Lossless DVD -> avi?

[hazel-ra]

I'm working on a project using Avisynth to mix together avi files. I have the data from DVDs. I use DVDdecryptor to get VOBs from DVDs, and then I use AutoGK set on 100% to convert the VOBs to avis.

Sometimes when I look at the results they don't seem that good -- that the actual DVD playback is better than the avi. What I'm asking is if there's a way to get as much data as is in the vobs to the avi.

I look at an example VOB, say it's 156 MB. Then, my AutoGK output is 35 MB, even at 100%. It seems to me there's some video compression going on -- that can't all be subtitles and other audio tracks, can it? I would think that 100% quality would leave a file close to the size of the original VOBs, minus say 10-15 MB for subtitles and soundtracks.

I'm open to other converters and other formats to get more data into my editing files.

I've looked over the FAQs and stickies, and I didn't see this addresses anywhere, so I think it's okay for me to post this here.

I'm aware of the rule "Don't ask what's *best*". I don't believe that I am -- I am just asking for a lossless way to get DVD data to an editable format, like avis.

[fibbingbear]

When you have a VOB, I believe it's in an MPEG2 format. You can use a program like DGIndex to have it be readable by Avisynth. That way you can work with "lossless DVD rips" until you have the finished product.

And yes, 35 meg final output is DEFINITELY not right. If you tried to convert it to an AVI it should be either about the same size (if the algorithm used is mpeg2) or should be way way way larger (a lossless codec like Huffyuv won't realize it's already been compressed and can't use the same compression techniques).

[hazel-ra]

When you have a VOB, I believe it's in an MPEG2 format. You can use a program like DGIndex to have it be readable by Avisynth. That way you can work with "lossless DVD rips" until you have the finished product.

And yes, 35 meg final output is DEFINITELY not right. If you tried to convert it to an AVI it should be either about the same size (if the algorithm used is mpeg2) or should be way way way larger (a lossless codec like Huffyuv won't realize it's already been compressed and can't use the same compression techniques).

Thanks, fibbing. Are you familiar with Autogk? I'm not sure if I have a setting wrong, or it just is designed to create compressed video by default.

[hazel-ra]

OK, I did a little looking, and it seems like the only codecs that AutoGK offers are Xvid and Divx. So, that's where the compression is coming in.

Otherwise, it looks like I will be using DGIndex to make a lossless avi. Is there a tutorial on how to do this? The selling point on AutoGK is that is would crop the image and do the audio sync'ing automatically. Is this a manual process in DGIndex?

[Dark Shikari]

OK, I did a little looking, and it seems like the only codecs that AutoGK offers are Xvid and Divx. So, that's where the compression is coming in.

Otherwise, it looks like I will be using DGIndex to make a lossless avi. Is there a tutorial on how to do this? The selling point on AutoGK is that is would crop the image and do the audio sync'ing automatically. Is this a manual process in DGIndex?If you don't want them recompressed, why are you converting to AVI?

[jeffy]

1) MPEG-2 used on DVDs is a lossy format
Ref.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2

2) AutoGK won't allow to select a different codec other than Xvid or Divx

3) You may try CTRL+F9 in AutoGK and check "Force sharp MPEG matrix for XVID", then choose Xvid as your output format, 100% quality again, for a comparison

4) What do you want to do with the files? If you just want to 'mix together avi files' (I suppose the mentioned video files) then get to know DGIndex, download in the first post here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1039837#post1039837
and join them in AviSynth - AlignedSplice
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Splice

You will need the AudioDub function as well:
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/AudioDub

Reference for loading the files (audio and video):
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/FAQ_loading_clips

5) A lossless avi file will be huge...

[CWR03]

I use AutoGK set on 100% to convert the VOBs to avis.
Even at 100% AutoGK's output isn't lossless. MPEG-4 (Xvid and DivX) are lossy codecs, and your output will always look worse than the input.

There are other converters and codecs that together can do a much better job than AutoGK, but you will always lose some quality. It comes down to what is an acceptable loss.

[Blue_MiSfit]

If you just want to literally copy the data from the VOBs into a single container format you can use DGIndex to demux the MPEG-2 video from the VOBs into a single M2V file. You can then extract the audio track(s) you want - Dolby Digital, MP2 or whatever.

Finally, you can use a program like MKVToolNix to mux a Matroska (MKV) file containing the video and audio tracks.

~MiSfit

[dat720]

An example of XVID @ high bitrate compared to DVD

1.4gb, 656 x 284, XVID (http://lh5.ggpht.com/bircoe/SHAD6ppSq6I/AAAAAAAABWA/yhs885lHZX4/T2%20XVID.png)

Orignal DVD Decrypted ISO is 6.4gb Main Movie and Audio Track Only (Black borders were cropped with paint.net) (http://lh6.ggpht.com/bircoe/SHAD59SyYKI/AAAAAAAABVw/YTopSJ7LnzM/T2%20DVD.png)

HD XVID and HD DVD comparison also in my album Here (http://picasaweb.google.com.au/bircoe/Terminator2HDComparison)

Hmmm Strange pictures seem to have disappeared.
Picasa Web Albums doesn't seem to want to cooperate with the [IMG] tag....

[hazel-ra]

If you don't want them recompressed, why are you converting to AVI?

Well, chalk it up to ignorance. I don't really know my stuff here; I was just doing what I could with the tools I had available. AutoGK was the easiest way for me to get something usable from a DVD. I didn't know any other way.

Anyways, I was using VirtualDub and AviSynth to edit the video, and I think those programs can only handle avis.

If there are other, better ways, I'm all ears!

[hazel-ra]

1) MPEG-2 used on DVDs is a lossy format
Ref.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2

That's fine; I just don't want to lose any more quality when I get it into a usable format!

2) AutoGK won't allow to select a different codec other than Xvid or Divx

Nuts :(

3) You may try CTRL+F9 in AutoGK and check "Force sharp MPEG matrix for XVID", then choose Xvid as your output format, 100% quality again, for a comparison

I'll give it a shot.

4) What do you want to do with the files? If you just want to 'mix together avi files' (I suppose the mentioned video files) then get to know DGIndex, download in the first post here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1039837#post1039837
and join them in AviSynth - AlignedSplice
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Splice I'm making a mash-up project -- basically a re-edit of existing footage. It's an art project, so I'd like it to be as high a quality as possible.

5) A lossless avi file will be huge...That's good; I just need the for the source media. For storage, I'll just keep my vobs, and the avisynth scripts.

[hazel-ra]

There are other converters and codecs that together can do a much better job than AutoGK, but you will always lose some quality. It comes down to what is an acceptable loss.

I'd like to lose as little as possible. This is for an art project. What are some of those other ways? Are they as easy to use as AutoGK? I hope not to spend a lot of time correcting audio syncs!

Also, I'm using Avisynth. Do the other ways involve avis, or another video format?

[dat720]

If you don't want to re compress why don't you just demux the DVD to a mpg stream? that will yield the best quality results, keep in mind the files will be exact same size as on the DVD.

You could use a mencoder front end and set it to constant quality with a quant value of 1, this would give a very large avi at very high quality... just another suggestion.

[hazel-ra]

If you don't want to re compress why don't you just demux the DVD to a mpg stream? that will yield the best quality results, keep in mind the files will be exact same size as on the DVD.

That might work, but I'm using VirtualDub and Avisynth, which only work with avi.

Can you point me to a tutorial or FAQ on how to do that?

You could use a mencoder front end and set it to constant quality with a quant value of 1, this would give a very large avi at very high quality... just another suggestion.

That sounds like the best route. Any tutorial for that?

[Blue_MiSfit]

As my previous post said, use DGIndex to demux the video and audio, and then use an MPEG muxer (maybe good old TMPGEnc) to make an MPG

[dat720]

Sorry missed that.... *nods* just read it :)

[dat720]

That sounds like the best route. Any tutorial for that?

Try This (http://mewiki.project357.com/wiki/Main_Page)

Keep in mind converting to AVI will not be lossless the only lossless method is to demux the video and audio streams from the VOB's and mux them to a MPG container, you will end up with the exact same quality as the original.

This command leaves me with a very high quality avi, crop value's have to be determined before using this, the quant value in this example is 2, and it stream copies the audio, so no loss in audio quality.

d:\vidtools\mplayer\mencoder.exe dvd://# -dvd-device i: -ovc xvid -xvidencopts fixed_quant=2:threads=2:max_bframes=0:vhq=0:me_quality=6:hq_ac:trellis -alang en -oac copy -channels 6 -o out.avi -vf harddup,crop=704:352:8:64


Alternatively you could use a 2 pass encode with a highbitrate like 2 or 3000 kbps which would give very good results.

If mencoder is over your head, you could dump the dvd to a iso using something like dvdshrink, just taking the main movie and stripping all audio streams you don't want, then open the iso in avidemux, which has a very nice point and click interface.

[hazel-ra]

Dat, Blue, everyone else, thanks for your great advice! I'll play around with DGIndex and Mencoder; hopefully I'll be able to figure them out! :)

[Blue_MiSfit]

:) any time!