Ending up with a undersized DVD.

[Swatpup]

Hello Doom9,
I'm currently having a problem backing up one of my disc with DVD ReBuilder. After DVD ReBuilder finishes backing up the dvd it is about 1177 MB short of a Full DVD. I am using CCE 2.67 with mostly all default setting except I've set CCETargetSectors to 2259000 which usually gets me between 3mb and 25mb of a full DVD. I'm also using Undot().deen(), ConverttoYUY2() and Mpeg2Source() avs options. The disc I'm trying to backup is the last disc in a series and has runtime of a 1:20 instead of a 1:43 like the other five disc which came out within 25mb of a full dvd. Also I have stripped AC3 and only kept the DTS Track, but I did this for all the disc and the "Remove All DTS Audio" option is disable. I tried it with DVD-ReBuilder Pro 1.26.6 and DVD-ReBuilder freeware .78 Beta both had the same problem. DVD-Shrink reported that it would need 84.6% Compression to fit on a full disc.

The Method I Use:
1)Open DVD with VobBlanker and remove any unwanted extras, trailers...etc
2)Open with DVD Shrink remove unwanted audio tracks and save as iso
3)Mount image with Daemon Tool and convert with DVD-ReBuilder
4)Open with DVD Shrink check size and burn.

CCE Compression:
>94% DVD Shrink
93%<>89% 2 passes
88%<>80% 3 passes - What I used
79%<>70% 4 passes
69%<>60% 5 passes
59%<>50% 6 passes

{Rebuilder.ini}
[Options]
Mode=1
OneClick=1
ReduceOpt=0
NoWarn=1
AdditionalOutput=1
LogFile=1
QuEncHQ=1
EncoderMinimized=1
RemoveDTS=0
HC_Quality=1
HC_Matrix=1
SkinVersion=12
AudioDub=1
QuEncodeType=0
iDCT=0
GOP=0
DCPrec=0
MainMatrix=Encoder Default
LowMatrix=Same as Main Feature
VLowMatrix=Same as Main Feature
ExtraMatrix=Same as Main Feature
ProCoder_Quality=4
DVD_Label=ERGO_PROXY_VOL_06
DVD_Name=ERGO_PROXY_VOL_06.ISO
MovieOnly=0
HalfD1=00
Convert_16_9=00
DisableInterlace=00
ConvertToYUY2=1
CCE=1
Skin=Rebuilder Default
HighMatrix=Same as Main Feature
MedHighMatrix=Same as Main Feature
MedMatrix=Same as Main Feature
ISO_Output=0
ImgBurnWrite=0
AVSFilter01=Undot().Deen()
CCETargetSectors=2259000
Completed=5
[Paths]
QuEnc=C:\Program Files\DVD-ReBuilder PRO\Encoders\QuEnc\QuEnc.exe
ReJig=C:\Program Files\DVD-ReBuilder PRO\Encoders\ReJig\ReJig.exe
HC=C:\Program Files\DVD-ReBuilder PRO\Encoders\HC Encoder\HCbatch.EXE
FFMPEG=C:\Program Files\DVD-ReBuilder PRO\Encoders\FFMpeg\ffmpeg.exe
CMDLINE=C:\Program Files\DVD-ReBuilder PRO\Encoders\CMDLINE\mencoder.bat
ProCoder=C:\Program Files\DVD-ReBuilder PRO\Encoders\EclPro\EclPro.exe
DECOMB=C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Decomb521.dll
NICAUDIO=C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\nicaudio.dll
MPEG2DEC=C:\Program Files\DVD-ReBuilder PRO\DGDecode.dll
Working=D:\MOVIES\ERGO PROXY VOL 06\
Output=D:\MOVIES\-=OUTPUT\ERGO PROXY VOL 06\
CCENew=C:\Program Files\DVD-ReBuilder\CCE\cctsp.exe
Source=I:\VIDEO_TS\
[Audio]
Selected=001
Remapping=
[Subpictures]
Selected=11
[CCEOptions]
CCETargetSectors=2259000
VBR_bias=25
Quality_prec=16
eclPasses=3

{log}
Transcoding...
-----------------
[22:10:02] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- VTS_06: 2,577,366 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 118,205 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 83.1%
- Overall Bitrate : 5,830Kbs
- Space for Video : 3,508,702KB
- HIGH/LOW/AVERAGE Cell Bitrates: 6,003/2,177/5,830 Kbs
[22:13:18] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 3 minutes.
[22:13:18] Phase II ENCODING started
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 2
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 3
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 4
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 5
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 6
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 7
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 8
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 9
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 10
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 11
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 12
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 13
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 14
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 15
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 16
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 17
[01:40:02] Phase II ENCODING completed in 207 minutes.
[01:40:02] Phase III, REBUILD started.
- Copying IFO, BUP, and unaltered files...
- Processing VTS_06
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Rebuilding segment 2 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 3
- Rebuilding segment 3 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 4
- Rebuilding segment 4 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 5
- Rebuilding segment 5 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 6
- Rebuilding segment 6 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 7
- Rebuilding segment 7 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 8
- Rebuilding segment 8 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 9
- Rebuilding segment 9 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 10
- Rebuilding segment 10 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 11
- Rebuilding segment 11 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 12
- Rebuilding segment 12 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 13
- Rebuilding segment 13 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 14
- Rebuilding segment 14 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 15
- Rebuilding segment 15 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 16
- Rebuilding segment 16 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 17
- Rebuilding segment 17 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 18
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_06_0.IFO
Correcting VTS Sectors...
[01:48:46] Phase III, REBUILD completed in 8 minutes.

Done.

BTW. I did search the forum but didn't find anything to resolve the issue I'm having.

Thanks,

[Fishman0919]

Sounds like you are running into encoder saturation.

Ergo Proxy is Animation and with Undot().Deen() to clean it up and smooth in out... Most likely CCE is just running out of room to encode. That few extra min's less on this 1 disc might just be enough to cause it.

[Swatpup]

Thanks Fishman. I'll give it a try without Undot/Deen.

[Swatpup]

That did the trick. So is there no way to use deen/undot when this occurs. Ergo Proxy really doesn't need it, but with older less sharp material it would be a problem.

[blutach]

@swatpup - steps 1, 2 and 3(a) are unnecessary given you are using DVDRB Pro. Certainly, there's no need to make an ISO and mount it. DVDRB works fine on a project folder containing IFOs, BUPs and VOBs. And preprocessing is also discouraged, as this possibly leads to source file corruption.

Regards

[Fishman0919]

That did the trick. So is there no way to use deen/undot when this occurs. Ergo Proxy really doesn't need it, but with older less sharp material it would be a problem.

Basic, CCE is maxing out and giving you it max quality for the settings you have.

Undot().deen() takes away detail so the encoder has less to work with... making it an easier source to encode.

[Sharc]

I just noticed when I select "Movie and Menus only (Blank Extras)" and run the Prepare that the space gained from blanking the Extras is not automatically allocated to the feature. I have to fire up the Segment Viewer/Editor and select "Allocate Saved Space to Feature" in order to fill the disk. Is the manual interaction intentional or a bug? (DVD-RB v1.27.1)

[jdobbs]

I think you're mistaken. When "Movie and Menus" is selected all gained space is reallocated to the feature.

[Sharc]

Hmm .... what puzzled me was the editor indicating an undersize. Deselecting all the blanked Extras - or "Reallocate Saved Space to Feature" brought the bar back to full size. I will doublecheck when the current encode has finished.

[jdobbs]

I'll do some testing. In fact, when you select "Movie and Menus" the segments are actually (invisibly) blanked by the routines in the segment editor. Are you doing bitrate REDISTRIBUTION? Maybe that has an impact??

[jdobbs]

Back to the original topic: There are some "versions" of CCE v2.67 floating around out there that used different ECL values for OPV, VBR, CBR, etc. It's possible are you have one of those... but you mentioned it had worked with others -- so it seems unlikely.

[Sharc]

....... Are you doing bitrate REDISTRIBUTION? Maybe that has an impact??

No, I did an standard prepare without enabling redistribution.
I just redid everything from scratch:
- Mode: Movie and Menus Only (No Extras)
- Always use HC for Redistribution Pass
- Steal Space from Extras 33%
- Half-D1 for Extras

=> Prepare (standard, no redistribution)
=> Editor: All Extras are blanked (as expected), but DVD output size = 4.16GB only

Deselecting all the Extra blanking tickmarks, or doing "Allocate Saved Space to Feature" => DVD Size goes to 4.35 GB, as expected for a full DVD5
(I set the HCTargetSectors=2250000 in the rebuilder.ini)

So it really looks if the saved space is not automatically reallocated to the feature.

[jdobbs]

That makes a difference (MOVIE and MENUS)... the encoder is probably saturated. The reason I didn't catch that to begin with is because the reduction in the post said 83% reduction... apparently you've only posted parts of the log (I just noticed that also). The 83% is the reduction BEFORE THE EXTRAS ARE BLANKED.

There is a limit as to how much an encoder will add in terms of bitrate to improve quality. When it hits "perfection" (or at least the best it can do) it will not add additional bits to the encode, this is called its saturation point -- and you can get undersizing. The plus to that is that you are getting maximum quality from the encoder.

[Sharc]

You are probably mixing up my post with someone else's - I didn't post a log.
Still, in my case the encoder is most likely not saturated. The reduction is 65%, I use the FHE high bitrate matrix and the Q is about 80 which makes encoder saturation very unlikely.
And I get the indication for undersizing right after the Prepare (in the editor), so nothing has been encoded yet.

[Sharc]

ok, I see now.
The .ecl is correct. It's just the Editor which is not updated to reflect the new sizing/bitrate conditions with the Extras blanked. It keeps the values BEFORE the blanking of the Extras.
Never mind.