Encode DVDs to h264 with Recode - Ideal settings?

[gnutellafan]

I want to use Nero's Recode to encode my DVD's to H264. My goals are:

1)Maintain maximum quality - I want the video to look as much like the original as possible displayed on large screen at high resolution

2)Smallest size - I want to balance #1 with size in mind

What are the ideal settings?

Thank you

[poisondeathray]

#1 and #2 are polar opposites given the same source

There is no ideal setting because it is a subjective assessment. What is "good enough" for me might look horrible for you. Do you like the color green or the color blue better? You get the idea...Just try a few settings out and see if it's good enough for you.

If size is more important, use a 2-pass encode and set size. If quality is more important, use constant quality mode at a certain level that you're happy with.

Cheers

[Blue_MiSfit]

Also, consider not using Recode :)

x264 is a vastly superior H.264 / AVC codec, and deserves at least a cursory glance.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade or insist "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!!!!" - but there are other, higher quality, free options out there :)

~MiSfit

[gnutellafan]

I understand that 1 & 2 are opposite eachother. However, if I just said #1, someone would tell me to use a lossless setting which would result in a file larger then the 1 I started with, which would defeat the point. The end file needs to be significantly smaller or there is no sense taking the time to do the compression.

I am hoping that the people here that have a lot more expertise can help me choose the best way to do this.

I am not opposed to using x264. But I do want a simple interface, and I already own recode.

Does anyone have some helpful feedback?

[Sharktooth]

how much smaller, half, less?
coz if you have more or less a size limit in mind, you cant think at a final quality and vice versa.

[Dark Shikari]

I am not opposed to using x264. But I do want a simple interface, and I already own recode.Try Ripbot264 or Handbrake or AutoMKV. MeGUI is more versatile but more complicated.

[Sharktooth]

and x264 is really much better than recode... http://mirror05.x264.nl/Dark/website/compare.html
Right, MeGUI is more complicated but really more versatile and customizable. it only lacks batch encoding.
so if you're looking for extra simplicity, dont look at MeGUI (until we fix the OneClickEncoder), but if you want to tweak the hell out then MeGUI is for you.

[gnutellafan]

how much smaller, half, less?
coz if you have more or less a size limit in mind, you cant think at a final quality and vice versa.


I don't have a hard limit in mind, but I would say if I can't get to ~1/2ish then I'm not sure its worth the time... Especially if there is a significant quality loss. I am ok with using what ever will give the best results, though the more setting required, the more handholding I would need - Im not even sure what the best settings to use with recode would be...

[Sharktooth]

you have an hard limit... more or less half the size.
use CQ (constant quant or CRF if using x264) from 18 to 22 and choose the encode you like more (check the filesize too).
Rise the encoder settings if you need a slightly smaller filesize but it will require more time to encode. Lower them for the opposite effect ...

[gnutellafan]

Sharktooth, thank you for the response.

Yes, yes, I know, only I can say for sure, but can someone give me a sense of what this type of compression will look like? Is half the size of the original mpeg2 file going to look "bad" on a big screen high def tv? Should I being going for more compressions?

[toytown]

Yes, yes, I know, only I can say for sure, but can someone give me a sense of what this type of compression will look like? Is half the size of the original mpeg2 file going to look "bad" on a big screen high def tv? Should I being going for more compressions?

Why not just try it for yourself? Simply use the trim setting in recode and just encode a 1 min segment with the settings you want and see what the quality looks like. It shouldnt take more than 5 mins to do.

[diogen]

I think ~1GB/hour (or two 2h movies per SL DVD) is something that you can do without sacrificing quality.
Unless of course you take separate frames, blow them up and start looking with mouseover...

(Insert standard caveats here...)

Diogen.

[Blue_MiSfit]

I think halving the size of most DVDs using x264 is quite easy while remaining transparent, in most cases. I regularly do the equivalent with H.264 / VC-1 BluRay discs.

CRF mode will be the way to do it, for sure. Try CRF20 for an average title, and see how you like the quality. If it's not enough, try CRF18 :)

~MiSfit

[dexx]

A related question; If i have a standard dvd with content approx 7GB in size, a typical divx/xvid conversion will result in a 700mb file with adequate quality. Aiming for the same quality, and using optimal settings, how big would an x264 file be?

[Dark Shikari]

A related question; If i have a standard dvd with content approx 7GB in size, a typical divx/xvid conversion will result in a 700mb file with adequate quality. Aiming for the same quality, and using optimal settings, how big would an x264 file be?I certainly wouldn't describe your average 700MB rip as "adequate" quality, especially not with Xvid or DivX, but if you're willing to lose that much quality in conversion I wouldn't be surprised if x264 can do similar at 30-40% lower bitrate.

[Sharktooth]

you have to try by yourself. every different movie/source will radically change the results. we cant help you further.

[gnutellafan]

Why not just try it for yourself? Simply use the trim setting in recode and just encode a 1 min segment with the settings you want and see what the quality looks like. It shouldnt take more than 5 mins to do.

Because a 1 min clip from 1 video doesn't mean much when applied to multiple videos at full length from multiple sources and there are people here that know A LOT more about this stuff then I ever will!

[gnutellafan]

What audio should I use? Can I use? AAC is NOT standard correct and there for will NOT play in most h264 playback devices? What about xbox 360?

[gizzin]

The xbox360 can play aac files but only 2 channel and with the low complexity setting. The ps3 however can play 5.1 lc encoded audio. I personally find depending on movie length and complexity that 1gig - 1.4gig will be good in most cases. I find encoding at 700mb isn't enough. Also when I encode stuff, I use HQ slower, or slowest. I did saving private ryan which is one of the harder things to encode, and I did it with the filesize of 1.4gig, and it hard to tell the difference between the original and x264 file. Except in grainy and darker areas. I find x264 seems to have problems with grain...turns it into blocks. Even if you were to encode movies at 700mb they are still are high quality and better than xvid. Usually at that size the noticeable problem is usually around the face it tends to blur detail, noise around the head. And x264 tends not to block as much in dark scenes compared to xvid.

[Sharktooth]

x264 has no longer problems with grain. ensure to use a subme level of 6 or more, b-rdo, trellis 2 and have a psy-rdo enabled x264 build (like the one that comes with megui).
with that settings (and psy-rdo) grain is a problem of the past.
also, try the new Megui presets, expecially Unrestricted 2pass (if you liked HQ-slower/slowest).

[Blue_MiSfit]

Yeah - 700mb scene rips are laughably bad most of the time. If you're still living in 2001 where CD-Rs were cheap storage then I guess that's a reasonable bitrate target... :rolleyes:

~MiSfit

[Sharktooth]

it depends on the source... i have made 500mb backups that look perfect and also wasted time to do 1gb backups that were ugly.

[gnutellafan]

The xbox360 can play aac files but only 2 channel and with the low complexity setting. The ps3 however can play 5.1 lc encoded audio.

So is it ok to use AAC with h264? Will standard blu-ray players play the mix? I have a 360, so maybe AAC is not the best choice for me. What offers comparable compression but is compliant?

[Sharktooth]

blu-ray standard do not include AAC.
the x360 is not a blu-ray player but it supports h.264 + 2.0 AAC.
Use or keep the original ac3 audio when possible.

[gnutellafan]

Use or keep the original ac3 audio when possible.

I am not nearly as familiar with the ac3 compression. It significantly larger then most codecs (ie mp3 or aac ~128 VBR) isnt it? Most people cannot perceive the difference between aac vbr @~128 and original CD sources, so what is the benefit of ac3? Are there other codecs that are part of the blu-ray standards?

[Sharktooth]

receivers... and the fact it is compatible with blu-ray.

[gizzin]

Yes Ac3 is larger than aac and mp3. The benefits would be that it is more compatible. And the filesize different really isn't that significant if you think about it. I use aac I find it adequate, quality seems pretty good in my opinion. And aac also supports multichannel audio. But I don't think its that much better than mp3. Sharktooth, I also tried the 2pass unrestricted seems about the same quality as slower/slowest. Meaning I can't really tell the difference. And the grainy problematic areas have improved. Not nearly as many blocks.

[Sharktooth]

hope it's enough. if you want more grain retention try --psy-rd with a value greater than 1 in the custom commandline.

[gnutellafan]

Ok, Ive been searching but can not find an easy guide for Megui, for working with already ripped DVD files. More GUI in the megui would be very helpful for people like me.

[Sharktooth]

there's a sticky in the MPEG-4 Encoder GUIs forum. there is also a wiki. you didnt search at all.

[gnutellafan]

there's a sticky in the MPEG-4 Encoder GUIs forum. there is also a wiki. you didnt search at all.

Yeah, I actually saw those. I was hoping there was something a bit more straight forward. I think its becoming clear h264 is just not for me yet. The tools just have not matured to the point were you don't have to spend hours figuring out how to use and optimize them... oh well, it will get there in time.

[Dark Shikari]

Yeah, I actually saw those. I was hoping there was something a bit more straight forward. I think its becoming clear h264 is just not for me yet. The tools just have not matured to the point were you don't have to spend hours figuring out how to use and optimize them... oh well, it will get there in time.Hours? I didn't know it took that long to click the mouse a dozen times. There are a number of very simple tools... try Handbrake or Ripbot264.

[gizzin]

Megui, Is a real simple tool to use, and in my opinion is highly effective. Its not that hard once you get use to it, The questions your ask seem like you smart. anyways heres a good guide, http://www.digital-digest.com/articles/MeGUI_H.264_Conversion_Guide_page1.html

[Sharktooth]

megui is made for the person that knows what he's doing or just wants to learn.
there are other GUIs more newbie friendly.
at least, that's how i see it at this point.

[Tae]

I was in your boat a few years ago and started with Nero Recode serving them up to an XBMC. I found that for DVD rips, 2.2 to 2.5 Mbps in recode would give me an acceptable output to my HDTV from what I recall. But that is very general, the source quality varies a lot in DVD so I did recode the same stuff sometimes till I was happy. I also just expanded my HDD space so file size would remain a secondary concern. I mean I would rather just pop in my DVD if quality is low, I want my encodes to look close to what they would if I popped in the DVD. What I have learned the hard way with Recode, was the better profiles in Recode are not fully compatible with a lot of devices, especially if you have a wireless network and want to stream.

Over time I started using AutoGK (using 70% to 100% quality, file size is secondary to me) and GK (resizing to maintain a high bits per pixel for my desired file size). AGK was for mostly movie encodes, GK for TV Series or the movies that AGK had trouble with. I am now using Megui and x264 fairly exclusively and since the PS3 cannot handle any of my Recode encodes, I am redoing a lot of stuff. I am strictly using the DXVA profiles because of this, hopefully when I move on to a different media hub these files will remain compatible. I eventually see myself moving to a stable XBMC on a windows box(maybe linux) when I upgrade my media server to a better video card.

Also I always keep the AC3 file, my sound system is a 5.1 system and I am happy with it, I won't be upgrading to 7.1 anytime soon. Just about anything can play AC3 and it sounds good enough for me. So I end up not using Autoencode at all in MeGui. I just encode the video to an x264 mp4 and mux it with the AC3 file myself using mkvmerge. Then I use Mkvtovob because the PS3 streams vobs flawlessly.

I found this to me the most helpful MeGui guide...
http://forum.videohelp.com/topic333634.html

Encoding DVD's is pretty straight forward. But I now put much of the work in how I rip them to the HDD. I just rip the movie or TV episode by themselves, it makes using the Gui's much easier. If you are attempting to do Blu Ray or HD DVD, well that is the wild west right now and I would hate to try to be learning that now without all the background I have had the last few years with DVD.

Good luck. There is a lot to learn, but it is worth it. Recode is a fine tool, but as other have said, the free tools are better once you learn enough to get by. That is all I did, I still don't understand even half of what I read on this forum, but my encodes look great to me.

[dbone1026]

gnutellafan - Use Ripbot or Xvid4PSP (I prefer Ripbot but Xvid4PSP has more encoding options). If you can rip DVDs to your HDD, you can use these programs. It is great that with these forums you can get a lot of information. Like many people have responded though, what is "ideal" or "quality" is based on personal preferences. It never hurts to try out different settings yourself to determine what works best for you, that is what most people who are encoding their files have done...

[Sharktooth]

at the end it's a matter of trial and error. after several encodings and learning time, after watching the source material you will be able to say, "lets do this at this quant (or CRF) or bitrate" and it will be ok.