About Subtitle Renderer in MPC-HC

[HayateYuki]

The internal subtitle filter can be enabled/disabled through:

Options > Playback > "Auto-load subtitles"

There is this change in MPC:
Automatically block DirectVobSub filter (VSFilter) when the internal subtitle renderer will be used.
(And I found the further change,)
Added option to disable the automatic blocking of VSFilter when "Auto-load subtitles" is enabled and the internal subtitle filter is used. Disabling this block allows users to view two different subtitle languages at the same time (if they want to). The option is called "BlockVSFilter" and currently requires manual editing of the registry/ini, since it is not (yet) available in the GUI.

However, I have to block this filter manualy in MPC HC, because I want to use internal subtitle renderer only, as cannot drag-and-drop the subtitle file to VobSub in other to load it, except it cannot handle the subtitle.

Also I think there must be a great improvement in subtitle renderer.
The first thing for me, the fonts rendering method should be able to set by user.
At lease, I'd like to set the subtitle NOT smooth in VMR9 Renderless Mode.
Comparing with The KMPlayer, If I turn off 'Draw smoothly' (the other settings same as NPC/MPC HC), the subtitle (also OSD) shows astonishing clearer, especially east asian fonts.

Like the suggestion at #1186 and #1201 in the topic "Media Player Classic Home Cinema - DXVA!", There may be the Preferred Subtitle Language List for auto choosing subtitle?

Last qustion:
Whether the subtitle can be drawn to DDSurface at VMR Windowed Mode, or drawn Subtitles to Overlay surface, when others drawn in VMR9 Renderless Mode?

[JimmyZ]

more:

customizable subtitle directories.

option to turn off pre-buffer, important for some subtitle with special effects, is it really performace critical?

[Kado]

Like the suggestion at #1186 and #1201 in the topic "Media Player Classic Home Cinema - DXVA!", There may be the Preferred Subtitle Language List for auto choosing subtitle?

Haali splitter allows you to choose the default subtitle based on the language.

@Casimir666

I have noticed that if you're using haali renderer the subs texture resolution is limited to 1024x768 even if you set the resolution to desktop (I use 1680x1050), this does not happen with evr or vmr9.
Also if the video is at it's normal size (or superior), then if you enable the haali renderer osd the subs get their borders and shadow distorted, corrupted or non existant, both in mkv or external. to resolve it just disable the osd and resize the video to a resolution lower than the normal video frame resolution, even if by 1 pixel (like resizing the mpc window). Also the osd can be enabled if the video resolution is inferior than the normal resolution even by 1 pixel producing normal subs.

[HayateYuki]

Haali splitter allows you to choose the default subtitle based on the language.
That's right. But if Haali Media Splitter does not exist?

And, how to config subtitle renderer (fonts rendering method) using internal subtitle filter?

[azulazules]

Sorry if the question was asked already...

I've been able to enable MPC HC Internal Subtitle Renderer (and OSD) using EVR/WinXPsp3 and Software h264/vc1 decoding. But, how do I actually enable MPC HC Internal Subtitle Renderer (and OSD) using EVR and h264/vc1 DXVA1?

Additional data:
- I have the same problem with MPC HC Internal Haali Renderer.
- VMR9 is fine (but I'd like to avoid it as it is more GPU intensive).

[Kado]

Use EVR Custom Presenter. Normal EVR does not support the internal subtitles renderer.
Haali renderer does not support DXVA, also theres no internal Haali renderer, just Haali renderer if you know what I mean.

[gngn]

if you want subtitles and DXVA in Win XP youre only option is VMR9renderless. EVR Custom Presenter is the choice if you have Vista.
i cant get subtitles even with VMR7 renderless, when DXVA is on.

[azulazules]

Both, thanks for your answers.
Indeed, I am not able to make MPC HC v940 h264 or vc1 DXVA1/WinXPsp3 display subtitles when using Haali, EVR or EVR Custom.
VMR9 Renderless will have to do the job then until this is fixed; if Subtitles with EVR can be fixed.

@gngn: did you try Vista/DXVA(1 or 2) EVR Custom Presenter in MPC HC and did that enable Subtitles for you?

[gngn]

wait, i still aint sure: you wish to use EVR Custom for XP or for Vista? because:
1. EVR Custom and subtitles work perfectly with Vista (ask anyone here about that, and yes i know it works as i set up my brothers notebook with a Ati HD2600 that way, Vista Home Edition x86)
2. VMR9 renderless and subtitles work perfectly with XP (again, ask anyone here, but what do you mean about beeing "more GPU intensive"?)
3. EVR wont work with XP and DXVA (there is a debatte about VC-1 working on Ati cards though, as it uses DXVA1) but it sure doesnt work for H.264 (this uses DXVA2, and XP doesnt support that). if you select EVR in XP and play a movie in DXVA, the renderer will fall back to VMR7, so DXVA will work, but this of course cuts back the subtitles. if you select EVR and play a file in software mode than EVR will be used as renderer and the subtitles will work.

[Kado]

Sorry I didn't notice you were using XP. You have to use VMR9 as gngn said before to have dxva and subtitles in xp.

[JohnPeterson]

Comparing with The KMPlayer, If I turn off 'Draw smoothly' (the other settings same as NPC/MPC HC), the subtitle (also OSD) shows astonishing clearer, especially east asian fonts.


I also prefer the crisp and clear antialias of disabling 'draw smoothly' in kmplayer. Could this be a potential option or feature suggestion in mpc-hc? To enable the same clear and non-blurry subtitles in mpc-hc? I've submitted ticket 835 as a feature suggestion for this issue[1] (https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/ticket/835).

[Hypernova]

I also prefer the crisp and clear antialias of disabling 'draw smoothly' in kmplayer. Could this be a potential option or feature suggestion in mpc-hc? To enable the same clear and non-blurry subtitles in mpc-hc? I've submitted ticket 835 as a feature suggestion for this issue[1] (https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/ticket/835).

Are you already using desktop size texture? I can't imagine any more "crisp and clear" subtitle than it already is if using desktop size texture.

[JohnPeterson]

Are you already using desktop size texture?

Yes.

I can't imagine any more "crisp and clear" subtitle than it already is if using desktop size texture.

Please provide a picture example.

[Hypernova]

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/59/sube.png (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/sube.png/)

[JohnPeterson]

@Hypernova Thank you. I already provided examples of the blurry antialias in post 11 though. But it still says "Attachments Pending Approval" tough so you may not see them.

[Hypernova]

@Hypernova Thank you. I already provided examples of the blurry antialias in post 11 though. But it still says "Attachments Pending Approval" tough so you may not see them.

I saw your pictures now. I don't think that my picture is "blurry" though. I think you could try changing setting from your graphic card, but I think I already disable mine, so what I show is as crisp as it can be. Again, though, I'm the type who prefer Cleartype over non-cleartype.

[johnsonlam]

I think blurry or sharp edges not the most important problem.

Anyone notice the karaoke or moving subtitle usually render incorrectly under MPC-HC? They're working completely OK in MPlayer.

[Keiyakusha]

johnsonlam
Currently MPC-HC is a standard of rendering software subtitles (such as ass and some others). So statment that mplayer is right, mpc-hc - wrong -> invalid. If in some other players subs looks different - these players are wrong. Of course it is possible that some regression sneaked in mpc-hc but...
Anyway can you provide an example (post some subtitles sample)?

Also most likely there will be no changes to subtitle rendering until new renderer is finished and afair currently its developing is stalled

JohnPeterson
Are you saying that on the left picture is subs, rendered by some other player and on the right picture - subs rendered by mpc-hc's internal renderer? If so, did you tried to mach subtitles resolution in mpc-hc settings to your desktop's resolution?

[JohnPeterson]

Are you saying that on the left picture is subs, rendered by dome other player and on the right picture - subs rendered by mpc-hc's internal renderer?


Yes.


If so, did you tried to mach subtitles resolution to your desctop's resolution?

Yes. Those pictures are not resized from the original. That's the exact Arial bold subtitle at that size. With border size 1 in mpc-hc, and border size 10 in kmp, and no shadow. A font rendered like the one to the right would clearly be unacceptably blurry in a program like photoshop and I prefer the antialias to the left and would like to see that in mpc-hc, since that's the player I prefer besides this issue.

[Hypernova]

Why don't you try the same boarder and see what happen then?

[leeperry]

I also prefer the crisp and clear antialias of disabling 'draw smoothly' in kmplayer.
I didn't read the whole thread, but ffdshow can provide very clear looking subs IME...better than KMP I think, as they're less edgy and yet high-res enough and not too blurry. Finding a perfect in-between between those three is very hard, especially if you're not on a LCD apparently.

http://thumbnails31.imagebam.com/10476/f804bf104753617.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/f804bf104753617) http://thumbnails7.imagebam.com/10476/099ab9104753618.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/099ab9104753618)

There's still a halo around them, but it only seems to occur when outputting YV12.

[johnsonlam]

johnsonlam
Currently MPC-HC is a standard of rendering software subtitles (such as ass and some others). So statment that mplayer is right, mpc-hc - wrong -> invalid. If in some other players subs looks different - these players are wrong. Of course it is possible that some regression sneaked in mpc-hc but...
Anyway can you provide an example (post some subtitles sample)?

Also most likely there will be no changes to subtitle rendering until new renderer is finished and afair currently its developing is stalled


Sorry for late reply.

I've uploaded to my server (see the link below), check out the opening and ending (00:50 and 23:55), in Mplayer (SMPlayer) the Karaoke shows correctly but it's not correct in MPC-HC.

http://johnson.tmfc.net/temp/orange road ova-01.mkv

[JohnPeterson]

The MPC-HC developers are really great!

They recently fixed the anti-alias of subtitles so they now look great. The pictures below are from revision 2860 and 3087.