Standalone compatibility - again

[GrofLuigi]

Hi,

I need to encode some material for a project (no copyright issues - our own cam footage) to be distributed for PREVIEW (no extreme quality is needed, but moderate one doesn't hurt) to fairly large target audience, which is assumed to be computer- and home theater-illiterate (in lack of a better word).

So, to achieve maximum compatibility, I opted for XVID (Koepi's build) and researched the options for SAP compatibility.

So far, I'm using: AS@L5 profile; H.263 quantization; 1 B-VOP; square pixels; FourCC: DX50.

Features turned off are: Quarter Pixel; GMC; Packed Bitstream.

I have question about how the options below affect SAP compatibility (i.e. is there ANY known SAP that chokes on them):

Chroma Optimizer (in zone options); Use VHQ for bframes; Use Chroma Motion; Turbo; Trellis.

Should I use them?

I read many threads, but I could not find any definitive info on the last few options regarding SAP compatibility. Also, if anyone has some recommendation (new info?) on the previous options above, please advise.

The assumption is that largest percent of SAPs used will be cheap ones. Computer compatibility is implied, i.e. they will have some codec/player installed that will be able to handle these settings (as DX50). Please don't suggest mpeg or any other container, they want AVI. Audio will be MP3 CBR.

Thank you. :thanks:

GL

[Ranguvar]

None of those options should impact decoding; they all are encode-only.

But I would not use the Chroma Optimizer in Zones; it has been broken for quite a while.

If you want to increase compatibility a tiny bit more, use the Home Theater profile. It restricts a few things a tiny bit more. But it shouldn't make much of a difference. I'm just saying it since you want standalone quality so much you're willing to use CBR audio (which is especially criminal for movies, which have enough quiet speech parts that VBR helps a ton), 1 b-frame only, and the H.263 matrix.

[GrofLuigi]

None of those options should impact decoding; they all are encode-only.
You're referring to the third set of options in my post, the 'questionable' ones, right?

Because I still want to squeeze some improvement in quality, however tiny it is - so I'll uncheck Turbo.

But I would not use the Chroma Optimizer in Zones; it has been broken for quite a while.

If you want to increase compatibility a tiny bit more, use the Home Theater profile. It restricts a few things a tiny bit more. But it shouldn't make much of a difference. I'm just saying it since you want standalone quality so much you're willing to use CBR audio (which is especially criminal for movies, which have enough quiet speech parts that VBR helps a ton), 1 b-frame only, and the H.263 matrix.

OK, Chroma Optimizer is out; Home (that's the name of the preset I see, without 'theater') is in. :)

About CBR audio: as much as I would like to have VBR audio, I own one STP that desyncs audio on anything but CBR. So I expect more people to have them.

:thanks:

GL

[Ranguvar]

You're referring to the third set of options in my post, the 'questionable' ones, right?

Because I still want to squeeze some improvement in quality, however tiny it is - so I'll uncheck Turbo.Yep.

OK, Chroma Optimizer is out; Home (that's the name of the preset I see, without 'theater') is in. :)I recommend using Xvid 1.2.-127 with VAQ, Koepi's build. The fact that your preset does not say Home Theatre clued me in. And if you use a VAQ Xvid, make sure to enable Adaptive Quantization. http://www.koepi.info/

[kandrey89]

It's OK to use 2 consecutive B-VOP frames.

[Ranguvar]

It's OK to use 2 consecutive B-VOP frames.
Some players hate them, some work.

[henryho_hk]

Is Chroma Optimizer broken? OMG ~~~

[kandrey89]

Some players hate them, some work.

Most normal players play them well. others must be kooks.

Also, Chroma is supposedly broken in zones, not on the whole video if applied, right?

[raeltheimperialaerosolkid]

Some players hate them, some work.

In my personal experience, I've never heard of TV SAP not supporting 2 BVop.
Grof, use the "home" profile in the latest Koepi build and you will sleep smoothly because there will be no problems.
That profile will prevent you from enabling options that may harm the compatibility. The options that you will still be able to change are up to your preference.

[laserfan]

It's OK to use 2 consecutive B-VOP frames.With at least my Sigma Designs players this is true (2 B-VOPs are OK) but you have to have "Packed Bitstream" checked also.

[GrofLuigi]

Thank you all for the answers.

Remember, my goal is to find the lowest common denominator, so if a feature works on 1000 models, but doesn't on 1, it' out. :)

GL

[plugh]

Is Chroma Optimizer broken? OMG ~~~
Yeah, when I pointed out (in that thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=136324)) what the code was doing, the consensus was that it was broke.

The avisynth plugin (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1120914#post1120914) that gzarkadas wrote to compare what xvid does vs what was probably intended was kinda cool, and handy if you really want the 'optimizer'.

[7ekno]

Also worth keeping in mind your AVI muxing settings ...

I have come across stand-alone units that won't play with Rec lists st, nor with opendml set ...

The best generic standalone settings I have found (keep in mind the standalone settings can interfere with previewing in Windows and Seeking in PC playback) are (for AVImux-GUI):

OPENDML 0
LEGACY 0
RECLISTS 0
FRAMES 3
AUDIO INTERLEAVE 3 FR

Tek

[GrofLuigi]

Sorry for the late reply, I never saw 7ekno's post.

As for interleaving, I use VirtualDub's (or Mod's) defaults and never had a problem. Should I be worried about that too?

GL