Extract main movie from ripped Bluray?

[ben_franklin]

LOL...Networked Media Tank :)

Thats the first I've heard of this:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/27/popcorn-hours-networked-media-tank-gets-reviewed/

[laserfan]

Get an NMT and you can use ES 1080p video streams + (L)PCM audio in TS/M2TS. Plays great. :) All you need is eac3to, Pcm2Tsmu, and tsMuxeR.Why the (L)PCM audio--doesn't at least the Popcorn Hour NMT play all the usual formats?

[SamuriHL]

Define "usual" formats. :) I didn't think it did any HD audio formats. LPCM would be good if it does that.

[EPiPH0NE]

Why the (L)PCM audio--doesn't at least the Popcorn Hour NMT play all the usual formats?

As far as HD audio the current NMT's, with the exception of the 6500A (I think it can bit stream DTS-MA/TrueHD) , only do (L)PCM which is fine for me cause that's all my AVR can handle. I just do DTS-MA/TrueHD -> PCM in software then remux to TS/M2TS.

[laserfan]

Thanks. I was confused because your post mentioned eac3to, which of course can convert HD formats to standard AC3 or DTS which I was sure the NMT would handle...

[ben_franklin]

OK, so back to the original discussion....

-Use eac3to to get the playlist.

-Open the playlist in tsmuxer and demux.

And then TMPEGenc cannot read the resulting VC1 or 264 file.... :(

Hey, at least its one big file now, and the audio isnt a problem, though tsmuxer chops PCM into 4 gig files....

p.s. This is the new bluray compatible TMPEGenc that just came out 2 days ago.....

[dat720]

What are you trying to get tmpgenc to do with the file?

[SamuriHL]

I don't have any experience with the new TMPGEnc. I'll be no help on that one I'm afraid.

[ben_franklin]

What are you trying to get tmpgenc to do with the file?

Until such time as I have a "box" that will play the native VC1 and 264 files, I have been converting them to WMV.

Any idea what container Tsmuxer is putting the VC1 and 264 files into? Because tmpgenc will read VC1 and 264 files, just not the ones that come out of Tsmuxer....

[SamuriHL]

It depends on what container you tell it to put them in. m2ts, ts, or blu-ray folder structure. In your case, I'd extract the raw video and audio streams (can be done with eac3to or tsmuxer) and use those in tmpgenc.

[ben_franklin]

It depends on what container you tell it to put them in. m2ts, ts, or blu-ray folder structure. In your case, I'd extract the raw video and audio streams (can be done with eac3to or tsmuxer) and use those in tmpgenc.

When I "demux" in tsmuxer, the resulting 264 or VC1 files cannot be read by tmpenc.

[SamuriHL]

That says quite a bit about tmpgenc's ability to read raw streams, doesn't it? :) They're not in a container when you demux. They're raw.

[odditory]

No offense to the OP, but I'm amazed at the patience of some of you guys trying to help somebody that's kind of stubborn about following advice.

On the other hand this info is perfect and what I was looking for since I've finally taken the BD plunge and am tired of other peoples' crappy quality MKV encodes of 1080p sources (on a 65" screen I once again see macroblocking even at 1080p, whereas on 50" I never really noticed), and am ready to see full-bitrate stuff I rip myself.

My opinion is that anyone really SERIOUS about BD playback shouldn't be bothering with trying to beat a square peg into a round hole and trying to play back through a PS3 or XBOX360. I think an HTPC with carefully selected components is the best way to go right now, given the "perfect storm" of components that make the system work: 1) PowerDVD + Nvidia or ATI card capable of 'accelerating' decoding on GPU, 2) Cheap ($150) BD-ROM drive (LG), 3) AnyDVDHD, 4) Media Center inside Vista (used to hate Vista, but since SP1 its great) plus MyMovies plug. It's also not one-click "family friendly" the way Vista Media Center can be with a Harmony remote.

It just doesn't get any better than that. I've spent a LONG time evaluating XBOX360 as an 'extender' and the bottom line is the XBOX360 will always be a game machine first and extender second. TOO many drawbacks, codec incompatibilities, etc.

Nothing currently (outside of Kaleidescape which will cost over $100,000 for a basic system) can touch the flowing interface of Vista Media Center + MyMovies powered by PowerDVD's GPU-accelerated decoders + AnyDVDHD stripping all the B.S.

[SamuriHL]

I keep hearing good things about mymovies. I still haven't messed with it myself. I have to agree that a good HTPC beats all. However, there's one thing missing IMO. HDMI audio that's unmolested. It's coming. I just upgraded to an Onkyo 606 receiver last night and my PS3 is now connected to it via HDMI. The sound is unmatched. I have hope that the 4xxx ati cards will have PowerDVD support for unmolested audio with PowerDVD 8's next upgrade. If so, I MAY retire my 8800 GT and drop one of those in my machine. Then my HTPC experience will be complete. :)

[odditory]

I keep hearing good things about mymovies. I still haven't messed with it myself. I have to agree that a good HTPC beats all. However, there's one thing missing IMO. HDMI audio that's unmolested. It's coming. I just upgraded to an Onkyo 606 receiver last night and my PS3 is now connected to it via HDMI. The sound is unmatched. I have hope that the 4xxx ati cards will have PowerDVD support for unmolested audio with PowerDVD 8's next upgrade. If so, I MAY retire my 8800 GT and drop one of those in my machine. Then my HTPC experience will be complete. :)

Are you saying that, let's say, 5.1 channel DTS over HDMI will sound better than 5.1 channel DTS over TOSLINK?

I probably need to do some more homework on the audio side of things, since my time's been consumed perfecting the video side of my 'ultimate setup' (including going through 4 HDTV's before finally landing on the one that I found acceptable - a 65" Panny!)

I too am in the market for a better receiver - I'll look at the Onkyo you mentioned. Just need some decent floor-standing speakers afterward.

[SamuriHL]

Are you saying that, let's say, 5.1 channel DTS over HDMI will sound better than 5.1 channel DTS over TOSLINK?

I probably need to do some more homework on the audio side of things, since so much time's been spent perfecting the video (including going through 4 HDTV's before finally landing on the one that I found acceptable - a 65" Panny)

I too am in the market for a better receiver - I'll look at the Onkyo you mentioned. Just need some decent floor-standing speakers afterward.

What the?! :D No, that's not what I'm saying. If you're dealing with blu-ray, my friend, you are dealing with HD audio which BURIES DTS over HDMI OR S/PDIF. ;) Consider this...DTS tops out at 1.5mbps. That's the MOST bandwidth you're gonna get out of an S/PDIF connection.

Now, let's consider REAL audio. :D LPCM is uncompressed and the highest quality you can get. I have many Disney made Blu-ray discs that are 6.9mbps for audio. That's what DVD's had for video! ;) HDMI allows you to send an uncompressed LPCM track down the pipe to your HD audio receiver (i.e. the 606 in my case). Next up we have TrueHD and DTS HD MA. Those are the same thing as uncompressed LPCM. How? Think of them like this...RAR and ZIP. When you rar a file, you're compressing it. But the contents of that file are still the same. When you zip a file, the same thing. TrueHD and DTS HD MA are simply compression formats. The player or receiver uncompresses them on the fly (decoding) to get...an uncompressed LPCM track.

The only way to get the LPCM track to your receiver is through HDMI (digitally) or through analog 8 channel output. HDMI is the way to go. I've done both. The bigger debate raging these days isn't HDMI vs whatever, it's to bitstream or not. Bitstreaming will send the TrueHD or DTS HD MA track untouched down the HDMI pipe to the receiver. The receiver decodes it and plays it back. The other way is to let the player decode the TrueHD or DTS HD MA track and send the LPCM track down the pipe to the receiver. This is my preferred method. Reason being is the player can mix other sounds into the track before it sends it to the receiver. This is required in order to do profile 1.1 and BD Live features. Note that the sound is going to be identical. All decoding does is decompress the audio.

In any case, HD audio is where it's at. Forget S/PDIF and DTS. I hope this little primer helps.

[laserfan]

In any case, HD audio is where it's at. Forget S/PDIF and DTS. I hope this little primer helps.Unless of course your ears are ~60 years old and/or require in-ear amplification. In which case HD audio ain't worth a red cent. :p

[SamuriHL]

Unless of course your ears are ~60 years old and/or require in-ear amplification. In which case HD audio ain't worth a red cent. :p

Well, you know, you do have to have ears that can discern the difference, yes. :D I grew up playing an instrument so sound is critical to me.

[odditory]

What the?! :D No, that's not what I'm saying. If you're dealing with blu-ray, my friend, you are dealing with HD audio which BURIES DTS over HDMI OR S/PDIF. ;) Consider this...DTS tops out at 1.5mbps. That's the MOST bandwidth you're gonna get out of an S/PDIF connection.

Now, let's consider REAL audio. :D LPCM is uncompressed and the highest quality you can get. I have many Disney made Blu-ray discs that are 6.9mbps for audio. That's what DVD's had for video! ;) HDMI allows you to send an uncompressed LPCM track down the pipe to your HD audio receiver (i.e. the 606 in my case). Next up we have TrueHD and DTS HD MA. Those are the same thing as uncompressed LPCM. How? Think of them like this...RAR and ZIP. When you rar a file, you're compressing it. But the contents of that file are still the same. When you zip a file, the same thing. TrueHD and DTS HD MA are simply compression formats. The player or receiver uncompresses them on the fly (decoding) to get...an uncompressed LPCM track.

The only way to get the LPCM track to your receiver is through HDMI (digitally) or through analog 8 channel output. HDMI is the way to go. I've done both. The bigger debate raging these days isn't HDMI vs whatever, it's to bitstream or not. Bitstreaming will send the TrueHD or DTS HD MA track untouched down the HDMI pipe to the receiver. The receiver decodes it and plays it back. The other way is to let the player decode the TrueHD or DTS HD MA track and send the LPCM track down the pipe to the receiver. This is my preferred method. Reason being is the player can mix other sounds into the track before it sends it to the receiver. This is required in order to do profile 1.1 and BD Live features. Note that the sound is going to be identical. All decoding does is decompress the audio.

In any case, HD audio is where it's at. Forget S/PDIF and DTS. I hope this little primer helps.

Good infoz... much appreciated, my man. I've been staring at Onkyo's SR875 receiver a little while now today :) thankfully I didn't buy an HDMI / TOSLINK switchbox for $300 so I can put the money toward an A/V receiver (switchbox) instead, among all the other benefits.

[SamuriHL]

That's an amazing rig. The 606 I just got is absolutely fantastic for the price I paid for it. At some point I'll get a set of 7.1 speakers that'll do it justice, but, for now my Yamaha mid range speakers are keeping up. I couldn't be happier with the sound coming out of this thing. My HTPC is connected via analog and my PS3 is connected via HDMI. PS3 buries the analog coming out of the HTPC without a doubt. Still WAYYYYY better than S/PDIF even with the analog, but, nothing matches the HDMI LPCM. It's an experience you should really strive to have. :)

[ben_franklin]

I have a boatload to say about audio streams and their physical transports, but can we save that for another thread????

So, my wishlist is now:

1. want TSmuxer to pick out the main movie playlist and tag the main movie so I don't have to use eac3to OR want AnyDVD/DVDfab to rip the main movie only.....

2. want TSmuxer to stop breaking the PCM into 4 GB chunks....

3. want TSmuxer to give the option of putting the raw streams in containers so more programs can read them....

Hey, if I open the playlist for the main movie and tell TSmuxer to create a BD structure with it, will it make one big .m2ts file???

[SamuriHL]

What the.... ?? TSMuxer already has the option of putting things into an m2ts or ts container. No need to create a blu-ray folder structure if all you want is a single m2ts file.

[ben_franklin]

What the.... ?? TSMuxer already has the option of putting things into an m2ts or ts container. No need to create a blu-ray folder structure if all you want is a single m2ts file.

SamuriHL, I appreciate the help, but if you go look at the thread starting at page1, you never actually told me that it could do a single m2ts file, or how to do one. You guys kept talking about making an image with it and using an image program to read and play it..... :)

All I ever wanted was one big m2ts file with the movie, but now I have evolved to where I want TSmuxer to put the demuxed streams into "recognizable" containers as well.... :)

[SamuriHL]

I just assumed that anyone opening TSMuxer would see the "output m2ts" and "output ts" and figure out that they might output m2ts and ts files. I'm seriously not going to tell you every single button to push. There comes a point where you've got to do a little reading on your own and figure things out. I use TSMuxer to output a BD structure that I can then make an ISO from. That's what *I* do. The title of this thread, if you read it again, is "Extract main movie from ripped Bluray?" There are numerous ways to do that. That's just the method I use.

I also think you're severely confused. TSMuxer DOES output streams to a "recognizable container". As I said already. m2ts and ts. If TMPGEnc doesn't recognize those, it's hardly the fault of TSMuxer. Can TMPGEnc open an MKV container? If so, use eac3to to create an MKV containing the streams you want. Otherwise you will need to find out what container formats TMPGEnc supports and figure out how to put the raw streams into that container. Truly sounds like a major pain to me. My method is much simpler. :)

In any case, you need to learn to do the things you're asking for. You can't just expect that people are going to tell you what's on the screen when they point you in the right direction. (I.E. TSMuxer being able to output m2ts and ts containers...)

[EPiPH0NE]

All I ever wanted was one big m2ts file with the movie, but now I have evolved to where I want TSmuxer to put the demuxed streams into "recognizable" containers as well.... :)


First off, I wouldn't rely on tsMuxeR's demuxing, but for what your trying to do, which most of the people that have replied, including myself, have been doing for quite a while now and have already explained it but here it goes again:

1) Rip BluRay to HDD, or axxs straight from disc

2) IF the BluRay isn't seamlessly branched you can just go ahead and pick your streams and remux to TS/M2TS -> Done.

2a) IF seamless branching is present you will need to use either eac3to or BDedit to determine what playlist (MPLS file) you will need and then load that MPLS into tsMuxeR, pick your streams and mux to TS/M2TS -> done.

2b) If after muxing your branch points go out of synch then you will need to run the title set (MPLS) through eac3to which will take care of the audio gaps. In this case you can either choose to demux the stream using eac3to or mux to MKV (what I do) and then take that resulting file, input it into tsMuxeR, choose your streams and mux to TS/M2TS.



That's pretty much it in a nut shell. There isn't much to it.

[SamuriHL]

EPiPHONE,

Can MKV handle HD audio streams ok? I've never tried but am curious if I can use eac3to to build an MKV that contains an HD video and say, a TrueHD or DTS HD MA audio track. How about subs? (Yea, I know, I can go look but if you know off hand that'd be helpful.)

[ben_franklin]

I'm seriously not going to tell you every single button to push. There comes a point where you've got to do a little reading on your own and figure things out.


Please don't assume somebody hasn't spent hundreds of hours reading 100+ page threads trying to figure this out already. I'm not implying your daft for not understanding what I want and I believe you shouldn't imply that I haven't spent what could only be called "ridiculously" huge amounts of time working with this....

None of it is even remotely straightforward or documented in any cohesive source in any way shape or form. Never assume that this is easy to learn for layman or scholar alike, it isn't.

As long as the tools aren't there to easily go from point a to b, people are going to be forced to grok nuances of the video streaming world that they really shouldn't have to (does anybody really give a **** about the inside of the microwave they use every day?)

[SamuriHL]

I understand that, but, when we say open the MPLS with TSMuxer, we have to assume you can see what output options exist, no? We've tried to simplify it as much as possible in this thread for you. Not knowing TMPGEnc and what it can and can't handle for HD input makes it a bit more difficult. But, if it supports BD structures like the home page claims, one would have to assume it can handle an m2ts file which TSMuxer can quite easily make using the steps we've all documented several times in this thread. If it doesn't handle an m2ts file, then its worth as an HD encoder has to be questioned IMO. :)

[EPiPH0NE]

EPiPHONE,

Can MKV handle HD audio streams ok? I've never tried but am curious if I can use eac3to to build an MKV that contains an HD video and say, a TrueHD or DTS HD MA audio track. How about subs? (Yea, I know, I can go look but if you know off hand that'd be helpful.)


Eac3to can only mux video into MKV not audio.

[SamuriHL]

Eac3to can only mux video into MKV not audio.

Ah, didn't know that. Still could be useful in some ways, though. Depending on what your ultimate goal is.

[ben_franklin]

My wish would be that the "videosphere" (the active community of vid enthusiasts and the related businesses) would all get on the same page as far as a @#%@^% standardized "container" for streams and just use that one!!!
Additionally, I know this is all in the early "no mans land" of discovery, but it sure in the hell would be nice if those making the tools would make more assumptions like A. people are going to want the main movie and not want to figure it out before or after the fact. B. people are going to want to take the resulting data and open it up with mainstream video tools and not have to "go Hax0r" to figure it all out....

[SamuriHL]

You need to realize that these tools are EXTREMELY hard to write. There are 3 different video formats, a ton of audio, seamless branching issues, complex menu structures, subtitles that are different, etc, etc. The authors know what people want. Read the TSMuxer thread. How many PAGES is it? A lot of it is requests. The tools will continue to evolve. The next version of TSMuxer will probably be able to select the main movie quite easily. RipBot will be able to for sure according to the author. The authors are not paid for their work. They do it on their free time. You need to have respect for what they've done for us and continue to do.

[dat720]

My wish would be that the "videosphere" (the active community of vid enthusiasts and the related businesses) would all get on the same page as far as a @#%@^% standardized "container" for streams and just use that one!!!

That is never going to happen!!! as long as there are competing companies out there trying to get your money then there will be different standards!!! simple as that.

A. people are going to want the main movie and not want to figure it out before or after the fact.

Have you tried demuxing a Bluray with eac3to (which can get just the main movie!!!) then open the resulting mkv with tmpegenc???

Do not forget that some discs contain 2, yes 2 main movie streams.. I am Legend is a perfect example it contains the theatrical cut, and a alternate ending cut.. how does a program decide which stream you want?

B. people are going to want to take the resulting data and open it up with mainstream video tools and not have to "go Hax0r" to figure it all out....

As you said before this is early day's BE THANKFUL that there are products around that can demux and convert HD/DVD.....

Bitching and whining about the current state of software is not going to get things done any quicker, the software devs will add features as they 1 figure out how to and 2 have the time to, DO NOT forget that all these people currently working on product's like eac3to and tsremux are doing so unpaid in their own free time, maybe if you want things done quicker you should donate to the author's.....

[ben_franklin]

You need to have respect for what they've done for us and continue to do.
And I have given that respect by paying for the tools I use. :)

[ben_franklin]

I dont believe previous versions of tmpegenc would handle MKV, but a new one just came out two days ago, so I might give it a shot....

[SamuriHL]

And I have given that respect by paying for the tools I use. :)

Excellent. Now be patient while they add the most requested features when they can get to it. Donations are great and I'm sure the authors sincerely appreciate that, but, donations don't pay the mortgage. :) They still have to find time and energy to add the features.

[SamuriHL]

I dont believe previous versions of tmpegenc would handle MKV, but a new one just came out two days ago, so I might give it a shot....

I'm not very impressed with what you've told us so far about the new version of TMPGEnc. :)

[dat720]

EPiPHONE,

Can MKV handle HD audio streams ok? I've never tried but am curious if I can use eac3to to build an MKV that contains an HD video and say, a TrueHD or DTS HD MA audio track. How about subs? (Yea, I know, I can go look but if you know off hand that'd be helpful.)

As EPiPHONE already replied, all i will say is that i demux video to mkv and audio to ac3 (you could just stream copy) then combine the audio into the mkv with mkvmerge, little bit fiddly but only add's about 20mins to the process (less with my new pc yay for core 2 duo)

[SamuriHL]

As EPiPHONE already replied, all i will say is that i demux video to mkv and audio to ac3 (you could just stream copy) then combine the audio into the mkv with mkvmerge, little bit fiddly but only add's about 20mins to the process (less with my new pc yay for core 2 duo)

Yea, see, no, that's exactly what I don't want. MKV is useless to me if it doesn't support HD audio. I didn't just get an Onkyo 606 with fully HDMI and HD audio support so I could be stuck with ac3 and dts. :) Hence I'll stick to my ISO method. That allows me to keep FULL quality. With HD audio.

[dat720]

You should be able to drop amy stream into a mkv, as long as your pc has codec's to play it back,

[SamuriHL]

Time for me to go learn more about MKV I think. And the problem is that PowerDVD doesn't support MKV and it doesn't share its codecs with others. The whole HD game is a pain due to all the protection crap they have on it. And I don't just mean AACS. PowerDVD and their protected audio path nonsense is going to make me have to get a new sound card if I want HDMI unmolested audio. Something like this:

http://www.auzentech.com/site/company/press.php

What a real pain. I just want to enjoy the best picture and sound that my equipment allows. So, ISOs for me...still the easiest method IMO that allows for the highest possible quality.

[dat720]

Fair nuts, i always say use what works, there is no right and wrong, i was just sharing my experiences with mkv.

[SamuriHL]

Yup, and I definitely appreciate that. I wanted to know more about it to see if it was a possible solution for me and then I realized even if it can do the streams I want, I can't play them anyway. SIGH. What a nightmare! The price for being on the bleeding edge.

[dat720]

Yup, its a problem, it's the same with any new technology, we just have to wait and hope that the cluey guys find good solution's :) i am extremely impressed with the current level of software available, 12 months ago it was a real nightmare to convert a hd/br to avi or just plain do anything with them.

And all i have to say about it is EAC3TO rocks, madshi is a legend!!! and i can't wait till he supports dropping audio streams to mkv in the same pass!!! :)

[SamuriHL]

I have to completely agree. The state of tools right now is amazing given the complexity. Another year from now and I can imagine we might have some one click solutions similar to CloneDVD and DVD Shrink now. Being able to keep the menus and special features while dropping previews and other crap...that'd be really sweet. But *VERY* difficult to do I think. Plus we need faster machines for reencoding and all that if we want to shrink stuff down to a single layer. I suspect burning will be in the cards as media prices fall. We'll get to the level we want to be at some day. But so far, amazing progress. The seamless branching thing was a royal pain even 6 months ago. Now with eac3to, it's SO much easier. And when the other tools incorporate that kind of thing into their own code, we'll be even closer.

[ben_franklin]

So, I've not been able to make a working rattatouille even though I can now generate one big .m2ts file. The audio just wont sync up right.... :(

[SamuriHL]

Give the exact steps you're using.

[laserfan]

My wish would be that the "videosphere" (the active community of vid enthusiasts and the related businesses) would all get on the same page as far as a @#%@^% standardized "container" for streams and just use that one!!!You are hopelessly mistaken if you believe this is ever going to happen. The fact is that there aren't three people among the entire Doom9 population who have exactly the same interests, desires, & goals for their video setups.

Decide what you want, and figure-out how best to get it. All the tools are here.

[dat720]

Exactly, different container's suit different task's, same with video and audio codec's, a vendor saw a gap to fill and created a product to fill that gap!

Your just damn out of luck as far as creating 1 standard for video's go, it just does not work, It's like VOB and EVOB, VOB could not support HD DVD resolution's and bitrate's so the EVOB standard was developed, as technology changes and evolves so does the delivery methods. MP3 is lucky it has been around as long as it has, it is a format that gained popularity and has just stuck around because of that, same as xvid and divx.

[setarip_old]

@ben_franklin

Hi!So, I've not been able to make a working rattatouille even though I can now generate one big .m2ts file. The audio just wont sync up right...

The following thread includes posting by "spexman" who indicates that his/her backup of the Bluray "Ratatouille" suffers only from banding in one scene. presumably, this means that all other aspects, including synch, are okay. You might want to communicate with "spexman" to find out how this was accomplished.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=139014&highlight=ratatouille