My Neighbor Totoro AV Sync

[HartleySan]

I encoded My Neighbor Totoro, but there's a huge AV discrepancy. Basically, the audio (at least the Japanese language version) is almost two seconds shorter than the video. If I encode normally, it's way off, so then I basically timed it, so that the end of the audio stream meets up with the end of the video stream. That's a little better, but it's still noticeably off. So, my question is, is there any way to get them on track without resorting to trial and error?

[manono]

Hi-

Exactly how did you decrypt the VOBs to the hard drive in the first place - what program and settings? And did you get the angle for the Japanese version, and not the English angle? The onscreen title is in Japanese? Decrypting properly goes a long ways towards preventing audio errors. But if worse comes to worst and you did everything correctly and it's still out of synch, here's how I fix it. This will assume a constant asynch - it's off by the same amount all the way through:

Open the AVI in Media Player Classic. Right-click the screen and go Options->Internal Filters->Audio Switcher and make sure the "Enable built-in audio switcher filter" box is checked. You'll only have to do this once. If doing it for the first time, then hit "OK", close MPC and reopen it. Play the AVI in it and use the + or - buttons on the right side of your keyboard to add in a positive or negative delay. A negative delay causes the audio to play earlier. 1000ms=1 second. If you have trouble synching to lips moving, try and find a sharp noise like a door slamming or other loud noise and synch to that. It shows the amount of delay applied in the bottom left of the player. Once you get it the way you like, remember that figure and close MPC.

Now open the AVI in VDubMod, clicking "No" to any messages about VBR audio. Set Video->Direct Stream Copy. Go Streams->Stream List->Right-click the audio stream->Interleaving->Audio Skew Correction->Delay Audio Track By, and fill in the correct amount. "OK" back to the main screen and File->Save As, give it a different name, wait a minute or so and test it out.

[RunningSkittle]

I had the same problem with totoro (and other animes).

how to fix:
rip with dvddecrypter and choose the option to "split by cellid". Delete ALL of the cells that do not contain data at the start and end of the movie (these seem to create the audio delay). Then process the remaining cells with DGindex, and proceed normally.

[manono]

Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at with my question. Being a Disney title it probably has an early form of RipGuard protection. There are a number of ways to handle it, and yours is valid. Running the results of an IFO Mode DVD Decrypter decrypt through FixVTS should also work. As should decrypting it using RipIt4Me (which will run it through FixVTS) or DVDFab HD Decrypter.

[HartleySan]

Wow! Thanks for all the great advice. A little busy with life in general at the moment, so as soon as I get a chance to test everything and can report back, I will do so. Thank you all so much.

[HartleySan]

Okay. I've looked into things a bit and have two questions:

1) RunningSkittle, when you said, "Delete ALL of the cells that do not contain data at the start and end of the movie..." did you mean that I should only rip the first and last cells of the movie? For example, with My Neighbor Totoro, there are eight cells. Should I only rip the 1st and 8th cells? Also, when I load the DVD into DVD Decrypter I get the following for my cell data:

Cell 1
Cell 2
Cell 3
Cell 4
Cell 5
Cell 6
Cell 7
Cell 8

And all the cells are automatically checked, except for Cell 2, which has the asterisk next to it. What does that mean? I noticed that if I checked Cell 2 as well, it only adds .85 seconds to the movie. Maybe that's exactly what's causing the delay.

2) I always use robot4rip to rip everything and it takes care of the subtitles, too, so I don't know how to do that manually. If I manually rip the DVD usually a cell ID rip in DVD Decrypter and then run it through DGIndex, how do I get the subtitles, too? Thank you.

[HartleySan]

I was able to answer question #2 myself. Thanks. Still wondering about #1 though.

[RunningSkittle]

in ifo mode or file mode:

check the option to "rip by cell id"
Once the files are on your drive, open the cells at the beginning and check to see if they contain data that you want in the movie. more than likely you will have a few cells that are just a few kb in size or are blank, you need to make sure to delete those. Watch out for multiple angles too.

For subtitles, you can use vsrip/vobsub (which robot4rip uses)... but you need to rename the cells and .ifo.

Or you can use subrip or dvdsubedit.

[HartleySan]

Okay. I deleted the unnecessary cells, but now I have a problem: When I try to load the IFO into VobSub it's a no-go. Most likely it's because I erased several of the VOBs. What should I do? Thanks.

[RunningSkittle]

You need to rename the cells to something like:
vts_01_0.ifo

vts_01_1.vob
vts_01_2.vob
vts_01_3.vob
...
vts_01_99.vob

[HartleySan]

RunningSkittle and manono, thanks so much for everything. With your guys' help, I was able to get exactly what I wanted. Thank you so much. An interesting point, though: After deleting the unnecessary cells, the audio actually became a little bit longer than the video. The audio is about .2 seconds longer than the the video, but it's not at all noticeable. It made me wonder a bit though. Furthermore, with any DVD, is the audio always at least a little different from the video in length? Thanks.

[HartleySan]

Well, crud! I thought I was in the clear, but found another problem. The subtitles are off now. I'm assuming it's because I used VobSub and when it checks the IFO, it checks all the vobs, even though I've erased some of them. Actually, I don't know, but all I know is that the subtitles are now about 7-10 seconds late. Any suggestions? Sorry, but thanks a million.

[manono]

Hi-

Did you burn the subs into the video? Maybe not, as you would have noticed that right away.

You can fix the subs fairly easily, assuming they are played alongside the AVI and aren't burned into the AVI. If you're burning them into the AVI then you'll have to reencode, of course. Anyway, play them alongside the AVI after adjusting the delay. Use SubtitleCreator for the job. Open SubtitleCreator and go Tools->Manipulate Sub or VobSub->Open Sub (open the IDX)->Delay (set a delay)->Save Sub (save the IDX). Test it with the AVI and adjust some more if necessary until you get it right.

If you are burning the subtitle into the video, then load the edited IDX by using the CTRL-F8 trick, followed by reencoding the movie. Use the dropdown box to load the IDX. Don't be fooled when you see the *.sub listed, as it refers to the text-based SUB file, and not your IDX/SUB. Here's a guide:

http://forum.videohelp.com/topic316471.html?sid=4a8984a244c352791922201de766addb

[HartleySan]

Okay. Thank you very much. By that same token, is it possible to encode a video without any subtitles at all and then add them at a later time? Thanks.

[HartleySan]

Sorry. Another question. If I only have the VOB files, but not the IFO, is it possible to pull the subtitles off of that? Thanks.

[Guest]

Why don't you have the IFO file?

[manono]

Okay. Thank you very much. By that same token, is it possible to encode a video without any subtitles at all and then add them at a later time? Thanks.
Add them how? Like burn or embed them into the video? Not without reencoding. To play them alongside the video, like on a PC or a standalone that supports external subs (which is most of them these days), then you just need a separate set of subs, named the same as the movie (Movie.srt and Movie.avi, for example). And most standalones support only certain formats with SRT being perhaps the most widely supported.
If I only have the VOB files, but not the IFO, is it possible to pull the subtitles off of that?
No, but for a popular movie like Totoro you should be able to find them online easily enough. I just checked and I have them on my hard drive. But they're from the R2 Japanese Totoro DVD. Here, check some of the sites listed here:

http://forum.videohelp.com/topic267416.html

[Guest]

If he has the DVD, he should be able to get the IFO file. People have been struck in the past for providing IFO files.

[HartleySan]

Don't worry. I don't need the subtitles. I have the DVD, etc. It's cool. Actually, I was asking that question for the sake of Neon Genesis Evangelion. Anyway, it's a long story why I asked that question and if it can't be done, it's not a big deal, trust me. Anyway, thanks a lot.

[HartleySan]

I do have another question, though: If I edit the SRT subtitle file, how can I convert that back to an IDX file, so that I can insert the edited version into the movie? Thanks.

[manono]

More about getting subs from the VOBs alone; I don't believe it's possible to get DVD subs - image subs - like in SUP or IDX/SUB format. It is possible to OCR off of the VOBs. DVDSubEdit even has an automatic OCR to SRT subs. But I don't much like the quality of automatic OCR subs. You usually have to do a lot of editing afterwards.
If I edit the SRT subtitle file, how can I convert that back to an IDX file, so that I can insert the edited version into the movie?
If by inserting into the movie you mean into an AVI, you can use the SRT subs as a source for that. Just use that same CTRL-F8 trick I described earlier, along with the guide to which I linked. If you want the IDX/SUB for some other reason, then SubtitleCreator, among other programs, I think, can do the SRT->IDX/SUB conversion.

[RunningSkittle]

You can always create a new ifo with ifoedit.
Also subrip is very good with OCR, the only character it seems to have problems with in evangelion is the '%' symbol. And correct me if im wrong, but I dont believe that subrip needs the ifo either.

[manono]

You're right. I'd never noticed the drop-down box in SubRip to open VOBs. I always have the IFO, and always open that. Yeah, SubRip is a much better solution for getting text-based subs out of VOBs. Thanks.

[HartleySan]

Okay. I'm a little confused. Basically, I ripped the DVD using the cell ID method. Then, I deleted the unnecessary cells. Then, I made a new IFO with IfoEdit. I then used that IFO with VobSub to rip the subtitles, but they're off by about two minutes or so. It's so weird. Of course, I could just shift them, I guess, but I'd really like to know what's causing it. Luckily, the A/V is alright. It's just the subtitles now. So weird. Grrr!

[HartleySan]

Okay. The good news is that I got the subtitles in just the right position. Yeah! The bad news, they turned neon green! They were a normal yellowish color. What happened? Furthermore, how can I fix it? Thanks. I ran the IFO through VobSub, by the way.

[RunningSkittle]

honestly I wouldnt bother with vobsub, i had way too many issues (unreliable timing was one of them) with it.

converting them to text subs is really really easy, and as an added benefit, they are very customizable (editable text, color, font, etc..) and better quality.

edit: you dont need to create a new .ifo, by the way.

[HartleySan]

Okay. I understand. Thanks. With all that said, I'm assuming I should use SubRip then. I've tried to use it, but it's a bit confusing. What settings, etc. do you recommend? Actually, better yet, is there a good, pictorial tutorial out there?

[RunningSkittle]

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/subrip.htm

Its a little dated, but gives you the general idea. also a good idea to read through the manual.

If you run OCR, and you notice the text not coming out correctly, try playing with the advanced OCR options.

[HartleySan]

Thank you. Taking a look at it right now.

[HartleySan]

Also, I assume that I should save the subtitle file as an IDX extension, right?

[RunningSkittle]

use the default, .srt

You can convert to idx/sub later if you want.

[HartleySan]

Gotcha. Thank you so much.

[HartleySan]

Oh, beautiful! All the pieces finally fell into place. And now that I know how to edit subtitles, etc. (thanks to you all) I can start making my own. Anyway, I was hoping to experiment around with writting subtitles in Japanese, but I think it's a no-go. Any advice?

Basically, I tried editing the SRT text file in Notepad and then save and convert, but it's no good. If I save it in the default ANSI format, all the Japanese turns into '?'s. Furthermore, if I "Save As..." using the Unicode format, which can correctly preserve the Japanese characters, SubtitleCreator can't properly read the file to convert to an IDX file. Anyway, any advice would be great. Thanks.

[manono]

Why do you need it to be in IDX/SUB format? AutoGK can use SRT subs, although I know nothing about it preserving Unicode.

Have you tried SubtitleCreator for the SRT->IDX/SUB conversion?

[HartleySan]

Yes, I tried SubtitleCreator with the SRT->IDX/SUB conversion and it doesn't work if I save the text file in Unicode format. Anyway, I'm using GK, not AutoGK. With GK, is it possible to use SRT subtitle files? If so, please tell me how, because I don't know. Thanks.

[unskinnyboy]

You are trying to burn the subs onto the AVI, right? If so, you can use TextSub() (http://avisynth.org.ru/docs/english/externalfilters/vsfilter.htm) in your avs script.

[manono]

With GK, is it possible to use SRT subtitle files?
Yeah, sure. As unskinny boy said, use TextSub. GKnot seems to make it a bit hard for you to do it, though, as by default it wants to load an IDX. But as long as you've uncommented the VSFilter line up at the top, you can add the subs via TextSub, although you'll have to edit the .avs. So, when you go to save the .avs before encoding, click on the edit button, uncomment the VSFilter.dll line near the top (remove the "#"):

LoadPlugin("D:\DVDSTU~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\VSFilter.dll")

and farther down in the subtitle section, use TextSub and the path to the SRT subs:

# CROPPING
crop(0,0,720,480)

# SUBTITLES
#VobSub("FileName")
TextSub("C:\Path\To\Movie.srt")

# RESIZING
LanczosResize(720,480)

Save the script and test it out in VDubMod to make sure the subs look OK, and that the size and positioning is OK. Then you're ready to encode.

[HartleySan]

Thanks, guys. Lemme test it out and I'll be back.

[HartleySan]

It's really annoying, because I want to rip the original subtitles off of the DVD, but whenever I try to do it, VobSub gives me an error "Bad Header Packet Found". Are there any other programs that are good for ripping the original subtitles off of the DVD? Thanks.

[manono]

You can try VSRip. You should have it already in Gordian Knot. If not, get it here:

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/VSRip

[HartleySan]

I believe VSRip is the same thing as VobSub. Anyway, it's still giving me the same results (that is, it changes the colors of the subtitles to the default, green color.)

[manono]

I thought the problem was "Bad Header Packet Found". Green subs are easy to fix. So it made the IDX/SUB file for you?

[HartleySan]

Yes and no. When I try to rip the original subtitles off of the DVD, basically, I can't do it. I get a "Bad Header Packet Found" message. However, if I rip the VOBs myself, make a new IFO with IfoEdit and then run that IFO file through VobSub, it's fine. I can easily get the subtitles. Also, the subtitles come out green and I know exactly how to fix that. The only problem is (and this is mainly because I'm being really OCD about the whole thing) is that I wanna rip the original subtitles, so I can see EXACTLY what color scheme they used, so that I can change the green subtitles I have over to that. That's really all there is to it. However, I still have yet to find a way to rip the original subtitles from the disc. I have no doubt that there is some sort of protection on the disc, preventing me from doing so. I've rip tons and tons of subtitles and never, ever had this problem.

[unskinnyboy]

So this is what you were talking about in another thread when you said you wanted to retain the original color of the subtitles. The original color of the subtitles, yellow, as you said, where did you see this color? Was that when playing the DVD on the PC or on a DVD player? If it was on the PC, then I find that very weird that the colors on the subs would change after ripping them. If it was on a DVD player, it could be that the DVD firmware is using a different color order for the subtitles, thus resulting in a different color.

[manono]

His colors changed because the color information is in the IFOs and he made new IFOs which don't have that color information.

Personally, I think you're being a bit anal about it. I don't even like yellow subs and always change mine to grey. OK, you see yellow subs when playing the DVD, right? And you can make them yellow easily enough, but you want them the exact original shade of yellow, right?

OK, open the DVD in PGCEdit. Double-click on the movie and in the new screen you'll see the CLUT (Color LookUp Table), the 4x4 block of colors. Find your color. It's probably in the top row. Click on it and you'll be taken to a new screen where you can see and write down the exact color values for red, green, and blue. Then when you go to change those ugly green colors in whatever you use (I use VobSub Configure), fill in those same values.

[HartleySan]

manono, that's exactly what I was looking for. And I know I'm being anal about it, but that's what I meant about being OCD about the whole thing. Thank you.

[manono]

Hehe, I figured they must be similar, but I don't know what OCD stands for. Should I? I'm glad you got it sorted out.

[RunningSkittle]

obsessive compulsive disorder

[unskinnyboy]

His colors changed because the color information is in the IFOs and he made new IFOs which don't have that color information.Sorry, missed that. I should have read this thread better before commenting.

[HartleySan]

Well, I'm finally able to achieve everything I wanted to, thanks to all you guys and your wonderful advice. This is definitely a thread I will not forget. Thanks.