Strip menus in PGCedit

[meRobs]

Initially I thought that VobBlanker was the obvious choice for removing unwanted stuff when backing up a disc. But, on getting to know PGCedit I realise it is better for blanking or deleting entire Titles and Menus.

It is also more efficient in examining the content of all the PGCs in the Main Menu -- with the Preview open, just select each PGC in turn and use the "`" key to see it play. Excellent! Having done so I would want to delete unwanted menu PGCs, such as those that link to deleted titles, and pages not in English and the audio and subtitle pages (will remove these streams in DVDshrink). Finally, inactivate the buttons that link to these pages, also very easy in PGCedit.

Unfortunately, PGCedit won't do this intermediate step. It cannot delete or blank selected menu PGCs (apart from transitions & warning cells with no buttons, using Trace). I now need to go to VobBlanker to delete these!!

rOlZ: have I missed something?
If not, is it possible to add this feature to PGCedit, which seems to already have the tools for it? It would then nicely complete the process!
Thanks
Robin

[blutach]

Better to killplayback on them and turn them into dummies. Clean up afterwards with VobBlanker or FixVTS.

Regards

[r0lZ]

Yes. Kill playback does 2 things.
1. It copies the post-commands to the pre-command area to ensure that the PGC content cannot be played anymore when it is accessed.
2. It offers to remove the cells (for a menu) or to replace them by a single tiny cell (for a title.) This is similar to a blanking operation in VB, but PgcEdit doesn't remove the original cells from the VOB files. You have to process the domain with Fix or VB to regain the space. See the last paragraph of this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1092947#post1092947) for more info on the post processing by Fix or VB.

Note also that PgcEdit can also kill playback of a menu with buttons (or a title with BOVs.) In this case, you have to select a button, and the killed menu will behave exactly as if you would have selected that button. Read the warning in the last paragraph of this post (http://forum.digital-digest.com/showpost.php?p=553048&postcount=7), as doing so can create infinite loops.

In all cases, killing the playback of a PGC does not make it unreferenced. It is still called, but its content is not played. Therefore, you cannot delete completely the killed PGC, unless you modify yourself the navigation so that it is not called by another PGC any more. Sometimes, hiding the menu button that leads to the killed PGC is sufficient to make it uncalled, so, I suggest you begin by doing so, and try Delete Uncalled (or Info -> Find Uncalled PGCs to verify if it is still called.)

Another very simple trick to get rid of all menus in other languages is to remove completely the LUs containing the unwanted languages. Unfortunately, using a different LU for each language is not used often on commercial DVDs.

[meRobs]

Thanks folks.
I have just tested Kill Playback in PGCedit. It works like a charm. It completely and quickly blanks full title VTSs to 10 kB and goes even further with entire menus - it will delete their VOBs as well (later in FixVTS) if "Remove programs and cells from PGC" is accepted. Simlarly, the main menu VOB is reduced in FixVTS when individual PGCs have their Playback Killed.

And of course button highlights can be removed in the Menu Editor for target titles that have been blanked. Excellent.
Thanks again
Robin

[meRobs]

The Kill PGC Playback process is very quick and convenient when the various popups are deactivated (tick 'Do not show this dialogue again and answer Yes each time').

However, the situation does not appear stable!
Having ticked all popups of the above type for Kill Playback they sometimes (often) return.

How do I force PGCedit to memorise these requests for no popups?

Another question: The Kill Playback icon on the Toolbar, how does it differ from Ctrl-K or Kill PGC Playback?

Thanks
Robin

[r0lZ]

The popups states are stored in a config file. As the other config files of PgcEdit, they are saved in your home. That means that if you log in as a different user, all popups will be visible again.

BTW, you can delete this config file with Options -> User Interface -> Restore All Hidden Dialog Boxes, and you can restore all dialogs during the current session only with Display Hidden Dialog Boxes During Current Session. This second option allows you to untick the Hide This Dialog checkbox if you want to restore some dialogs individually.

Note also that several popups are variable. They have a different text, depending on the situation. You have to disable each variation individually, as some might be more important than others. In some cases, when the variation of a popup shows an error or an important warning, you can't even disable it at all.

Otherwise, as far as I know, the disabled popups are stable.


The toolbar icons are just another way to call the same functions than with the menus or shortcuts. If you don't like it, you can disable it.

However, there is a subtle difference. For an unknown reason, when you use the toolbar and a bug occurs, the internal debugging message is not displayed. Therefore, if you want to help me debug PgcEdit and a function launched via the toolbar hangs or stops without apparent reason, you should always try to launch the same function from the menus to report the bug with some meaningful info.

[meRobs]

Thanks rOlZ, but I was aware of the different dialogue boxes and how to unhide, etc. My concern was in how stable is my set of responses (hide or not, in the Config file)?

There is only one user of my PC and I had for a previous DVD chosen to hide all dialogues for Kill PGC Playback of Titles, Menus and separate menu PGCs, with and without buttons. Despite this the dialogues appeared again the following day!!

If you claim my preferences are stored reliably (stable), then, I must have done something else wrong?? Maybe, I failed to 'Save the DVD' after checking the ''dont show me again" boxes?
I'll try again
Regards
Robin

[r0lZ]

The default answer, used when a dialog is hidden, are, IMO, the best answers, so hiding the dialogs is usually a good thing. However, I leave some of them to confirm some potentially dangerous operations. I have also hidden all dialogs appearing after Kill Playback. Don't worry!

If PgcEdit is abruptly stopped due to a bug, or killed, or if you quit it with File -> Kill, the setups are not saved. Also, I don't remember if the dialogs states are always saved automatically, or only when Options -> Save Setups on Exit is ticked.
Anyway, I haven't noticed any problem with hidden dialogs reappearing when they should not. If you can confirm that that doesn't work for you, please try to reproduce the problem, and let me know. BTW, are you using Vista?

[cyspur]

Hi, if you killplayback them and turn them into dummies, can one get rid of the dummies? Or will they always be there when you open file with pgcedit? Sorry if i am asking something silly.

[r0lZ]

The dummies are still called, and must be present, but they take very few disc space, as they have no audio/video content.

[blutach]

You can get rid of them if you can somehow make them unreferenced.

eg Suppose a PGC (PGCN X) had video content and then went on to another PGC (PGCN Y). After killing playback, X is a dummy with only a Link PGCN Y command.

If you change all references to PGCN X to PGCN Y, X will now be uncalled and can be deleted. The Search and Replace plugin is a very cool and easy way to do this if there are lots of references - setup a search string as 20 .4 .. .. .. .. .. X and replace as the same but with Y as the last byte - do ensure you are only working in the domain which you wish to change X and Y.

Regards

[cyspur]

Thank you very much r0lZ & blutach!

@blutach, I found your guide & i have some researching to do on setting up search strings lol.

[meRobs]

Thanks rOlZ.
I think I must have lost the setups by inadvertently killing PGCedit. All now seems well.
BTW, I am not using Vist.
Regards
Robin

[mikenadia]

Yes. Kill playback does 2 things.
1. It copies the post-commands to the pre-command area to ensure that the PGC content cannot be played anymore when it is accessed.
2. It offers to remove the cells (for a menu) or to replace them by a single tiny cell (for a title.) This is similar to a blanking operation in VB, but PgcEdit doesn't remove the original cells from the VOB files. You have to process the domain with Fix or VB to regain the space. See the last paragraph of this post for more info on the post processing by Fix or VB.
Can I also delete the cell command? (specially when it is a "LinkTail PGC" to get rid of one calling command).
Thanks in advance.

[blutach]

Most times, PgcEdit will do this for you. But, if in the normal course of playback, a cell command is executed before a button is pressed, then it is preserved in the new precommands. But after that, if there is no video left, there is, of course, no need for the cell command.

Regards

[mikenadia]

1) commands for VTSM5 (RootM)
********** pre commands:
********** post commands:
[30 06 00 0A 00 C0 00 00] 1 (JumpSS) Jump to VMGM PGC 10
********** cell commands:
I would like to have VTSM5 as " unreferenced" because VTST 5,1 is the only TTN and it is uncalled.
VTSM5 (RootM) has only one calling command in FP-PGC.
********** pre commands:
[30 06 00 01 05 83 00 00] 1 (JumpSS) Jump to VTSM 5, Root menu (TTN 1)
********** post commands:
********** cell commands:

Can I just replace the command in FP-PGC? Should I be careful if the command in VTSM5 ( or in the PGC containing the calling command) is a pre-post-cell command?

2) Sometimes, I have the same command in " cell" and in "post" ( Jump or LinK) and only 1 command in both sections. Can I delete the "cell" or the " post" command or should I be more careful?

Thanks, r0lZ and blutach.

[r0lZ]

Since this is an useless jump with no changes to GPRMs or SPRMs, you can safely replace the Jump to VTSM 5, Root menu in the FP-PGC by the Jump to VMGM PGC 10.

Note that in this case, there is no drawback, as the visited PGC is a menu PGC. However, when it's a Title, you have to take care of the "resume point". If only one title is accessed before the first menu PGC with video content (or buttons) is reached, it might be necessary to keep the jump (or redirect it to another title), even if the Title is visited but its video content is not played. Otherwise, the resume point will not be defined, and if the nav does a RSM or if the user resumes manually (by pressing a menu button when a menu is playing), the navigation will not know where to go, and most players will crash. (Of course, if there are no RSM command and if there are PUOs to prohibit resuming from the menus, you can ignore this problem. In your case, you can ignore it too, as it is not possible to resume to a menu.)

[r0lZ]

2) Sometimes, I have the same command in " cell" and in "post" ( Jump or LinK) and only 1 command in both sections. Can I delete the "cell" or the " post" command or should I be more careful?I suppose that the command jumps elsewhere.

Again, you can delete the post command if you wish (although there is no advantage in doing that), if the PGC is a menu PGC. (You can also delete the pre-command and leave the post-command, but the video content will be played if the PGC is not a dummy.)

When it's a title, you have to be careful. If it is possible to play the title (for example by resuming to it), you have to leave the post command, or the nav will stop after the playback of the title.

Anyway, you will not regain disc space by removing those commands, so I suggest to leave them in place.

[blutach]

Note if you remove x-refs to menus by playing with the commands, they still may be called by the title. To totally remove them, set relevant PUOs.

Regards