graphics card which one ?

[cjaar]

am planning to build a multimedia pc, with so many GPUs in the mkit, am confused with what graphics card to buy? Bascially i will be playing
games( dx 10) and HD 1080p x264 and vc1 vidoes, hooked to SAmsung 2493HM monitor(supports VGA, DVI-D, and HDMI)
Also does the current PCIX cards need additional power ?, in that case what shd be the SMPS wattage ?

Am looking at nvidia 8800, dont really undertsand those GTX, GT stuff :(

looking for a mid rage GPU. any inputs apperciated.

cjaar

[_xxl]

HD 1080p x264 and vc1 vidoes
Here you could read about DXVA compatibility and support.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123537

[dat720]

Buy the best graphics card you can afford, performance wise usually steps like this for nvidia video cards GS, GT, GTX, GTX Ultra, then of course you could go SLI, which is 2 cards working with each other.

PCIE cards can still require additional power, but it depends on the model, a 8800gs shouldn't require extra power (but it depends on brand) where as a 8800GTX requires 2 additional molex conenctors.

I suggest you head over to toms hardware and start reading some reviews, also look at the vga chart's you will get a good idea of what you should be purchasing.

[JoeShrubbery]

Here's a second for Toms, I've found them a decent resource over the years especially with their monthly "Best Graphics Cards For The Money" articles. Here's the latest:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-cards,1965.html

[RunningSkittle]

check out the 4850. it runs a little hot, but just pick up an accelero S1 for it. Puts the 8800 and 9800 series to shame for a (much) lower price.

[Sharktooth]

ATI 4850 is the actual "best bang for the buck"... if you want to spend a bit more then look at the 4870 or the 4850 X2.
the "it runs hot" was fixed with the new catalyst 8.7.
use google to find 4850/4879 reviews, comparisons and benchmarks.
basically it (the 4850) has the games performance of a nvidia 9800GTX or GTX+ (the fastest 9800), sometimes even more, a teraflop processor and fits in a single slot while it costs much less.

[RunningSkittle]

the "it runs hot" was fixed with the new catalyst 8.7.

I assume you dont own one (I do). Idle temps at 27% fan speed are still around 75c with catalyst 8.7. Gets up to around 105c at load, then the fan ramps up. It is loud.

To put it simply, ATI stuck a very inadequate HSF on the 4850

[Sharktooth]

have a look here: http://www.overclock.net/ati/350972-fan-speed-fix-4850-4870-a.html and/or here: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1320351
i cant hear the fan until i set it over 40%. at 100% it sounds like a jet... but 35/40% is enough too cool it down to acceptable levels.
what videocard brand you have? maybe they put a noisy fan on it. if "automatic" doesnt work for you AND you have a noisy fan, you're doomed.
you have to wait for a 3rd party cooler... always buy quality stuff. cheap manufactured crap costs less but there's always a reason...

btw, the cat8.7 fixed the "automatic" for me (ASUS vifdeocard).

[RunningSkittle]

40% is the maximum acceptable level while playing a game(for me anyway). Of course it lowers temperatures, but when I have three yate loon fans volt modded @ 5v, even 30% with the stock cooler is loud. at 40% (~4700rpm) I can hear the little thing annoyingly whirling away from 15ft away. ~4700rpm will be loud with ANY fan.

And its the stock reference cooler from ATI. They are the same on all 4850s (save for the new ones with 3rd party cooling)at the moment. It doesnt matter what manufacturer you chose.

with all due respect, i dont choose cheap parts. And the accelero S1 is just about the best vga heatsink you can buy.
http://deep.phpwebhosting.com/~mactownkrisp/computer/DSCF5005.JPG
^good quality parts, although in the picture still using coolermaster fans powered by the board. HDDs are now suspended with elastic bands.

Edit: at 45% fanspeed, its idling at 59c
If you dont think the stock cooler has issues... well then I would have to question your ability to feel heat.

[Sharktooth]

well, i actually have serious problems feeling the temps (multiple sclerosis does that too... ) but as i said when the fan is @40% i start to hear it. my PC is also stuffed into a (made by myself) noise absorbing box.
so it's difficult i can hear anything :)
however, from the reviews i saw, the fan (under load) of some cards (they seem to have different fans) is well below the 35db which is good: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_4850/22.html
so you can set it to the same level at idle to keep it cool.
my suggeston is to get a quiet and cool 4850 (like the powercolor branded) if you want silence. if you care about the performance, choose one of the factory overclocked 4850 or higher models.

[RunningSkittle]

Or I can pickup an accelero S1 for $29.99 and stick a 120mm yate loon ~500rpm, and keep it at 40-50c. Im certainly not going to buy a new card :/

35db is very loud, by the way.

[Sharktooth]

yep, that's a excellent choice. however the noise depends on the computer case too.

[RunningSkittle]

No it doesnt, 35db is 35db. It doesnt matter where its measured from.

A yateloon at 500rpm will be virtually silent. the stock ATI fan at 40% ~4500rpm will be loud. Theres no point in arguing that.

[Sharktooth]

yep, but usually they have open cases or just no case at all.

[RunningSkittle]

they who? certainly not any sane user. Certainly not any test using good scientific testing methods.

[Sharktooth]

the reviewers... however i said "usually". that's why different tests = completely different results by wide margins.
a closed case makes a big difference. measuring the noise always in the right (same) places makes a big difference.... etc...
thats why i choose this review: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_4850/22.html
closed case, noise measured frontally at 1mt of distance from the case.
as you can see the 4850 is not the most noisy card at all. it's one of the most silent ones on idle and even under load it produces lower noise than slower cards like the nvidia 8500gt or the 9800gtx

[RunningSkittle]

Yes, the card is quiet when its idle. Although the temperatures are very very high, negating the quietness of its fans idle speed.

by their own test, techpowerup noted a 74c idle temp, and 96c load temp. thats just plain unacceptable.

But once again, stock coolers cannot even begin to compare to a good 3rd party HSF.

[Sharktooth]

even revving up the fan when idle at same speeds of when the card is under load, it wont be the loudest card tested.
it will be slightly louder (2db) than the gtx 280 or the 9600gt turbo and quieter than the 7600, the 3850. thr 8500gy... etc. with much lower temps.

[RunningSkittle]

Im not comparing it to other stock coolers, I dont care how loud any other stock cooler is (they are all too loud). I am comparing it to how it stacks up against a 3rd party HSF.. in which the stock HSF on the 4850 fails miserably.

Anyway you look at it 96c @ load the stock cooler, with supposedly "fixed" drivers, is just unacceptable!

a $30 3rd party HSF with a 500rpm fan can achieve temperatures 40c lower than the stock cooler at 4500rpm.

The ending note on most review sites for the 4850 is that the stock HSF is just barely adequate to cool it.

[Sharktooth]

i dont think so coz the temp go down a lot (by 20, 30, 40 C) as soon as the fan is set to manual. so i think it's more a software problem (thresholds?).
also the CHIP was made to work at high temps...
however 3rd party HSFs are ALWAYS recommended for ALL video cards, even the dual slot ones, and CPUs coz the stock HSFs really suck.

[Sharktooth]

http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=21094&catid=2
if the price will be good this is the one to get.

[dat720]

coz the stock HSFs really suck.

It's not that they suck, its that they operate at their specified parameters, if the manufacturer wanted to run the GPU/CPU cooler they would have spec'd higher performance coolers.

[RunningSkittle]

@sharktooth:

thats the EXACT same cooler i linked to earlier :rolleyes:

its 29.99 at newegg.

[Sharktooth]

yep i know, that's why i said, if the price is good that is the one to get.
if it costs only 30 to 50$ more than the standard 4850, i would not bother buying a stock card, a separate cooler, remove the stock cooloer and mount the one i bought separately.

[RunningSkittle]

heh, it better not cost more than $30 more than a standard 4850... as thats how much the HSF costs retail.

[Sharktooth]

yep, but you have to remove the stock cooler, clean the chips re-apply the thermal paste and mount the new cooler. time, work and experience (perfect mounting) are valuable.
howevrer, as i said, different manufacturers, diffrent cooling solutions.
powecolor: http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-4850-2-gb-gddr3-review/ look at the picture.

[RunningSkittle]

thats just a standard zalman cooler, not anywhere near as good as the accelero, while being more expensive.

clean the chips? a little rubbing alcohol or everclear and some qtips are all you need.

perfect mounting? its a lot easier than installing a cpu HSF. just a couple of screws and a backplate.

the entire installation process takes about 5 minutes.

[Sharktooth]

5 mins for an experienced user. think like a newbie that doesnt know where to start or does not want to read the instructions.
most ppl wants to buy something that just works and dont want to mess with extra cooling or extra stuff to do.

[Shinigami-Sama]

clean the chips? a little rubbing alcohol or everclear and some qtips are all you need.

to bad you can't get either of those up here in Canada
or at least in BC...

[dat720]

does not want to read the instructions.

If you don't know what you are doing yet refuse to read instructions then you need to be slapped!

Anyone else notice this thread has strayed from reccomendations of a Graphics card to which cooler is better?

[Sharktooth]

i think we found a candidate video card, the discussion moved to what are the possible drawbacks of THAT videocard (high working temps) and what are the potential solutions.
so i think we're still on topic since the initial poster is probably interested in those info since he have to buy a videocard.
to answer another question: yes, the modern videocards (matching your criterias) need external power. a 600W PSU or bigger (depending on the remaining HW) is recommended.

[RunningSkittle]

If you cant find rubbing alcohol (highly unlikely... its available in every drug store) then you can also use acetone (nail polish remover).

If a person is too lazy to even read the instructions, what makes you think they will even install the video card correctly? They might as well buy a dell.

600w? where the hell did you get that number from? A moderate 500w PSU with a good 12v rail can easily power highend video cards. Hell even the old 1950xt uses about 20w more than the 4850.

[Sharktooth]

500 or 600W PSU cost almost the same. for safety sake 600W is ok.
also cheap PSUs may output lower currents.

[Sharktooth]

another 4850 card with a custom cooling solution (zalman): http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/toxic_hd4850/
comes factory overclocked with some room for even more overclocking. much lower temps (35-38 idle and 60-64C under heavy load when overclocked at its limits @ room temp of 27C) and noise thanks to the custom cooling, performance comparable to higher priced cards (4870...) and only 25$ more than the standard 4850.
it seems quite good to me for a $215 card. plus it comes with cyberlink (powerdvd and dvdsuite) and futuremark (3d mark vantage) softwares.

[RunningSkittle]

once again nothing special. just a plain vanilla zalman cooler. No where near as effective as the accelero S1, while still managing to be more expensive. This is a common trend with zalman products.

[Sharktooth]

it's enough to keep it cool at acceptable levels and it costs only 25$ more and you dont have to do anything or buy anything else.

[RunningSkittle]

if your that lazy, why not just buy a dell :|

[Sharktooth]

simple reason: dell may not have the desired configuration or hardware.
also, at least here, removing the stock cooler means loosing the warranty

[Sharktooth]

another candidate: http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=21164&catid=2
not yet available though... and has dual slot cooling.

[Sharktooth]

another one: http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=21194&catid=2

[RunningSkittle]

That last one doesnt even come with ram sinks. Thats a big no-no

[slow4mula]

i'm kinda tired of everyone bitching about the 4xxx series running too hot and being inadequate as far as cooling goes. set the fans @ 35 or 40% and your temps will never go above 80-85C even while gaming.

i have two 4850's in crossfire and i have them both running @ 40% fan speed and they idle at 50C and max out at 81-82C while gaming all at a very acceptable noise level. i don't even use a case and the noise doesn't bother me at all at anything below 40% fan speed.

i've never been much for warranties on anything i have ever owned, but to toss a lifetime warranty on your video cards and in to most cases negate the advantage of having a single slot cooler design seems asinine to me...to each their own...and this is from someone that has put plenty of cpu heatsinks on video cards over the years...

the stock cooling solution for these cards is ADEQUATE. if you want a silent pc then by all means buy a non reference model or install a 3rd party heatsink and void the warranty, but just QUIT BITCHING PLEASE! my only complaint is they should have set the stock percentage @ 35/40% and not 13% which was what the reference drivers/firmware specified.

[Sharktooth]

i have it at about 40% too (38)... i think it's the sweet spot.