Kinescope restoration back to 60i

[Wilbert]

Doesn't "i" indicate "interlaced"?
Yes, indeed.

now this is confusing, sony's 60i means interlaced ntsc video,
but 60i here apparently refers to progressive materials.

No, it means interlaced.

[Mug Funky]

you could say "60" refers to the timebase in Hz rather than the framerate.

then the p or i denotes whether this timebase is expressed in fields per second or progressive frames per second.

60i is the standard way of saying 30fps, interlaced. it's not just marketing bunk either, as the EBU and SMPTE standards also use this terminology.

@ johnmeyer: the last bit of kine i transferred must have been done on a newer machine. fields were visible when i zoomed in my TK, but i didn't have enough time alone with the film to try to line it up perfectly. also, there was natural blurring, probably in the lens used (it was gaussian-ish). weave isn't too bad on modern cameras, and not a problem at all with pin-registered scanners (unless the film is still soft from cleaning). but of course not much kine has been done with modern cameras :) the most recent bit of kine i can think of is the TV series "Frontline", where the documentary-style bulk of the program was shot on hi8 and kine'd to 16mm, then TK'd back to beta SP... sort of like a very expensive deinterlace.

[NerdWithNoLife]

you could say "60" refers to the timebase in Hz rather than the framerate.

then the p or i denotes whether this timebase is expressed in fields per second or progressive frames per second.
Instinctively, I want to disagree (I was trained to think that 30i is 30 interlaced frames per second), but I can see how after using double weave for example, it's kinda sorta 60i, though it should effectively be the same as 30i. But if you were to separate the fields of double weaved "60i" it would be 120 fields per second, with every 4 being identical. And fields aren't interlaced, right? So calling it 60i while referring to fields is a bit odd to me. You've destroyed my education - I don't know what to think anymore! :confused:

[johnmeyer]

the last bit of kine i transferred must have been done on a newer machine. fields were visible when i zoomed in my TKI'm not sure whether anything has been transferred via the Kinescope process since the early 1970s. There are definitely a LOT of movies being shot on video and then transferred to film, but those video to film transfers (including those done from earlier formats like Hi8) are NOT done using a Kinescope. Instead, they are transferred using a film recorder. This device is similar to those used years ago to make 35mm slides for presentations. The usual method is to first resample (from 29.97 to 24) and then deinterlace the video (if you didn't shoot 24p or 25p). Then, each frame is displayed on the film recorder screen, and a photograph is made onto 16mm or 35mm film. Thus, the deinterlacing and frame decimation are done in software. The film recorder display is not a raster display, so there will be no raster lines.

As for the gate weave, it is still pretty obvious even in modern Hollywood movies. If you look at a static title, you'll see it bounce around. If you ever watch the old movies on the TCM channel, they all exhibit gate weave, even though they have been transferred to video from film using a Rank scanner, which provides near-perfect registration. The problem is that the cameras don't have the luxury of advancing the film slowly, but instead have to run at 24 fps. There is just too much stretch, pull, wobble, bounce, etc. in that process, and it only takes a fraction of a millimeter to result in fairly significan movement up there on the big screen.

Raster lines should not be evident in kinescopes because back when this technology was used, a "wobble" was added to each scan line to make it vary up and down slightly. This had the effect of erasing the lines between fields. There were other techniques used, but this is the one most commonly mentioned.

[mikeytown2]

I wonder how could you video geeks still use 60i instead of 30i ?

24p = 24 progressive frames per sec. (film)
30i = 30 interlaced frames per sec = 60 fields interlaced (ntsc)
60p = 30i Bobbed (mostly likely)

where did the 60i come from?

60i = 120 field interlaced.

I'm sure you don't mean that.

Here's a post I made on this subject
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1213819#post1213819