DXVA compatibility for software players thread

[tetsuo55]

This is a work in progress:

This is a thread about all the problems regarding playback of files with DXVA enabled, results from the discussion here regarding encoding settings should be discussed here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=132924).

Section 1: DXVA implementations:
Section 2: Software players supporing DXVA
Section 3: Videocards supporting DXVA
Section 4: Getting DXVA to work
Section 5: Sample file's for testing purposes

Section 1: DXVA implementations

There are basically 2 kinds of DXVA:
1) Hardware assisted decoding, the videocard offloads some parts of the decoding process from the software decoder, this is very complex to code and you basically need help from videocard developers to be able to include this in your program.
2) Full bitstream decoding, the videocard does everything, the player only has to feed the video stream to the videocard, pretty simple and straightforward, you can assume that this is the way forward for all videocards and software-players

Section 2: Software players supporing DXVA

1) PowerDVD ultra, this program supports both types of DXVA and has support for all codecs (WMV9.MPEG2,VC1,H264)
2) WinDVD, this program supports both types of DXVA and has support for all codecs (WMV9.MPEG2,VC1,H264)
3) MPC-HC, this program supports only the 2nd type, full bitstream decoding, and does so for all codecs (WMV9.MPEG2,VC1,H264), however it decodes WMV9 externally with a combined 1+2 method, also this is the only program that is free and open-source

Section 3: Videocards supporting DXVA
ATI
Bitstream:

All cards starting with HD

Assisted (supported codecs are behind the card's name):


NVIDIA
Bitstream:

Assisted (supported codecs are behind the card's name):

Section 4: Getting DXVA to workto be done
Section 5: Sample file's for testing purposesto be done

There is a special MPC build compiled only for testing videocard abilities, Warning this player can and will crash your computer so keep this in mind when testing, get it here (http://www.etud.insa-toulouse.fr/~mvelten/bordel/mpc-hc/mplayerc_r518_TEST.zip)

I need help with the following:
* Links to sample files. For each file technical details (levels, max ref frames, basically the exact encoding settings+output from avinaptic or a similar program) should be included.
* A list of graphics card models that are (somewhat) compatible. If a card has some limitations with regard to the type of files that it supports, then that info should also be included. to test your videocard use the following program: http://bluesky23.hp.infoseek.co.jp/index.html#DXVAChecker
* For each sample file we need to keep a list of testresults of which cards are able to play it and which are not.

[MarcioAB]

nVidia 8600 GTS (with up to date driver) here and the main point is the Ref Frames>4 limitation. Anything else I tried so far works fine.
To test, I just pick ANY source (from low res to hi res) and re-encode using x264 varying any parms in x264. If I respect the max Ref Frames = 4 anything else works.
By work I mean, play very nice on MPC-HomeCinema with DXVA turned on and CPU usage stays on 2% or less

Because the nVidia driver is Unified, maybe this Ref Frames limitation could be true for all nVidia cards that has DXVA capability.

Any way, if this is a limitation, may we need to live with that and ask everybody else to encode respecting max Ref frames = 4.
By the way, MeGUI is profile oriented and there are several profiles with came ready to use for DXVA and all of them already respect the max Ref Frames = 4.

[MatMaul]

nVidia 8600 GTS (with up to date driver) here and the main point is the Ref Frames>4 limitation.
have you tried those files with the cyberlink decoder ? It is weird to be limited by a specific number of frames and not by a width*height*nb_ref value.

I'm looking for a sample which is known to have problems with nvidia (macroblocks for example) and the mpc decoder but works fine with cyberlink decoder.

[tetsuo55]

MarcioAB, please use this program and paste the results in a new post

http://bluesky23.hp.infoseek.co.jp/index.html#DXVAChecker

[Kado]

@MatMaul
This video (http://rapidshare.com/files/113536801/Suzumiya_Haruhi_no_Yuuutsu_-_C4_-_Special_Ending_-__Hitsuji__e569a2b7_.mkv.html) opens with cyberlink decoder(dxva) but does not open with mpc internal using dxva.
Also check the videos from this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1139516#post1139516), for me only "x3_sample.mkv" plays without video corruption.
Vista SP1 + EVR pre-SP1 + mpc rev 518 + 9800gtx 175.63.

[MatMaul]

Also check the videos from this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1139516#post1139516), for me only "x3_sample.mkv" plays without video corruption.
no prob with cyberlink with those 3 mkvs ?

[Kado]

None. Just rechecked them.

[tetsuo55]

Kado and Matmaul
please use this program and paste the results in a new post

http://bluesky23.hp.infoseek.co.jp/i...ml#DXVAChecker

don't forget that PowerDVD has assisted DXVA too, which could be working around the problems with those file's

[rack04]

Kado and Matmaul
please use this program and paste the results in a new post

http://bluesky23.hp.infoseek.co.jp/i...ml#DXVAChecker

don't forget that PowerDVD has assisted DXVA too, which could be working around the problems with those file's

Program does not work for me. I wonder if it's because I'm running XP SP3?

[Casimir666]

3) MPC-HC, this program supports only the 2nd type, full bitstream decoding, and does so for all codecs (WMV9.MPEG2,VC1,H264), however it decodes WMV9 externally with a combined 1+2 method, also this is the only program that is free and open-source
To be accurate, mpc decode only VC1 and H264 with DXVA (not Mpeg2 and WM9) ;)

[Kado]

@tetsuo55
I just use the cyberlink's decoder filter and the profile is "Bitstream". I also have another file that does not play with mpc internal dxva but goes fine with cyberlink's filter using dxva but is too large to put online, it has high bitrate and the cpu consumption is about 2 to 5% meaning that the gpu is decoding everything.
http://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/dxva_mpc.jpg

[Kado]

@casimir666
Can you compile a recent version of MPCVideoDec.ax? :thanks:

[Casimir666]

@casimir666
Can you compile a recent version of MPCVideoDec.ax? :thanks:

Here it is
http://www.zshare.net/download/1237146982e56028/

[MarcioAB]

MarcioAB, please use this program and paste the results in a new post

http://bluesky23.hp.infoseek.co.jp/index.html#DXVAChecker

NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GTS
ModeMPEG2_C: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG2_D: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_IDCT: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeWMV9_IDCT: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_MoComp: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeWMV9_MoComp: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_PostProc: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeWMV9_PostProc: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
1720AC81-9D1B-4F63-9A37-4A88483D0B87: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080

[gngn]

pretty much the same results here as MarcioAB. using MPC-HC r518 with internal filter and Nvidia 175.16 (latest) drivers on a 8600GTS, i can only play H264 with Ref Frames<=4 (edited, initialy said ">4" by mistake) , but without seeking.
everything above 4 will result in a black screen, with no playback, no matter the Output Renderer. if i put MPC from windowed into fullscreen or the other way around i get to see 1 frame perfectly displayed.

as for the cyberlink decoder, i dont get it. it will play alot more diferent files than the MPC-HC internal decoder, but not all. i have a file that the internal decoder playes , ReFrames : 3, but not the cyberlink decoder. sample (http://rapidshare.com/files/116651035/_Rumbel__Soul_Eater_-_01__H264-HD_-001.mkv)

NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GTS
ModeMPEG2_C: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG2_D: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG2_IDCT: DXVA2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_IDCT: DXVA1/2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeWMV9_IDCT: DXVA1/2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_MoComp: DXVA1/2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeWMV9_MoComp: DXVA1/2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_PostProc: DXVA1/2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeWMV9_PostProc: DXVA1/2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
1720AC81-9D1B-4F63-9A37-4A88483D0B87: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080

[MarcioAB]

@MatMaul
This video (http://rapidshare.com/files/113536801/Suzumiya_Haruhi_no_Yuuutsu_-_C4_-_Special_Ending_-__Hitsuji__e569a2b7_.mkv.html) opens with cyberlink decoder(dxva) but does not open with mpc internal using dxva.
Also check the videos from this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1139516#post1139516), for me only "x3_sample.mkv" plays without video corruption.
Vista SP1 + EVR pre-SP1 + mpc rev 518 + 9800gtx 175.63.

Before play this "Suzumiya" video I checked with MediaInfo that it was encode with 11 Ref Frames so my expectation was a black screen, but to my surprise it show up.
Checking CPU usage I see around 15%, so despite show up with DXVA on, it's clear it's not using hardware acceleration.

I will check the other videos on the suggested thread.

[MarcioAB]

i can only play H264 with Ref Frames>4 , but without seeking.

Hum, so you CAN play something with 5 Ref Frames or more. I can not.
Regard the seeking (well observed): I can not use seeking at all with DXVA on any of my encodes.

everything above 3 will result in a black screen, with no playback, no matter the Output Renderer.

Not follow that: 4 Ref Frames or more = black screen ?
Over here I have 5 Ref Frames or more = black screen.

i have a file that the internal decoder playes , ReFrames : 3, but not the cyberlink decoder.

I can play such 3 Ref Frames file in DXVA mode but not able to seek.

[MarcioAB]

Also check the videos from this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1139516#post1139516), for me only "x3_sample.mkv" plays without video corruption.
Vista SP1 + EVR pre-SP1 + mpc rev 518 + 9800gtx 175.63.

None of them work for me (the first 2 are 8 Ref Frames each and last 2 are 9 Ref Frames each).

[gngn]

oh, sorry for the mixup. i meant Ref Frames < 4 (i did copy-paste from your previous post :D). i dont have any at all with 4 to test so i can only say that those files with Ref Frames 2 or 3 will work on my XP with the DXVA of MPC-HC. i did reencode one file to Ref Frames=4 from originaly 8, and it works too (but only from the second attempt, at the first attempt after i played any other file it will show a black screen, maybe due to my lacking knowlegde of encoding? my reencode (http://rapidshare.com/files/116664289/_SS-Eclipse__Kyouran_Kazoku_Nikki_-_01__1280x720_h264_-001_RF_4.mkv)).
and like i said, the only file that the internal decoder of MPC-HC does open, but not the cyberlink decoder is that sample i pointed in my earlier post.

none of those 4 samples that Kado mentiones work for me. and with cyberlink i get a lot of frames lost

[MarcioAB]

Ok. And your 4 Ref Frames reencode works fine (as all the others, seek does not work ... still need to discover why).

Now Kado (with a 9800 GTX) said one of those 4 samples worked for him.

We are all using the same driver. I'm on XP, Kado on Vista, not sure what OS you are.

Considering OS is not filtering the bitstream for non-complaint (resulting the black screen), I think the driver is also not filtering and so the bitstream is going directly to the hardware resulting a "hardware black screen failure". It seems 8600 (NV12) hardware can not handle "5 Ref Frames or more" and 9800 (NV24) is "in-between" to handle. Maybe future 10800 (or whatever the name) will be able to handle consistently "5 Ref Frames or more". It seems support for hardware acceleration is a "work-in-progress" for nVidia. Any way, even with "4 Ref Frames or less" capable-hardware, it's already a pleasure to watch smooth 1080p H264 videos with MPC-HomeCinema.

[gngn]

well it's certain that 8600 cannot decode anything over 4 Ref Frames perfect. with the cyberlink decoder it will work in some cases (still huge frameloss), like the 5 samples that Kado provided, that have 8 resp 9 Ref Frames (the anime one 11), but those are not true 720p. and seeking does work with the cyberlink decoder.
is there a chance that some of the problems regarding the geforce 8000series will be worked out by some new nvidia drivers?

[tetsuo55]

as for the cyberlink decoder, i dont get it. it will play alot more diferent files than the MPC-HC internal decoder, but not all. i have a file that the internal decoder playes , ReFrames : 3, but not the cyberlink decoder. sample (http://rapidshare.com/files/116651035/_Rumbel__Soul_Eater_-_01__H264-HD_-001.mkv)



This file works for me too in MPC-HC.

Okay let me get this straight people. For NVIDIA:

MPC-HC DXVA will only work with 4 ref frames or less, seeking will only work with 3 ref frames or less

PowerDVD DXVA will work with any number of ref frames within the level limit and seeking always works when the video does


Assuming what i just said is correct, it has already been proven that powerDVd is also using bitstream so that means that MPC-HC either has a bug with the bitstream feed or that NVIDIA has a bug with Purevideo and PowerDVD has found a workaround, either way casimir will have to look into this then


Any way, if this is a limitation, may we need to live with that and ask everybody else to encode respecting max Ref frames = 4.


This is not a limitation its actualy a bug, all DXVA devices will play the streams within their level limits (ATI, XBOX360,PS3,PSP,Nokia,Standalone Bluray, HDDVD and h264 Players) it's only nvidia and it seems only with MPC-HC that is causing problems

[smok3]

so what card should i get? (currently nvidia 6600)
it must;
a. run easily at 2x(1920x1200) at least
b. have two independent outputs for connecting a 2nd screen (think LCD/plazma TV)
c. must fully support DXVA
d. is not ATI

[tetsuo55]

so what card should i get? (currently nvidia 6600)
it must;
a. run easily at 2x(1920x1200) at least
b. have two independent outputs for connecting a 2nd screen (think LCD/plazma TV)
c. must fully support DXVA
d. is not ATI

No videocard exists that can do what you want

The only option you have is 2 ATI cards, but they cannot be in crossfire mode

[Kado]

Before play this "Suzumiya" video I checked with MediaInfo that it was encode with 11 Ref Frames so my expectation was a black screen, but to my surprise it show up.
Checking CPU usage I see around 15%, so despite show up with DXVA on, it's clear it's not using hardware acceleration.

Now Kado (with a 9800 GTX) said one of those 4 samples worked for him.

There seems to be some confusion regarding my results, all the 4 sample files play using the internal mpc dxva decoder but only one displays a perfect picture, the other have corruption/blockiness, it is a bug for nvidia cards that casimir is aware of (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1139503#post1139503) and with cyberlink decoder they all play fine.
The Suzumiya Haruhi video does not play with internal dxva, the video is not even processed, only audio is played.
Now regarding that cyberlink is "not using hardware acceleration" with the Suzumiya Haruhi video:
http://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/sh_dxva.png
Those results were obtained with dxva checker v1.5.1.0, let the video running until the end, so it's obvious it's using dxva by looking at the results.
CPU is a Pentium D 930 @ 4.2GHz.

[MarcioAB]

MPC-HC DXVA will only work with 4 ref frames or less, seeking will only work with 3 ref frames or less

Well, not here. Even for 3 Ref Frames seeking is not working.

PowerDVD DXVA will work with any number of ref frames within the level limit and seeking always works when the video does.
Ok. Downloading Cyberlink PowerDVD trial to check on my rig.

This is not a limitation its actualy a bug ...
Ok. A MPC-HC bug.

Looking at the 11 Ref Frames "Suzumya" sample @Kado indicated, it's interesting to notice that MPC-HC somehow recognize it will not play with DXVA-on and so automatically plays it with DXVA-off. This does not happens with the other samples ( with Ref Frames between 5 and 9). On those cases (5-9 Ref Frames), it look likes that MPC-HC just throw the stream directly to the (non-capable) hardware, that will freeze (black screen). But now assuming it will work with Cyberlink PowerDVD (on so it's a bug of MPC-HC) ... need to check. (PowerDVD download is so sloooow).

[MarcioAB]

The Suzumiya Haruhi video does not play with internal dxva, the video is not even processed, only audio is played.Over here (8600 GTS) it is processed but "not using hardware accelaration" even despite MPC-HC is with DXVA-on.
(something like MPC-HC recognize it will not work using hardware and so automatically turned it off).

Now regarding that cyberlink is "not using hardware acceleration" with the Suzumiya Haruhi videoI did not try Suzumiya on Cyberlink PowerDVD because I do not have the trial version yet (downlooonging ... something wrong with that site).

Those results were obtained with dxva checker v1.5.1.0, let the video running until the end, so it's obvious it's using dxva by looking at the results.Not sure how to use DXVAChecker 1.5.0.1. Instructions seems to be in Japanese. I just double-click in the executable and see the written information.

[Kado]

Over here (8600 GTS) it is processed but "not using hardware accelaration" even despite MPC-HC is with DXVA-on.
(something like MPC-HC recognize it will not work using hardware and so automatically turned it off).

I disable the ffmpeg in the decoder to force videos to play via DXVA and if they are not dxva playable there's no image if external filters are blocked.

Not sure how to use DXVAChecker 1.5.0.1. Instructions seems to be in Japanese. I just double-click in the executable and see the written information.

Update to the latest version (v1.5.1.0), then open the executable and drag and drop a video over the window, then all filters capable of opening will show on the bottom of the window with some other info, if you can't see it stretch vertically the window. Also you can play the video using evr and vmr9, with or without dxva (if available), just right click on the part with the info on the filter you want to use then select the options, the modes in red are the dxva capable.
Example picture (http://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/dxva_checker.jpg)

I did not try Suzumiya on Cyberlink PowerDVD because I do not have the trial version yet (downlooonging ... something wrong with that site).

I'm not using the whole power dvd, just the decoder filter with mpc hc, to see the "statistics" and the "decimation" options hold CTRL then open the filter properties.
Again a pic. (http://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/pdvdf.jpg)

P.S.=> I really like to use images for exemplifying things :)

[pirlouy]

Nice thread.

I will be a bit offtopic, but I just want to clarify some things.
I have a 8800GT. I've tried DXVA offered by last build of winDVD (ok, some weeks ago) but it wasn't perfect, video was jerky.

DXVA from MPC-HC is not compatible with my video card (if I try to enable, it causes problems).

But what I want to say, it's the fact that DXVA is not an obligation. I see sometimes people ready to buy a videocard in order to have DXVA support but you should really buy a better processor. I use a E8400 (ok, overclocked to 4Hz) and I can watch all these videos (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1139516#post1139516) without problems with post-processing at maximum. Task monitor shows me less than 20% with theKMplayer.

So, in the future, if you want good image quality, I recommend getting a better processor instead of finding and buying a videocard DXVA compatible. DXVA is difficult to use (depends on ATI/nvidia/Cyberlink/etc. which are not very cooperative) and prevents from using post-processing and others filters.

[MarcioAB]

I think the seeking problem with DXVA on MPC-HC (at least with 8600 GTS) is related to hit the I-frames. To auto start after a seek, the seek must hit an I-frame. If I encode with all I-frames (of course) there is no seeking problem at all because any seek will fall over an I-frame.
If I encode with I-frame at each 5, 4, 3 or 2 frames I have less and less difficult to auto start after a seeking because I increase my chances the seek fall over an I-frame.

So, my question is: Is that possible that with DXVA-on, MPC-HC reposition an user seek as if the user have selected the seek over the next I-frame ?

I checked how seek performs without DXVA, in an encode with -scenecut 100 and -keyint 999: It starts far from the point where the seek was indicated. So in software controlled play, it seems some kind of this "move to next I-frame" do exist. We must have it now when the play is hardware controlled.

Thank you.

[MarcioAB]

DXVA from MPC-HC is not compatible with my video card (if I try to enable, it causes problems).Hum ... did you try encodes with max 4 Ref Frames ? (check with MediaInfo or anything else).

But what I want to say, it's the fact that DXVA is not an obligation.Sure. But I think the point is that for movies with high bandwidth (or low compression) full HD (1080p) H264 with lots of B-frames, with much scene change plus large subtitles etc ... will somehow hit the CPU. Of course a powerful CPU should handle that. I think primarily the graphics cards are for gaming but why not else to accelerate such movies.

.. and prevents from using post-processing and others filters.Yes, that is a good point. I also mention that for the new DivX H264 decoder that is coming.
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1139962&postcount=119

[GTPVHD]

Err no, hardware accelerated decoding has better deinterlacing and noise reduction, no matter how fast the CPU you have, you cannot do deinterlacing and noise reduction without frames being dropped. Nvidia achieved max points in HD HQV benchmark for HD decode quality. Post processing and other filters can never achieve the same image quality at real-time speeds as hardware decoding.

http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=559&Itemid=29&limit=1&limitstart=3

Even with the NVIDIA driver at its default setting it beats out the ATI board, mainly on account to superior performance when it comes to removing jaggies (with all three lines in HQV's test proving to be free of jaggies with the GeForce 8800 GT compared to just two with the Radeon HD 3870 X2) and more notably in the film resolution loss test, where the ATI card fails to deliver the required image quality with some artifacts appearing during the test. With noise reduction enabled in the NVIDIA driver, it does indeed score a perfect one hundred points in this test - A most impressive feat.

[Casimir666]

I think the seeking problem with DXVA on MPC-HC (at least with 8600 GTS) is related to hit the I-frames. To auto start after a seek, the seek must hit an I-frame. If I encode with all I-frames (of course) there is no seeking problem at all because any seek will fall over an I-frame.
If I encode with I-frame at each 5, 4, 3 or 2 frames I have less and less difficult to auto start after a seeking because I increase my chances the seek fall over an I-frame.

So, my question is: Is that possible that with DXVA-on, MPC-HC reposition an user seek as if the user have selected the seek over the next I-frame ?

I checked how seek performs without DXVA, in an encode with -scenecut 100 and -keyint 999: It starts far from the point where the seek was indicated. So in software controlled play, it seems some kind of this "move to next I-frame" do exist. We must have it now when the play is hardware controlled.

Thank you.

mpc-hc decoder seek to the I-Frame already. Seeking problem with nVidia came from an error return by the driver. This error arrive when too much data are send to the nVidia accelerator, this have been fixed in latest beta release on the other thread.

[ohropax]

mpc-hc decoder seek to the I-Frame already. Seeking problem with nVidia came from an error return by the driver. This error arrive when too much data are send to the nVidia accelerator, this have been fixed in latest beta release on the other thread.

I cannot confirm seeking being fixed in r518. I have a low-resolution ref=3 movie that cannot be seeked in MPC-HC but can in PowerDVD.

Is there a list of proper sample videos that we all can use for testing? If yes, could you (casimir666?) post links or update the initial posting accordingly? Or should everyone that is willing to assist only post results from his private collection instead?

A question in order to build up a representative collection of samples for all forum users: Is it problematic from a copyright point-of-view if we cut our files so that only the first seconds (containing a title-independent intro/trailer) remain? Often enough these snippets are enough to test whether playback works or not.

[arfster]

Err no, hardware accelerated decoding has better deinterlacing and noise reduction,....

Deinterlacing/denoising and all other postprocessing are done in the shaders after the decoding stage, it's a different process. You can do software decoding and still have hardware deinterlacing/denoising - just use a decoder that outputs NV12. For example, the ATI mpeg decoder, coreavc, ffdshow (remember and set bob output flag for deinterlacing).

[MarcioAB]

I cannot confirm seeking being fixed in r518.Me too. r518 or r518_TEST. Seek does not work with Ref Frames=1,2,3,4, with any number of B-frames, I turned off everything ... the only thing that touch the seek-issue is the I-frames. If the click is right over an I-frame it does work.

@Casimir666: When you say MPC-HC "seek to the I-frame already", can I think that despite MPC gets the real position where the user click, it will ignore that and reposition such click as if the user had really clicked on the next I-frame ?

Thank you.

[MarcioAB]

A question in order to build up a representative collection of samples for all forum users: Is it problematic from a copyright point-of-view if we cut our files so that only the first seconds (containing a title-independent intro/trailer) remain? Often enough these snippets are enough to test whether playback works or not.

Another idea, assuming anyone can re-encode, is just post the key parms to allow the creation of a "same/similar" sample but with local content. I think in this hardware-accelerated field the issue is more on the people's hardware differences that can not be reproduced.

[metalmania]

The perfect combination for DXVA compatibility is Nvidia 8X00 + PowerDVD CL264dec.ax (Version 1.99.0.1405) + Forceware 163.75

I have a 8500GT running in Windows XP with 163.75 driver and CL264dec.ax version 1.99.0.1405. With MPC-HC, I can play any x264 file, 720p or 1080p, avi or mkv, with DXVA enabled, no stutter, no 20 fps bug, no black screen, no purple screen, no split screen... However if I change anything in that combination, the thing goes to hell.

So I keep this combo as the video playing combo, and I have a 8800GT system with the new forceware driver to play games. I wish the DXVA solution could be found, so I don't have to stick to the old perfect combo.

[Casimir666]

@Casimir666: When you say MPC-HC "seek to the I-frame already", can I think that despite MPC gets the real position where the user click, it will ignore that and reposition such click as if the user had really clicked on the next I-frame ?Thank you.

On seek, parser should position to the first keyframe before the seek point. Decoder decode all frames from I frame to seek point, but drop them (should not be rendered).

[gngn]

well , seeking does not work for me either. if i reencode a video and set the "Keyframe Interval = 1", the seeking will work everytime, at any position. but videoquality drops like hell :D

parameters: Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=4 / deblock=1:-2:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=6 / me-prepass=0 / brdo=1 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=3 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / fgo=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=1 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / bime=1 / keyint=1 / keyint_min=1 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=1000 / ratetol=1.0 / rceq='blurCplx^(1-qComp)' / qcomp=1.00 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=2:1.00

[MarcioAB]

keyint=1 / keyint_min=1 ... yes.

I also confirm that MPC-hc + Cyberlink decoder + nVidia = no "seek" problem.

Obs: to me, nVidia = 8600 GTS + 175.16 driver (the last one).

On the other side MPC-hc + MPC decoder + nVidia = "seek" problem.

So, the "seek" problem is in the MPC decoder, correct ? (and not on MPC-hc or nVidia).

Cyberlink decoder also does not seems to suffer the max 4 Ref Frames issue that MPC decoder suffers.
On the other side, I see framerate going down (and becoming jerky) with Cyberlink decoder and I do not see this problem on MPC decoder (despite in some cases I do not see this framerate issue in Cyberlink so there might be some restrictions to encode for Cyberlink).

Too many variables to work on ... unless people fix all them like Metalmania did.

[crlorentzen]

Here is my testing

Windows XP SP3, Nvidia Geforec 9600 GT 175.16 WHQL, MPC 1.1.0.2 (build 518).

DXVAChecker
NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT
ModeMPEG2_C: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG2_D: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG2_IDCT: DXVA2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_IDCT: DXVA1/2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeWMV9_IDCT: DXVA1/2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_MoComp: DXVA1/2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeWMV9_MoComp: DXVA1/2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_PostProc: DXVA1/2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeWMV9_PostProc: DXVA1/2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
1720AC81-9D1B-4F63-9A37-4A88483D0B87: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080

pirates_sample.mkv 1280x534 - blank screen
shooter_sample.mkv 1280x528 - blank screen
sw_2_sample.mkv 1280x544 - blank screen
x3_sample.mkv 1280x536 - blank screen

Would the issue be the resolutions? Does ATI support more resolutions? Can someone provide a DXVACheck output for an ATI HD card?

_Rumbel__Soul_Eater_-_01__H264-HD_-001.mkv 1280x720 - works, no seeking
http://rapidshare.com/files/116651035/_Rumbel__Soul_Eater_-_01__H264-HD_-001.mkv

Apple Trailer(s) I have tested a few they look the same, here is an example
http://www.apple.com/trailers/weinstein/diaryofthedead/hd/
diaryofthedead-tlr1_h720p.hdmov 1280x720 - only top displays, seeking fails.
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2852/diaryofthedeaddxvatestbm5.th.jpg (http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=diaryofthedeaddxvatestbm5.jpg)

Update: with Cyberlink's CL264dec.ax 2.1.0.1310 PowerDVD 8 the _sample.mkv files play and seek, however, the video gets "jittery"...the Soul Eater does not work excpet without DXVA, and the Apple Trailer test looks perfect, however, I think it has been said that Cyberlink may use DXVA1, so maybe not be an apples to apples comparison but, my CPU Utilization does sit at 0% with DXVA and 8% without using the Cyberlink decoder.

[MarcioAB]

Would the issue be the resolutions?
No. For MPC decoder (MPCVideoDec.ax or internal into MPC) the black screen issue is related with the number of Ref Frames set during encode (it will work for encodes made with 4 or less Ref Frames).

For those 4 samples, the Ref Frames are 8, 8, 9, 9.
For the Rumbel, Ref Frames = 3.

You can quickly check the number of Ref Frames in an encode using MediaInfo before to play for no surprises ;-)

[carnage_pl]

_Rumbel__Soul_Eater_-_01__H264-HD_-001.mkv 1280x720 - works, no seeking


on ATI HD2300 dxva and seeking works fine.
but I have other problem.

General
Complete name : black.hawk.down.2001.1080p.bluray.x264.sample-wpi.mkv
Format : Matroska
File size : 52.0 MB
Duration : 1min.
Overal bit rate : 7198 Kb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2008-05-03 08:23:32
Writing application : mkvmerge v2.2.0 ('Turn It On Again') built on Mar 4 2008 12:58:26
Writing library : libebml v0.7.7 + libmatroska v0.8.1

Video
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 5
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1min.
Bit rate : 6264 Kb/s
Width : 1920 piksele
Height : 800 piksele
Display aspect ratio : 2.400
Frame rate : 23.976 r/s
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Title : Video

DXVA and seeking works but playing is slowed down compared to audio.
sample : black.hawk.down.2001.1080p.bluray.x264.sample_wpi.... (http://www.sendspace.pl/file/ZEecn12W/)

Mobility Radeon X2300 HD
ModeMPEG2_IDCT: DXVA2, NV12, 720x480
ModeMPEG2_A: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480
ModeMPEG2_C: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480
BB0796AE-2ED4-468D-A182-38F2CEADECF8: DXVA2, NV12, 720x480
ModeH264_MoComp_NoFGT_Avivo: DXVA2, NV12, 720x480
ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT_Avivo: DXVA2, -, -
ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT: DXVA2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080

[Kado]

No problems here with "soul eater" and "black hawk down" samples. Both play, seek and don't get out of sync with mpc internal dxva and cyberlink's decoder from pdvd8 using dxva.
vista sp1 + evr pre-sp1 + 9800gtx 175.63 + xxl's mpc rev 518.

[carnage_pl]

No problems here with "soul eater" and "black hawk down" samples. Both play, seek and don't get out of sync with mpc internal dxva and cyberlink's decoder from pdvd8 using dxva.
vista sp1 + evr pre-sp1 + 9800gtx 175.63 + xxl's mpc rev 518.

No problems also on EVR. Slowed down playing occurs on EVR custom presenter

I have 32 vista home

[Kado]

No slowdown here, I always use EVR custom presenter because the regular does not support subtitle rendering.

[carnage_pl]

maybe it's because old drivers. to mobile version of ati hd there aren't any new drivers.i tried 8.4 modded by dh mobility modder but it broke dxva. (windows crash). direct x updated to the newest. is it something what i can do?

[ranpha]

Testing with ATI Radeon HD 3200 (the 780G chipset) with Catalyst 8.5, Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit and latest beta of MPC-HC using the internal decoder. I have a Phenom 9500, but I set the internal decoder to use only 2 threads to simulate a typical dual core setup.

http://www.awooga.org/images/9163kzpo3ud6jgbz8v.jpg (http://www.awooga.org/)

Test file one, the Haruhi OP. Tested with no subtitles because the internal subtitle engine takes more CPU time than DirectVobSub and may skew reading.
http://www.awooga.org/images/tbsn6zb4gvyi2ysubwn_thumb.jpg (http://www.awooga.org/viewer.php?file=tbsn6zb4gvyi2ysubwn.jpg)
13% CPU utilization average. If you ask me, DXVA works with this one.

Test file one, the Haruhi OP. Same case but DXVA disabled.
http://www.awooga.org/images/dn1vn9v7q43tyy4cgrt_thumb.jpg (http://www.awooga.org/viewer.php?file=dn1vn9v7q43tyy4cgrt.jpg)
Consistently above 20% CPU. In screenshot, it is 27%, more than double than when DXVA enabled.

Test file two, pirates_sample.mkv
http://www.awooga.org/images/8djrxxte5drmff77nri0_thumb.jpg (http://www.awooga.org/viewer.php?file=8djrxxte5drmff77nri0.jpg)
Played without any issues with DXVA working. CPU utilization is just like Haruhi OP.

Test file two, shooter_sample.mkv
http://www.awooga.org/images/ntri6tn0qwhj93oza16_thumb.jpg (http://www.awooga.org/viewer.php?file=ntri6tn0qwhj93oza16.jpg)
Also played with no issues with DXVA and with Haruhi's CPU utilization.

Test file three, sw_2_sample.mkv
http://www.awooga.org/images/aqr6r723n5716ixt4_thumb.jpg (http://www.awooga.org/viewer.php?file=aqr6r723n5716ixt4.jpg)
Also the same case as above.

Test file four, x3_sample.mkv
http://www.awooga.org/images/tp089q7245llttwric80_thumb.jpg (http://www.awooga.org/viewer.php?file=tp089q7245llttwric80.jpg)
The same case applies.

Will test with other files and append to this post later.

added:-

Test file five, Soul Eater clip with no subtitles.
http://www.awooga.org/images/bepw94haawhnas0wfz8r_thumb.jpg (http://www.awooga.org/viewer.php?file=bepw94haawhnas0wfz8r.jpg)
Played without any seeking troubles, with CPU utilization similar to Haruhi's with DXVA.

Test file six, the Black Hawk Down 1080p.
http://www.awooga.org/images/5f7ucj5inupp8su38v8y_thumb.jpg (http://www.awooga.org/viewer.php?file=5f7ucj5inupp8su38v8y.jpg)
Also played with no issues, with slightly higher CPU utilization (4 or 5 percent) than Haruhi despite being higher resolution. But did has some seeking trouble if I move the slider in the middle third of the clip, where audio goes out of sync before syncing itself a few second later. Moving the slider at the first third or the last third is problem-free.
The internal decoder still has a long way to go though for 1080p, which support is spotty at best, but for 720p files, MPC-HC has improved considerably from the last 3 months.

[tetsuo55]

The internal decoder still has a long way to go though for 1080p, which support is spotty at best, but for 720p files, MPC-HC has improved considerably from the last 3 months.

That has nothing to do with MPC_HC but rather with the encoding settings used to encode 1080p files

[Schrade]

For people wondering exactly what chipset their card has you might want to try out GPU-Z: http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/

It's like CPU-Z but for Video Chipsets.

Here's my XFX GeFORCE 8800GT Alpha Dog Edition (YDE4):

http://i32.tinypic.com/2gtqn1x.png

[Kado]

@ranpha
Haruhi video uses from 0.77% to 9% with a average of 4% (Pentium D 930@4.2GHz), using latest mpc hc (the one with gpu detection), and with internal subs renderer working.
Remember that if you use directvobsub dxva will not work and that the number of threads is meaningless unless you're using software mode.

[ranpha]

@ranpha
Haruhi video uses from 0.77% to 9% with a average of 4% (Pentium D 930@4.2GHz), using latest mpc hc (the one with gpu detection), and with internal subs renderer working.
Remember that if you use directvobsub dxva will not work and that the number of threads is meaningless unless you're using software mode.

Do you turn on buffering? Because here if the subtitles is turned on while buffering is disabled, the increase in CPU is about 10% to 20%. Subtitles at default setting of prebuffering at 3, the increase is negligible, maybe 3% at most. If you see the first Haruhi pic, DXVA is enabled which means that DirectVobSub is not used (disabled in external filters anyway - just to be sure). The internal subtitles engine takes more CPU than decoding with DXVA itself if you have buffering disabled.

That's why while taking CPU numbers with those videos with elaborate karaoke effects like the Haruhi video, it is best that subtitles are disabled to get a better grip on the numbers.

edit: Download DPC Latency Checker at http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml then run it while playing a video with elaborate karaoke effect and see if you have spikes or not.

[xW0Lf]

they redirected me (suggest to use this thread instead MPC home cinema):..
so i quote my question:

if dedicated chip for h.264 decoding in ati 2x00HD and newer (nvidia 8x00 cards too) can decode only standard h.264 files on-the-fly (example: 1080p with <=4 ref. frames)...
can we do something to avoid that limitation and still use some of graphic-card features to off-load main CPU?
like as decode only parts of h.264 stream, not full (50% work to decode using cpu and 50% to decode using GPU)...
or to use shaders to decode h.264 in GPU ...

main goal is to send part of job to GPU....
i still have single-core P4 @ 3.4ghz and sometimes, when playing 1080P streams (full 1920x1080 with picture, without croping black regions), i got some frame drops/skiping...
and... most of my 1080p collection is non-standard (>4 ref.frames)....

so?
any ideas?

[ranpha]

they redirected me (suggest to use this thread instead MPC home cinema):..
so i quote my question:

if dedicated chip for h.264 decoding in ati 2x00HD and newer (nvidia 8x00 cards too) can decode only standard h.264 files on-the-fly (example: 1080p with <=4 ref. frames)...
can we do something to avoid that limitation and still use some of graphic-card features to off-load main CPU?
like as decode only parts of h.264 stream, not full (50% work to decode using cpu and 50% to decode using GPU)...
or to use shaders to decode h.264 in GPU ...

main goal is to send part of job to GPU....
i still have single-core P4 @ 3.4ghz and sometimes, when playing 1080P streams (full 1920x1080 with picture, without croping black regions), i got some frame drops/skiping...
and... most of my 1080p collection is non-standard (>4 ref.frames)....

so?
any ideas?

For now I think MPC-HC cannot do what you want. Maybe PowerDVD can, but then again that software won't play mkv files.

[tetsuo55]

they redirected me (suggest to use this thread instead MPC home cinema):..
so i quote my question:

if dedicated chip for h.264 decoding in ati 2x00HD and newer (nvidia 8x00 cards too) can decode only standard h.264 files on-the-fly (example: 1080p with <=4 ref. frames)...
can we do something to avoid that limitation and still use some of graphic-card features to off-load main CPU?
like as decode only parts of h.264 stream, not full (50% work to decode using cpu and 50% to decode using GPU)...
or to use shaders to decode h.264 in GPU ...

main goal is to send part of job to GPU....
i still have single-core P4 @ 3.4ghz and sometimes, when playing 1080P streams (full 1920x1080 with picture, without croping black regions), i got some frame drops/skiping...
and... most of my 1080p collection is non-standard (>4 ref.frames)....

so?
any ideas?

Those stutters and frame drops can have 3 possible causes:
-the stuttering/framedrop bug in MPC-HC
-Problems with your other hardware/software
-An incomatible file that accidentally passed the checks

Now you could use the gpu main cpu and ram to do the decoding, but that means that you would have to write a decoder from scratch that runs on the gpu

[marc99]

they redirected me (suggest to use this thread instead MPC home cinema):..
so i quote my question:

if dedicated chip for h.264 decoding in ati 2x00HD and newer (nvidia 8x00 cards too) can decode only standard h.264 files on-the-fly (example: 1080p with <=4 ref. frames)...
can we do something to avoid that limitation and still use some of graphic-card features to off-load main CPU?
like as decode only parts of h.264 stream, not full (50% work to decode using cpu and 50% to decode using GPU)...
or to use shaders to decode h.264 in GPU ...

main goal is to send part of job to GPU....
i still have single-core P4 @ 3.4ghz and sometimes, when playing 1080P streams (full 1920x1080 with picture, without croping black regions), i got some frame drops/skiping...
and... most of my 1080p collection is non-standard (>4 ref.frames)....

so?
any ideas?

h264 Decoder: CPU+GPU ( NVidia CUDA)

http://symposium.elis.ugent.be/upload/ordered/papers_poster/778_bpieters_paper.pdf

[xW0Lf]

it's nice.
but what's with ATI users (including me)...
this is , if i get it right, for nvidia cards/gpu's ?

[marc99]

ATI has CTM (Close to Metal).

[xW0Lf]

can we something available for testing/playing/probing just now...?
in terms that i put/ask?

[Konrad Klar]

For now I think MPC-HC cannot do what you want. Maybe PowerDVD can, but then again that software won't play mkv files.

You can use CyberLink's DS filters in other DirectShow programs that does not have problems with mkv.

[ranpha]

You can use CyberLink's DS filters in other DirectShow programs that does not have problems with mkv.

Only for full bitstream processing. Partial decoding can't be done as mentioned in first post.

[Konrad Klar]

Hmmm..
It depends on what actually particular (CyberLink's) DS filter is doing inside.
AFAIK DirectShow system itself does not perform deep analysis of stream. It don't known nor understand such things like number of Ref Frames. It simply connects filters if mediatype at OUT of first and at IN of second is matching.

My impression was, that problems is inability of using PowerDVD's decoding engine with MKV files. Fortunatelly that is not true. CyberLink's DS filters are not tied to PowerDVD. I can play MKV files with MPC using CyberLink H.264/AVC Decoder (PDVD7.x) to decode H.264 streams.

Are you suggesting that PowerDVD is performing such analysis and depending on result uses CyberLink H.264/AVC Decoder (PDVD7.x), or decodes stream internally? :confused:

Regards.

[Konrad Klar]

General
Complete name : E:\Downloads\Movies\Rihanna - Umbrella.mkv
Format : Matroska
File size : 29.2 MiB
Duration : 4mn 11s
Overal bit rate : 976 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2007-09-29 02:16:56
Writing application : mkvmerge v2.0.2 ('You're My Flame') built on Feb 22 2007 07:36:20
Writing library : libebml v0.7.7 + libmatroska v0.8.1

Video
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 8
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 4mn 10s
Nominal bit rate : 836 Kbps
Width : 608 pixels
Height : 352 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.163
Writing library : x264 - core 54
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x131 / me=umh / subme=7 / brdo=0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=32 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=6 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=1 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=0 / bime=0 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=836 / ratetol=1.0 / rceq='blurCplx^(1-qComp)' / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=836 / vbv_bufsize=8000000 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30

MediaInfo report for one of files in question.

[ranpha]

Hmmm..
It depends on what actually particular (CyberLink's) DS filter is doing inside.
AFAIK DirectShow system itself does not perform deep analysis of stream. It don't known nor understand such things like number of Ref Frames. It simply connects filters if mediatype at OUT of first and at IN of second is matching.

My impression was, that problems is inability of using PowerDVD's decoding engine with MKV files. Fortunatelly that is not true. CyberLink's DS filters are not tied to PowerDVD. I can play MKV files with MPC using CyberLink H.264/AVC Decoder (PDVD7.x) to decode H.264 streams.

Are you suggesting that PowerDVD is performing such analysis and depending on result uses CyberLink H.264/AVC Decoder (PDVD7.x), or decodes stream internally? :confused:

Regards.

As mentioned in the first post, the PowerDVD codec can use the 2 DXVA modes available, full bitstream and also hardware decoding. With MPC, the PowerDVD codec can only use the former, while with the Cyberlink player itself, the codec can use both modes. Cyberlink may have gotten assistance from AMD/nVidia so that the player can use hardware assist mode. which MPC lacks.

[marc99]

h264/AVC bitstream only.

[xW0Lf]

i read something interesting...
in 2x00 ati serries only HD models have on-card-chip for h264 decoding...
fastest 2x00 card is 2900 (for 3d/gaming), and that model NOT HAVE on-card-chip... but i read somewhere that ATI added on-card-decoding for h264 for that model too (but ofcourse without chip, all decoding work is done via shaders in card)..

can we somhow "RIP" that shader program and use it for 2400/2600 and 3x00 series.. or use it as base to made/write something new?

why all that?
to make posible playing non-standard h264 streams, using on-the-card power to offload main CPU

[carnage_pl]

I have problems with that kind of file:
sample :
sample.avi (http://www.sendspace.pl/file/ppsdB28L/)
When I load there is black screen and no audio. Progress bar doesn't move.
When DXVA is off everything is ok.

[xW0Lf]

nah.. looks like this is non-standard h.264... more referent frames than allowed for that resolution (or maybe some others)...
because of that.. i looking for solution to mix cpu+gpu to decode ALL H.264 in ALL conteiners...

[MarcioAB]

I have problems with that kind of file:
sample :
sample.avi (http://www.sendspace.pl/file/ppsdB28L/)
When I load there is black screen and no audio. Progress bar doesn't move.
When DXVA is off everything is ok.

Same here (with MPC_HomeCinema). With Cyberlink-DXVA=on it plays as DXVA=off

This "sample.avi" H264 encode has:

cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=5 / brdo=0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=3 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=2 / b_pyramid=1 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / wpredb=1 / bime=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=909 / ratetol=1.0 / rceq='blurCplx^(1-qComp)' / qcomp=1.00 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=2:1.00

So, there is something here that is preventing DXVA with 8600GTS + XP + VMR7 (because VMR9 is not working with MPC_HC with my last driver update).


Edit: Could be AQ=2 ?

[Casimir666]

Same here (with MPC_HomeCinema). With Cyberlink-DXVA=on it plays as DXVA=off

This "sample.avi" H264 encode has:

cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=5 / brdo=0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=3 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=2 / b_pyramid=1 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / wpredb=1 / bime=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=909 / ratetol=1.0 / rceq='blurCplx^(1-qComp)' / qcomp=1.00 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=2:1.00

So, there is something here that is preventing DXVA with 8600GTS + XP + VMR7 (because VMR9 is not working with MPC_HC with my last driver update).


Edit: Could be AQ=2 ?

This sample works with PDVD : it's a bug in mpc-hc decoder (working on it).

[marc99]

MPC-HC Internal decoder don't like AVI container, sample.avi remuxed to MKV work fine.

[mariner]

MPC-HC Internal decoder don't like AVI container...

Similar problem here, but works with CL264dec.ax.

[MartinAF]

Hello
i have an ATI HD3870 (latest drivers, tested with every driver version) card and have yet to see a mkv file that works with MPC and DXVA
i try dxva with almost every new version but get the same results (and i`m fallowing the development from the 1st public build but waited to post since i thought this is just something that will be fixed shortly)

this is how the haruhi video behaves on my rig:
http://dbd.republika.pl/dxva1.JPG
http://dbd.republika.pl/dxva2.JPG

blockiness and jaggering, note that video plays fine 99,999% of the time if i dont stretch it to full screen. When i go fullscreen it goes bonkers sometimes after a few sec. sometimes the same second i go fullscreen -> stuttering and artifacts like on those screens and have to turn off DXVA or restart video and not go fullscreen

those screens are taken with latest MPC and VMR9 mode (tried all those locked buffers, mixer modes etc. no change)

i can provide many samples but dont know how to cut mkv files wihtout re-encoding (which defeats the purpose), can someone point me to a good tool for cutting those files?

[ranpha]

Hello
i have an ATI HD3870 (latest drivers, tested with every driver version) card and have yet to see a mkv file that works with MPC and DXVA
i try dxva with almost every new version but get the same results (and i`m fallowing the development from the 1st public build but waited to post since i thought this is just something that will be fixed shortly)

this is how the haruhi video behaves on my rig:
http://dbd.republika.pl/dxva1.JPG
http://dbd.republika.pl/dxva2.JPG

blockiness and jaggering, note that video plays fine 99,999% of the time if i dont stretch it to full screen. When i go fullscreen it goes bonkers sometimes after a few sec. sometimes the same second i go fullscreen -> stuttering and artifacts like on those screens and have to turn off DXVA or restart video and not go fullscreen

those screens are taken with latest MPC and VMR9 mode (tried all those locked buffers, mixer modes etc. no change)
?

Does this happened even in Direct3D full-screen mode? Have you tried using Cyberlink PowerDVD codec?

[MartinAF]

the haruhi video (not counting the broken subtitles) and 1 more video i have work with fullscreen D3D. The rest suffer from blocking and artifacts, but the video plays and not hangs.
I will try cyberlink shortly.

[MartinAF]

Well i tested the haruhi video with cyberlink and it worked both when using full D3D and when using normal mode and going fullscreen etc.
Some of my clips stopped working with cyberlink -> hangs on the first frames. The interesting thing is some clips hanged with cyberlink while with MPC they worked flawless when i`m not going fullscreen.
It would be neat if someone could point me to a good mkv cutting utility :)

[carnage_pl]

I noticed strange behavior with 1080p files.
On settings :EVR custom + DXVA on video is slowed down compared to audio. I noticed also that form 5 buffers only one is used and 4 are free
EVR custom +DXVA off everything OK
EVR +DXVA also everything OK but black bar under the frame is gray rather than black
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3677/evrua0.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=evrua0.jpg)

My version of MPC-HC 1.1.578

[ranpha]

@MartinAF

Have you tried playing with 2D surfaces instead of the usual 3D surfaces? Assuming you use VMR9 renderless of course.

@carnage_pl

Did you use nVidia cards?

[carnage_pl]

No, I have ATI card in my laptop

[ranpha]

No, I have ATI card in my laptop

When DXVA is enabled, only one of the buffer will be used, so it is normal. Try setting all Direct3D settings like the anti-aliasing settings in Catalyst and see if that helps.

About the grey problem, if that did not happen on the black bar above (only happen at bottom bar), it should be the problem with your laptop monitor. From the screenshot, the blacks are true blacks and has no gray problems.

[carnage_pl]

Yes grey bar is caused by angle of monitor :P I didn't think and notice it earlier. But still suttering on 1080p appear. I will try playing with setting in Catalys but I don't think that is the problem because now I don't have installer Control center

[ranpha]

You should also make sure Lock Back Buffer is checked as it helps preventing out-of-sync audio too.

[MartinAF]

Yes i tried 2D surf. and there is no change, haruhi video still hangs and stutters/artifacts like earlier

[ranpha]

Yes i tried 2D surf. and there is no change, haruhi video still hangs and stutters/artifacts like earlier

If that's the case, maybe you should try using Overlay Mixer, because you can use DXVA with that renderer too. This is Windows XP right?

[MartinAF]

yes its windows xp sp3
DXVA is not working with overlay

[trazalca]

i have some problems with my ati hd2600 pro with vista sp1, with dxva checker i found that no dxva is available for h264 avivo, (like photo) i use mpc hc in EVR mode and no external filters, with file mkv i can't have hardware acceleration. Someone is so gentle to tell me how can i get that? Thanks in advance

[ranpha]

yes its windows xp sp3
DXVA is not working with overlay


Even with the Cyberlink decoder?

[MartinAF]

the cyberlink decoder loads but is not using DXVA -> i can tell because every video works and my card is not engaging video acceleration clocks (hd3870/50 have different clocks for 2D,3D and video acceleration modes)

[Kado]

When DXVA is enabled, only one of the buffer will be used, so it is normal.

That's actually wrong.
http://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/dxva_evr.png
Vista SP1 x86 + 9800gtx + evr cp + mpc hc 1.1.580.0.

[Rayce]

I thought I'd just jump in and say that with my 8600GTS in Vista SP1, I can play x264 movies in DXVA-mode with the 1280-resolutions with ref's up to 9, 1920's up to 5. I'm using the x264 filter from PowerDVD 8 in MPC-HC.

[MartinAF]

Kado
in my example no buffers are used (or i`m mistaken and the number "0" is a buffer number) and the video is played with dxva1
and i discovered that i can manually resize the video as much as i want but the hangs/artifacts only apear when going fullscreen
http://dbd.republika.pl/haruhi.JPG
using latest mpc build

screen from dxva checker:
http://dbd.republika.pl/dxvacheck.JPG

maybe i should try vista?

[ooferomen]

how do you guys get that red text with those stats to show up?

[ranpha]

how do you guys get that red text with those stats to show up?

CTRL-J when EVR custom presenter or VMR9 renderless.

[JediNight]

I can't for the life of me get DXVA working in MPC-HC. I've tried all of the recommended Output settings from the homepage, have the latest Catalyst drivers installed, etc. and still no go.

Using a Radeon HD2900 Pro and XP SP2 yet. VMR9 Renderless, EVR, and EVR Custom all result in no DXVA. I've uninstalled all other Directshow filters besides the MPC-HC internal ones, and it correctly lists MPC Video Decoder. DXVA Checker comes back with full DXVA support across the board as well.

Anyone think of something I'm missing? I'm at a loss atm.

[STaRGaZeR]

I can't for the life of me get DXVA working in MPC-HC. I've tried all of the recommended Output settings from the homepage, have the latest Catalyst drivers installed, etc. and still no go.

Using a Radeon HD2900 Pro and XP SP2 yet. VMR9 Renderless, EVR, and EVR Custom all result in no DXVA. I've uninstalled all other Directshow filters besides the MPC-HC internal ones, and it correctly lists MPC Video Decoder. DXVA Checker comes back with full DXVA support across the board as well.

Anyone think of something I'm missing? I'm at a loss atm.

The R600 chip does not have UVD (well it has but is disabled because of some obscure reason), so you can't use any type of bitstream decoding. Maybe MPEG-2 IDCT will work though.

[JediNight]

I went back and did some googling, and apparently there was a large controversy over the fact that ATI led everyone to believe the entire HD2XXX line had UVD, but in fact the 2900 doesn't.

However, it does state that the HD2900 card supports decoding using its stream-processors -- just not a dedicated video decoding chip. Now only if I knew what that meant for my situation. If I'm using EVR can I assume the GPU is helping out even though DXVA is disabled?

So confusing...

[STaRGaZeR]

I went back and did some googling, and apparently there was a large controversy over the fact that ATI led everyone to believe the entire HD2XXX line had UVD, but in fact the 2900 doesn't.

However, it does state that the HD2900 card supports decoding using its stream-processors -- just not a dedicated video decoding chip. Now only if I knew what that meant for my situation. If I'm using EVR can I assume the GPU is helping out even though DXVA is disabled?

So confusing...

No, with MPC-HC internal DXVA filters either you have full bitstream decoding or you have no DXVA. PowerDVD and other programs with DXVA support do nothing too. That was just an excuse to justify the lack of UVD IMO.

[TEB]

Hi. Ive got a Nvidia 8800GT which has full DXVA support from what i can see from dxva checker. Im running Vista 32bit sp1 too..
when i set the 718 build og 604 build to EVR Custom i still dont get any dxva support when using stats (ctrl-j) on any mpeg2/h.264 content... Any idea what to test?

teb

[Kado]

@TEB
Check all filters that decode h264 and block them in the mpc external filters preferences, block vobsub as well.
Use this video (http://rapidshare.com/files/113536801/Suzumiya_Haruhi_no_Yuuutsu_-_C4_-_Special_Ending_-__Hitsuji__e569a2b7_.mkv.html) that is 100% DXVA compliant and has subtitles as well.
Use EVR CP if you have Vista or VMR9 if you have XP and enable h264 dxva in the internal filters. Use a recent MPC HC version like rev718 from here (http://www.xvidvideo.ru/content/category/1/1/2/). Also use Haali splitter.
Check if your filters are like this (http://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/mpc_sh_dxva.jpg) (that is MPC HC rev718 using DXVA to decode the video in a 9800GTX).

If its still not working then update your GPU drivers.

[cubanresourceful]

@TEB
Check all filters that decode h264 and block them in the mpc external filters preferences, block vobsub as well.
Use this video (http://rapidshare.com/files/113536801/Suzumiya_Haruhi_no_Yuuutsu_-_C4_-_Special_Ending_-__Hitsuji__e569a2b7_.mkv.html) that is 100% DXVA compliant and has subtitles as well.
Use EVR CP if you have Vista or VMR9 if you have XP and enable h264 dxva in the internal filters. Use a recent MPC HC version like rev718 from here (http://www.xvidvideo.ru/content/category/1/1/2/). Also use Haali splitter.
Check if your filters are like this (http://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/mpc_sh_dxva.jpg) (that is MPC HC rev718 using DXVA to decode the video in a 9800GTX).

If its still not working then update your GPU drivers.

It seems as if that link does not work before. By not work, it means in a strange sense that it will not download. I have tried downloading a different file on rapidshare to test, and it downloads fine, but this video will not. Also, using a downloader like US Downloader reports the link as invalid, so maybe its rapidshares fault? Do you mind testing link to make sure its valid?

On another note, in MeGUI, there is an option to change the profile from 4.1 to 5.1, is there any reason to do this?

[Kado]

The sample provided still downloads fine. MPC HC checks the resolution and reference frames, the profile is irrelevant.

[cubanresourceful]

The sample provided still downloads fine. MPC HC checks the resolution and reference frames, the profile is irrelevant.

It was actually just my internet acting up. Thank you, and what a high quality video too, most of the Anime videos out there look like crap. :/ Maybe I should start ripping from DVDs. Again, thanks for the information! :)

[sneaker_ger]

I did a test on my pc (Windows XP + AGP Card) and it showed the following:

http://www.abload.de/img/dxvaceh.png

Does that mean, that it should theoretically support hardware decoding of H264 (and WMV and MPEG2), though it's not (yet?) supported by MPC-HC? Or does it have to support "VLD" to do that?

[Kado]

Sorry but no HW accelerated H264 for you with MPC HC internal decoder.
Your card only supports motion compensation for h264, you can use cyberlinks decoder with VMR9 to offload some of the decoding.
MPC HC internal decoder only supports Bitstream decoding i.e. VLD.
http://pwp.netcabo.pt/kado/9800gtx_dxva.png

[sneaker_ger]

Thx for the answer.
I knew that it wasn't supported by MPC-HC and did this test "for fun" and was surprised that H264 was listed.
Sadly none Power DVD decoders really worked for me (either slow, crashes or weird output) - but I guess it's probably not worth trying to get it to run when I'm already using CoreAVC...

[dZeus]

I did a test on my pc (Windows XP + AGP Card) and it showed the following:

http://www.abload.de/img/dxvaceh.png

Does that mean, that it should theoretically support hardware decoding of H264 (and WMV and MPEG2), though it's not (yet?) supported by MPC-HC? Or does it have to support "VLD" to do that?

what's interesting is that these older ATI cards appearantly expose both WMV8/9_MoComp as well as WMV8/9_PostProc. On my HD3650 AGP neither is exposed, but I can expose WMV8/9_PostProc through changing a registry setting for the driver with DXVA checker.

However, as in the screenshot for the X1950 Pro, it's only exposed for videos up to 1280x720 on my HD3650 too, and it is buggy on my system (probably the reason why it's not exposed by default):
- only works for some videos in VMR9
- doesn't work for EVR (or MS WMV DMO decoder doesn't support DXVA2?), and some videos cause player to crash to desktop (coral reef adventure works, step into liquid video crashes to dekstop).

I'm very curious if it's possible to expose the WMV8/9_MoComp modes for ATI HD3xxx series! As it is exposed up to 1920x1080 and my cpu is too slow for fluent playback of some higher bitrate WMV9 content at 1080p

[MixMasters]

Now how to solve this thing..??

http://i44.tinypic.com/ekj4a9.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/23puft.png

http://i44.tinypic.com/2ywb8eb.png

i tried everything but nothing worked please help me

[tetsuo55]

I could be wrong, but i think your card only does assisted mpeg2 decoding, and it looks like you don't have the required drivers for that.

please follow the links in my signature, and follow all the steps.
Unless you require any special driver version it should expose all DXVA options.

[clsid]

If his driver/card is unable to use DXVA, then MPC should not use DXVA. His screenshot shows that it tried to use DXVA, see the media type.

[tetsuo55]

MPC-HC might be misinterprenting the dxva bits the driver is exposing.

DXVA checker should be naming codecs exactly, not showing the random number ID, this points to a misconfiguration.

[ShadowVlican]

geforce 6100 doesn't support DXVA for h264 decoding

[insect111]

ATI Radeon HD 4770
ModeMPEG2_IDCT: DXVA2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG2_A: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeMPEG2_C: DXVA1, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT: DXVA2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_VLD: DXVA1/2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
CA15D19A-2B48-43D6-979E-7A6E9C802FF8: DXVA2, NV12, -
5B23D46D-FA5F-4FDC-B78A-7EB2787942EC: DXVA2, NV12, 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080


i wonder what the last two entries mean.

[Lincoln Burrows]

Is the NVidia Geforce 8800 GTS 512 supporting DXVA?

My results:
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8726/imagemrn.png

2nd screen:
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5606/imagem2w.png

Using: Windows XP SP3, plus the latest drivers from the video card.

[tetsuo55]

yes it does according to that screenshot

[Lincoln Burrows]

Then how come MPC-HC keep saying that I am not using DXVA? Is there something I should do to start using?

Can you help me pointing some thread or explaining how we may enable this while playing HD videos?

[tetsuo55]

Use GPU-Z to find out which chip it uses.
And obviously you have to use the newest driver.

[littleD]

What renderer do you use? If VMR7/9, the DXVA sign should be visible. But if EVR then not because you have only dxva1 on xp, and evr fallbacks to its own version of vmr. Lest hope drivers support this. You cant probably use shaders neither?

Just to make sure klick on MPC HC window then go to filters>>MPcvideodecoder and check.

[Lincoln Burrows]

tetsuo/littleD, take a look at this post:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1347280&postcount=10642

I will give you one example: Matrix Revolutions, Blu-ray decrypted. I tried to open the M2TS from the movie (the MediaInfo report is attached on this post - it tells you what codec the file is using, that subtitles are available, etc.).

However, when the file is playing, MPC shows that:
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2326/imagemqq.png

Which is wrong, because the subtitles are there (I discussed this issue in that other post from the MPC-HC's thread. And if you click on "MPC Video Decoder" from the "filters used" list, you will get that result:

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8751/imagemba.png

See?

I am using VMR9-renderless and still not getting the message that DXVA is being used. And this is happening with ALL movies tested so far.

GPU-Z result:

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1517/imagemqc.png

EDIT: I found a guide explaining how to enable DXVA:
http://nunnally.ahmygoddess.net/watching-h264-videos-using-dxva/

But something doesn't feel right. I am still getting no subtitles (issue reported on the MPC-HC thread) and the status bar is saying "Playing DXVA", with both FFDShow Video/Audio decoders set to block on External filters (following the guide's explanation, I had set only Video, but FFDshow Audio showed up later on the filter's used list). But the image doesn't seem fluid (it looks a little faster than normal, as if were using 26 fps) and this is what I am getting in the "filters used" screen:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3250/imagemfr.png

[tetsuo55]

Everything related to DXVA looks fine (subtitles is a different issue).

I suggest you completely start over by following the checklist in my signature.
And you should use the latest SVN version (also in my signature)

[Lincoln Burrows]

I see now that MPEG-4 videos from M2TS are not only playing fine, but showing subtitles. I tested two different movies: Godfather and LOST.

What's wrong with those VC-1 videos? Are they messed or something? Maybe the Matrix was not decrypted properly so it's not showing subtitles only on MPC (but it is on Total Media Theatre?). Ok, let's accept that, as if was a MPC minor issue with this title. Then why the video is not playing normal? What's up with the lags, do I have some drop frames?

EDIT: Whoaaaaaaa, subtitles are now being recognized in the last MPC build (1351) for MATRIX! You got that right! They were fading and appearing again, and now I know why (and that answers the video lag question, too):

I needed to enable the external filters showed bellow:

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1523/imagemqng.png

I had only H264 enabled and that was causing the lag and not displaying the subtitles properly. But that guide explained all I needed to do to use the DXVA feature.

[Lincoln Burrows]

I am experiencing some issues here:

H.264 videos (and other kinds from M2TS Blu-ray streams) are fine. But not the VC-1 type.

* I can only see "Playing DXVA" on the status bar if:

1) I disable VC-1 FFMpeg on "external filters" from MPC-HC. If VC-1 FFMPeg is enabled, it will not show that. And "VC-1 DXVA" needs to be enabled.

2) If I choose VMR-9 renderless. Other output methods don't show the DXVA status.

And the filters being used by MPC-HC while playing the VC-1 stream are:

WMVideo Decoder DMO (where does it come from?)
DScale Audio Decoder

The problem is that the video is playing totally out of sync and I am experiencing severe lag, making impossible to watch those videos.

I don't understand, if H264 videos are fine, why only the VC-1 kind are messed?

I tested with Batman Returns Blu-ray decrypted to my Hard-Drive.

One other thing: despite what that guide said at first, it's possible to use the FFDShow audio decoder filter while playing H264 videos. The tutorial said that if we used any filter(s) at all, DXVA won't work, but that isn't 100% true.

In this VC-1 case, I blocked all filters and no one were interrupting.

Notes: Tested on Windows XP SP3 and the last MPC-HC build - 1369.

[Snowknight26]

The tutorial said that if we used any filter(s) at all, DXVA won't work, but that isn't 100% true.
Any video filters....

[clsid]

WMVideo Decoder DMO (where does it come from?)
That is Microsoft's VC-1 decoder.

One other thing: despite what that guide said at first, it's possible to use the FFDShow audio decoder filter while playing H264 videos. The tutorial said that if we used any filter(s) at all, DXVA won't work, but that isn't 100% true.It means any video processing filters in between the video decoder and the renderer. Audio filters are irrelevant.

[Lincoln Burrows]

About the VC-1 issue, it's not out of sync at first time, but only if you jump to another point of the movie. And it's not fluid, but faster than normal all the time. Bottom line: using MPC-HC, the video seems to be running at fast speed, you can clearly see the difference, it's far from being considered normal.

Do you know if Total Media Theatre from Arcsoft uses DXVA? Is it wasting the same ammount of memory compared with MPC-HC in the DXVA scenario?

Is there some explanation for TMT (and probably PowerDVD Ultra, I haven't tested) being able to run VC-1 and all sorts of codecs without any issues at all? Even interlaced material (try CSI: LA) is recognized.

Are we even close of seeing that happening on MPC-HC? Because it seems odd that only proprietary software can do that (and a sad irony, they are always the ones I don't like to use it).

[clsid]

View -> Renderer Settings -> Presentation -> Enable Frame Time Correction

That might fix the speed problem with VC-1 video.

Keeping it enable while playing other video formats might lead to problems though. I wish Beliyaal would make this option automatic, so it would only get used when needed.

[Lincoln Burrows]

View -> Renderer Settings -> Presentation -> Enable Frame Time Correction

That might fix the speed problem with VC-1 video.Why is that option locked here? I can't select it even when the video is not playing. :confused:

[Mangix]

are you using EVR-CP?

[Lincoln Burrows]

No, as I said, VMR9-renderless.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8123/imagemyxk.png
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2395/imagem2ry.png

As you can see (second image), the "Enable Frame Time Correction" can't be selected, same for RGB-10 bits.

P.S. Don't know if that will help in any way, but I took a picture from the "Statistics" option from that same menu:

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8844/imagemhv.png

[Mangix]

i believe those only work with EVR-CP

[Lincoln Burrows]

It worked with EVR-CP. No lags/issues with image speed. But I needed to enable VC-1 FFMpeg, which was disabled before.

And enabled or not, DXVA is not working with EVR-CP - only VMR9-renderless. It's not working for H.264 neither.


That means if I solve this VC-1 issue, it will disable DXVA for good, and not only for VC-1. Subtitles are also working fine with EVR.


Is that how it's supposed to work? And in the "playback filter list", I see that MPC Video Decoder is being used now, instead of WMVideo Decoder DMO.


One more config that we need to change everytime we want to play a different file... I guess it's time to create a button to do those things (unless restarting MPC-HC is required to apply the changes), each codec is requiring different settings to be enabled/disabled that on a daily basis, you will get tired of changing that everytime, and while interlaced videos like CSI: Las Vegas are not common, normal VC-1 is being constantly used.

Why can't MPC-HC detect the differences and apply all those measures on the fly?

[tetsuo55]

EVR-CP is the best renderer in MPC-HC.

However, on XP:
h264 DXVA is only available in VMR9 (its blocked on the driver level in EVR)
VC1 is available in both VMR9 and EVR-CP.

There is a problem with VC1 that requires an almost complete refactor of the ffmpeg vc1 decoder to fix, the workaround in MPC-HC is the "Enable frame time correction" feature.l

Solving this whole problem completely is pretty simple.
Do what ms and nvidia want you to do, ugrade to windows 7, and all these features will work.(exept interlaced VC1 which is not supported in ffmpeg)

[fastplayer]

However, on XP:
h264 DXVA is only available in VMR9
It works with VMR7 just fine, too.

[Lincoln Burrows]

Are you saying that if I use Windows 7, and enable both VC-1 DXVA and VC-1 FFMpeg, plus VMR9 renderless, I will not have any lag/fast speed issues?

Using EVR-CP, at least on XP, will disable DXVA for both H264 and VC-1. Can you please clarify what output methods will work with DXVA? For example: VMR 7 window, VMR 7 renderless, etc.

EVR/CP = not compatible with DXVA, at least on Windows XP. That's what I said.

Are you actually able to play VC-1 files using DXVA and with no lags (and no need to change the output for VMR-9/EVR if you need to play H.264)?

The lag/issue for VC-1 using VMR-9 renderless is a bug on Windows XP itself? I thought it was somehow related to the power of video card (it can't be my CPU because I am using Q9450/2 GB of RAM, so it should be fast enough).

I mean, the fact that we were forcing MPC-HC to display embedded subtitles from a large M2TS stream was forcing the video-card to work harder by this logic (don't know if makes any sense, I read that somewhere about VMR9-renderless).

[littleD]

Lincoln, you see in DXVA checker window, that you have support vc-1 dxva2 but h264 only dxva1 for xp.
On ati card h264 is the same (xp/h264/dxva1 only), but acceleration with EVR works too. Its just evr/drivers matter, not decoder.
So everyone blame atis's drivers, but you are second one with nvidia i know, that have problem XP/h264/dxva1/EVR decoding. I dont know if it should work actually. Maybe its locked by nvidia drivers for good.


You can enable evr, so you have net framework 3 installed. Now make sure you have DXVA2.dll in system32 folder.

You cant use MPC HC vc-1 decoder as your card cant do bitstream decoding. I dont think WMP codec can decode VC-1, only WMV. Use e.g. cyberlink decoder to test dxva2.

[Astrophizz]

EVR-CP is the best renderer in MPC-HC.

Well, this is subjective. On my system, HR is better because I can get bicubic scaling with good performance. Even without scaling, HR is generally better and the performance of the bicubic scaler in EVR-CP is really bad for me. The funny thing about this is that it means that I get better performance when watching HD videos in full-screen than SD videos. I've never submitted a bug for it or checked, because HR has worked just great and I'm not sure what benefit I'd see with EVR-CP over HR even if my issues did get fixed. What does EVR-CP offer over HR? My system is pretty unique so I'm not sure how beneficial to the project it would be to spend time fixing the issue(s).

[avivahl]

On windows 7, using EVR-CP and the latest nvidia drivers (geforce 8800GT):
H.264 DXVA works (using either the internal DXVA decoder or the Microsoft one);
MPEG-2 DXVA works (using the Microsoft decoder);
VC1 DXVA- I didn't test yet.

[Pr3d]

Section 2: Software players supporing DXVA

Gomplayer and Kmplayer didnt support DXVA anymore?

[Lincoln Burrows]

VC1 DXVA- I didn't test yet.Please tell us when you do.

I already have Win7 here but at this time I can't install it.

[tetsuo55]

It works with VMR7 just fine, too.Sorry, i was not completely clear, other than VMR9-Renderless and EVR-CP no other renderers are supported anymore (we just decided to not remove them)
Besides these 2, the other renderers also have minor issues with scaling and timing. Although its true that currently both renderers have a slightly higher cpu usage than the older ones, this is because they have a lot of debug code right now, this is slowly being removed, eventually the speed will be at least as fast as regular vmr7 and maybe even as fast as overlay.Are you saying that if I use Windows 7, and enable both VC-1 DXVA and VC-1 FFMpeg, plus VMR9 renderless, I will not have any lag/fast speed issues? On windows7 you simply use EVR-CP and everything works (after manually enabling frame time correction)Are you actually able to play VC-1 files using DXVA and with no lags (and no need to change the output for VMR-9/EVR if you need to play H.264)?Yes, on windows 7 with evr-cpWell, this is subjective. On my system, HR is better because I can get bicubic scaling with good performance. Even without scaling, HR is generally better and the performance of the bicubic scaler in EVR-CP is really bad for me. The funny thing about this is that it means that I get better performance when watching HD videos in full-screen than SD videos. I've never submitted a bug for it or checked, because HR has worked just great and I'm not sure what benefit I'd see with EVR-CP over HR even if my issues did get fixed. What does EVR-CP offer over HR? My system is pretty unique so I'm not sure how beneficial to the project it would be to spend time fixing the issue(s).Sorry, again i was not clear, HR is not developed by us, its a closed source renderer (that has a ton of bugs with scaling)
Indeed bicubic scaling in EVR-CP is heavy, we are looking in to further optimisation.
EVR-CP offers only DXVA and no scaling bugs as an improvement over HR, personally i would always choose MadVR over HR as the image quality is much betterGomplayer and Kmplayer didnt support DXVA anymore?They never have, but you can use MPC-HC's codecs in them

[xiulet]

hi all, i have a question :) i like to know if on bitstream(dxva) there are quality difference compared to cpu(ffmpeg) decode video
i am not sure, but i think cpu decode bring better video quality ....

i did make several visual reviews on my mpc hc , using hd video(50Mb bitrate) and apreciate cpu(ffmpeg) was little better quality( better definition and colour).

¿what do you think?

tanks a lot, adéu.

sorry for my english!

[tetsuo55]

hi all, i have a question :) i like to know if on bitstream(dxva) there are quality difference compared to cpu(ffmpeg) decode video
i am not sure, but i think cpu decode bring better video quality ....

i did make several visual reviews on my mpc hc , using hd video(50Mb bitrate) and apreciate cpu(ffmpeg) was little better quality( better definition and colour).

¿what do you think?

tanks a lot, adéu.

sorry for my english!the output is identical

[xiulet]

the output is identical

ok , thank you :)

saludos, adéu.

[littleD]

Well, there actually might be difference. Not in decoders, but further processing. If you have HQ rgb conversion enabled and RGB32 only as na output in ffdshow, you get better picture. During DXVA decoding, ATI drivers make poor rgb conversion. Enable yv12 Chroma upsapling shader in MPC HC to fix that.

[xiulet]

Well, there actually might be difference. Not in decoders, but further processing. If you have HQ rgb conversion enabled and RGB32 only as na output in ffdshow, you get better picture. During DXVA decoding, ATI drivers make poor rgb conversion. Enable yv12 Chroma upsapling shader in MPC HC to fix that.

ok , i see that you say, on colour quality, i am using divx7 for h264
and when compare with dxva (ati) i saw better quality colour on divx7. Then using dxva with chroma upsampling shader fix this, isen't it?
or if i use the rgb32 on ffdshow also ok.
ati use nv12 for output , and i have less color space quality.

thank, you :)

[Pr3d]

They never have, but you can use MPC-HC's codecs in them

I've never used GomPlayer but it seems to support DXVA with something called "Quick Play Mode". :confused:

[tetsuo55]

Well, there actually might be difference. Not in decoders, but further processing. If you have HQ rgb conversion enabled and RGB32 only as na output in ffdshow, you get better picture. During DXVA decoding, ATI drivers make poor rgb conversion. Enable yv12 Chroma upsapling shader in MPC HC to fix that.That is correct, every decoder treats chroma differently, see this thread for more info: http://85.230.118.136/showthread.php?p=1271416#post1271416

Also note, that everyone does poor chroma upsampling(except madvr).

I've never used GomPlayer but it seems to support DXVA with something called "Quick Play Mode". :confused:Qucik play mode disables all internal decoders in GOM and forces it to use external codecs, on windows 7 this means the microsoft DXVA codecs will be used.

[Forteen88]

How come I get more graphics-bugs (when going from fullscreen and moving the mousepointer) only in DXVA-mode when playing mbtree x264-video than non-mbtree x264-video? Sometimes I get graphicsbugs in mbtree even when I don't touch anything :P
I use MPC-Homecinema.1400_(x64) and got a ATI HD 4200 graphicschip (with latest graphicsdriver, Catalyst v9.11), in Windows 7 Pro 64-bit.
Thanks in advance.

[tetsuo55]

How come I get more graphics-bugs (when going from fullscreen and moving the mousepointer) only in DXVA-mode when playing mbtree x264-video than non-mbtree x264-video? Sometimes I get graphicsbugs in mbtree even when I don't touch anything :P
I use MPC-Homecinema.1400_(x64) and got a ATI HD 4200 graphicschip (with latest graphicsdriver, Catalyst v9.11), in Windows 7 Pro 64-bit.
Thanks in advance.
Casn you provide a sample please

[Forteen88]

Can you provide a sample pleaseIt happens in all x264-videos that I've tried with DXVA, but the graphicsbugs doesn't appear often (mostly when I go over to fullscreen and the reverse, and sometimes when I move the mouse much in fullscreen. Often I get graphicsbugs after a few minutes, even though I don't touch anything since pressing play from the start of the video).
nombtree: http://www.imagebam.com/image/d3332e59156110

mbtree: http://www.imagebam.com/image/42f2c559156111

the graphicsbugs are almost the same here.

It seems to be less graphicsbugs now, because before it could look as terrible as this (when I went over to fullscreen and the reverse):
http://www.imagebam.com/image/813ce859156444 although that's a different source (that uses mbtree).

I should point out that when I rewind and see those frames again, they have always been good.

[tetsuo55]

It never happens with any of the h264 videos we use (which is why we need a sample)

I have not seen that type of corruption in a very long time, can you please make a screenshot with CTRL+J while the curroption is visable?

[Forteen88]

@tetsuo55: This suddenly came up after I watched the video a few minutes, (Ctrl+J pressed, but the info isn't on the screenshot):
http://www.imagebam.com/image/4f3a0659193379
but again, when I rewind and watched it again, then the graphicsbugs were gone. This in not quite like previous graphicsbugs. As the graphicsbugs are not at a constant place, it's pretty difficult to send a sample :P
Another one, minutes later:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/dee67c59194844

I used MPC-Homecinema.1404_(x64) when playing these.

EDIT: Never mind, I read "Alternative VSync in MPC-HC is recommended for ATI GPU users", and that seems to have solved it! Thanks for trying to help though.

[xiulet]

That is correct, every decoder treats chroma differently, see this thread for more info: http://85.230.118.136/showthread.php?p=1271416#post1271416

Also note, that does poor chroma upsampling(except madvr).


are you talking about ffmpeg and dxva? or about all decoders( ffdshow, divx7, coreavc..)

on the othert hand, i don't see any quality differences on madvr and evr custom( this may be a little better) in the link you give me ,are not evr snapshot to compare.

Then, does the color upsampling depends on render or decoder?
Because madvr or evr...are renders not decoders.

thanks , you.
adéu.

[tetsuo55]

are you talking about ffmpeg and dxva? or about all decoders( ffdshow, divx7, coreavc..)

on the othert hand, i don't see any quality differences on madvr and evr custom( this may be a little better) in the link you give me ,are not evr snapshot to compare.

Then, does the color upsampling depends on render or decoder?
Because madvr or evr...are renders not decoders.

thanks , you.
adéu.Some decoders do their own RGB conversion, others let the renderer do it.
Some Renderers do their own RGB conversion, others let the video card do it.

Its not simple :)

madvr provides the theoretically best rgb conversion and theoretically/phycovisually best chroma upsampling.
Depending on your videocard the difference between madvr and evr-cp could be huge

[xiulet]

Some decoders do their own RGB conversion, others let the renderer do it.
Some Renderers do their own RGB conversion, others let the video card do it.

Its not simple :)

madvr provides the theoretically best rgb conversion and theoretically/phycovisually best chroma upsampling.
Depending on your videocard the difference between madvr and evr-cp could be huge
ok, not simple :(.

with my gpu i don't see any quality diferences between madvr and evr custom(colour a bit vivid on evr), and using cpu decoders vs. dxva( with any filter) it's better cpu in general. The evr on win7 is very nice, better than vista , no doubt!

But i am going to investigate , a little bit.:devil:


thanks, you
adéu.

[littleD]

Look at your catalyst control panel and AVIVO settings. Maybe there you should looking for.

[Lincoln Burrows]

I can't get DXVA to work with Windows Vista. I used MPC-HC and changed according to this guide:

http://nunnally.ahmygoddess.net/watching-h264-videos-using-dxva/

While the videos are not facing a lag anymore (something that is happening with Windows XP SP3), no matter what output I use it or setting changed, I can't see any signs of DXVA being used on Vista. Are you 100% sure DXVA can be used with VC-1 streams? From the looks of it, H.264 and other codecs are the only ones compatible with DXVA. This codec is always doing that, it should be banned.

A quick note: VMR9-renderless on Vista is making the video's AR wrong, and causing severe lag. The EVR Custom Pres. was the output recommended by this guide, and showed the embedded subtitles, so I guess this is the one and only output that can be used on Vista.

[clsid]

Only progressive VC-1 video is supported by the internal decoders of MPC. It will fail with interlaced stuff.

[Lincoln Burrows]

Only progressive VC-1 video is supported by the internal decoders of MPC. It will fail with interlaced stuff.That's not my case...

I wanna know why Windows XP shows that I am using DXVA on VC-1 videos and Vista is not doing that...

GeForce 8/9 GPUs only have partial hardware acceleration for decoding VC-1 in their VP2 decoder. It will not work with MPC-HC's DXVA decoder which requires bitstream decoding support aka full hardware decoding on GPU. Nvidia GPUs with VP3 and VP4 decoder hardware does work with MPC-HC's VC-1 DXVA decoder since they have full bitstream decoding support for VC-1.

For older VP2 hardware, you need to uncheck MPC-HC's internal VC-1 DXVA and FFMPEG decoder and uncheck WMV1/2/3 internal decoder also. This will use the MS decoder and will give you IDCT partial acceleration for VC-1 and WMV9.Any idea on how we can get a list of video cards with full bitstream decoding support for VC-1?

I will try your tips, unfortunatelly I can't get any VC-1 video to work properly on MPC-HC (using XP), I don't know why, since H.264 and other codecs are perfectly fine.