Help needed getting VirtualVCR to begin capturing

[torpare]

I'm trying to capture movies recorded off TV onto VHS tapes, for burning to DVD. Most were recorded at 'extended play' so the quality is pretty awful. I'd like to end up with the least bad results possible.

I've begun by capturing to MPEG2 using a USB hardware decoder (Terratec Grabster). It doesn't seem to make a noticeable difference whether I capture at half or full D1 (I use VBR, maximum never above 6000); when using full D1 I resize to half during the subsequent stages. I wasn't expecting wonders but even so the results have disappointed me. I'm aware that with these tapes as a source the quality is never going to be better than moderate but from what I've read in this forum I could expect to get better results if I captured to avi and did it the hard way, including trying various fllters during encoding. If only I could learn how to do it.

I've tried hard - I really have - to understand the minimum necessary. I must have read some hundreds of pages of material, over many many weeks, in this forum and others, and the amount I've understood would fit comfortably on one sheet of A4. Before throwing in the towel (because I hate to admit defeat, and to waste all the time I've already invested), I thought I'd make one last try by seeking help here.

My setup:-

ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 mobo
Core2 Duo E4500 CPU running at 2.2GHz (not o/c'd)
2GB DDR2 RAM
1 SATA HDD 160 GB
1 SATA HDD 320GB
Asus V9520 Video Suite Gfx card/NVidia FX5200 GPU 128 MB RAM; VIVO
Digital 16:9 monitor
16:9 LCD TV with RGB connection
JVC HR-S8850 S-VHS VCR with TBC/NR
o/s Win XP Home

First stumbling-block is to start to capture. My Asus gfx card doubles as my capture card; it has a Philips chip so I can't use VirtualDub (not without a wrapper anyway which would introduce a further complication), therefore I've opted for VirtualVCR. This doesn't detect any signal from my VCR, and also gives me an error message saying "can't start graph". Doom9's capturing FAQ says:- "When using a Philips based card, the OVERLAY mode has to be activated!!" How do I do that? Anyway, when all I'm doing is connecting a VCR to my capture card where does overlay come into it?

Trying to fathom VirtualVCR's error message I started Graphedit. I'm attaching the graph for VirtualVCR; it has an overlay mixer, which is greyed-out and unconnected to anything else. Is this, I ask myself, why VirtualVCR can't start the graph? Is this what the FAQ means by "activating overlay mode"? If so, how do I get Graphedit to link it into the filter chain? One of the many things I haven't understood is how to work with Graphedit, and I have yet to find any idiot's guide to tell me how to.

I'll leave it there because before being even able to begin capturing there's no point in my asking any more questions. Any help to get me started would be warmly appreciated.

[PhillipWyllie]

I've been capturing since i registered at doom9 and I don't even know how graph edit works. I suggest getting an other (analogue)capture card, that way you'll be able to get the sound too. I have a digital capture card that has analogue functionality but I get a lot of grief when I try to capture an analogue signal. When you do get another one(or get your Gfx card to capture correctly) capture to your 320Gb SATA drive uncompressed in the YUY2 colour-space. If it can't handle this(mine does) then use a lossless compression(HuffYUV is a recomendation).

As far as I know analogue capturing is done somewhat through your Gfx card, and that's why you need overlay(and also why you're getting grief). Setting the overlay mode in VDub is done by entering capture mode(file -> capture avi), then selecting your device(device -> your GfxCard), then video -> overlay(shortcut O). I prefer VirtualVCR to VDub for capturing as you can minimise VirtualVCR whilst capturing(you can't with VDub), although VDub has the option to spill drives(you won't need this with a 320Gb SATA drive)

Once you've finished your capture you can then edit the capture in VDub, Avisynth(avisynth being my recomendation). You can apply some filtering to improve the video(noise for example). One happy with the result you can then frame-serve to your favourite MPEG-2 encoder, or HDD space permitting save an uncompressed YUY2 avi(will be faster in a multi-pass VBR MPEG-2 encode).

[fibbingbear]

Hey Torpare.

As someone who has a similar card (MSI GeForce FX 5900 with VIVO), let me tell you that it took me forever to get the drivers working with that card. Nvidia's support is, unfortunately, pretty terrible for VIVO.

The first question is: can you install the drivers with no problems?
I know I got lots of crashes. Note that the VIVO drivers are separate from the graphics card drivers (in general).

If you still have the original CD that came with your video card, check for the VIVO drivers on there. If not, you'll need to download drivers from Nvidia.

Be warned that messing around with finding the right driver might bork your system (it certainly borked mine several times). Have system restore ready, and also be ready to possibly need to format/install Windows from scratch. This is a worst-case scenario, but it can happen (that's how bad the Nvidia drivers were for me).
For me, all their "latest versions" were borked and screwed up my system. I had to use the 4.09 version (I think that's the one I used...), as opposed to 4.13 (none of the 2.x versions worked for me, despite the fact that 2.x was designed for the FX series).

The second question is: do you have a dongle for input? My VIVO card required an adapter --- make sure that 1.) you've plugged it into the "In" port of the adapter (not the "out" port), and 2.) VirtualVCR is set to use Composite or S-Video, depending on which one you're using (otherwise the signal will be borked).

Note that I did not have to set the overlay for my VIVO card to work. After the painful experience of driver installation, it just worked.

I agree with most of PhillipWyllie's comments (when you do get it working, use huffyuv, etc.), except his statement of getting a new capture card. You don't need a separate card for the audio. Just get a Y-converter (2-female to 1-male mini-jack) and you can capture the audio on your line-in on either the mobo or a sound card (assuming you have some red/white cables for stereo sound for your VCR). The converter will cost no more than a few bucks. That's how I do it.

As a side note, I have 3 capture cards at home: GeForce FX VIVO, Leadtek WinFast, and ATI Theatrix Pro 650. The capture differences between them are minimal, but the Leadtek and ATI are slightly better (it's pretty marginal, but noticeable if you zoom in, and even if you disable the hardware filters). Also note that the GeForce FX does *not* mess with the levels (it leaves them as TV levels), while the other two cards do mess with levels (so you'd probably want to convert them back). So less conversion work if you stick with the Geforce.

If you do plan to get a new card (not that I think you need one): for driver nightmares, both ATI and Nvidia were horrible for me --- constant system crashes while trying to find the right version of a driver. Leadtek was pain-free. If you want a cheap, alternative card, it's not a bad choice in my experience.

[PhillipWyllie]

I stand corrected on the audio front. I still maintain that Torpare should invest in a separate analogue capture card. My reasoning: although you can dry your socks in a microwave, a tumble-dryer is much better at it. :)

[torpare]

Thanks for helpful comments, guys. I'm digesting them.

fibbingbear said can you install the drivers with no problems?For me, all their "latest versions" were borked and screwed up my system. I had to use the 4.09 version (I think that's the one I used...), as opposed to 4.13 (none of the 2.x versions worked for me, despite the fact that 2.x was designed for the FX series).I'm using ver.2.26_wdm-vivo which I downloaded from NVidia's website. It certainly hasn't screwed-up my system; however, neither is the capture chip detecting (yet) any signal. I don't know whether this is because of the driver or for some other reason but - until I get to the bottom of that error message (about not being able to start the graph) and the mystery of the unconnected overlay mixer in the filter graph - I'm reluctant to blame NVidia's driver. If you see what I mean.
The second question is: do you have a dongle for input? My VIVO card required an adapter --- make sure that 1.) you've plugged it into the "In" port of the adapter (not the "out" port), and 2.) VirtualVCR is set to use Composite or S-Video, depending on which one you're usingPoints well taken. If I had plugged the cable into the 'out' instead of the 'in' it wouldn't be the first time:) However this time I haven't. Yes, I do have a dongle; I'm using composite and that's what I've set VirtualVCR to. It's very frustrating because as far as I can see (unless I'm still missing something) everything's correctly set-up but the frigging thing still won't work!

@PhilipWylie But since the microwave does dry the socks and it would cost me to buy a spindryer, I'm inclined to soldier on with the microwave:D

[fibbingbear]

I'm using ver.2.26_wdm-vivo which I downloaded from NVidia's website. It certainly hasn't screwed-up my system; however, neither is the capture chip detecting (yet) any signal. I don't know whether this is because of the driver or for some other reason but - until I get to the bottom of that error message (about not being able to start the graph) and the mystery of the unconnected overlay mixer in the filter graph - I'm reluctant to blame NVidia's driver. If you see what I mean.

Yeah, the error seems weird. When the WDM drivers weren't installed correctly, I couldn't even select the device in VirtualVCR. That doesn't sound like the problem you're having.


If I had plugged the cable into the 'out' instead of the 'in' it wouldn't be the first time:) However this time I haven't. Yes, I do have a dongle; I'm using composite and that's what I've set VirtualVCR to.

Hehe, just checking --- that took me a while to figure out when I first set up my card :p

Out of curiosity, when you set the capture stream to uncompressed AVI, do you still get the "cannot capture graph" error? I remember someone else had a problem similar to it:
http://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-27824.html

If my understanding is correct, the overlay mode should not be affecting the graph problems. If overlay wasn't set correctly, the signal should just be blank... although I'm not 100% sure.

[torpare]

Out of curiosity, when you set the capture stream to uncompressed AVI, do you still get the "cannot capture graph" error? @ fibbingbear
Yes I do.

I'm getting the distinct feeling (since these error codes are Microsoft's) that there's something amiss in my Windows installation. I use nLight to remove the Windows components I most dislike and I'm wondering if it may be one of the ones I removed which has led to the problem.

The only way to check that possibility would be to start again from the beginning and this time leave nothing out. That prospect fills me with total gloom:( And I could find that the problem's still there anyway. That's why I had hoped that someone might be able to come up with an exact prescription, on the basis of having experienced the same problem with Virtual VCR and found the solution.

Seems I'm out of luck.

[torpare]

Further to post #7.

Trying another alternative, I've opened VDubMod. Firstly, this thinks I've got another device already in use (VirtualVCR? - but that's not open (and I've re-started my PC, to make sure); if not VirtualVCR then what?)

Secondly, it doesn't find the NVidia WDM driver which I pointed it to (which VirtualVCR did find).

Are these two things connected? Can anyone tell me what I might try next?

[fibbingbear]

Hey Torpare. Sorry, this behavior is outside of my realm of knowledge --- never ran across what you're experiencing. :( I'm not familiar with nLight, but it's possible that's causing a problem(?)

You could always try a re-format from scratch, clean windows install, but that's a bit extreme since you'd lose all your data:p