the x264 mess

[gwaitsi]

Frustration is getting the better of me.

I previously used nero recode 2 (which was great from an ease of use) but discovered non of the videos streamed properly to my PS3 (nero recode 3 solved this - but it still has too many issues to be of use).

I then read the encoder reviews and thought right, x264 seems to be the way to go. well, ease of use goes out the window.

I tried AutoMKV, RipBot264, MeGUI and couldn't class any as being easy to use.

all of the files i created with the packaged versions of x264 caused nero showtime player to hang. even if remuxed with yamb.

zoom player plays them but there are shoddy streaks across the screen. and they generally take longer than recode 3 to get less quality.

In summary, why is it so hard to get a simple, user friendly GUI like nero that enables encoding with a good quality at approximately 1.5mbps with aac 5.1, plus chapters, plus subtitles.

until, a package with an ease of use like nero comes along, i don't see anything being widely adopted across the broad range of users. the average guy does not want to spend hours and hours with trial and error to get the best quality. defeats the whole purpose as any money saved on space is lost on time.

Simple GUI requirements for example.
profiles - set and forget: -
- movie, HQ, Lots of motion, compression speed slow
- movie, HQ, Lots of motion, compression speed med
- movie, HQ, Still Images, compression speed slow
- movie, HQ, Still Images, compression speed med

Cropping & Rizing options - with preview like nero

I don't doubt the flexibility of the current GUIs but the average user is not concerned with that, lot alone understand what all the settings dose.

[Brother John]

Designing a user friendly UI in general needs some serious usability expertise which most programmers don’t have. In the freeware/open source world usability experts are rare. And you can’t expect a completely non-profit project to hire one. Then video encoding is a really complex process which means building a usable UI is even harder. So it’s hardly surprising that most UIs have room for improvement.

What you seem to want though is not so much “user friendly” (which can be very complex) but rather “simplified”. And maybe (probably even) most of the free tools are not aimed at Joe Average but rather at people who DO care about the best quality they can get and don’t mind the extra time it takes.

[bkman]

Nero costs money.

MeGui, x264, etc. are free.

If you want a professional GUI, I'd suggest that you hire some programmers.

[nm]

I tried AutoMKV, RipBot264, MeGUI and couldn't class any as being easy to use.
How about Avidemux and Handbrake (although I don't know if its Windows GUI is as good as the OS X one)?

Judging based on screenshots (http://handbrake.fr/?article=screenshots), Handbrake looks pretty nice and friendly to me.

all of the files i created with the packaged versions of x264 caused nero showtime player to hang. even if remuxed with yamb.
Sounds like a bug in Showtime.

zoom player plays them but there are shoddy streaks across the screen. and they generally take longer than recode 3 to get less quality.
What kind of streaks? Maybe you didn't use an IVTC or deinterlacing filter. The better GUI's should detect this automatically though... Or do you mean blocking/banding?

[buzzqw]

feel free to try AutoMen, should be easy enough

BHH

[Dark Shikari]

Nero is a "user-friendly GUI"? Its a horrible mess, and I'd rather use Staxrip, Ripbot264, AutoMKV, MeGUI, or Handbrake any day of the week.

Plus, its output quality is atrocious.

[audyovydeo]

Although I use x264 via DOS batches, I must admit the original poster has a point.
If x/H.264 is going to be around 5 years from now, it's got to battle against the usual enemy :

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/download.aspx?key=encoder
http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/default_ns.aspx

I suggest reading MS Expression's FAQ for a lesson in product positioning.

We all *know* H.264 is superior to VC1, but how many are *we*, and how many people read MSU's report vs how many download Microsoft's bloatware ?

Technical superiority alone does not win markets, glitzy packaging does.

cheers
audyovydeo


(corollary : cmdline programs win *enthusiasts* ...)

[Sagekilla]

I find it very hard to consider the WME (now expression apparently) GUI to be any better than most of the x264 GUIs.

Too much clutter all over the place and too many tabs for that matter. StaxRip does a better job than it, imbo.

[Avenger007]

Simple GUI requirements for example.
profiles - set and forget: -
- movie, HQ, Lots of motion, compression speed slow
- movie, HQ, Lots of motion, compression speed med
- movie, HQ, Still Images, compression speed slow
- movie, HQ, Still Images, compression speed med

Cropping & Rizing options - with preview like nero


Maybe this might help w.r.t "set and forget":
MeGUI Custom x264/AVC video profiles http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=101813
You don't even need to click the Config button, just use the bitrate calculator for a particular file size or bitrate and then click AutoEncode (after loading the AviSynth script and audio file of course).

MeGUI also has a preview for Cropping and Resizing when creating the AviSynth script.

Other than speed and quality, compatibility is also an issue to consider when encoding for PS3.

Happy encoding :)

[gwaitsi]

Nero is a "user-friendly GUI"? Its a horrible mess, and I'd rather use Staxrip, Ripbot264, AutoMKV, MeGUI, or Handbrake any day of the week.

Plus, its output quality is atrocious.

I guess it is a perception thing....cause that is why i paid for nero. i felt recode 2 was simple and just works without any d.cking around. Recode 3 i think is even better but of course is not perfect.

As far as quality is concerned...That is subjective. If i compare a good quality DivX against a good quality Nero on my HD PC screen..sure i notice the difference. if i view them on my standard TV played through my PS3 or through my mp4/divx capable h/w player, can't tell the difference.

in view of the comments, i tried again handbrake and ripbot264 because i think i got the de-interlacing wrong. they are still encoding and it has been the whole night.

with over 150dvds in my collection, it is not worth the time to convert them at that rate.

So in summary, back to my original point. If i can't stick it in and it just works, then there ain't much use it being a better quality and that is where nero presently excels.

[check]

Please also don't forget, these GUIs are mainly created for enthusiasts. I don't mean home theatre enthusiasts, I mean people who enjoy tweaking and twiddling the knobs on their programs, and who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty.

To be sure, there are some 'one click' options around, such as MeGUI's one, but most of the people on this site are simply not interested in them (compare the activity of the gordian knot forum with the MPEG-4 AVC forum). If you are after a higher level tool, look around for a lower level forum ;-)

[DarkZell666]

To be sure, there are some 'one click' options around, such as MeGUI's one, but most of the people on this site are simply not interested in them (compare the activity of the gordian knot forum with the MPEG-4 AVC forum). If you are after a higher level tool, look around for a lower level forum ;-)
I haven't extensively used either, but I'd rather say the activity around MeGUI is rather like "I can't get this to work", wereas the lack of activity around GK and AGK is rather like "no news is good news" imho ;)

[NWDaniels91]

Back when I first started encoding DVDs to XviD, I used AutoGK. Then after reading some more about digital video, I tried to figure out how to do a few custom options (like using a different de-interlacing method), I learned enough so AutoGK seemed too limited in its options, so I started using GordianKnot. I kept learning (slowly), and eventually it seemed strange to me to even assume that DGIndex or the AviSynth generator were doing exactly what I wanted. After needing to edit the AviSynth script directly to get the desired results a few times, I got to the point where I wanted to do everything pretty much manually. Especially since GordianKnot doesn't really do H.264, that meant using MeGUI. MeGUI came fairly easy to me since I understood what most of the options meant. It's sort of a GUI for doing everything manually, if that makes sense.

So for me, there was a gradual progression to using MeGUI as I read and learned about digital video. I guess we all start as noobs, and I would recommend that you read a little until you can get MeGUI to do what you want (there is still a lot that I don't know, but I feel good at the level I've reached). I guess that's why there's no good GUI that's really simple: the people who know enough to write the programs have learned that having lots of custom options is important.

(Also, I like the frequent updates to the x264 encoder. It's updated much more often than Nero's (at least to the public), and I like feeling like I'm on the cutting edge.)

[odditory]

Frustration is getting the better of me.

I previously used nero recode 2 (which was great from an ease of use) but discovered non of the videos streamed properly to my PS3 (nero recode 3 solved this - but it still has too many issues to be of use).

I then read the encoder reviews and thought right, x264 seems to be the way to go. well, ease of use goes out the window.

I tried AutoMKV, RipBot264, MeGUI and couldn't class any as being easy to use.

<snip>

I feel the same way you do, I just don't state the opinion very often because it often meets with flames from veterans of the x264 opensource scene, since they often (mistakenly) take it as negative criticism. Ever since 2005 when the idea of H.264 really grabbed my attention, I've checked back on this forum every few months just to see if things had evolved past the point of buggy GUI's that utilize a hodge-podge of other tools through scripts/batches that are prone to breaking. There are just too many variables to try and gain proficiency in all of them - and definitely more art to it than science. Bottom line is with such a decentralized approach to it with so many people working on different parts of a 'system', you get a rubber band ball rather than a single solid rubber ball.

I do see the point of the newbie-unfriendly (or just time-unfriendly) x264 CLI tools and GUI's and the people that love them: these people are passionate about it because they have total control of every parameter not to mention have a lot of time invested (and perhaps even emotion), and being able to discuss and dissect the hairs of every command line parameter is not much different than Wine zealots discussing grape seed genetics and ideal soil moisture levels, or a car enthusiast insisting that a toothbrush gives him more control to getting his car 5% more shiny than with a rag.

In other words, I often get the sense that many in the opensource x264 scene revel in the complexity of it all, just for the *sake* of the complexity, when it comes to the usage of the different tools and how they interact with one another.

As well, the tired old argument "but opensource is FREEEEE!" always comes up in these discussions, and I always think "who cares?" because that argument misses the point: a lot of people *are* willing to PAY for something that can hit a good ratio of performance and ease of use. In other words, some of us feel that saving $50 by using free software is NOT worth the lost time in trial & error and learning curve.

Nero actually DOES produce decent results despite what others will say (but the GUI is buggy/bloat like all Nero crap), and the only other one I've tried is Mainconcept Reference: it's buggy but excellent interface produces decent results that I'm still trying to fine-tune to match x264 results, since its ability to handle a large number of batch encodes without intermediary files is great.

Good luck!

[odditory]

<snip>
(Also, I like the frequent updates to the x264 encoder. It's updated much more often than Nero's (at least to the public), and I like feeling like I'm on the cutting edge.)

I like frequent updates too, but you never know if an update equals a step forward or a step back - history has proven it can sometimes be the latter. That means you have to follow all the discussions of each build to find out if you should even use it. Once again, attractive for some, but a time-drain for others.

[Dark Shikari]

In other words, I often get the sense that many in the opensource x264 scene revel in the complexity of it all, just for the *sake* of the complexity when it comes to the usage of the different tools and how they interact with one another.Its almost as if there weren't idiot-proof one-click GUIs out there for x264 with even fewer options than Nero! ;)

Hell, I even made one that was literally "select input, select output, select quality, select speed." Four options.

[Atak_Snajpera]

Hell, I even made one that was literally "select input, select output, select quality, select speed." Four options.

Nice but how you ensure that your file will be compatible with AVCHD , PSP , IPOD and so on. Life is not that simple...

[Dark Shikari]

Nice but how you ensure that your file will be compatible with AVCHD , PSP , IPOD and so on. Life is not that simple...It was for computer-targeted encoding.

For AVCHD/similar encoding, you add a fifth option: "target device" :p

Literally you need three real options for any "simple" encoder--nothing more:

1. Quality / Filesize: allow someone to pick either a particular quality or a particular filesize.

2. Speed: a slider that automatically chooses encoding commandlines.

3. Target: Sets the profile and DPB/bitrate/level parameters.

[Atak_Snajpera]

yeah and then another and another... and another :)

all of the files i created with the packaged versions of x264 caused nero showtime player to hang. even if remuxed with yamb.

Blame Nero not us :)

Simple GUI requirements for example.
profiles - set and forget: -
- movie, HQ, Lots of motion, compression speed slow
- movie, HQ, Lots of motion, compression speed med
- movie, HQ, Still Images, compression speed slow
- movie, HQ, Still Images, compression speed med

This reminds me old years when we were playing with DivX3.11 Low/High motion :)

[fields_g]

Literally you need three real options for any "simple" encoder--nothing more:

1. Quality / Filesize: allow someone to pick either a particular quality or a particular filesize.
2. Speed: a slider that automatically chooses encoding commandlines.
3. Target: Sets the profile and DPB/bitrate/level parameters.

Exactly.... Look at it this way... When we judge the results of our encoding parameters, we look at these categories. The optimal GUI is one that takes our WANTS as inputs and optimally sets all the encoder parameters and filters. But there are obvious reasons this isn't always easy to develop. Source Material, codec/filter changes (improvements, hopefully), and personal tastes come to mind.

This leaves room for two different types of GUIs, "Sir-Tweaks-a-Lot's Super option filled GUI" and the "Just-do-it-DAMMIT cookie cutter GUI". The latter is applicable to many more people in general, but probably not the choice of many enthusiasts on this forum. Don't use one and expect the other.

[Sagekilla]

Indeed, you hit the nail on the head.. Personally I think if you're really obsessed with getting the best quality, the best way to go is with CLI. If you just want ease of use to stick your videos across various devices and don't mind having slightly lower quality, (due to less prefiltering, and moderate settings) then I think a GUI, like the one Dark Shikari described, would be better to use.

Yes, I realize I'm making things black and white here. But the beauty of open source projects like x264 and all the related goodies is there's so many different offerings! Still, that could be problematic for the user who just wants to store movies on his computer and not fiddle around with intricacies.

[gwaitsi]

well FYI all,

thinking that i missed something the first round - given i read something about de-interlacing and the video produced in my test seem not to have been deinterlaced i.e. horizontal streaks accross when frame changes.

so last night i tried with handbrake and ripbot AGAIN. double checking de-interlacing settings again.

it's not difficult. i am using Proof of Life for my test 2.15hr at 1.5mbps it should produce a file around 1.6Gb/s.
Using nero recode 2 i established that 1.5mbps when played back through a standard Pal TV is about as low as i want to go. I could n't notice any difference between 2mbps and 1.5mbps.

so, i encoded again last night ripbot produced a 1.5Gb file in mp4. doesn't have the sttreaks like last time but it is blocky like DivX when encoded for single CD size. Doesn't play in showtime.
--- i know, blame nero

handbrake also encoded to about 1.6Gb in mv4 format (and it does play in nero showtime). shows avc level as 5.1. has the horizontal streaks i.e. doesn't seem to have been deinterlaced.

same time, i used recode 3 again - even with its current bugs. used encoding precision set to extra. sorry to beat and old drum, but she just works....

give me a way of turning a standard 4.7Gb DVD to x264 with the ability to manually crop with a quality that puts the DVD down to 1.5Gb +/- prefer to maintain a constant quality where the is no noticable difference when play back on a standard TV.

I'll be happy. I am even happy to use foobar and do the audio conversions separately + yamb to remux.

you ask so why don't i use recode 3 then. because
- it doesn't have constant quality and f.cks-up on the 2nd pass with the audio/video for some which waistes my time
- the bit rate gradually drops off with high precision set
- it converts .srt to vobsub

you ask why i don't use recode 2 - which i had already converted a lot of movies.....
- they don't play on PS3 when streamed via tversity. recode 3 does.

in summary,
i use AAC-HE 128k for the audio - nero
i need to manually crop but not resize
it should handle interlacing basedon the variety of dvds in my collection
batch encoding with individual settings nice but not essential
video i want to set and forget with a quality equiv to approx 1.5mbps (that play when streamed through tversity)

surely, one of you guys can give me some specific settings to wake into one of these gui's to achieve the above if it is so easy?

maybe there is the challenge for you. Can you get a novice producing top quality stuff with some basic instruction?

[gwaitsi]

ok, i am satisfied a probable component is a user problem.
i just used the trial of mainconcept reference and have the same problems.

so: my video is
- 720x480 NTSC (black bars top and bottom)
- pixel shape is (4:3) 10:11
- interlaced
- 29.97fps

after crop
- 704x268

my screen is 1650 x 1050

In nero, i don't resize. (i did the same in x264 and mainconcept)

the encoded video from recode scales correctly when viewed full screen from any player.

the encoded video from x264 and mainconcept has blocked and clearly is not scaled correctly when viewed full screen.

what i am doing wrong? Solve this and i may be able to make a better assessment on usability :-)

[Dark Shikari]

so: my video is
- 720x480 NTSC (black bars top and bottom)
- pixel shape is (4:3) 10:11
- interlaced
- 29.97fpsAre you sure the video isn't telecined, not interlaced?

[Stingrey]

Are you really using 128kB HE-AAC ?
For that bitrate you should use the LC profile, or bether just do a one-pass vbr encode and only change the -q rate (let the encoder select the best profile) using neroaacenc with foobar.

[Atak_Snajpera]

Are you really using 128kB HE-AAC ?

128 LC sounds more natural than 128 HE. However 64 HE is wining with 64 LC. So tip for you use 128 LC or 64 HE.

[Dark Shikari]

128 LC sounds more natural than 128 HE. However 64 HE is wining with 64 LC. So tip for you use 128 LC or 64 HE.Or just let the encoder decide ;)

[gwaitsi]

Are you sure the video isn't telecined, not interlaced?

Dark, i believe it might be. I can't remember which gui - i think MeGUI. had a test for determining the interlaced and the summary was telecined. actually reported a mixture of interlacing with the % of frame for each and the summary was telecined.

Nero/Mainconcept simply report as interlaced.

Others, i am not concerned about the audio. I use LC 192kbs 2pass for audio and HE 128kbs 2pass for movies. produced in foobar2000 or recode.

The issue i seem to have is with x264 and mainconcept and the resizing after cropping. no one has provided an answer to that which leaves with with recode as it is the only one i can get to crop the video yet allows the player to resize to full screen with normal looking output.

[talen9]

The issue i seem to have is with x264 and mainconcept and the resizing after cropping. no one has provided an answer to that which leaves with with recode as it is the only one i can get to crop the video yet allows the player to resize to full screen with normal looking output.

I'n not sure I understand correctly what you mean; anyway, in MeGUI, try "Clever (TM) anamorphic encoding" in the "AviSynth script creator" wizard ;)

[gwaitsi]

I'n not sure I understand correctly what you mean; anyway, in MeGUI, try "Clever (TM) anamorphic encoding" in the "AviSynth script creator" wizard ;)

it is difficult to explain. Firstly i thought the video was not de-interlacing but that is not the problem.

- i crop video to 704 x 268
- i do not resize video

resulting file when viewed in a window on pc is ok. but when switching to full screen is unevenlly stretched and has blocks in the video.

this does not happen with the nero recode outputs.

obviously i am doing something wrong with the settings.

[fields_g]

What player software are you using?

[gwaitsi]

What player software are you using?

doesn't matter.
i tried nero showtime, zoom player and windows media player. they all do the same thing.

nero recode files play perfectly in full screen mode with all players.

when i try to encode with any x264 gui or mainconcept i get the problems described above.

So back to my original whinge. if i can even get the basic encoding functioning happening (not even talking about tweaking), then it must be all too complicated and that is why non-standard proprietry software will prevalue over this open source staff. because is too complicated for the average jo.

sh.t, i'm glad i didn't pay the rediculous money for mediaconcept. so far i have more luck with a 50eur piece of software than with free or expensive software.

[nurbs]

You have to tell the encoder what aspect ratio the material is. In MeGUI you have to check the "clever anamorphic encoding" box in the avs-script creator.

[odditory]

<snip>
sh.t, i'm glad i didn't pay the rediculous money for mediaconcept. so far i have more luck with a 50eur piece of software than with free or expensive software.

You have to admit Mainconcept Reference has a nice GUI though - its still the best GUI for H.264 encoding and batch handling that I've seen. If someone ever comes close to that GUI and it employed x264.exe, then I'd be all over it - that really would be the best of both worlds to me.

For the record I don't have weird aspect ratio issues during playback after cropping in Mainconcept or Handbrake.

Nero Recode 3 doesn't really do batch encoding (that I can tell), so it's out of the running for me.

[odditory]

By the way, how often are you really going to be cropping? Every movie? If its just a one-time or occasional thing, i wouldn't be basing my choice on encoder to standardize on, based on which one handles aspect ratio correctly after a crop.

[Avenger007]

so: my video is
- 720x480 NTSC (black bars top and bottom)
- pixel shape is (4:3) 10:11
- interlaced
- 29.97fps

after crop
- 704x268

my screen is 1650 x 1050

In nero, i don't resize. (i did the same in x264 and mainconcept)

the encoded video from recode scales correctly when viewed full screen from any player.

the encoded video from x264 and mainconcept has blocked and clearly is not scaled correctly when viewed full screen.

what i am doing wrong? Solve this and i may be able to make a better assessment on usability :-)
For "pixel shape is (4:3) 10:11", in MeGUI click Config->Zones and type "--sar 10:11" without quotes in Custom Commandline Options.

MeGUI is THE GUI for encoding with x264, end of story. :devil:

[Stingrey]

Others, i am not concerned about the audio. I use LC 192kbs 2pass for audio and HE 128kbs 2pass for movies. produced in foobar2000 or recode.

Watching a Movie is only fun when the audio is good too!
Use VBR one-pass with foobar und you will get a faster and bether result!
look here:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=44310

[gwaitsi]

Watching a Movie is only fun when the audio is good too!
Use VBR one-pass with foobar und you will get a faster and bether result!
look here:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=44310

Stingrey, i may have miss lead a little. i actually use LC q .55 which approximates to 200kbs for my audio.

all my movies done with recode 2 use nero's inbuilt encoder with the default settings which is HE for recode 2 and LC for recode 3.

I only use foobar->nero for DTS audio or, sometimes when recode cracks the sh.ts with a movie's audio.

My problems are purely with video. i tried again mainconcept last night and still can't get a decent f.cking picture from it after croping. i will try avenger's recommend with MeGUI on the weekend.

But i can already see what will happen. by the time i ever get this sh.t working, recode 3 will have fixed their current bugs and i will end up continuing to use recode having spent bloody hours trying to get a decent encode from x264 and mainconcept.

at least mainconcept lets you do a small sample, so i can try different configs much easier.

[check]

avisynth also lets you test small samples: selectrangeevery(), or trim()

[gwaitsi]

i'm giving up!

I managed to get StaxRip to produce a decent quality encode but without cropping. Mainconcept is not producing a decent file and MeGUI just ain't happening! It crashes when getting to the profile import file during the update and can't get it to do anything re encoding.

Here are two short theatrical trailers 1 PAL and 1 NTSC
http://www.dvdloc8.com/dolbydtsclip.php?clipid=10
http://www.dvdloc8.com/dolbydtsclip.php?clipid=1

Both of the above encode perfectly in recode 2/3 with cropping and no resize. playback fullscreen on mt 1650x1050 is perfect.
i use 1.56m/bps 2pass for my encodes in recode 3

I challenge anyone to show me an encode that has been cropped and not resized that is better than nero. If you can do it, then please provide the settings and app used to do it and i maybe convinced if i can duplicate ;-)

[check]

http://www.dvdloc8.com/dolbydtsclip.php?clipid=10

Now I'm convinced the reason for your suboptimal results are lack of knowledge on your part. These two video are not interlaced, they are telecined. You don't process these with a deinterlacer, you process these with an InVerse TeleCine tool.
Here are the steps I did:

Install Avisynth 2.5.7 from avisynth.org
Install MeGUI from x264.nl
Change MeGUI update servers from stable to development
Download all updates in MeGUI
Use d2v creator in MeGUI to create a d2v index from the vob
Use the avisynth script creator to create an avs script from the d2v. Manually tell the creator that the video is telecined because it's too short for the automatic detection to work with.
Encode with x264, HQ-Slow preset, automated two pass, bitrate 1500.

This gives you an encode of brilliant quality. You can in fact encode this file with a bitrate of 500 and they will still be using too much bitrate.

[gwaitsi]

hey check, cool - thanks.

I will give this a bash and see how i go.

Obviously, recode can automatically identify (which is my setting) and take the correct action but how can i tell if it is interlaced or telecined with megui/mainconcept?

Am i better to use constant Q rather than 2 pass, if i want a general setting that will produce excellent video indepent of size? what is the best Q setting to use as a general rule to achieve excellent quality? How can you tell what is the best bit rate to use to maintain quality without overkill as you mentioned above?

Thanks for taking the time...

[check]

how can i tell if it is interlaced or telecined with megui/mainconcept?
Open the raw source in a media player that does no post processing, and step through frame by frame.
Progressive has no combing, Interlaced is all combed (although be aware this combing is less visible in low motion scenes), and Telecined content is a mix of interlaced and progressive frames (ratio 3:2).
Content that is a hybrid of some or all of the above frame types exists, but it's reasonably rare if you deal with normal western hollywood DVDs.

Am i better to use constant Q rather than 2 pass, if i want a general setting that will produce excellent video indepent of size?This is the perfect use case for using constant quality, rather than constant bitrate.

what is the best Q setting to use as a general rule to achieve excellent quality?As a general rule with x264, use CRF (Constant RateFactor/Constant Quality) instead of CQ/QP (Constant Quantizer), and values between 16-26. The lower the value, the closer the input will be to the output. The number does not have to be an integer. The same value will give different perceptual quality for different sources. What value range you use depends on your visual requirements and your display, don't just pick one value based on anothers' recommendation.
How can you tell what is the best bit rate to use to maintain quality without overkill as you mentioned above?Varies depending on the source. Generally if you end up with quantizers under 16, it's a waste of bits, and over 26 is too low quality. Excessively low quality is easy to spot, but Excessively high quality can be harder. Remember the cost of too high bitrate is just output size.

[Jay Bee]

Seems to me posting one of the encoded files that don't work would make a lot more sense than trying to describe the problem over 3 pages.

[nm]

Obviously, recode can automatically identify (which is my setting) and take the correct action but how can i tell if it is interlaced or telecined with megui/mainconcept?
Could you upload somewhere an encode of the NTSC Dolby sequence made with Recode 3? I'd like to see if it really did IVTC and not just deinterlaced the video (which will show up as wrong framerate and slight jerkyness/blurring on playback).

[gwaitsi]

Could you upload somewhere an encode of the NTSC Dolby sequence made with Recode 3? I'd like to see if it really did IVTC and not just deinterlaced the video (which will show up as wrong framerate and slight jerkyness/blurring on playback).

Here is the link
http://www.tempfiles.net/download/200802/2741/DolbyCanyon_Recode3_AVC_AAC_LC_5.html

Movies definately come out in the same quality whether NTSC or PAL and interlaced, telecine or progressive.

[gwaitsi]

thanks to all who have contributed to getting me up and running.

I decided to remove one part of the equation and have been working with PAL progressive source and managed to get some decent encodes.

What have a found with my test encode of Fight Club - PAL DVD.

- I encoded with PS3-Xbox profile (except changed to crf - q18)
- can't tell visualy the difference between x264 crf q18 and recode 3 2pass 1.5mbps
- x264 takes 3hrs and recode 3 takes 2hrs
- physical size is about the same 1.7Gb (60Mg difference)
- recode 3 ND AVC profiles streams through TVersity to PS3 no problems
- x264 stutters with streaming through TVersity to PS3

In summary,
- i can't say either is better because x264 and recode 3 both look the same on my 1650x1050 display (full screen) and on SDTV
- recode 3 is much quicker
- recode 3 is requires much less work

Having said all of the above, i tested demuxing the nero video and remuxing with yamb.....PS3 doesn't stream without stuttering.
So it may not be x264 which is the problem but the muxing phase which is the problem.

both type play when copied directly to the PS3

[Dark Shikari]

- can't tell visualy the difference between x264 crf q18 and recode 3 2pass 1.5mbps
- x264 takes 3hrs and recode 3 takes 2hrsSo why not use faster x264 settings? :rolleyes:

[nm]

Here is the link
http://www.tempfiles.net/download/200802/2741/DolbyCanyon_Recode3_AVC_AAC_LC_5.html
I have a problem downloading it. Seems to be an empty file.

[gwaitsi]

So why not use faster x264 settings? :rolleyes:

I tried q16, 17, 18, 19 samples and concluded 18 was the highest i could go without a noticable difference in quality.

i.e. at 19 you could see blocks in the dark colours.

i suppose i could try to 2pass 1.5mbps to make a more like for like comparison but in view of the other issues with streaming to the PS3 doesn't seem much point.

At this stage i can not fully test the x264 video because the mp4 wont stream properly. So until kurtnoise fixes/changes so i can remux a known good mp4 and have the remuxed version work the same, then i can't tell the difference.