVD disk is played back on any of my standalone players. That means after DVD rebuilder has done its magic, created an ISO and I burned it with Imgburn to my verbatim media at 4x. Never had any problems before, until just recently. This error only occurs on some titles, not all. I have now estimated that it happens to around 11% of all movies I backup.

I have gone through the process 3 separate times. With the titles My Left Foot (1989), Battlestar Gallatica S2.5 Disk 4, and now Nights of Cabiria (Criterion Collection).

1) Using ripit4me 1.7.1.0 removing all protected cells, useless menu, tiny cells, and blanking last titleset(s) if needed.

2) Using riptit4me 1.7.1.0 skipping the removal process.

3) Using DVD Decrypter 3.5.4.0 alone.

Each time I then ran the result through menu shrink then DVD Rebuilder Pro v1.28.2
mastering mode with Procoder 3.

[setarip_old]

The problem only occurs when the burned DVD disk is played back on any of my standalone players.So, you are saying that if you playback the burned disc on your PC, there is no problem - and, likewise, if you play the ISO from your hard drive (with VLC or similar) there is also no problem.

If this is so, it would appear that the problem has nothing to do with Rebuilder. Rather, it would seem that only your standalone players are having difficulty with your burned DVD - possibly due to burn speed, brand of media (or MID), or less likely (since you refer to multiple SAPs) need to run a DVD/CD cleaning disc on your standalone player (Maxell makes one that sells for approximately $10US)

[toathis]

Nope, nope, nope, nope. I already have mentioned that I am using 1st class verbatim media and burning at 4x.

The ISO played back in VLC media player is flawed just as it is burned on to a disc and played on my stand alones. All my equipment is top of the line and brand new (Although not relevant at this point).

I will try these disks through DVD shrink and that shall be the tell true sign that it is in fact a problem related to Rebuilder.

[toathis]

Alright guys, just finished transcoding My Left Foot with DVD SHRINK. Just as I predicted, FLAWLESS playback. So it is 100% for sure, without a doubt, no questions asked, a DVD REBUILDER problem.

I just wanted to mention, because I don't think I did before, I am running Procoder 3 and Rebuilder under XP x64 bit operating system. I just want to make sure all basis are covered. However, I do remember during the school year I tried to backup Nights of Cabiria on my laptop running X32 bit XP with Procoder 3 and Rebuilder and encountered this problem. SO I don't think that is an issue.

[dialysis1]

Have you tried using HCenc just to see if you still have the same issue?

[toathis]

I will try that next, good idea.

[setarip_old]

First, you said:The problem only occurs when the burned DVD disk is played back on any of my standalone players.Now you've saidThe ISO played back in VLC media player is flawed just as it is burned on to a disc and played on my stand alones.To me, at least, these two statements are directly contradictory. I'm sure "jdobbs" will be able to sort things out...

[jdobbs]

So it is 100% for sure, without a doubt, no questions asked, a DVD REBUILDER problem. I disagree with this completely. You are editing the software to remove sections. That is almost assuredly the source of the problem. It is very easy to cause audio sync problem when removing sections of a DVD. The fact that your process is seeing issues on 11% of your backups while no one else is reporting this issue also seems to point to the editing process.

As I asked before: What happens if you don't preprocess and remove sections and also don't use any other external programs (such as MenuShrink, Ripit4Me) to modify the output?

I've done well over 2000 full backups, including some of the titles you have mentioned and have never seen an audio sync problem.

[blutach]

MenuShrink should not be a huge issue since it does nothing to the movie VOBs or that part of the IFOs which are devoted to the movie. Still, try an encode without it and perhaps post process with it after you are thoroughly happy (or still unhappy and can rule it out). I have done plenty of DVDs with MenuShrink with no ill effect.

Nonetheless, as suggested now by lots of us, do try an encode with no preprocessing.

As well, it could be the encoder, as dialysis1 said. If that is producing bad time stamps, then you will experience audio issues. A run with HCEnc will determine this.

Regards

[toathis]

Yeah. So I ran My Left Foot through HC encoder and the output was perfect! So there is something wrong with Procoder 3 and the processing. I don't understand how that can be an issue. I have tried once with multiple processors (4 on my system) and once without it and the result was the same.

Thanks for all your help guys, I just hope now we are close to diagnosing this issue.

[blutach]

Time to let Grass Valley customer support know.

Regards

[toathis]

alright, thanks Blutach.

Which version of Avisynth should I be using? I currently am running 2.5.6.0.

[blutach]

I use version 2.5.8 but the current DVD Rebuilder (http://dvd-rb.dvd2go.org/) uses 2.5.7, I think. Uninstall and reinstall anyway and see if that helps.

Regards

[vikas_lk]

toathis, it would be worth trying the encode again with procoder 3, but make sure to use frame-based encoding instead of field-based encoding. I've noticed some standalones do not play Procoder's field-based encodes correctly.