MKV HD DVD 1080p/720p > (PAL) DVD problem.

[Undead Sega]

Hi, i dont know fi this is the right place to post this or if i made the title correctly but i am having a slight problem when taking a particular HD content file from a MKV (encoded at H264) and compiling it to a DVD.

now, this is what i do, as well to try and preserve some space on my 500GB hard drive (which is already mostly taken up).

i have a MKV file which contains either a 1080p or 720p source, to which i used MKVtoolnix to extract the streams, including the DTS or AC3 file.

i then use avc2avi (with gui) to make the .h264 file be contained in a avi file, to which i find out that when i place it into VirtualDub, it starts processing to 'reconstruct the missing indexes' to where now it will take forever to view the files, and what i usually do, i frameserve it to TMPGEnc to a lossless avi file at 720x576, but it simply refuses to open like an error.

so wat i could either now is, use the resize tool in virtualdub and size it to 720x576 on the Lanczos3 algorithm (which is great!) and to go Save As/AVI into that lossless avi file. the key thing to this is not to move the slider whatsoever, otherwise it will flippin take forever and/or it will crash, thus starting all over again.

OR use Total Video converter and do the exact same thing.

now i have a somwat 70GB avi file which im quite happy.

it is now when i take this AVI file to TMPGEnc Xpress (a great encoder for making MPEG-2 files with little detail loss at high bitrates) and set the necessary settings which includes having the framerate at 23.976 (as many of the HD releases of films wants to give as much of a cinema experience thus not touching the framerate whatsover, also u can tell what framerate a file would in virtualdub as well accurately.

then i let it encode at the necessary CBR bitrate (to retain quality and motion) to bit a DVD-5 when compiled with the audio stream when calculated when inputting the file into DVDLab Pro. Encode it goes for aout an hour and so.

i have now a brilliant MPEG file at the specs i want it, now wat i do is take that into DGPulldown, where i soft telecine it from 23.976 to 25p. makes a new file.

i take that new file into DVDPatcher where i patch the file to 16:9 to give me that orignal aspect ratio (aswell when calculated before encoding), i leave it undisturbed as it could take abit.

finally i have the finished MPEG file i need and i take that and the audio stream into DVDLab Pro where i place them into their right tracks and both being accepted with no problems whatsoever. i let the compiling do it job (which again takes awhile).

finally i will have the compiled files on my hard drive as well as a DVDimage file as an option for immediate burning. but here it comes, when i preview my compilation, it starts off well and looks great, but then the sound gradually goes out of sync to my frustration!

i have tried this many times and i cannot figure it out on what a i doing wrong!

i am literally ripping my hair and the method im using isnt exactly whateverone usues but it is one where nothing can go wrong, because ive done the same for some little files around 42mins (LOST) and works fine, and also that didnt have a problem when i want it to frameserve it to TMPGEnc.

can someone help me here? i would REALLY appreciate it!

sorry if this is really long as well.

Cheers.

[Sharc]

You may want to try SVCD2DVD. Free trial period, I guess
http://www.svcd2dvd.com/

Edit:
.... or if you want to stick to freeware:

Convert with avidemux
http://avidemux.org/

.....then author to DVD with DVD Flick:
http://www.dvdflick.net/

[Undead Sega]

the reason why i go through all of this is to gain as much control to the overall video, in quality and size.

and i do not see what i am doing wrong either, and would really would want to know why does the audio go out of sync when it is untouched?

[setarip_old]

Hi!i have now a brilliant MPEG file at the specs i want it, now wat i do is take that into DGPulldown, where i soft telecine it from 23.976 to 25p. makes a new file.Have you PLAYED the video (from start to finish) at this stage, to make certain it's in synch all the way through?

[Undead Sega]

yes, but not even that, i checked it on the computer and fast forwarded it abit and found it was unsynced, so i thought i would try it on a DVD player so i burned it to a DVD-R, and i found the exact same problem.

could this be because that an audio stream wont have the exact same length at the video stream?

[setarip_old]

I'm sorry, I don't understand your response to my question.

Are you saying "Yes", you played the soft-telecined MPEG - and it IS out of synch?

If this is the case, and your video was not out of synch BEFORE the soft-telecining, then that would appear to be the process that's created the problem...

[Undead Sega]

If this is the problem, why would it be doing that? i am not like speeding up the film or whatever, nor am i adding extra frames.

[Guest]

DGPulldown cannot alter the audio sync because it does not alter the playing length.

Where are you getting these MKV files and what are they?

[Undead Sega]

DGPulldown cannot alter the audio sync because it does not alter the playing length.

that is what i thought.

Where are you getting these MKV files and what are they?

okay, its obvious, but im not going to let it out loud and its basically for my personal use (i do media). these files are 'encoded' from their HD releases to x264 or h264 or etc, along with subtitles and of course their audio streams (one could be at 640kbs, which i could transocde to 348kbs to be read properly or decoded by the player.

[Guest]

My point is do you own the HD releases, and if so, why aren't you encoding from the originals instead of having to demux from the MKVs, etc.

[Undead Sega]

well, that is the point, because i dont own them, but i need the HD print, and so as well i would have a go on putting on a DVD to a spec the way i wanted it.

i have tried 2 sources of MKV files of the same filnm, 1 1080p and the other 720p, i thought it was a problem first when i tried with the 1080p but i get the same result when using it from 720p source.

[Guest]

You're begging for a rule 6 strike. You've one last chance to explain why you are in possession of material you don't own before I hit the strike button.

[Undead Sega]

well, i know this may sound weird, but i DO own the copy of the film (a HD DVD/ DVD Combo) but the problem is i do not have a HD DVD drive to playback the material, thus why i possess it. because its a HD DVD/ DVD Combo, i am just able to use the DVD side, thus i wanted to see the difference (which isnt hard) AND i wanted to try something out thus leading me to this problem.

as i said, i do not understand why i am getting this problem. even when doing the pulldown (which i believe is the 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown).

[Undead Sega]

anyone may i ask?

[frank]

Sorry, PAL speed-up from 23.976 fps to 25 fps is the only way to get a PAL dvd.
There is NOTHING to pull-down. You have to make a new sound track.

[Guest]

Sorry, PAL speed-up from 23.976 fps to 25 fps is the only way to get a PAL dvd.
There is NOTHING to pull-down. You have to make a new sound track. You are misinformed. Many people successfully use DGPulldown for 23.976 -> 25fps.

[n0mag!c]

If this is the problem, why would it be doing that? i am not like speeding up the film or whatever, nor am i adding extra frames.
In case when you don't want speed up and want to leave audio untouched then extra frames (fields) must be added (i.e. with pulldown). And total count of frames increses in this case by 1.0427 (25*1001/24000). Maybe I'm missing something (and PAL video has pulldown flag with special postprocess technic) but I can't understand how convertion to PAL can work other way (than this or speed up).

[n0mag!c]

Yeah, and by the way, I suggest you to use AviSynth instead step with lossless compression. AviSynth saves your time and disk space.

[Undead Sega]

Sorry, PAL speed-up from 23.976 fps to 25 fps is the only way to get a PAL dvd.
There is NOTHING to pull-down. You have to make a new sound track.

well i did a tiny bit of research and i definately know that the whole point of the pulldown is for those who dont want to do the speed-up of film, which to my opinion is better (sure it has it's tiny stutters, but its hell better than telecine it to 29.97)

Yeah, and by the way, I suggest you to use AviSynth instead step with lossless compression. AviSynth saves your time and disk space.

Can AviSynth accept H264 streams?

[n0mag!c]

Can AviSynth accept H264 streams?
Yes. It accepts all through installed DirectShow filters and there is special plug-in (DGAVCDecode) for H.264 streams.

P.S. I just have learned that neuron2 is Donald Graft. Cool to know that famous people are among us. :)

[Undead Sega]

Yes. It accepts all through installed DirectShow filters and there is special plug-in (DGAVCDecode) for H.264 streams.

i see, how wonderful! can u give me an example script? and what else i might need?

P.S. I just have learned that neuron2 is Donald Graft. Cool to know that famous people are among us.

im quite honored myself. Donald Graft is wicked!

[n0mag!c]

i see, how wonderful! can u give me an example script? and what else i might need?
Similarly to Chapter 4 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=135795).
AFAIK "avs" scripts are accepted by TMPG encoder thus you don't need anything else than AviSynth.

[Undead Sega]

i hope it iwll work, because as i mentioned in my first post, i made it into an AVI container, and opened it in VirtualDub which were 'reconstructing missing indexes' and it wouldnt frameserve to TMPGEnc, nor would the contained AVI open in their either.

[Undead Sega]

because of that unstableness, would it work through AviSynth instead?

[n0mag!c]

because of that unstableness, would it work through AviSynth instead?
With AviSynth there is no need for AVI file. So no AVI file - no unstableness, right?
P.S. I thought you've already try it and happy with it.

[Undead Sega]

well right now i am in college, so i will have to wait another 9 hours for me to get home.

also, its the H264 file when extracted that is abit unstable (when i put it in a AVI container).

[Undead Sega]

it works now! thanks very much!

now i can make higher quality DVDs than commercial by having a specific CBR :D

[n0mag!c]

it works now! thanks very much!
now i can make higher quality DVDs than commercial by having a specific CBR :D
You are mistaken in this point. At present time commercial DVDs are also encoded from HD source.

[Undead Sega]

but for some odd reason, from my comparision, they dont look as good, or just slightly on par.

[frank]

neuron2:
You are misinformed. Many people successfully use DGPulldown for 23.976 -> 25fps.Such people are not professionals. As you can see I live in a PAL country. There is no PAL movie with a pull-down. The studios release the DVDs with 4 % speed-up (big advantage for PAL television). And they are too lazy to correct the sound pitch! :devil:

With pull-down you'll get two new problems:
- no smooth movement
- interlaced frames

I only know one example of such a terribly mastered DVD: The Wall (PAL version).

[Undead Sega]

With pull-down you'll get two new problems:
- no smooth movement
- interlaced frames

but they do not compare to the stuttering type of a interlaced NTSC DVD, and inwhich the PAL pulldown is not bad. this is obvious beause no pitch changing occurs.

also, for a long time, DVD players are able to remove this pulldown, as well as TVs i believe, thus giving many viewers a true film viewing.

not to forget to mention, alot of the PAL prints are better quality than the NTSC, even though they can at some times be on-par, its the colour issue that comes in.

[Undead Sega]

hi everyone, its has been awhile since posting here, i just would like to say thanks to all of you who helped me here and i now always use the pulldown to convert NTSC dvds to PAL as its great :D

but one thing i have been noticing when i was taking my HD files into DVD (the one i own for real to make you aware) is colours wise. i dont know if its just me, but i realise that when taking them to a DVD file and watching it on TV, i realise that the image is slightly brighter, now im not too sure why this is, do i have to adjust the CCIR 601? something to do with the colour spaces like YUV, YV12 and RGB when viewing on the TV?

[n0mag!c]

but one thing i have been noticing when i was taking my HD files into DVD (the one i own for real to make you aware) is colours wise. i dont know if its just me, but i realise that when taking them to a DVD file and watching it on TV, i realise that the image is slightly brighter, now im not too sure why this is, do i have to adjust the CCIR 601? something to do with the colour spaces like YUV, YV12 and RGB when viewing on the TV?
To avoid this I suggest you to end up your AviSynth script file with:
YV12toYUY2(interlaced=false)
At least this helps myself.

[Undead Sega]

Oh i see, remember the image is only very slightly brighter.

so i would have the script being like:

AVCSource("C:\AVC.dga")
YV12toYUY2(interlaced=false)

would that be correct?

[n0mag!c]

Oh i see, remember the image is only very slightly brighter.

so i would have the script being like:

AVCSource("C:\AVC.dga")
YV12toYUY2(interlaced=false)

would that be correct?
Yes, please try this and report back.

[Undead Sega]

yes i have tried it, but its doesnt work, and gives me error on that specific line.

[n0mag!c]

very strange. and what exactly error line is?

[Undead Sega]

the line says there is a script error, no function name YV12toYUY2.

seems i am missing something.

[Guest]

The correct function is ConvertToYUY2() but I don't see how this can solve your issue.

[n0mag!c]

The correct function is ConvertToYUY2()
they both work for me
directshowsource("lw2.GRF",fps=23.976,audio=false)
#YV12toYUY2(interlaced=false)
ConvertToYUY2()
but I don't see how this can solve your issue.
I must say, that this helps me with encoding by Procoder. I don't know why this happens, since I've found this workaround it's not bothering me anymore. In YV12 colour space Procoder seems to apply something like AviSynth command "coloryuv(conty=16,contu=16,contv=16)"
while in YUY2 does not.
I didn't notice this issue with several other encoders.
Of course with mpeg2 sources it's better to use dgdecode.dll's "upscale" feature.

[Undead Sega]

thanks, but may i ask, why does it have to be YUY2? i find that very strange not being at least YV12 or something...