Strange sync problem on DVD-rip

[Buggle]

I recently bought my girlfriend the first season of Grey's Anatomy on DVD (PAL version, Netherlands), which I am trying to encode to Xvid . The DVD is heavily protected but rippable with AnyDVD and DVD Decrypter.

However, I am left with strange sync problems on the episodes, which seem to lay in the VOBS themselves. The problem is that there are a few black frames in the beginning that should not be there; because of that the video begins later than the audio, but not in every scenario.

It is, in fact, an error in the VOB
First proof: audio and subtitles are in sync
Second proof: Nero Showtime plays the DVD out of sync (as described above; it shows a relatively long black piece in the beginning, the audio starting before the actual picture appears)
Playing the DVD in MediaPlayerClassic (I installed the CCCP codec pack, after that the newest ffdshow) does not give me the sync problem; the black piece is virtually not there and audio starts at the same time the picture can be seen.

Field order transition detected
When I create my d2v project, it tells me that there is a field order transition detected. Not following the advice of letting DGindex change the d2v gives me a perfect looking sharp progressive image. Letting DGIndex change the d2v according to the advice gives an image that looks like extremely interlaced material, not even near to what a normal interlaced DVD would look like. The resulting encode (using Fiel Deinterlace (decomb)) is very blurry and is just as much out of sync as the un'corrected' one.

Working the source
At first I tried to encode directly from ripped source. Source could be played in Showtime, but DVDShrink refused to open it. Sync problems were already there. Then I let FixVTS run on it; no succes either, Showtime still showed it out of sync. I opened it in DVD Shrink, to my surprise it showed the video perfectly in sync in the previewwindow! So I recoded the source with Shrink (of course without compression). Now we are back at the top of this post; showtime still out of sync, media player classic able to play fine.


Can anybody tell by this rather long discription what might be the problem and what I could do about it? (besides correcting the video with a delay in matroska)

[setarip_old]

Hi!It is, in fact, an error in the VOBDoes it play properly synched on a standalone DVD player?

[Buggle]

Hi!Does it play properly synched on a standalone DVD player?

I do not have a standalone player, I can only use my computer for this...

[setarip_old]

Until and unless you can play the DVD(s) on a standalone player, you'll have no way of knowing WITH CERTAINTY where the problem lies.For all you know at this point, your computer could be the cause of the problem...I recently bought my girlfriend the first season of Grey's Anatomy on DVDSo, doesn't your girlfriend have a standalone player?

[Buggle]

Until and unless you can play the DVD(s) on a standalone player, you'll have no way of knowing WITH CERTAINTY where the problem lies.For all you know at this point, your computer could be the cause of the problem...So, doesn't your girlfriend have a standalone player?

Nope, we're the laptop generation ;)

But I think, the original DVD cannot be compared to its ripped counterpart, because of all of the structure protections and so on.

When different programs (with of course different filters, different ways of readin the vobs) give different results I think it can easily be said that one is able to handle the corrupt vobs better than the other. Just like comparing IE and Opera on bad-CSS handling or so. Problem lays within the source, Nero and DGIndex are struggling, Shrink and MPC (Nvidia Purevideo decoder) play fine or relatively fine.

By the way, after some careful reviewing, the MPC solution is a tiny bit out of sync as well, but very hard to tell if it is positive or negative.

Edit: There is another thing I noticed: the total playing time fluctuates wildly in the beginning when playing MPC.

[setarip_old]

I am left with strange sync problems on the episodes, which seem to lay in the VOBS themselves.Problem lays within the sourcePlease clarify - Are you referring to the ORIGINAL DVD(s) as "the source", or are you referring to hard drive rip(s) of the DVD(s) as "the source"?

[Buggle]

Please clarify - Are you referring to the ORIGINAL DVD(s) as "the source", or are you referring to hard drive rip(s) of the DVD(s) as "the source"?

w00ps, sorry. I am referring to the ripped one as the source. Now, I put that much effort in my post to keep it readable, still I make such an error. argh. The original DVD is out of the picture now :) locked in the closet for being bad :rolleyes:

[Buggle]

The funny thing is, there are some extras on the DVD that have no sync problems whatsoever. They didn't even have and give any problems when I encoded them straight from the source.

Edit: keep finding out new things, trusting someone can at some point say 'ahaaa' and tell me whats wrong :). I ran the ripped, fixed and shrinked DVD through VOBblanker, fixing always pointers, and now the playback stutters really bad when I start playing the file (in Showtime). If I let it play, then rewind to a point earlier, the stutter is gone and everything plays totally fine, in sync. To me that looks like some offset or so is wrong at the beginning, and the video is desperately trying to keep in sync. Does that make sense?

[dialysis1]

The original DVD is out of the picture now locked in the closet for being bad

You might want take the orginal out of the closet and try playing it.

[r0lZ]

The problem is that there are a few black frames in the beginning that should not be there; because of that the video begins later than the audio, but not in every scenario.The key is here. Simply remove that blank cells. If the ripped DVD can be loaded in PgcEdit, remove the tiny cells and then run FixVTS on the main movie VTS, and use Shrink in re-author mode to recode the movie alone. That should be sufficient. However, you might have to fix the VM commands of the main movie if you want to play the ripped DVD itself.

[Buggle]

The key is here. Simply remove that blank cells. If the ripped DVD can be loaded in PgcEdit, remove the tiny cells and then run FixVTS on the main movie VTS, and use Shrink in re-author mode to recode the movie alone. That should be sufficient. However, you might have to fix the VM commands of the main movie if you want to play the ripped DVD itself.

Yes, I thought something like that as well. Using PgcDemux, I demuxed all streams. The chapter file gives me chapters at 18 and 24 frames. Seemed strange to me.
Thanks for the hint, I'll try to work with Pgcedit.

[Buggle]

Opening the vobs in PGCedit gives an error that the NAV pack identifiers are not found (for all of the four episodes on the dvd, the extras do not give this error).

Have been trying to figure out how this program works, it's kind of hard with all these abbreviations...

Would it be helpful if I posted a log file of some sort?

Edit#3: found out how to do a mock strip. Hope this solves the error.

[r0lZ]

Don't worry about the Nav Packs error. If you can load the DVD and see it in the GUI, it's not a problem.

Double-click on the PGCs of the first episode, and locate the protected tiny cells at the beginning of the PGC. Click on the "Remove Cells" button. Untick the Keep Programs in Sync option, and use Remove Cell Range to delete all tiny cells. Repeat for all episodes, if necessary, and save the DVD. Then use FixVTS to remove the cells from the VOB files.

I doubt that a mock strip will help, but you can try anyway.

[Buggle]

The first episode now runs fine, thanks to the clues you gave me. I am still having some problems playing the others directly in Showtime (playing the vobs leaves me with no audio, and opening the IFO files makes the dvd start from the menu), but they open fine in DVD Shrink. I am now recoding it to include only the eps and the extras, hope to get some good results.

[r0lZ]

In Shrink, skip the first few seconds (normally black) of each episodes, just to be sure that it removes the crap!

[Buggle]

In Shrink, skip the first few seconds (normally black) of each episodes, just to be sure that it removes the crap!

Forgot to give feedback. All episodes play back fine now. I just had a question; PGCEdit asked me to rebuild the time maps. I did not allow it to and it seems to be working fine, but should I have done this?

Also, looking at the PGCedit window, where I removed the cells, their VOB/Cell ID was different. they were 2/1 and 3/1, whereas the true episode was 6/1 to 6/7. However, at the end there is one with ID 7/1. Should I remove that one, since it appears to not be part of the episode?

[r0lZ]

Yes, rebuilding the time maps is a good thing to do, as they are often wrong in the ARccOS or RipGuard protected titles. With a wrong time map, you cannot seek to a specific duration in the movie accurately. When you remove some cells, the time map has to be rebuilt anyway. Of course, since that table is in the IFO, if you encode to XviD, you don't need it.

If you have removed some cells, their VOB IDs are removed, and FixVTS (and probably also Shrink) reorganize the following VOB IDs to fill the gaps. That's normal.

Usually, the last tiny cell is intentional and is not protected. The presence of an additional chapter at the end of the movie allows you to skip to the end of the movie with the Next Chapter button. That's OK. But I have just ripped recently a DVD where that last cell was protected. In this case, it is better to remove it, or to replace it with a new one. Again, for an XviD encode, that doesn't matter much.