BD+: a "short-term solution" suggestion

[Inventive Software]

I just thought of something. Bear with me, I may be talking out of my arse. :D

If BD+ is, as most seem to theorise, extra code on the Blu-Ray Disc that runs a VM, can this code be copied along with the M2TS files so that all is needed is to play it in, say, PowerDVD Ultra?

And another thing, does AACS come after or before BD+ in the decryption chain?

[bcrabl]

I just thought of something. Bear with me, I may be talking out of my arse. :D

If BD+ is, as most seem to theorise, extra code on the Blu-Ray Disc that runs a VM, can this code be copied along with the M2TS files so that all is needed is to play it in, say, PowerDVD Ultra?

And another thing, does AACS come after or before BD+ in the decryption chain?

1) One of the first versions of PDVD supporting BD+ had a vulnerability allowing AACS stripped Blu-rays to play irrespective if they had BD+ protection or not. In other words PDVD did not make a check if the BD was coming from a disk or from a folder in the hard drive. So as usual it decrypted the BD+ as usual.

2)AACS comes before BD+. BD+ files are "aacs encrypted".

[Doom9]

One of the first versions of PDVD supporting BD+ had a vulnerabilitywhich has long since been corrected though. Suppose if you need any of the changes made since that "feature" was removed, you're out of luck unless BD+ is defeated at some point in the future.

[bcrabl]

Well can Geremia or someone else find the Drive certificate? Then a virtual Blu-ray drive would be created and a permanent solution would be found for making backups. Well no reencodes with this method...

[Doom9]

Could you elaborate? I don't see how this would get us anywhere. PowerDVD simply refuses to Play BD+ content unless you revert to an old version (sooner or later they'll start making discs that force you to upgrade so that's no solution) unless there's both AACS and BD+ present.

[KenD00]

I bet he wants to make an ISO of an encrypted disc, mount it into this virtual drive, let PowerDVD think "oh, a protected disc inside a BluRay drive, lets do the AACS and BD+ thing" and everything runs fine.

Well, this won't work because you need a (revokable) Host Certificate to get the Volume ID from the disc and because of this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1105939#post1105939).

:rolleyes:

[Inventive Software]

1) One of the first versions of PDVD supporting BD+ had a vulnerability allowing AACS stripped Blu-rays to play irrespective if they had BD+ protection or not. In other words PDVD did not make a check if the BD was coming from a disk or from a folder in the hard drive. So as usual it decrypted the BD+ as usual.

2)AACS comes before BD+. BD+ files are "aacs encrypted".

Well, 2) answers my second question, so here's a further thought, elaborating (sort of) on my original question.

Could the BD+ bastardisation (since there's no other word for it in all honesty) be transferred along with the M2TS files? I'm a little behind in the decryption saga, but knowing when/where BD+ is in playback, and its potential locations in memory, there's a way, right?

And, for the record, I don't have any HD discs, but am keenly interested in the "decryption for Fair Use" methodology. :)

[Doom9]

Could the BD+ bastardisation (since there's no other word for it in all honesty) be transferred along with the M2TS files?That was already answered by the first responder:

1) One of the first versions of PDVD supporting BD+ had a vulnerability allowing AACS stripped Blu-rays to play irrespective if they had BD+ protection or not. That's exactly what that means.. you have a movie which is just BD+ protected and if you copy the VM, then PowerDVD version 3319a would play it. Some standalones might also play it (or might have.. I'm sure that's a "feature" they are keep on removing with firmware upgrades).

But just rehashing what we already know gets us nowhere. If you want to do something, get a BD drive, install PowerDVD, get a BD+ disc and get cracking. In the end, anything that leaves BD+ around is no solution. Blank dual layer discs cost as much or more as the movie, playing from your HD with an outdated PowerDVD is neither.. only a fully decrypted M2TS is really useful as we can do with those whatever we like.

[bcrabl]

I bet he wants to make an ISO of an encrypted disc, mount it into this virtual drive, let PowerDVD think "oh, a protected disc inside a BluRay drive, lets do the AACS and BD+ thing" and everything runs fine.

Well, this won't work because you need a (revokable) Host Certificate to get the Volume ID from the disc and because of this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1105939#post1105939).

:rolleyes:

We have other means to get the volume ID (unencrypted bus, hacked firmware, special commands). I do not know if every single drive has a different drive key, but anyways if we can get one key, we can get them all. What I mean, they are NOT gonna blacklist all drives of the same model without infuriating everybody that bought that model.

So a drive key is somewhere hidden in the firmaware waiting to be found. And yes we can use it afterwards.

[KenD00]

We have other means to get the volume ID (unencrypted bus, hacked firmware, special commands).

We have one hacked drive that allows us to read out the VID, and this only for HD-DVDs. And i think bus sniffing is a little bit too technical for the average Jon Doe...

they are NOT gonna blacklist all drives of the same model without infuriating everybody that bought that model.

They blacklisted ALL PowerDVDs...

So a drive key is somewhere hidden in the firmaware waiting to be found. And yes we can use it afterwards.

And it seems its hiding there quite good. I am not an expert in hacking stuff but what do you think is more difficult, reverse engineering a highly encrypted, maybe even physically protected firmware or a higly encrypted software player? And the first way only leads to a (temporary!!) solution to make encrypted copies you can only watch but by using the second way you can do what you want with your movie, and that PERMANENTLY with that movie, only future ones require new work!

:rolleyes:

[HyperHacker]

PowerDVD is software. Revoking it doesn't have the same consequences.

[KenD00]

Firmware is software too ;). We are living in the HD age, discs feature online content, standalone players have an ethernet port (currently only the HD-DVD ones :p), and even the standalone folks have to live with firmware updates (i think it was the AACS specification which forces the manufacturers to make the firmware update as easy and seamless as possible). Some of my movies contain a little piece of paper which says "...your HD DVD disc player may need a firmware or software update. ...".

Of course, the standalone people are usually not as tech savvy as the computer people... no HD for dumb people :D.

<sarcasm>
But this is what the consumer wants, and the consumer gets what he want. The consumer wants HD, the consumer wants to be sure that he cannot accidentically violate the copyright owners rights, and the consumer wants BluRay.
</sarcasm>

:rolleyes:

[musicman2311]

I want to share a finding I had concerning BD+.

PS3 when seeing an non AACS disc with BD+ issues a 'firmware' message and plays the movie with distortions.
it also plays the m2ts file only with same disturbances (pixelization).

Nero 8 showtime plays the m2ts file (not the disc) in a way that it seems to take out the faulty parts. As a result it stutters but there is no pixelization.

what I suggest here is that it can obviously identify which frames (or GOPs) are 'not right' and simply ignore those.
Means for all the bitstream experts on here (which I am definetely not), should that be a way to identify what's 'wrong" with a BD+ stream ? it seems it can be detected (my guess).

maybe a BD+ solution could be derived from that ?

just an idea - hopefully useful food for thought ...

[Peer van Heuen]

maybe a BD+ solution could be derived from that ?


I'll add: MPlayer will even crash at some locations with BD+ mess, because those TS packets are garbled.
It will not notice any problems with several others, only you will.

I'd guess that Nero simply has different error detection/correction strategies to skip faulty video data.
Whatever: you will not be able to create any satisfying automatic recovery with this - the result will always be bad, too much video data is missing.

Especially when key frames are involved...

[musicman2311]

thanks, Peer,
I was afraid you'd say something like that.
Good luck !

[bcrabl]

I'll add: MPlayer will even crash at some locations with BD+ mess, because those TS packets are garbled.
It will not notice any problems with several others, only you will.

I'd guess that Nero simply has different error detection/correction strategies to skip faulty video data.
Whatever: you will not be able to create any satisfying automatic recovery with this - the result will always be bad, too much video data is missing.

Especially when key frames are involved...

You will most probably not answear it, but do we know anything about the scrambling/unscrabling algorithm?

[bob0r]

A working BD+ copy version will be released at the best economical moment. But until then, its up to the script kids!