Price discussion on AnyDVD - moved from Decrypting

[Inventive Software]

Apparantly I got striked for this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1120768#post1120768) post, so my apologies to a nation must go out! I don't think I'd had enough caffeine when I read all that and wrote what I did. :D

[Peer van Heuen]

C'mon folks - compare this price to good old DVD Decrypter and RipIt4Me and even with all its warts, DVD Fab Decrypter - all free. I'm not saying AnyDVD's quality isn't there (in fact, from what I read, the opposite is true) or that the "monthly rate" isn't low, I'm saying look objectively at the price differential.

People do ... and buy AnyDVD. Any more questions? :cool:

[Sharktooth]

well, im going to buy it so i think my point of view could be shared.
i think anydvd hd is quite expensive but without any alternatives it is worth its price. i mean, it's a one time pay and forget... there are no subscription costs and you get one year of tech support and updates comes for free and forever.
if new or updated protections schemes comes from the kings of a$$holes (sony), slysoft will be still there to find how to bypass them... and you'll get those updates for free. so i think 79€ is not that bad...

[linx05]

blutach, didn't you buy a $500+ encoder at one point (Procoder)?

Is it "just an encoder" like AnyDVD HD is "just a decrypter"? One would hope not at a few hundred a pop! And that's not even with lifetime updates (correct me if I am wrong but I couldn't find anything on Procoders website regarding lifetime updates).

My point is, how can you justify paying that much for an encoder when AnyDVD HD does so much and more? At least Slysoft offers AnyDVD HD with lifetime updates.

[setarip_old]

@Peer van Hueun

This is reminiscent of the type of "back and forth" that occurred at various forums when DVD95Copy appeared as the first commercial true "one-click" DVD backup program. At that time, I had the following speculations:

Perhaps it's:

1) A generational thing, or

2) Due to the fact that forums such as this one are populated, among others, with freeware developers, or

3) The desire of one or a few to express their support for "favored" programs/authors and "shout down" or "punish" those with a different point of view


Back to the present:

Overall, it seems that (This is a good thing) there continues to be a firmly entrenched "freeware only camp" - who, in my opinion, should simply state that this is what they believe, without offering any possibly less-than-accurate comparisons as justification.

I believe if you count the relevant posts in this thread, you'll find that those who support the value of purchasing AnyDVD outweigh those who question its current purchase price.

Personally, I wish to thank SlySoft, its commercial competitiors, and the wonderful freeware developers, for continuing to develop programs that allow me to make backup copies of my purchased video discs of all formats ;>}

[Ajax_Undone]

I cant Believe people are giving Slysoft crap, they have software that does what no one else can do, they have free lifetime updates,(how many co. do that ? most just up date for a year and some until a new version comes out) Anydvd HD does everything it promises and more, and they seem to care about its customers which is rare these days, Thank you Slysoft for a great piece of software its worth every penny, without it my HTPC would not work as well as it does keep up the excellent work

Agreed there is much to see if you look at it economically they are sitting in the same boat they have been since they started this endeavor... I have purchased slysoft products and will continue to support them as long as they stay current on the formats that they support...

By the way if you want a free program that strips HD and BluRay. Its in your court to discover how and release it... BD+ Wont crack its self and aacs is a half way marker...

I believe Slysoft needs a round of applause for there effort in putting Sony/BMG in there place, and for breaking there 10 year "Unbreakable" Encryption device...:D

As for BD Live I hope it tanks...:mad:

Peer you and your staff are gods amung men...:rolleyes:

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

Let's just look at the simple facts here. Remove all the personal dislikes for Slysoft from the discussion. Some people hold obvious deep animosity toward Slysoft for reasons that, frankly, I couldn't care less about.

It used to be that people bought videos just to watch when they wanted and to just relax. We could watch a great movie in the comfort of our own home w/o going to the theater. Unfortunately, those old tapes used to wear out and became unbearable to watch if they didn't end up snapping or getting eaten. Back then it was actually affordable for a family of four to see a movie in the theaters and get candy w/o filing for bankruptcy but it was still nice to sit at home and watch whatever you wanted when you wanted and make your own popcorn and save money. These days if you have a family of four you are better off investing in a decent home entertainment system. You'll save money in the long run.

The days of simple enjoyment have passed. Now when you purchase movies on DVDs or more recently BD or HD-DVD you are making an investment. Yes, an investment. We no longer live in the days of TVs being pretty similar and a simple VCR. We now have more and more people with very expensive home entertainment systems and invariably discs get damaged. So to protect our investments people make backups. Just as we invest in our purchases we also invest in the software we use to make the backups that protect our investment. We want something that does the job and does it well, do we not?

People can decide which product works for them based on their own personal tastes. I, personally, couldn't care less what product someone uses. If they are happy with the results then so be it. As long as I am not forced to sit through watching a horribly bad backup with a friend that they made of their own DVD then I don't care.

Now, as I said before the backup software is just as much an investment as the original purchase of the movies and the equipment we watch it on. So, having said that, I have purchased AnyDVD, CloneCD, CloneDVD and the AnyDVD HD upgrade. Minus the HD upgrade I made my purchases back in 2003. I also don't have a HD-DVD or BD player but I made an investment knowing I likely would need it at some point. So, doing the math I spent 157 USD for all the products including the HD upgrade. My investment has essentially cost me all of ~2.6166666666666666666666666666667 USD per month since my purchase and as time goes on that will drop, of course. Unlike some other programs out there there are no yearly fees. All updates are free. Was it worth it? Most definitely especially since that figure included 3 programs and not 1! For just AnyDVD HD the figure is ~1.3166666666666666666666666666667 USD a month.

Slysoft continually improves their software and continually protects their customers Fair Use rights. They tackled HD-DVD quickly and AACS is handled as needed, then tackled BD and BD+.

People can decide to not purchase Slysoft products because they think it's too expensive and that's all well and good. For the people who do purchase it now and think it's expensive do the math for the cost if you use the software for the next 5 years. As I type this the cost of just AnyDVD HD is 79 Euro/122.66 USD. It would be ~24.54 USD a year or ~2.0443333333333333333333333333333 USD a month. Is it really that absurd a cost? I don't believe it is. Heck, two new DVDs can cost more than 25 USD.

One final thing I have to comment on is that I've seen some people in different places comment about the price going up and the switch to the Euro. One of the very reasons I purchased the HD upgrade when it was first released was the fact that I wanted to make my investment when it would be at its cheapest w/o fear of inflation. I was looking ahead. I also wanted to support Slysoft's efforts. I didn't know they'd switch to the Euro or that the USD would nosedive but I did know I had no reason to hold off and wait for some undefined future time. In short, I made a wise investment.

Step back and look at the big picture. If you still think AnyDVD is too expensive then so be it.

[blutach]

@linx05

What has my choice of encoder got to do with this thread (btw, I now, almost exclusively use HCEnc)? Most people know that I use a range of commercial and free products and donate liberally to the donationware I use (and help support).

Now, the quality of AnyDVD is not under debate here - at least for me. For breaking BD+, they must be applauded. So, putting that aside, what I wanted to discuss (without the defenders of the faith jumping down my throat) was the price hike - 50% - and the magnitude of the current price vis-a-vis the competition.

I have seen people who question current prices and the price hike. I have even seen AnyDVD supporters say, (paraphrasing) "I'm very glad I have AnyDVD, but if I had to buy it after 1 Jan 2008, I wouldn't". And I'm sure, as Peer says, there are new sales, too.

And yes, it's just a decrypter (at least in my book). It does no editing/en/transcoding/burning/other functions (for that, as DrinkLyeAndDie has observed, you need to buy another SlySoft product or the like or use freeware solutions).

In the end, price vs value is a personal thing. But you can also be objective and say US$122 - does that look "expensive" compared to other similar products (and not compared to the value of your DVD collection - that is not a valid comparison, IMO)? I believe that it does look expensive and hope for competitors to match SlySoft's efforts in terms of product offering at much reduced prices.

Regards

[SamuriHL]

And yes, it's just a decrypter (at least in my book). It does no editing/en/transcoding/burning/other functions (for that, as DrinkLyeAndDie has observed, you need to buy another SlySoft product or the like or use freeware solutions).


So, I guess on the fly removal of PUOs, subtitle transparency, region code removal, "magic file replacement" on HD DVD's allowing you to edit the title and have the files "replaced" in real time when the disc is inserted, etc, etc, etc don't count "in your book" as anything more than a "decrypter"? All of the ACTUAL decrypters you love to compare AnyDVD to do none of those things on the fly. ALL of them require you to rip the disc first. And most of them don't offer even half the of the features I just mentioned. A *LOT* of AnyDVD users own and use it for use on their HTPC's in real time...myself included. Why should I have to rip it to my hard drive if I'm just wanting to watch my original? Yet I'd like to have PUO's removed, skip trailers by jumping straight to the movie or menu, adjust subtitle transparency, etc in real time. AnyDVD provides that. So please stop calling it a "simple decrypter" because that is quite inaccurate does a great disservice to what Slysoft has accomplished.

[blutach]

No, it doesn't, as that is part and parcel of any decrypter (they all remove these things as they write decrpyted files).

I acknowledge that for those who want real time viewing (without writing files), the driver concept of removing these things is unique but is E79 worth it just to watch movies from your DVD without PUOs, trailers, etc?

Regards

[SamuriHL]

And that helps me on my HTPC...how, exactly? Again, I'm not talking about ripping. That is not the only thing AnyDVD is useful for. And that's exactly the point. If all it did was write some decrypted files to the hard drive, then I would agree with you and call it a decrypter. But, that's not all it does. The VALUE to me and others is that it does all those things WITHOUT THE NEED TO RIP. If I have a region B Blu-ray, I don't want to have to rip it just to play it on my HTPC. AnyDVD HD allows me to remove the region coding in real time to allow this...again, without ripping. If I want to skip the download content on my HD DVD's, I can do that with an option in AnyDVD HD, which again, works without ripping. All a decrypter does is rip a bunch of files to the hard drive. That's useless to me when I'm trying to play an original disc on my HTPC. Why rip if I don't have to?

[blutach]

Please see my edit above, which was done at the same time as you were responding.

Why rip if you don't want to? Your preference of course, but it costs nothing and protects your DVD. Probably plays better too as there is no jitter or error correction needed. But this is not the point of this (new) thread.

I recognise that I am not going to convince any AnyDVD lover on this. There are fans of the program, who just don't want to objectively discuss pricing.

Regards

[SamuriHL]

I'll talk about price which is the subject of this thread. The reason I brought up the on the fly features is precisely because I think those features DO bring value to the product. Not everything in this world is free. While it is truly awesome and excellent that a bunch of EXTREMELY talented people have brought us extraordinary freeware products like RipIt4Me, ImgBurn, VobBlanker, PGCEdit, and others, some people want to get paid for their work. I see no problem in software developers making money on their work.

So, as a result, you have to decide what kind of value to place on a product. AnyDVD, to some people, is unique in what it can do. If your only goal is to rip discs to your hard drive, then a freeware decrypter might best suit your needs. In that case, you have absolutely no reason to spend money on a product at all. IOW, there's no value that AnyDVD brings to the table to warrant purchasing it at any price.

However, AnyDVD has features that no other program currently has. The on the fly features plus the ability to remove protections from the latest HD DVD and BD's. Therefore if you DO want to back up your HD collection, AnyDVD HD is currently the ONLY way to do that. When you're spending 25-30 USD per disc on average, the price of AnyDVD HD doesn't look so bad in order to protect that investment. Again, there's NO OTHER WAY to do so.

So what is that worth? To you, not much, as is evidenced by every post in which you bring up the price of AnyDVD and the "sudden price increase." To others, like myself, who've already spent large sums of money to upgrade to HD, the price of AnyDVD HD isn't really all that high given what we feel it does for us. Do you balk at paying 100 USD for PowerDVD 7 Ultra in order to play your HD content? How about another 59 USD for the PowerDVD 8 Ultra upgrade that brings absolutely no new functionality over the existing version? If you'd pay those prices, as some of us were forced to do, then why is the current price of AnyDVD HD such a hard thing to swallow? If you wouldn't pay those prices for PowerDVD, then your position on AnyDVD HD is understandable.

It all comes down to choice. Either you feel there's value to be had in AnyDVD or you don't. No one forces you to buy it. If you feel it's too expensive, don't buy it. As a company, I feel it's their right to charge whatever they want for it. That's the beauty of the free market. If they price it too high, people will stop buying it, and the free market will correct the situation. (I.E. they'll drop the price).

In the end, I'm not going to convince you that it's worth it and you're not going to convince me that it's not. I have no real problem with that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Yours is that they've priced it too high. Mine is that it still is worth purchasing even at the current price. Such is life.

[specise_8472]

To me the reason I use AnyDVD is that it makes it that I can view multiple regions without the annoying 5 change limit screwing over my DVD Drive. Makes it worth the price.
But it does not work on laptops very much - but found a workaround by using a USB DVD.

[blutach]

It should work on laptops - why wouldn't it? It's a very low level driver.

Regards

[SamuriHL]

But it does not work on laptops very much - but found a workaround by using a USB DVD.

This part confuses me. This is not the topic of this thread so let's take this to PM, but, I run AnyDVD on my laptop and it works fine with both my internal and external DVD drives.

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

And yes, it's just a decrypter (at least in my book). It does no editing/en/transcoding/burning/other functions (for that, as DrinkLyeAndDie has observed, you need to buy another SlySoft product or the like or use freeware solutions).

Just to clarify, I didn't imply that a person needed to purchase other Slysoft products. I did because I wished to. Back when I purchased the software I knew nothing and went the easiest route which was using AnyDVD & CloneDVD for making DVD backups. I purchased CloneCD exclusively for dealing with CDs. I can count on one hand the number of times I have used CloneCD for a DVD backup. It works great but that's not why I use it.

Let us also remember the time period that I made my purchase. I don't believe CloneCD even handled DVDs back in 2003 and, to my knowledge, the AnyDVD ripper didn't even exist in AnyDVD. Rather than using another product I just picked CloneDVD. Many changes have occurred in the world of software for making backups since 2003 so taking my statement about what software I purchased and also taking the time period into account doesn't mean the same thing now as it did back then. There are many more options than there used to be.

AnyDVD along with any shareware/freeware burning software will work beautifully making full backups of SD DVDs, HD-DVDs and BDs. That is something that nobody else can offer with the ease that Slysoft does. I believe that the ease of use should also be considered a factor in the pricing. The user really doesn't have to have any intimate knowledge. It just works. So, all you really need to make a backup is a burning program. I don't see that as a problem and I think adding any type of burning engine into AnyDVD would be ludicrous.

Another very important point, IMHO, about AnyDVD and it's value is when watching discs on your HTPC that you rented. No, I'm not talking about anything wrong. I'm just talking about watching a rental on a nice HTPC. There should be no need for me to have to rip it to my HDD. With AnyDVD you don't need to. With other products you do.

Lastly, let's not forget that the 79 Euro price only applies to AnyDVD HD and not everyone needs the HD option and it isn't a required purchase. AnyDVD is 49 Euro/76.08 USD and is still a great product. SD DVD will be around for awhile and if people actually look at the release notes you see just how much work Slysoft continually puts into handling SD DVD protections along with their work on HD-DVD and BD.

Anyone can check out the trial version. If they really like the features then they can ask themselves if it's worth it. From the answer to that question either purchase the software or not.

[DigitAl56K]

I think Slysoft's move to a stable currency was inevitable, and I don't doubt we'll see many other European based companies doing the same, if not a global movement sooner or later. In fact, I've seen as much in some other sectors. I'm a hobbyist musician, and several vendors I buy from sent out newsletters last quarter informing their customers that prices in USD were going to be rising. I think, though, that the pricing jump is a little exorbitant. When I see that (based on todays rates) AnyDVD HD is going to cost me nearly $124, my instant reaction is "No way dude!! *close browser*". I genuinely love the software, but it's too much.

We'll have to let the market sort itself out, though. Even without competition, SlySoft will find that either people are willing to pay that price or that US customers stop buying. I would suspect the latter. I don't think that this is a problem limited to SlySoft, if you look around you'll probably see it from other non-US vendors. Unfortunately, given the economy, maybe these kind of price jumps are something those of us in America are going to have to get used to. That'll be a really nasty hit in the wallet if it happens on a widespread basis..

[Ajax_Undone]

This is the biggest financial flame war I have ever seen and the Mods are participating...:p

If I were the one to start this I know it would have been deleted...:confused:

So why is it being allowed to continue...

Not to be contrary to any one person but I think its a little bias toward someone elses well being and is demeaning to all involved...

[foxyshadis]

If slysoft had forced all purchases to be converted to euros from the beginning, then there would have been no one-time price hike - just a long steady price increase to everyone outside the EU over the last two years. All this did method was save everyone outside some money for a long time. In fact it's still saving some, since the dollar has fallen even further in the last few months.

My money buys less every year. It's unfortunate, but inflation is nasty here in the US lately. I just kind of have to accept that, since I'm not in the mood to move out just yet, and do what I can to make more. (Thus my reduced presence here.... well, and a new relationship.)

[linx05]

@linx05

What has my choice of encoder got to do with this thread (btw, I now, almost exclusively use HCEnc)? Most people know that I use a range of commercial and free products and donate liberally to the donationware I use (and help support).
I was trying to work out how you justified your purchases. My thought process would be if you paid that much for *that* program, why would it be such a struggle to do the same for AnyDVD HD?

It doesn't bother me you don't want to buy AnyDVD. I couldn't care less but I'm naturally a curious person by nature and can't get my head around your thought process.

[Shinigami-Sama]

US customers stop buying

how about 'pirate haven' Canada
our money is equal now

I was going to buy anydvd this summer but with that huge price jump I just can't afford it

[setarip_old]

@Ajax_UndoneThis is the biggest financial flame war I have ever seen and the Mods are participating...
If I were the one to start this I know it would have been deleted...(I shared your) Interesting observations ;>}
Lord Acton comes to mind...

[blutach]

@Ajax_Undone and setarip_old - no-one is flaming and if they were, they would be struck.

This forum stands for people being able to express their opinions in a polite manner, within forum rules.

Please leave the modding to the moderators.

Regards

[setarip_old]

@blutach

Perhaps you can openly make something eminently clear to those of us who are participating in and/or reading this thread:

In this thread, are you, as we are, acting as a member expressing his/her opinions in a polite manner, within forum rules, or are you acting as a moderator?

I ask because it seems apparent to me that your doing both concurrently makes for inhibitive "unequal footing" if one chooses to comment on something you've said in this thread.

Your thoughts will be appreciated...

[blutach]

As a member, of course (except when making a statement of moderation - eg post 75). Am I not allowed to participate in discussion because I am a mod?

And please, gimme a break about the absolute power reference.

I am trying to have an objective, polite discussion. That is it. I have views; you all have views. Sometimes we differ. Do we all wanna be sycophants? Or is a healthy debate something we can cherish?

Because I am a mod, doesn't mean that you or anyone has to agree with my views. But all posters need to observe forum rules - without snide references to, for example, Lord Acton.

Regards

[setarip_old]

As usual, we seem to have entirely different trains of thought. Any reference to the trite "absolute power" quote would have been a far too easy "cheap shot".

Actually, my reference to Lord Acton pertains to the following quote, which I believe is quite applicable to this thread:The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks.

[blutach]

And sadly, on that one, I will say that we are getting into political discussion. Please remember R15.

Regards

[Peer van Heuen]

Do you balk at paying 100 USD for PowerDVD 7 Ultra in order to play your HD content? How about another 59 USD for the PowerDVD 8 Ultra upgrade that brings absolutely no new functionality over the existing version?

Interesting, now that you mention it ;)
Has anyone ever seen CyberLink's online store? They let you choose your currency.
If you want to pay with USD, PowerDVD 8 ultra will cost roughly 100$. If you decide to pay in Euros, the price will be 80 EUR.
(or 1,20 AUD, while we're at it :) ).
Ok, let's call this a strange anomaly...

But thinking about it - you might throw in that nobody has to upgrade PowerDVD for nearly the full price if he doesn't want to.

But then he's going to be stuck with his old discs when the next revocation comes up. HD is the best thing that could happen to cyberlink et al. It forces customers to keep buying updates.
Unless, that is, if they own AnyDVD HD - then they can play MKB5 discs with their old PowerDVD 7.1 if they like :D

But it does not work on laptops very much - but found a workaround by using a USB DVD.

No specific laptop problem known - have you contacted support?

I was going to buy anydvd this summer but with that huge price jump I just can't afford it

Wait for the next discount - Blutach has already pointed out that we frequently offer those :)

[woah!]

if you want to remove bd+ then slysoft at this time is the ONLY software that can do it. that means they can charge whatever they want to as they have no competition. if you cant afford it, dont buy it, its not a god given right you know....

will there be OS software at some point for free? maybe but until then you have 1 option really, and be thankful its not more expensive to be honest...

or you could start working on a way to break open BD+ and release it for free...

[Furiousflea]

...There are fans of the program, who just don't want to objectively discuss pricing.

So true ^

[Furiousflea]

I'll talk about price which is the subject of this thread. The reason I brought up the on the fly features is precisely because I think those features DO bring value to the product. Not everything in this world is free. While it is truly awesome and excellent that a bunch of EXTREMELY talented people have brought us extraordinary freeware products like RipIt4Me, ImgBurn, VobBlanker, PGCEdit, and others, some people want to get paid for their work. I see no problem in software developers making money on their work.

So, as a result, you have to decide what kind of value to place on a product. AnyDVD, to some people, is unique in what it can do. If your only goal is to rip discs to your hard drive, then a freeware decrypter might best suit your needs. In that case, you have absolutely no reason to spend money on a product at all. IOW, there's no value that AnyDVD brings to the table to warrant purchasing it at any price.

However, AnyDVD has features that no other program currently has. The on the fly features plus the ability to remove protections from the latest HD DVD and BD's. Therefore if you DO want to back up your HD collection, AnyDVD HD is currently the ONLY way to do that. When you're spending 25-30 USD per disc on average, the price of AnyDVD HD doesn't look so bad in order to protect that investment. Again, there's NO OTHER WAY to do so.

So what is that worth? To you, not much, as is evidenced by every post in which you bring up the price of AnyDVD and the "sudden price increase." To others, like myself, who've already spent large sums of money to upgrade to HD, the price of AnyDVD HD isn't really all that high given what we feel it does for us. Do you balk at paying 100 USD for PowerDVD 7 Ultra in order to play your HD content? How about another 59 USD for the PowerDVD 8 Ultra upgrade that brings absolutely no new functionality over the existing version? If you'd pay those prices, as some of us were forced to do, then why is the current price of AnyDVD HD such a hard thing to swallow? If you wouldn't pay those prices for PowerDVD, then your position on AnyDVD HD is understandable.

It all comes down to choice. Either you feel there's value to be had in AnyDVD or you don't. No one forces you to buy it. If you feel it's too expensive, don't buy it. As a company, I feel it's their right to charge whatever they want for it. That's the beauty of the free market. If they price it too high, people will stop buying it, and the free market will correct the situation. (I.E. they'll drop the price).

In the end, I'm not going to convince you that it's worth it and you're not going to convince me that it's not. I have no real problem with that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Yours is that they've priced it too high. Mine is that it still is worth purchasing even at the current price. Such is life.

You lay a good case, albeit with an atmosphere ala PR marketing spiel, but it does sound nice to the ear :)

Basically there are numerous programs out there that can do pretty much what AnyDVD can do - I doubt anyone is buying AnyDVD for its "on the fly" bits, or very few.

An issue I have is that, like most people who will pay for it other than the ignorant. Is that we only really want the "HD" part of AnyDVD, which is E29.99 I think...

A very reasonable price, certainly not "cheap" though!

The problem is that we can't buy this "HD" bit, we have to pay for the "SD" bit too....which more than doubles the price.

Think how many customers Slysoft must have because they are the only company that can remove BD+. We're talking serious $$$$$, they could still be making serious money at E20, and most likely nobody on their team would ever need to work again...

The amount of bad press companies like microsoft get, from the same type of people that support Slysoft to the hilt make you wonder where exactly these people stand

They're both a monopoly, and they both like to milk, they both make fantastic software (people can say what they like, but if windows didn't exist, then it suddenly appeared without all the jadedness that everyone automatically applies to them...People would be amazed)...

[Furiousflea]

@blutach

Perhaps you can openly make something eminently clear to those of us who are participating in and/or reading this thread:

In this thread, are you, as we are, acting as a member expressing his/her opinions in a polite manner, within forum rules, or are you acting as a moderator?

I ask because it seems apparent to me that your doing both concurrently makes for inhibitive "unequal footing" if one chooses to comment on something you've said in this thread.

Your thoughts will be appreciated...

This is an informal discussion, with some intellectual points being made. This isn't a court room so "seperation of powers" type thing doesn't really matter does it?

[SamuriHL]

Interesting, now that you mention it ;)
Has anyone ever seen CyberLink's online store? They let you choose your currency.
If you want to pay with USD, PowerDVD 8 ultra will cost roughly 100$. If you decide to pay in Euros, the price will be 80 EUR.
(or 1,20 AUD, while we're at it :) ).
Ok, let's call this a strange anomaly...


They are not the only ones to allow you to pick your currency. That practice is done by many international companies and it is an interesting one. Depending on the current exchange rate you may or may not make out well for your particular currency. That's the inherent trouble with a world economy based on unequal currencies. :) But that's not the problem of one company, is it? That's more of a global problem that all companies (and consumers!) face.


But thinking about it - you might throw in that nobody has to upgrade PowerDVD for nearly the full price if he doesn't want to.

But then he's going to be stuck with his old discs when the next revocation comes up. HD is the best thing that could happen to cyberlink et al. It forces customers to keep buying updates.
Unless, that is, if they own AnyDVD HD - then they can play MKB5 discs with their old PowerDVD 7.1 if they like :D


That's another interesting point. I've mentioned this possibility on the Slysoft forum before...what happens if, now that 8 is out, they decide to either no longer update 7 or delay the updates so long that it becomes impractical to use it? That would, as you say, in effect force people to make the upgrade. I have personally looked at 8 and find it brings no value to me whatsoever. But I'm concerned that if we face a situation with BD Live like we did for profile 1.1 titles that we may end up with a player that doesn't work for new titles. If they choose not to "fix" it by adding BD Live support to the 7 code line, I'm screwed, regardless of the MKB v5 issue. (That one I have confidence in you guys to fix. ;) Yet another reason to purchase AnyDVD HD IMO)

So in the end we have two programs that are related to playing back HD. We have PowerDVD Ultra which cost me 100 USD and if I wanted ANOTHER 59 USD a year later just to be able to watch my discs. And we have AnyDVD HD that costs slightly more, but, comes with lifetime upgrades and protects my investment in HD DVD and BD media. (Note...I own about 20 HD DVD's. That format is dead. AnyDVD HD is the only program that allows me to back up that investment. One set of those HD DVD's cost me 150 USD. It is worth it to me to have a program that protects that investment!) Until we find out for sure whether there will be problems playing BD Live titles in PowerDVD Ultra 7, I have no reason to shell out another 59 USD for a useless "upgrade" that brings no value to me. If they release a new MKB and don't update the 7 code line, AnyDVD HD will provide even more value by allowing me to watch new titles on an older player. IMO, the price of AnyDVD HD is worth it for me.

[SamuriHL]

You lay a good case, albeit with an atmosphere ala PR marketing spiel, but it does sound nice to the ear :)


Oh man, that hurts! :D I've never considered myself a marketing person. DOH! LOL!


Basically there are numerous programs out there that can do pretty much what AnyDVD can do - I doubt anyone is buying AnyDVD for its "on the fly" bits, or very few.


Actually, I think it's far higher than most people believe. A great many people I talk to use it for the on the fly abilities. A lot of them use it for region code removal so they can watch discs outside their region on their HTPC without messing around with it. Those people have no interest at all in ripping discs. They just want to watch their discs without any issues. The subtitle transparency may seem like a fairly useless feature at first, but, have you ever had a movie where the subtitles were just in your face and ridiculously bright? With the subtitle transparency option you can soften them a little bit and make it more bearable. A nice touch.


An issue I have is that, like most people who will pay for it other than the ignorant. Is that we only really want the "HD" part of AnyDVD, which is E29.99 I think...

A very reasonable price, certainly not "cheap" though!

The problem is that we can't buy this "HD" bit, we have to pay for the "SD" bit too....which more than doubles the price.

Think how many customers Slysoft must have because they are the only company that can remove BD+. We're talking serious $$$$$, they could still be making serious money at E20, and most likely nobody on their team would ever need to work again...


That's an interesting point. Currently you can purchase a license for the SD features of AnyDVD and leave the HD features inactive, but, the reverse isn't true. I wonder if Slysoft would ever consider changing the licensing so that you could enable just the HD functions and leave the SD features inactive? I think that's something that could be asked of them. The answer may well be no, but, it doesn't hurt to ask. At the very least it's an interesting idea for discussion.


The amount of bad press companies like microsoft get, from the same type of people that support Slysoft to the hilt make you wonder where exactly these people stand

They're both a monopoly, and they both like to milk, they both make fantastic software (people can say what they like, but if windows didn't exist, then it suddenly appeared without all the jadedness that everyone automatically applies to them...People would be amazed)...

I personally have few issues with Windows. I use it daily. I use Linux, as well. I'm the type of person who uses the right software for the job. Windows works for me quite well in most of the tasks I do. The same is true of AnyDVD HD. It does everything I need and more. I personally find a lot of value in it and if I didn't already own it, I'd be willing to purchase it at the current price. That's MY personal decision, however. I fully recognize that not everyone feels the same and that some people feel the price is too high. I don't see that as being an issue, tbh.

Look at it another way...it's similar to purchasing a car. There are plenty of cars out there that are cheap and provide basic transportation. They would do the average person just fine. However, there are luxury cars that offer options that aren't entirely necessary, but, are nice to have. Some of those options might be exclusive to that particular model of car. They all provide the same basic functionality, but, the luxury car is nicer, easier to drive perhaps, and has more features. No one balks at paying more for a Ferrari than they do for a Ford Focus, yet, the basics...moving your butt from one place to another...are the same for each vehicle. You pay more for luxury. The exact same concept is true of AnyDVD HD vs the other programs on the market. AnyDVD HD is the luxury model of decrypters. (I still don't consider it solely a decrypter, but, anyway...) It provides features other decrypters do not have. Not everyone may need those features. In that case, the basic model will do. See, it's not really so hard to understand. :) If you don't want to pay the price for the luxury car, buy one with less features. :)

[blutach]

The SD vs HD is an interesting thought. As it stands now, an SD licence (admittedly which, of course, amortises the considerable R&D over the whole product) costs E49, versus competitor pricing generally around $0.

So, while it is a bit fallacious to say the HD bit is E30, I bet if it were priced there (and you only got a HD license), sales would be very much stimulated.

Perhaps Slysoft would consider this?

Regards

[DigitAl56K]

A slight side, but I think relevant in addressing competition: How goes the community effort on BD+?

[blutach]

Please address that question in Decrypting.

Regards

[elizerrojas]

i didn't really read thru the whole thread so, just in case noone point it out, whatever happen with: faddecrypter(free and undated as much as anydvd)/ vobblanker/shrink/imgburn. no need to pay, and these programs work on any tittle outthere.

[prOnorama]

80 euro seems like a little steep to me upon first look

but

The HD market is still very much niche compared to DVD, so I guess SlySoft is betting on the fact that people (still early adaptors) who are able to shell out their money on HD content they will not mind spending the extra bit on AnyDVD.

That's fair. If Blu-Ray (or another new HD format, who knows?) is ever going to be a DVD replacement then prices will inevitably drop. Of course I guess other companies will have figured out BD+ by then, it's programmed by humans and not magic.

To make SlySoft look like the demons in this is a bit ridiculous IMO, they are a business and I'm sure they have a guy who studied Economics in their office to set a price level in conjunction with the laws of supply and demand.

PS: not an early adaptor myself, I would not buy at 80 euro, 50 euro or even 30 euro, simply because I haven't jumped on the HD band wagon yet, just like the average consumer. SlySoft caters to a niche market at the moment and should BR go mass market prices will drop.

Usually you always pay the full price for new technology (X38/48 mainboards or new Intel 45nm processors for example). SlySoft offers new technology as well (without competition) so their price setting must be measured according to the level of technology offered.

[casio7131]

out of curiosity, i plotted up the price of the ordinary (ie. non-HD) version of anydvd to see how it has changed over the years (from 2003).
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/5127/slysoft01uu6.th.png (http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slysoft01uu6.png)

[casio7131]

i found another site (http://www.ozforex.com.au/forexguru.asp) that gave monthly average forex prices, so i redid the graph of anydvd prices.
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/985/slysoft02xx2.th.png (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slysoft02xx2.png)

[blutach]

@Ajax_Undone

Given your PM in the same terms and my reply, your (now deleted) post is definitely a R4 infringement. Struck for R4.

Please also delete the spam from your sig or risk a R5 strike.

Regards

[blutach]

@casio7131

Very interesting graphs. If I read them correctly, the price of AnyDVD (not HD) on 1/1/07 was around E30 and just before the 1/1/08 price rise, and even given the largish decline in the USD in the last quarter of 2007, it was about E35 - at least 15% higher than at the beginning of the year (25% in USD terms) - and all this before the recent big price hike.

As many posters have said (including me), it's their product and they can price it as they like. But posters arguing about the decrease in USD purchasing power should note your graphs carefully.

This is not to say that it is not value for money. To each his own in that regard.

Regards

[setarip_old]

@elizerrojas

Hi!i didn't really read thru the whole thread so...This thread is about the pricing of the AnyDVD "HD package" that is presently the ONLY program that can properly fully process BluRay DVDs...

[Beastie Boy]

When the HD formats launched, I was over the moon at the possibility of getting some real hiqh quality audio and video into my home cinema. However, the advanced copy protection schemes held me back as I prefer to stream media over my network rather than use my original discs.
Then I started reading the events leading upto the processing key being found and the possibility to rip HD media and thought I was sorted. But of course, AACS is not broken, and so such a breech is and was only temporary.
This is the reason I opted to purchase AnyDVDHD. It may stop working as the AACS codes are updated, but I know that the Slysoft team will be actively working to help me rip my movies, and when they do, I will be OK again.
I purchased AnyDVD before BD+ was cracked. I looked upon my payment as not just a purchase price, but also as a donation to help support their work in cracking BD+ and staying ahead of AACS. That made the price acceptable to me. I purchase very little software, but for me, this was worth the asking price (as there was a sale on at the time :) )

Cheers, Beastie.

[casio7131]

@casio7131

Very interesting graphs. If I read them correctly, the price of AnyDVD (not HD) on 1/1/07 was around E30 and just before the 1/1/08 price rise, and even given the largish decline in the USD in the last quarter of 2007, it was about E35 - at least 15% higher than at the beginning of the year (25% in USD terms) - and all this before the recent big price hike.

your reading seems fine to me.

[wnmnkh]

OK guys. Consider this.

1) the complexity of cracking that BD+
2) Targeting the niche market.
3) Does a lot of stuffs other than cracking copy protection.
4) Ensuring protection of your investment on those $$$$ stuffs (yes, if you spend only $$$, you are not in HD world yet)
5) Lifetime free support/upgrade (not charing $$~$$$ per a year)
6) One of very few companies which REAL developers and employees/ers directly talk to customers in the forum.

140$+ is dirt cheap IMHO (yes, thus I purchased the AnyDVD HD.) Even with competition, I highly doubt the price change due to all of those reasons.

By the way, if you think 140$+ is very expensive, think again. There are countless number of crappy softwares, which do absolutely nothing, cost about same or even more.

WinDVD, for example, probably the worst piece of software written by human kind ever, costs you 100$ bucks without tax.

Adobe Premiere Pro which I bought a few years ago, while it is actually good to use, demanding whooping 300 bucks only for a update (still better than 800 bucks... but..)

PowerDVD, while a bit more usable than WinDVD, it is slow as hell, tons of errors and problems, costs you 100$ and 60$ more if you want the latest version.

Those so called 'dvd rippers,' while do no more than free Imgburn, cost around 40~80$.

It is not a software, but Creative, selling those expensive 200$ sound cards, intendedly cripple their products' functions to force customers to buy new ones.

You know, there are so many rip-offs on software pricing, and Slysoft is in fact one of the few cases that having reasonable pricing.

[linx05]

I agree wnmnkh. There are many programs out which cost too much. Procoder was my example. Silly me was going to purchase it a couple of years ago. I came to my senses and realised for what it did, it was simply not worth the money.

And that's where AnyDVD HD is different. I have just moved into a new house this year and we are in the process of adding a HTPC to the theatre room. We will be going halves in AnyDVD HD so we can play all the latest Bluray (sigh) movies we're getting (plus my single HD DVD disc).

blutach, is there something else to your reasoning? Because I truthfully cannot work it out.

[blutach]

@linx05 - if you wish to discuss the merits of Procoder, please start a new thread. Try to stay on topic in this one.

And trying to find out my motives for buying or not buying anything is hardly objective or relevant - it is simply one person's feeling. I am trying in this discussion to stay objective - i.e. examining measurable facts which don't simply reflect how I feel.

Regards