Blu-Ray MultiAngle

[bbjay]

I have a large project coming up for BD that requires multiple angles (3). Before I get the evaluation of Scenarist 4 BD has anyone tried to do accomplish this and if so is BD-J required or can this be done in the HDMV mode and how?

I know from what our Sonic Rep says that it does support multiangle muxing but dont want to waste the 30 day eval trying to figure it out how to do this or learning Java in less than 30 days. It is impossible to even find a company that will take on this project. We found one and it was a $10000 quote. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Would the Sony's Blu-print be a better way to go?

Thanks in advance.

[Eric69]

HDMV does support mulit-angles. Blu Print is easier to work with IMO but costs $60 Gs out the door. Don't know how much experience you have with the spec but don't expect miracles in 30 days..both tools have bugs and will take some experimenting on yours and Sonic's part.

Also remember, you will have the 1st multi-angle BD title in the world here so your going into un-charted territory.

I'd be more than willing help with your project - just to see how things go. We use Blu-Print.

PM me if you'd like

[Pelican9]

Also remember, you will have the 1st multi-angle BD title in the world here so your going into un-charted territory.

Oh, is it true?
No multi-angle title BD released yet?
I'm looking for it to test my program.


Edit:
After a little research I've found some titles with multi-angle feature.
For example:
Gridiron Gang
The Legend Of Zorro
Incubus: Alive at Red Rocks
etc.

[digitalvideo]

Hello to All,

I have make a test with one pip in hdmv with sonic and it work.
The problem is that non 1.1 profile player not play it. In the case of profile 1.0 you have put the movie with pip burn in it. You can test psr31 for profile.

For info and bitbudgeting, if you make a multi angle you have to duplicate the audio in all angle (not same as sd). Is it the same with blu-print?

[bbjay]

I do know that the Nine Inch Nails Beside you In Time Bluray has multiangle.

I was actually thinking about the PIP solution as an alternative to multiangle.

Is multiangle in Bluray somewhat the same with SD in that the GOP structure needs to be exact and closed GOPS?

Evaluation coming in the next day or two so I will begin a long testing process.

[Eric69]

Oh Wow! I didn't know that...thanks. Let us know how the evaluation testing goes.

[hamletiii]

Hello to All,

I have make a test with one pip in hdmv with sonic and it work.
The problem is that non 1.1 profile player not play it. In the case of profile 1.0 you have put the movie with pip burn in it. You can test psr31 for profile.

For info and bitbudgeting, if you make a multi angle you have to duplicate the audio in all angle (not same as sd). Is it the same with blu-print?


In SD, multi-angle has non-seamless and seamless. The default mode is seamless which accosiates all video angles with the same audio and subtitle. Whlie for non-seamless angle, you have to put audio and subtitle into each individual angle, kind like what you described here. A neat thing for non-seamless angle is that you can put different audio and subtitles for each angle, but they do switch slower than seamless angle on standalone machines.

For Blu-ray, I think the Ratatouille from Disney also uses multi-angle, I've seen people asking how to disable the angle icon on certain blu-ray standalones.

[Pelican9]

For Blu-ray, I think the Ratatouille from Disney also uses multi-angle
Confirmed, it contains.

[ragfoo]

if you still need this project, or need any other bd projects authored professionally my former employer authors bluray affordably.

contact left coast digital at info@lcdig.com.

tell them ragfoo referred you and they will give you an even better price.

[DieHard]

Is the multiangle setup simply secondary video streams within the same clip as the primary stream or is it setup as an out-of-mux sync PIP stream that has been set to fullscreen? I've noticed there are no 'multiangle' streams or subpaths within Scenarist HDMV.

[2themax]

Multi-angle in Scenarist is achieved by placing multiple Primary Video Clips within the same PlayItem.

[DieHard]

Hmmm. I tried that and I got:

Error : It is not possible to add Clip to PlayItem, because PlayItem has already had Main Clip.

That was using 2 different clips set as type video with primary video clips. Both have the same encoding (23.976 720p AVC). So what am I doing wrong?

Edit: Nevermind, I figured it out. I tried dragging and dropping the second (angle) clip into the main clip area which is I guess why it wouldn't work. I then tried just dragging it onto the PlayItem within the StreamTree and it added it as Angle#1.

[DieHard]

Ok. Now I have two clips added to the same playitem, one as primary and one as angle#1, however I have now run into another error. I have tried setting the playitem property "Is Seamless Angle Change" as both True and False with different errors while MUXing. It loads and starts the muxing fine, however when I get to MUXing those items I get:

2008-03-31T00:02:11Z|ERROR|MUX_SN_E_TS_UNKNOW_ERR|E:\HDMV_projects\TestJava1\Output\MUX\Disc\DB\BDMV\STREAM/00008.m2ts|0|Unknown Error|tswrapper.dll::CTSWrapper::ProcThreadMain::Video mui item number does not equal.|

when trying with the "Is Seamless Angle Change" set to true and:

2008-03-31T00:52:37Z|ERROR|MUX_SN_E_TS_CREATE_EXTENT_INFO_ERR|E:\HDMV_projects\TestJava1\Output\MUX\Disc\DB\BDMV\STREAM/00009.m2ts|0|Failed in making extent.ifo|tswrapper.dll::CTSWrapper::ProcThreadMain::Cannot create partial extent. (Maximum angle point length is shorter than partial extent size.)

when set to false.

Both angles have primary audio and video tracks (so it would be preferable to have the seamless set to true so they can each have their own audio) but just getting it to MUX with both tracks period would be a start. What is the extent size and how do I deal with it?

[bbjay]

I am getting this same error in my multi angle tests as well.

[2themax]

Multi-angle is a very hands-on operation. There's 2 more things you'll have to do in order to get things to work successfully.

1. - In the Mux windows, open Other Options and check Keep same angle extent size.

2. - In each Clip that is being used as an angle, you'll have to adjust the TSRecordingRate. This is where the work will be involved. You want keep it as high as possible, 48,000,000 being the highest, without getting an error during the mux. The higher that rate, the better the chance the switch between angles will be seamless.

[DieHard]

Hmmm. Another question: is it possible to have different lengths (time-wise) between the original primary video track and the angle video track or do they have to be the same? I noticed the errors were occuring when I used two video tracks that had all the same encoding (framerate/codec/aspect/etc) but had different time lengths, even when setting 'Keep same angle extent size'.

When I used two clips with the same lengths and set 'Keep same angle extent size' it seemed to MUX (without touching the TSRecordingRate). Can I use two different length clips if I do fool around with the TSRecordingRate? Or is it possible to force them to the same size by say adding a PLMark at the point where the original primary video track extends beyond the angle track?

Edit: Also encountered another oddity. I have 'Is Seamless Angle Change' set to True with a pop-up menu that changes angle tracks (or even just using the angle button on the remote as both do the same thing) yet the video/audio don't change during the playing track. If I press the Prev button on my remote to start the track playing back again, then it changes and plays the angle stream video and audio. Isn't setting 'Is Seamless Angle Change' to True supposed to automatically switch tracks mid-stream while setting it to False would mean you would have to start the track again from the beginning (like what it is doing to me now?)

Update: Discovered another oddity. I thought maybe changing that TSRecordingRate from -1 to 48,000,000 might potentially solve the problem, but it didn't. However, in my testing I did notice something. Playing the video straight it doesn't change. If I press the back Slow/Step button on the remote while watching and then unpause it, it changes streams. This of course is nowhere close to ideal since it means you have to press the backstep button and then play or pause button to switch angles, but it does mean the angles are being recognized properly at least. I wonder, do I need to place PLMark/Chapter Marks anywhere that I want the video to be able to change? Like, if I add a PLMark at xx:xx:xx.xxx will it then switch tracks at that point? Or should it switch without needing those?

[DieHard]

Update: Tried adding PLMarks both as Entry Marks and Link Points (even though I don't know what the difference is supposed to be) and neither work to change the stream when the angle changes during playback. I noticed while testing in PowerDVD that when I select the other angle via PowerDVD's pop-up menu if I check it again it is still on the same angle, so it must be storing the angle change or something since it does change the angle if I press the Prev or (back frame) Step buttons.

Edit: Just to be sure about something to see if it is correct, these are the button commands I have to change streams:

1 SetStream PG_textST:[DispOFF] Angle:No=1

and

1 SetStream PG_textST:[DispOFF] Angle:No=2

[2themax]

Try this. Go into Disc Layout and then over to Physical File Layout. Hit Auto Layout and on the left, there should be an Interleave. Make sure the transport streams that are the multiple angles are listed within it. Hit OK and remux the data.

The angle commands look OK. I don't remember doing more than that to change an angle.

[bbjay]

OK. Got it to mux fine. I adjusted the TSRecordrecordingrate to 40,000,000 for each clip. when I preview in Power DVD it shows the three angles but when I goto switch it doesnt switch angles. It will say which angle I am on but doesn't switch. my clip is only 10 seconds long, does it take more time to switch angles?

[DieHard]

It actually added an Interleave that wasn't there before, however it didn't seem to change anything in the final output. I go to switch angles and they don't change unless I press the Prev button to go back to the start of the clip or I press the Step back button and then unpause it, in which case the angles do change but they won't change mid-stream.

[bbjay]

I ended up getting it to mux error-free and it playsback correctly in PowerDVD.

I lengthened my clips to one minute, and then followed the instructions above.

[2themax]

Glad to hear you finally got it working. BTW, which version of Scenarist are you using?

[DieHard]

Mine MUXes fine, just doesn't play back and change streams without doing what I mentioned. Does yours switch at the moment you try to change angles or is there a time-delay? I've been attempting it with 30 second clips to no success. I guess I'll have to create a couple test minute+ clips to see if that makes a difference.

I'm working with Scenarist BD 4.3, the latest version.

Edit: Interestingly I tried using two AVC tracks that are over 43 minutes each and it now seems to work properly. There is a very slight pause in between each stream but that is to be expected since they each have their own video and audio. However, it looks as if one of the two audio tracks might be slightly out of sync while the other is perfect. I'm wondering if that is due to the fact that the tracks have slightly different lengths to them and if they had the exact same length then there would be no problems.

Question about how people normally have multiangles mixed in with normal content: is there an easy way to add a small chunk of angle video to a full single track and link it to a specific time or is it better to split the full track up and place normal content without angles into one PlayItem, then the portion containing angles into another PlayItem, then normal content in yet another PlayItem?

[2themax]

I'm working with Scenarist BD 4.3, the latest version.

Actually, 4.5 is latest release. It just arrived last week.

Edit: Interestingly I tried using two AVC tracks that are over 43 minutes each and it now seems to work properly. There is a very slight pause in between each stream but that is to be expected since they each have their own video and audio. However, it looks as if one of the two audio tracks might be slightly out of sync while the other is perfect. I'm wondering if that is due to the fact that the tracks have slightly different lengths to them and if they had the exact same length then there would be no problems.

You could try trimming the duration of the longer track in the Clip.

Question about how people normally have multiangles mixed in with normal content: is there an easy way to add a small chunk of angle video to a full single track and link it to a specific time or is it better to split the full track up and place normal content without angles into one PlayItem, then the portion containing angles into another PlayItem, then normal content in yet another PlayItem?
I've done so with seamless branching between PlayItems with multiple angles and PlayItems with one angle. You could also throw black video into the other angles in PlayItems where there is only one actually angle available.

[speedyrazor]

Hi, great bits of info on this thread. I have one long concert and want to have a couple of tracks that are multi-angle, all seamless as possible. Whats the best way to do this?

Regards.

[mp3dom]

2. - In each Clip that is being used as an angle, you'll have to adjust the TSRecordingRate. This is where the work will be involved. You want keep it as high as possible, 48,000,000 being the highest, without getting an error during the mux. The higher that rate, the better the chance the switch between angles will be seamless.

According to Sonic Knowledge Base, the TSRecordingRate should be as low as possible to have more chance to a seamless angle switch. Infact the low you try to keep the TSRecordingRate, the high the chance to have muxing errors.
I'm sorry to bump up this old thread, but I'm currently making a multiangle BD so I've red this interesting post.
I've anyway a question: during multiangle you have clips with one angle seamlessy connected to clip with multiangle. Since the audio tracks are dolby/dts, is there a way to have a 'seamless' audio during the connection between different clips? Even if the clips are seamlessy connected, sometimes the connection is audible when listening the playlist (this happends sometimes when the player is decoding the dolby/dts to lpcm, but doesn't happends when the player is bitstreaming the audio to an amplifier). Is there a fix? :thanks: