Archiving DVD collection -> *.divx container?

[casperse]

Hi All

I have a really large DVD collection and my plan was to take that and encode it to a archieve on a BIG TeraByte storage.

Now I have found that I can keep all the things I like Menu, multiple subtitles , and sound streams in one container!

Is there other solution out there with the same function?
Any other "container" that can store this...
And is there any HW or other SW that can play this on my network? I have some XBMC that are great, but I dont think they support the new container..

I have tried AutoGknot with avi and Surround sound but that always makes the Subs out of sync :mad: I guess I could live with out a menu...but not with the SUB sync issues.

I think alot of other people must have the same issues....
With Hard Drives becomming so large and cheap its great to have a online
movie collection in every room and no kids to break you DVD´s

Only problem is that it need to be some what "future proof" for hardware players if possible..

Update: Just found the new TVIX M-6500A it now supports the mkv format so if I could somhow convert my DVD with subtitles and surround it look like it will be supported in the future?

Best regards
Casperse

Options sofar:

http://ratdvd.ca/ *.rat
http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/tda3_feature.html *.DivX
http://www.fairusewizard.com/lang_en/fairuse_wizard_dvd_divx_xvid_backup_tool_light_edition.html avi + sub/srt
http://www.simpledivx.org/main/
http://www.autogk.me.uk/ avi + sub/srt (Sync issues!)

UPDATE....
IMPORTANT XBMC LIMITATIONS WHEN ENCODING : http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/wiki/index.php?title=Supported_File_Formats
This have a big impact if you want to use your XBOX to watch your archieved movies...(There is special filters for 264 that minimize bitrate but the x264 + the ACC Audio does strain the 700Mhz CPU in the XBOX!)
So if you want to keep the DVD resolution when archeiving and be sure to play the movies on your HW/XBOX etc make a MKV container with MPEG-4 ASP (H.263 video like DivX and XviD) and not MPEG-4 AVC (H.264 video like x264)

[alfixdvd]

Popcorn Hour A-100 is a good and cheap alternative to TVIX M-6500A.

Both use Sigma SMP8635.

Popcorn has more frequent firmwares updates to solve problems.

Tvix has problems with subtitles in mkv since 4100 model.

[casperse]

Popcorn Hour A-100 is a good and cheap alternative to TVIX M-6500A.
Both use Sigma SMP8635.
Popcorn has more frequent firmwares updates to solve problems.
Tvix has problems with subtitles in mkv since 4100 model.

So this would mean that I should archieve my movies in the mkv format (xvid + ogm) with GordianKnot ? at least this "Popcorn Hour" HW seems to support subs in that with different sound channels...
And I can always extract the avi from mkv later or convert it if I have to...I gues?

Still the *.Divx format is so easy to do one program and your done....but if no HW supports the format then its useless

[alfixdvd]

mkv (h264(mp4) + AAC)

or

mkv (h264)(mp4) + AC3)

H264 has more quality then H263 (xvid) and let you to retain the original resolution of DVD, it is not necessary resize if you do not want

[casperse]

mkv (h264(mp4) + AAC)

or

mkv (h264)(mp4) + AC3)

H264 has more quality then H263 (xvid) and let you to retain the original resolution of DVD, it is not necessary resize if you do not want

Yes I just tested this from a file on the internet.
And it worked with Subtites and Different sound tracks!
On my XBMC (XBOX) and the quality was GREAT even if the size was small and it was encoded anamophic so full scren was perfect!

I think I have a Winner here!

Now the next question is do anybody know of a Quick SW Tool to do this... DVD --> MKV with (h264)(mp4) + AC3 or AAC) ????

[alfixdvd]

Look at http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=78

Megui, AutoMkv, etc.

[shon3i]

mkv (h264(mp4) + AAC)

or

mkv (h264)(mp4) + AC3)

H264 has more quality then H263 (xvid) and let you to retain the original resolution of DVD, it is not necessary resize if you do not want
Xvid and DivX are more than simple H263, and i don't know where you hear that you need resize (downsize) if you want keep quality with Xvid?

Nowdays, Xvid can easly rich original transparency comparing to H264.

[casperse]

Xvid and DivX are more than simple H263, and i don't know where you hear that you need resize (downsize) if you want keep quality with Xvid?

Nowdays, Xvid can easly rich original transparency comparing to H264.

If we are talking picture quality compared to size then 264 is the king!

If you don belive me check this out:
DivX,Xvid,264 in high Quality and check the size its almost the same! (http://www.dvd-guides.com/component/option,com_docman/task,cat_view/gid,97/Itemid,92/)

When you have downloaded the clips then try to play them full screen...like you would do on a HDV LCD screen and see why this is better when you want to see your old DVD archieved in 264. (-;

History behind this test and 264 is the future codec...Click here (http://www.dvd-guides.com/content/view/143/59/)

The only problem is that it takes time! a Quad Core would be nice! and the SW tools is not one but many and hard to figure out the most compliant MKV file for XBMC etc !

Dont get me wrong I love DivX & Xvid but I want the higest quality all in one file (Subs, Sound, Menu etc) and HW to play the files...and when scaling them to a HDV screen this looks better than any of the old codecs....

If any body have a god link to a god guide how to convert all my DVD to MKV then please let me know! :thanks:

Updated--- I Guess I have my answer..and now this is off topic since I found out about the 264 codec and the MKV container....So I will post my "What GUI Encoder to use" Question over there

[weaver4]

I agree that H264 is better than Xvid/DivX at the same bitrates. But I have found that XviD/DivX bitrates that are about 25% larger than H264 give about the same result. So I go with DivX for better portability.

The second advantage of DivX is that the decoder will run with much lower processing power than H264. I found that DivX takes about 30% the processing power as H264 when playing back a movie.

Encoding on DivX takes about 1/3 the time as H264.

[Ranguvar]

Decoding, yes, DivX is faster than AVC.

However, it's been proved that if you intelligently adjust settings in x264, any speed in DivX you can match in x264. And the output quality will still usually be considered of higher quality.

As for Xvid/DivX bitrate discrepancy to x264, I really don't understand. Saying the bitrate was higher in Xvid/DivX and it's lower filesize doesn't mean necessarily that it's better. More likely it just didn't end up at that bitrate, assuming we are talking 2-pass.

In common scenarios, IMHO, the only reason to use ASP video vs AVC would be hardware level encoding, compatibility, certain multithreading or other advantage (not saying there is one, I don't know), or less decoding power.

Please don't take this as "OMG x264 rulez teh divx", I'm just trying to clear up a few common misconceptions.

[weaver4]

What I was saying is that if for a specific quality it can be achieved in H264 at a certain bitrate (bps) then Divx can get to (roughly) the same quality by being encoded at 1.25 times that bitrate. So say you get a good quailty H264 encode at 1Mbps then DivX can get (roughly) the same quality at 1.25Mbps (or 25% larger filesize).

But as you said, if the bitrates are equal then H264 is "usually" of "higher quality".

Here is a pretty good site that covers this in a double blind MOS test. http://compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/subjective_codecs_comparison_en.html

[Dark Shikari]

What I was saying is that if for a specific quality it can be achieved in H264 at a certain bitrate (bps) then Divx can get to (roughly) the same quality by being encoded at 1.25 times that bitrate. So say you get a good quailty H264 encode at 1Mbps then DivX can get (roughly) the same quality at 1.25Mbps (or 25% larger filesize).Depends heavily on the source and the bitrate.

I have footage where Xvid/DivX require two or even three times the bitrate to reach the same quality.

On a CIF test of Elephant's Dream, x264 was about 2.21 times better than Xvid at the same bitrate, SSIM-wise. A real torture test I use for comparisons is this video (http://mirror05.x264.nl/Dark/force.php?file=./Touhou_Short.mp4) [raw is 230MB or so, so not posted].

[casperse]

Depends heavily on the source and the bitrate.

I have footage where Xvid/DivX require two or even three times the bitrate to reach the same quality.

On a CIF test of Elephant's Dream, x264 was about 2.21 times better than Xvid at the same bitrate, SSIM-wise. A real torture test I use for comparisons is this video (http://mirror05.x264.nl/Dark/force.php?file=./Touhou_Short.mp4) [raw is 230MB or so, so not posted].

What 264 encoder are you using? and with what program/GUI?

[Dark Shikari]

What 264 encoder are you using? and with what program/GUI?x264, commandline interface.

[casperse]

After reading up on the XBMC limitations with 264 see below:


IMPORTANT XBMC LIMITATIONS WHEN ENCODING : http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/wiki/index.php?title=Supported_File_Formats
This have a big impact if you want to use your XBOX to watch your archieved movies...(There is special filters for 264 that minimize bitrate but the x264 + the ACC Audio does strain the 700Mhz CPU in the XBOX!)
So if you want to keep the DVD resolution when archeiving and be sure to play the movies on your HW/XBOX etc make a MKV container with MPEG-4 ASP (H.263 video like DivX and XviD) and not MPEG-4 AVC (H.264 video like x264)

And reading this very long post...
http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22657&page=7

I am split between Archieving all my DVD in MKV with :
(Criteria: One container + 5.1 and/or 2.0 sound (Different Laungages) & different Subs & in ORG DVD resolution)

1) MPEG-4 AVC (H.264 video like x264) - with ACC or KEEP AC3 5.1)
or
2) MPEG-4 ASP (H.263 video like DivX and XviD) MP3 for 2.0 and for action flics keep AC3 5.1

More HW can now play MKV with 264.....
But there is more HW there can play AVI XVID (XBMC...)
And it would be quicker to encode all my movies but I do love the 264 Quality....AAARGH I cant decide :confused:

[weaver4]

Depends heavily on the source and the bitrate.

I have footage where Xvid/DivX require two or even three times the bitrate to reach the same quality.

On a CIF test of Elephant's Dream, x264 was about 2.21 times better than Xvid at the same bitrate, SSIM-wise. A real torture test I use for comparisons is this video (http://mirror05.x264.nl/Dark/force.php?file=./Touhou_Short.mp4) [raw is 230MB or so, so not posted].

Very interesting comments. I generally I think that DivX with a quantizer of 4.0 is equal to H264 with a quantizer of 21/22. Most of the movies that I have done using this method came out about 25% different but I have had a few that were greater than that and one movie that was much greater than that.

I use the 0:02:30 mark on the movie Transformers to make a comparison. The four guys in the plane talking about aligators meat. This scene has a bunch of cables in the background to check detail and it has some dark spots to check blocking, and the sweat on their faces can be tough for a coder.

When you get to a quantizer of 19 or 20 on X264 it is almost impossible to get that good of a quality out of DivX regardless of how may bits you throw at it. But I never use numbers that good.

[Ranguvar]

Here is a pretty good site that covers this in a double blind MOS test. http://compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/subjective_codecs_comparison_en.html
*shudder*

I've grown to hate that test :p Off-topic, but because they didn't enable Xvid deblocking, consequently Xvid lost big time, and I know many people who reference that :p

As for DivX, is that including quantizer 1? Hmm, possibly due to DivX deblocking filter, try turning it off on encodes that are meant to be transparent, or decrease it.

[Dark Shikari]

*shudder*

I've grown to hate that test :p Off-topic, but because they didn't enable Xvid deblocking, consequently Xvid lost big time, and I know many people who reference that :pYeah, that was completely invalid given that deblocking is not part of the MPEG-4 ASP standard; applying it to one and not the other is stupid.

IMO one should not overly trust compression.ru tests; they're often anything but real-world comparisons.

[casperse]

Popcorn Hour A-100 is a good and cheap alternative to TVIX M-6500A.

Both use Sigma SMP8635.

Popcorn has more frequent firmwares updates to solve problems.

Tvix has problems with subtitles in mkv since 4100 model.

I was looking for the Popcorn Hour in Europe.....And found this other box which also uses the Sigma its listed as EM8621L (and not the SMP8635).

http://www.kjglobal.co.uk/acatalog/MVIX_MX780HD.html

It even have a display and WLAN !!!
Do anybody know if this supports MKV containers? or .DivX?

[Ranguvar]

:search: Google showed it does not play MKVs as of yet.

As for the DIVX container, I don't think so. 99% of DIVX (when I capitalize I mean the container) videos seem to be just renamed AVIs, though... remember the DIVX container is quite the same as OpenDML AVI until you add subtitles or menus. So you could just rename to .avi most likely. Worst case, remux to AVI.

[kristiXS]

After reading up on the XBMC limitations with 264 see below:


IMPORTANT XBMC LIMITATIONS WHEN ENCODING : http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/wiki/index.php?title=Supported_File_Formats
This have a big impact if you want to use your XBOX to watch your archieved movies...(There is special filters for 264 that minimize bitrate but the x264 + the ACC Audio does strain the 700Mhz CPU in the XBOX!)
So if you want to keep the DVD resolution when archeiving and be sure to play the movies on your HW/XBOX etc make a MKV container with MPEG-4 ASP (H.263 video like DivX and XviD) and not MPEG-4 AVC (H.264 video like x264)

And reading this very long post...
http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22657&page=7

I am split between Archieving all my DVD in MKV with :
(Criteria: One container + 5.1 and/or 2.0 sound (Different Laungages) & different Subs & in ORG DVD resolution)

1) MPEG-4 AVC (H.264 video like x264) - with ACC or KEEP AC3 5.1)
or
2) MPEG-4 ASP (H.263 video like DivX and XviD) MP3 for 2.0 and for action flics keep AC3 5.1

More HW can now play MKV with 264.....
But there is more HW there can play AVI XVID (XBMC...)
And it would be quicker to encode all my movies but I do love the 264 Quality....AAARGH I cant decide :confused:

My decisions, when it comes to technology support vs quality:
What is the point in having the movies in the first place? To watch of course. Do you enjoy high quality more? For me thats a definite yes, so I always will choose quality, and eventually technology will catch up (and if it doesnt, oh well, we use what we have to). No standalone player I know of can handle the best x264 quality, regardless of its container...Hence, im playing x264 1080p BluRay rips on my pc, and using a 42 inch Toshiba with a DVI-D to HDMI cable. That for me is the best quality (and avoids having to deal with the protection scheme BS since they are encoded). I would not worry about what standalone can play it now unless its a MUST to play it that way. If you MUST have standalone support, then I would say "go with the flock". Avi now has widestanding support due to divx, and you do not know if mkv will continue to grow or some other format will show up....once there is major support for a format you do know it will most likely continue to be supported however..so if you have to choose hardware over quality, then you definitely want to know its going to be supported in the future. MP4 even has more support than MKV due to Apple's influence, etc.

[casperse]

My decisions, when it comes to technology support vs quality:
What is the point in having the movies in the first place? To watch of course. Do you enjoy high quality more? For me thats a definite yes, so I always will choose quality, and eventually technology will catch up (and if it doesnt, oh well, we use what we have to). No standalone player I know of can handle the best x264 quality, regardless of its container...Hence, im playing x264 1080p BluRay rips on my pc, and using a 42 inch Toshiba with a DVI-D to HDMI cable. That for me is the best quality (and avoids having to deal with the protection scheme BS since they are encoded). I would not worry about what standalone can play it now unless its a MUST to play it that way. If you MUST have standalone support, then I would say "go with the flock". Avi now has widestanding support due to divx, and you do not know if mkv will continue to grow or some other format will show up....once there is major support for a format you do know it will most likely continue to be supported however..so if you have to choose hardware over quality, then you definitely want to know its going to be supported in the future. MP4 even has more support than MKV due to Apple's influence, etc.

Thats a valid point! Thanks for your input.:thanks:
For true HDV material that is a Showstopper!

But for all my DVDs I schould be able to get a 1:1 Quality and keep the resolution, and still be able to play it with some HW.
A DVD is still upscaled to a 1080P screen....

I can see that the DivX container is growing...more players now have the DivX Ultra logo. and nobody knows if MKV will survive.

I just wanted a archieve of all my old DVD´s online for my whole family. So to go for the safe option would be.

--> No container...just AVI with Org 5.1 Sound + a Sub/srt file

* Actually I could include this in a MKV file and extract the files later if MKV dies, or MP4 since all mobile phones use this now or 80% it will also live for a long time.

Actually the container isnt the problem I think there is tools that can convert them if nessesary its the choise of codec x264 or Xvid/DivX.

Its the same with my music...if you want to make sure you never have to encode your music ever again!!, then use Flac! there is many many tools that can update the Flac version to a new one if you want to update the codes version or convert it all to something else, including tags. and no I dont have the space to save my DVDs Lossless = ORG (Have more movies than Music :) )