horizontal bars converting DV content

[jriker1]

I take a VHS tape and import it into my computer using a Canopus ADVC110 device. Any rendering I do into any format, either Sony YUV codec, Lagarith and others, doesn't matter creates a bar on the top and bottom and I think it's scrunched but not sure. The only one it doesn't do that with is DV because it doesn't recompress however it will probably do it if I actually apply any filters to it instead of a straight save.I attached a screen shot in WMP pre-rendered and rendered. You will see the pre-rendered does not have the bars and the rendered does. Any idea why the heck this is happening?

By the way, out of my control, however the saved DV file (initial capture) has a DAR of 1.333 (4:3) in GSpot and the rendered a DAR of 1.500 (3:2).

I've been told to maintain 4:3 I do not need to resize to 640x480 as the parts that do not fit a standard definition TV will just go off the page. Any clude what's going on here?

Thanks.

JR

[JohnnyMalaria]

The attachments are still pending approval so I'm operating blind...

Firstly, you are right, don't change the frame size. However, the information about the TV justing going off the page is wrong. The equipment that converts the digital video (e.g., DV or MPEG) to the analog one will create the right sized image.

You don't mention which software you are using - I'm guessing Vegas. What project settings are you using? It seems that you probably haven't set the aspect ratio properly or you are creating a widescreen project.

[jriker1]

You don't mention which software you are using - I'm guessing Vegas. What project settings are you using? It seems that you probably haven't set the aspect ratio properly or you are creating a widescreen project.

You are correct it is Vegas 8.0b. Hopefully these attachments will be approved soon. Project properties are:

width: 720
Height: 480
Field Order: Lower Field First
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 0.9091 (NTSC DV)
Output Rotation: 0
Frame Rate: 29.970 (NTSC)
Pixel Format: 8-bit
Full Resolution render quality: Best
Motion Blur Type: Gaussian
Deinterlace method: none

Nothig out of the ordinary from what I can see.

There is a checkbox on the render page of "Stretch video to fill output frame size (do not letterbox)". By default it is unchecked. Never like the concept of stretch so don't touch it.

Any clue?

JR

[JohnnyMalaria]

Images worth waiting for! Poor old Ford, just couldn't shake sense into Arthur...

I've made some measurements from your screenshots. Here's the deal:

WMP is using a region 1024 x 768 to display the video.

For the pre-render version, this is exactly the right shape for the 4:3 image to fit perfectly with the correct 4:3 DAR.

In the post-render case, the image is still the full width of the playing region (1024) but WMP is clever enough to know that the video is tagged as 3:2 (for some reason) so it reshapes the video to ensure it looks 3:2.

So, the horizontal bands aren't part of your video but rather WMP making sure the video looks right (according to the DAR in the file).

I'm surprised that the rendered DV is tagged as 3:2.

I would experiment with the stretching option and also try some different aspect ratio options. If I get a chance, I'll see if I can reproduce the problem with DV material in Vegas.

[jriker1]

I'm surprised that the rendered DV is tagged as 3:2.

I would experiment with the stretching option and also try some different aspect ratio options. If I get a chance, I'll see if I can reproduce the problem with DV material in Vegas.

Actually the DV re-rendered is not 3:2 however it may if I force a re-render. Maybe not. Vegas won't re-render it if nothing serious has changed so actually just saves it. I do not want to use a lossy codec. I am re-rendering using the Sony YUV codec as it's a lossless codec. When I use that or Lagarith it exhibits this issue.

JR

[JohnnyMalaria]

I think I know the problem.

As you state, rendering to DV isn't a problem. I've just proved that to myself and I added a video FX to ensure that the video is recompressed. WMP plays it correctly at 4:3.

I then rendered to Sony YUV and got the 3:2 instead. Of course, 3:2 is 720:480 - i.e., the pixel ratio is 1:1. With DV, WMP can go to the DV itself and find out the correct aspect ratio to use, even if the AVI file says something else. With other formats, it uses the information in the AVI header.

If you change the pixel aspect ratio when you go to render (select Custom... then the Video tab), it does change the way Sony YUV AVIs appear. Choosing 1.000 gets you close to 4:3. I'm not sure if it's my WMP but it isn't exactly 4:3.

[jriker1]

If you change the pixel aspect ratio when you go to render (select Custom... then the Video tab), it does change the way Sony YUV AVIs appear. Choosing 1.000 gets you close to 4:3. I'm not sure if it's my WMP but it isn't exactly 4:3.

Won't this cause large bars on the left and right side? Just doing a test right now that hasn't finished, however in the preview window the black bars look very big on both sides. Odd how the DV content fills so much more and any other codec fills things so different. Perhaps the DV codec is non-compliant and the rest are right.

JR

[jriker1]

One other question. Are the bars on the top and bottom truely there or something WMP is putting on there? If I take the rendered file with the 0.9091 Aspect instead of 1.000 and created an MPEG2 file of 4:3 with CCE would it have those bars when playing the resulting DVD?

Thanks.

JR

[JohnnyMalaria]

I'm pretty sure they are gaps deliberately created by WMP.

If you turn off Aero, play a file and drag WMP around the screen you will see a faint purple rectangle. This is the overlay region where the video is placed. Under Aero you don't see it. Turning Aero off causes Windows to regress to the XP way of displaying video.

Alternatively, press PrntScrn then paste the image into a suitable program - you will see the purple rectangle without the video.

The bars in Vegas' preview Window are the result of Vegas simply showing you how the video will look.

If you import any of the rendered files back into Vegas, you should see that they are 720 x 480.